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Astor
02-13-2009, 08:22 AM
Full Story (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Alfie-Patten-13-Year-Old-Boy-From-Eastbourne-Becomes-A-Father/Article/200902215222421?lpos=UK_News_First_Home_Article_Te aser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15222421_Alfie_Patten%3A_13-Year-Old_Boy_From_Eastbourne_Becomes_A_Father)

Well, i'm sure everyone in the UK has heard about this. I have to say I was shocked by this story - I really didn't think that things were this bad regarding sex education and awareness.

What is perhaps even more shocking, is that the parents of both children involved seem to think it's a perfectly normal occurence for a 12 and 15 year old:

He could have shrugged his shoulders and sat at home on his Playstation. But he has been at the hospital every day.

There's no way on Earth either of them could fully understand the implications of having a child, and it's doubtful that the boy knew exactly what he was getting into.

Now it seems that they've both cut their childhood short for something most people in their 20s would think twice about doing.

Thoughts?

Jae Onasi
02-13-2009, 10:20 AM
Kids who are sexually active at this young of an age have a significant probability of having been abused themselves. There's far more to this story, most likely, than appears here.

jonathan7
02-13-2009, 10:26 AM
Depressing news, the kids clearly have issues, and furthermore, I think they should be taken into care as their parents are clearly incapable of doing a proper job!

Pho3nix
02-13-2009, 10:28 AM
I feel sorry for the child. But Alfie gets +1 bonus points for his awesome name.

Samnmax221
02-13-2009, 10:50 AM
Chav's.

EnderWiggin
02-13-2009, 03:39 PM
Holy hell. This is absurd.

_EW_

Web Rider
02-13-2009, 04:03 PM
Man, I didn't really believe the teen sex/pregnancy problem in the UK was that bad when people told me about it, but man that's just messed up.

jrrtoken
02-13-2009, 04:50 PM
Chav's.Obviously. Damn those white people and their hip-hop.

Sabretooth
02-13-2009, 10:33 PM
TBH, I'm not "shocked" per se, amused, perhaps. Teenage pregnancies happen all the time, as do pre-teenage pregnancies, probably not in the UK though, but you'll see them all around Africa.

Don't see why everyone's getting so shocked about the boy's proclamation that he will take care of the baby. It's not like he's living out on the streets of a foreign country now, he'll do fine: he has his parents and his erm, the baby's mom. There was no other option after she got pregnant, and hence his perfectly cool reaction that he'll take care of the kid and they'll raise him. Does the boy have issues? I'll say that he won't be humping anyone anytime soon, neither will the mom.

Though I can imagine how freaked out that baby will be when it learns its dad was 13 when he had sex with his 15 year old mom.

Q
02-13-2009, 10:40 PM
I'll say that he won't be humping anyone anytime soon, neither will the mom.
Or they'll be going at it like rabbits whenever they get the chance.

Litofsky
02-14-2009, 12:48 AM
Wow. That was laughable. My favorite part of the article was, "Alfie said he, 'thought it would be good to have a baby' and [that he would] 'take care of it.'"

Don't see why everyone's getting so shocked about the boy's proclamation that he will take care of the baby. It's not like he's living out on the streets of a foreign country now, he'll do fine: he has his parents and his erm, the baby's mom.
I disagree, Sabre. Though he may live with his parent's, the father is still a child, and not yet even in high school/college (not great points in one's life to have children, I think, but the points in this case are used as markers)! The point being is that he is neither physically or mentally mature enough in order to take care of a child, in my opinion, and nor should he attempt to.

Sabretooth
02-14-2009, 02:13 AM
I disagree, Sabre. Though he may live with his parent's, the father is still a child, and not yet even in high school/college (not great points in one's life to have children, I think, but the points in this case are used as markers)! The point being is that he is neither physically or mentally mature enough in order to take care of a child, in my opinion, and nor should he attempt to.
I mean it's not that he's all alone in this, his parents and the girl's parents will take care of the baby as well, in fact, I think they'll take care of the baby primarily.

What I'm saying is that his statements now are just disaster management: that the baby's been born, and he will be taken care of, there's nothing else that you can do.

EnderWiggin
02-14-2009, 03:07 AM
When the kid starts kindergarten his father will be a senior in high school :(

_EW_

Astor
02-15-2009, 12:28 PM
It gets worse. Today's papers are filled with the story that the father of the child could be one of up to eight similarly aged boys.

I'll try and the story, but it's just shocking.

