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Litofsky
12-05-2008, 05:18 PM
To inject some intelligence into the forums once more, let us explore and discuss the following statement:

'Laziness is the bane, and yet, the epitome of Humanity.'

vanir
12-05-2008, 05:40 PM
Hmm, sounds suspiciously like a school project, Litofsky :)

I wonder if there aren't simple physical laws to which psychology is subject. Conservation of energy, the wont to go slower, take it easier, preserve individual resources.
It is a bane where one seeks to move forward or create an establishment and yet demands resources from somewhere other than themselves.

Daddy I want a car.
Knowledgeable people are just acting smart.
Why don't I have the same opportunities as others?
I wish other people would do my homework for me ;)

Once you've done the efforts required you can just sit back and reap some rewards. Lazy people want to go straight to that part. And here's a problem, we went ahead and made economic, political and socio-political aristocracies. So according to Newsweekly, just buy this product and indeed you can sit back, chide others and be a Hollywood movie star.
Celebrity stakes have become big business, so record companies concoct the next superstar teen-girl next door, with some destitute busker's song they stole the rights to for $12.50 and this modern take on successful capitalism really isn't helping any.

Rev7
12-05-2008, 06:11 PM
'Laziness is the bane, and yet, the epitome of Humanity.'
Laziness is a 'bad thing', but it is so common in humanity. It isn't even funny. That is what I get from it.

People just want others to do things for them, or just sit back and let things around them crumble. I believe that is the reason why there is a great deal of poverty in the United States.

Litofsky
12-05-2008, 06:35 PM
Hmm, sounds suspiciously like a school project, Litofsky :)
Not in the slightest. I was pondering why some people would lie, and its results, relatively recently. If I had a class that asked a question like this, I would be ecstatic.

I wonder if there aren't simple physical laws to which psychology is subject. Conservation of energy, the wont to go slower, take it easier, preserve individual resources.
It is a bane where one seeks to move forward or create an establishment and yet demands resources from somewhere other than themselves. Interesting. I meant laziness is the bane by which everything falls: societies have fallen because people would rather take the easy way out, as opposed to sitting down and working.

Once you've done the efforts required you can just sit back and reap some rewards. Lazy people want to go straight to that part. And here's a problem, we went ahead and made economic, political and socio-political aristocracies. So according to Newsweekly, just buy this product and indeed you can sit back, chide others and be a Hollywood movie star.
This would be a definite problem in (our) society. The easy, cheap way out is always preferred to the one that costs more.


Laziness is a 'bad thing', but it is so common in humanity. It isn't even funny. That is what I get from it.
Not always, but in most cases, laziness has lead to events further 'down the road' that could've been prevent if someone took the initiative earlier. An example would be an engineer hiring the cheaper workers or materials, and then having the construction being faulty, requiring repair in the future.

People just want others to do things for them, or just sit back and let things around them crumble. I believe that is the reason why there is a great deal of poverty in the United States.
To an extent, I would agree, but only to an extent. Innate laziness, coupled with our society's current attitude (as in, "I want this now." An example, not necessarily negative, would be the Internet and its near-instantaneous reception, etc) are near-fatal.

Rev7
12-05-2008, 06:46 PM
To an extent, I would agree, but only to an extent. Innate laziness, coupled with our society's current attitude (as in, "I want this now." An example, not necessarily negative, would be the Internet and its near-instantaneous reception, etc) are near-fatal.
I agree with that. I'm sure that you know that it is hard to get the right words formed...I definately agree.

Web Rider
12-05-2008, 06:50 PM
Laziness is a term that has been overused by America, and abstractly applied to all times when you aren't trying to kill yourself with work, generally by people who buy expensive champagne and aren't killing themselves with work.

Yes, people can be lazy, but people generally aren't lazy for most of the things people are calling them lazy for. When I sit at home on saturday and debate politics with you guys, am I being lazy? That depends on what you definition of "lazy" is, and I don't mean strictly the dictionary.

I could be lazy to an inventor, who doesn't work a job much but spends all his time developing new and crazy ideas, I could be lazy to a business man, who spends all his time in corporate meetings, but he could as well consider said inventor lazy. I could be lazy to my professors because I'm not working on some kind of homework or studying.

The "easy way" is not always the bad way, and it is too often misconstrued as such. I can nail two plants of wood together with a hammer which I made myself, and a nail I made myself, and wood I cut from a tree myself, it's very hard, and the end result is the same as if I bought 2 pieces of wood from a store, along with a nail-gun and some nails for it. Is the latter easier? Of course it is. But being easier than an astoundingly hard way to do it does not make it inherently lazy, as all "lazy" is is an abstract assignment of devaluation by somebody who does the same thing or something else they consider to be harder, in a more complicated manner.

Litofsky
12-05-2008, 07:09 PM
Yes, people can be lazy, but people generally aren't lazy for most of the things people are calling them lazy for. When I sit at home on saturday and debate politics with you guys, am I being lazy? That depends on what you definition of "lazy" is, and I don't mean strictly the dictionary.
Most opinions are derived from one's definition of the debated issue. Again, in this thread, I meant laziness "in the sense that people take the easiest way out in a situation, unless otherwise acted upon."