Marius Fett
02-15-2009, 01:03 PM
This is ridiculous. This kid is almost three years younger than me. I know that right now, at my age I could never hope to be a competent father, so I doubt Alfie will either.

The baby will end up being raised by her grandparents I think, as a 13 year old boy, and a 16 year old girl are far too young.

Underage sex is a big issue here in the UK, (most likely in other places too) and a better sex education program is definitely needed. Most kids these days just get info from their mates, which is usually unreliable.

A 12 year old boy may not, but a 15 year old girl should have had the sense to use protection, as she almost definitely knew the risks of unprotected sex.

Chav's.

:lol:

TriggerGod
02-15-2009, 02:45 PM
When the kid starts kindergarten his father will be a senior in high school :(

_EW_

it might get a little wierd when the dad brings his report card back to his son.

Jason Skywalker
02-15-2009, 04:50 PM
Words cannot express the weirdness of this situation. The kid looks like a 9-year old, when i'm actually only one year older than him. :hurk:

Litofsky
02-15-2009, 05:04 PM
I mean it's not that he's all alone in this, his parents and the girl's parents will take care of the baby as well, in fact, I think they'll take care of the baby primarily.

Indeed. However, I was criticizing the child's saying that he would take good care of it. Apologies for misreading your earlier statement.

What I'm saying is that his statements now are just disaster management: that the baby's been born, and he will be taken care of, there's nothing else that you can do.

That's completely true. I have a feeling, however, that many will use this as a point to increase sex education, and other relating programs. Everything has its uses, I suppose.

Adavardes
02-15-2009, 06:12 PM
The point being is that he is neither physically or mentally mature enough in order to take care of a child, in my opinion, and nor should he attempt to.

This isn't entirely true. While I agree that this is ridiculous, and this much responsibility should by no means fall to someone so young (it is the literal end of your individual life to have a child as a teenager), that doesn't mean that he may not be able to meet the challenge. Everyone has varying levels of maturity at varying ages, and while I have no idea what kind of person this kid is, he might have what it takes to take care of a child at his age. My mother was 9 years old, and taking care of her 5 younger sisters, from newborn to 5 years old, because her older sister was married and gone, and her mother was a lush, leaving only her elderly grandmother who couldn't keep up with that many kids by herself. She was literally their mother for most of her childhood, simply because she had to be.

Attaching maturity and responsibility to age just doesn't work. I know a lot of people that are 20-30 years of age that aren't mature or responsible enough to take care of a goldfish, let alone a child. If he wants to give it a shot, while I think it is awful that he has to decide such a thing, he's stuck in the rut, so let him try. The probability is against him for having the needed character to do it, but we simply don't know for certain whether or not he does.

Darth Avlectus
02-15-2009, 06:18 PM
WHAT THE F***?!

THAT is just messed up wrong. It doesn't get too much more messed up than that. --To think I knew peers who would actually joke about this very thing.

Quite sobering.


Well, i'm sure everyone in the UK has heard about this. I have to say I was shocked by this story - I really didn't think that things were this bad regarding sex education and awareness.

What is perhaps even more shocking, is that the parents of both children involved seem to think it's a perfectly normal occurence for a 12 and 15 year old:

There's no way on Earth either of them could fully understand the implications of having a child, and it's doubtful that the boy knew exactly what he was getting into.

Now it seems that they've both cut their childhood short for something most people in their 20s would think twice about doing.

Thoughts?

That is some F***ed up BULL****.

What is obvious here is failure on all fronts on all levels. Not the least of which are the parents (EDIT: of the teen parents) as evidenced by their sentiment on the issue.


At the very least I believe this to be either a case resulting from sexual abuse or negligence...probably a combination of the two.

Kids who are sexually active at this young of an age have a significant probability of having been abused themselves. There's far more to this story, most likely, than appears here.

I most definitely agree with you on this, Jae.

Holy hell. This is absurd.

_EW_

You sure said it, man.

TBH, I'm not "shocked" per se, amused, perhaps. Teenage pregnancies happen all the time, as do pre-teenage pregnancies, probably not in the UK though, but you'll see them all around Africa.

Don't see why everyone's getting so shocked about the boy's proclamation that he will take care of the baby. It's not like he's living out on the streets of a foreign country now, he'll do fine: he has his parents and his erm, the baby's mom. There was no other option after she got pregnant, and hence his perfectly cool reaction that he'll take care of the kid and they'll raise him. Does the boy have issues? I'll say that he won't be humping anyone anytime soon, neither will the mom.