EDIT: However, that is a personal definition, and a person's definition of "lazy" is highly variable.

vanir
12-05-2008, 07:13 PM
The smartest way is often an easier way...unless you widen the scope a little and understand the work behind developing the smarts to make an easier way.

So no, an easier way is definitely not always a bad way, however an easier way isn't really easier, if you take all things into account. It just looks easier if you've only just approached the situation.

Take for example:
When I sit at home on saturday and debate politics with you guys, am I being lazy?
It depends entirely upon whether or not you have knowledge to impart, or are prepared to garner information to exchange. You could just waft in and wave your arms without the slightest idea of anything genuine to say, just to go through some motions of seeming authoritive. This would be the lazy way of trying to establish a reputation among others, instead of having one based upon visible character.

It is actions upon which people are judged, ultimately others observe your actions, demeanour and so forth. Your words they will discuss, they will even acquiesce, but when it comes to which example they would follow, most often it will be those whom they respect. One whose character is visible at a given forum.

Lazy people do get their just deserts: little empowerment. However they do tend to cause quite a bit of extra work for everyone else, for no good reason and little achieved.



(edit) uh-oh. Sorry, when I say something like this with somebody's quote I should make clear, it was a valid and important perspective you were bringing up Web Rider, hence my addressing it directly. I don't think you're lazy.

Web Rider
12-05-2008, 07:17 PM
Perhaps so, but I meant "laziness" in the sense that people take the easiest way out in a situation, unless otherwise acted upon.
This was not clarified at any point prior to my post, therefore, so no, that is not what you meant.

Most opinions are derived from one's definition of the debated issue. Again, in this thread, I meant laziness "in the sense that people take the easiest way out in a situation, unless otherwise acted upon."
Again, if this is what you meant, I suspect you either failed to imbue with the psychic-powers necessary to deduce this from your topic statement of "here's a quote: discuss", or you did not say what you mean.

Again, not the sense I meant "lazy" in. :)
Then for future reference: try to say what you mean.

If I seem upset, it's because I am. If you don't say what you mean, how can I be expected to understand what you mean to say?

Addendum: you took the easy way out, IMO, a "lazy" way, of only putting down the minimum of what was necessary, and therefore, caused exactly what you were thinking about, a failure, in this case: to communicate, based on a person: you, being lazy.

Lazy people do get their just deserts: little empowerment. However they do tend to cause quite a bit of extra work for everyone else, for no good reason and little achieved.
That is exactly how I feel about this topic right now.

Litofsky
12-05-2008, 07:23 PM
This was not clarified at any point prior to my post, therefore, so no, that is not what you meant.
No, it was never specified.

If I seem upset, it's because I am. If you don't say what you mean, how can I be expected to understand what you mean to say?
You cannot, and perhaps my previous post was unnecessary. I should have said, "My definition of 'lazy,' etc." as opposed to saying "The definition I meant, etc." My sincerest apologies, Web.

Addendum: you took the easy way out, IMO, a "lazy" way, of only putting down the minimum of what was necessary, and therefore, caused exactly what you were thinking about, a failure, in this case: to communicate, based on a person: you, being lazy.
So I did, thereby inciting further discussion! Beautiful, is it not?

vanir
12-05-2008, 07:28 PM
That is exactly how I feel about this topic right now.

I don't know. I have been frustrated at what I consider the laziness of some, say a supervisor at work, putting me through fifty hoops to save themselves having to go through just one.
I appreciate the topic and its relevence. I'd like to develop further handling capabilities of this concern. It would help me at work.

Jae Onasi
12-05-2008, 07:34 PM
An object at rest tends to stay at rest.

Litofsky
12-05-2008, 07:49 PM
That is exactly how I feel about this topic right now.

Then you have my utmost apologies, Web. I merely intended to instigate intelligent discussion, and ended up provoking insults.

...at least, my opinion of your comments was that they were unnecessarily course.

This was not clarified at any point prior to my post, therefore, so no, that is not what you meant.
This comment makes me blood boil as mine made yours, Web. The assumption that you just made was one of the Human attitude: 'I have no proof, but I'll go with this because it fits.' You said that is "not what (I) meant," but in reality, one could not infer my meaning or not. Therefore, your post was based on an assumption, and is not fully true.

vanir
12-05-2008, 08:08 PM
An object at rest tends to stay at rest.

Actually the subject of a little pet theory of mine, that time dilation is the root cause of gravitational effect. But I'm still learning tensors.

Rev7
12-05-2008, 08:35 PM
An object at rest tends to stay at rest.
Nice definition. :lol:

Ya, ones definition of 'lazy' greatly matters. I personally think that lazy is not doing the things that they should do, such as--picking up the newspapers on there driveway after them being there for 2 weeks. Always taking the easiest route, and being idle. Greatly affects ones view...

Darth Avlectus
12-13-2008, 05:40 AM
An object at rest tends to stay at rest.
ROFL I thought you'd chime in with something like that.

Well...I suppose it is a bit subjective.

Without dragging this down too much, one deplorable example are people who claim children they don't have (or that don't exist) to get more wellfare.

A warm meomrable example is my rat, Junior of a few years ago who mangaed to escape my house to the outside and I could never catch him for awhile. I had a mostly wolf dog who constantly was trying to eat him on top of other predators, cats, coyotes, and inhospitable weather.

LAZINESS: When I finally got him back he was SOOOO lazy that I could leave the cage doors open. He wouldn't move if he didn't have to and didn't want to. The only things motivating him: Girls, strange objects to carry off into his cage, and unusual food. He stole a half a chicken burrito out of my hand unawares, and cleared 5 ft of distance, and got into his cage in less than 2 seconds.

Otherwise he'd give me that "go space yourself" look (for lack of a better term).

Tommycat
12-13-2008, 07:21 AM
I tend to say that inherrantly people are lazy to some extent. In an evaluation one time I said to my boss, "I'm lazy. I don't like to work hard. That's why I come up with ingenious scripts that make our job easier. I make them right so that I don't have to later support them. I make the scripts neat so I don't have to spend my time trying to figure out where on earth I need to change to get it working with new parameters." I ended up getting a pay raise.

Laziness doesn't have to be looked at as a bad thing. I think most people automatically assume that lazy is laziness and apathy. You can be lazy and dedicated. You don't like to work hard, but you will do what is necessary to make your job easier. Laziness in some form can be attributed to most of our inventions.

EnderWiggin
12-13-2008, 06:32 PM
I tend to say that inherrantly people are lazy to some extent. In an evaluation one time I said to my boss, "I'm lazy. I don't like to work hard. That's why I come up with ingenious scripts that make our job easier. I make them right so that I don't have to later support them. I make the scripts neat so I don't have to spend my time trying to figure out where on earth I need to change to get it working with new parameters." I ended up getting a pay raise.

Laziness doesn't have to be looked at as a bad thing. I think most people automatically assume that lazy is laziness and apathy. You can be lazy and dedicated. You don't like to work hard, but you will do what is necessary to make your job easier. Laziness in some form can be attributed to most of our inventions.

When people tell me I'm lazy, I disagree for the same reasons you stated.

I think that people like us are 'efficient' and not lazy.

_EW_

Tommycat
12-14-2008, 05:07 AM
Haha well I say I'm lazy. Besides when you tell your boss that, they usually ask, "So why are you working?"

To which I respond, "I work because I have to. I work here because I enjoy it."

Earns many brownie points.

jonathan7
12-14-2008, 08:29 AM
Depends what I'm doing as to if I'm Lazy or not, though laziness isn't always always a bad thing. Take football (soccer) as an example. I often conserve energy in the first half of games - meaning when everyone else is getting tired in the second half, I can take advantage of it. Also being a flair player means, I'm not always involved in the game, but 9 times out of 10, I'll be the one to do the decisive thing in a game, but either scoring or setting someone up (any team I play for hasn't lost a game in 7 months :p). I have funnily enough noticed that no-one seems to complain about laziness when a) your winning matches b) your scoring lots of goals - funny correlation, no?

Darth Avlectus
12-21-2008, 09:35 PM
When people tell me I'm lazy, I disagree for the same reasons you stated.

I think that people like us are 'efficient' and not lazy.

_EW_

Hey, so long as you have SOMETHING to make up for lack of action. Efficiency is good, but it's even better if you are *effective* with it.

OR creative.

I like your thinking, big guy.

Depends what I'm doing as to if I'm Lazy or not, though laziness isn't always always a bad thing. Take football (soccer) as an example. I often conserve energy in the first half of games - meaning when everyone else is getting tired in the second half, I can take advantage of it. Also being a flair player means, I'm not always involved in the game, but 9 times out of 10, I'll be the one to do the decisive thing in a game, but either scoring or setting someone up (any team I play for hasn't lost a game in 7 months :p). I have funnily enough noticed that no-one seems to complain about laziness when a) your winning matches b) your scoring lots of goals - funny correlation, no?


Funny indeed. :)

I believe the conservation to which you reference followed by selective use of energy could also be a form of rope-a-dope.


Actually, when I ref some soccer games I notice that. Star players do that. (Are you a star player?) Unfortunately I cannot openly praise one team during a game without praising the other due to how political being a ref can be.

Unfortunately, though conservation is wise, I don't always have that luxury. But I DO have one way as a sideline flag man ref to discourage "off sides" and it does a great job both in its intended purpose as well as saving energy when either the brain or the body is tired. Coaches can't debate it either!
In fact it really screws up their "push" strategy.

No such effectiveness methods have yet been devised for 8th DAN kendo mastery though (or at least that the masters could/would give out so easily). I'm not talking the sport stuff I have done in years past: I'm talking the real shebang in japan. UGH!