Though I can imagine how freaked out that baby will be when it learns its dad was 13 when he had sex with his 15 year old mom.

Just because this is a natural/regular occurrence amongst animals does not mean it is right for humans. Even in poorer continents. Oh sure I understand why it happens, but still. This is not right.

Or they'll be going at it like rabbits whenever they get the chance.

Oy.


It gets worse. Today's papers are filled with the story that the father of the child could be one of up to eight similarly aged boys.

I'll try and the story, but it's just shocking.

No $***? This just keeps getting better and better.


Words cannot express the weirdness of this situation. The kid looks like a 9-year old, when i'm actually only one year older than him. :hurk:

Wierdness doesn't even begin to describe this...Faux Pas is a more adequate starting point I'd say--and even that doesn't do it justice.

What next, bears chugging cheap vodka on street corners and lighting joints in our hot tubs while we're gone?!:confused:

Oh wait that is already happening sort of. I guess this world is on its way to hell in a handbasket.

Rev7
02-16-2009, 02:04 AM
Geez

Kids these days :(

adamqd
02-16-2009, 07:01 AM
It's in the paper this morning that he wants a DNA test. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't his kid, the mother is 15 and although young has probably had other Partners. I'd be surprised if this boy really knows if he even finished the job for lack of a better phrase.

Darth Avlectus
02-16-2009, 06:18 PM
It's in the paper this morning that he wants a DNA test. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't his kid, the mother is 15 and although young has probably had other Partners. I'd be surprised if this boy really knows if he even finished the job for lack of a better phrase.

Quoted for emphasis and truth. Good point as well adamqd. Now that I'm over the initial shock, that is a piece that doesn't add up about this whole thing. :confused::confused::confused:

...Jae, you are a doctor, so then, what expertise have you on this matter?

Web Rider
02-17-2009, 02:40 AM
It's in the paper this morning that he wants a DNA test. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't his kid, the mother is 15 and although young has probably had other Partners. I'd be surprised if this boy really knows if he even finished the job for lack of a better phrase.

Still, even if he has no idea what he's getting into, good on him for not running away at the chance to not be a dad. He stuck his doodle in her hoo-ha and babies are a consequence of that. Whether or not he's prepared, at least he's manning up to it. It'd rather he do that than act like a twat and not accept responsibility.

Mav
02-17-2009, 03:38 AM
When the kid starts kindergarten his father will be a senior in high school :(

_EW_If the kid turns out to be a genius maybe she could help her daddy with his homework... Anyway I'll just forward this link of Lynk's (http://www.twilightlynk.com/forums/t4/6/#post4134).... here (http://kotaku.com/5154088/i-know-im-young-but-i-plan-to-be-a-good-dad)

(yes that's 2 separate links)

adamqd
02-17-2009, 06:50 AM
Still, even if he has no idea what he's getting into, good on him for not running away at the chance to not be a dad. He stuck his doodle in her hoo-ha and babies are a consequence of that. Whether or not he's prepared, at least he's manning up to it. It'd rather he do that than act like a twat and not accept responsibility.

I meant more Biologically than "Knowing his way around a chassis". Not everyone is able to procreate at 13

Astor
02-17-2009, 07:29 AM
I meant more Biologically than "Knowing his way around a chassis". Not everyone is able to procreate at 13

Actually, a Human male is capable of creating children from around the age of 6 upwards. But a 6 year old is not mentally mature enough to understand what they're doing.

Pho3nix
02-17-2009, 07:47 AM
Actually, a Human male is capable of creating children from around the age of 6 upwards. But a 6 year old is not mentally mature enough to understand what they're doing.
How?

adamqd
02-17-2009, 07:50 AM
Actually, a Human male is capable of creating children from around the age of 6 upwards. But a 6 year old is not mentally mature enough to understand what they're doing.

So every 6 year can create a child? I'm pretty sure I couldnt **** at 6

Astor
02-17-2009, 08:04 AM
How?

I don't understand all that well myself, but 6 years of age is a figure that i've seen used in some studies. But, from what I gather, it's an incredibly rare occurance - 10 years of age is more likely.

Salzella
02-17-2009, 11:10 AM
That's Sussex for you. eh, EH?

Ztalker
02-17-2009, 12:21 PM
Kids who are sexually active at this young of an age have a significant probability of having been abused themselves. There's far more to this story, most likely, than appears here.

Not necessarily. I recently watched a tv doc about 'ghetto' culture in my own country. Where children of 9 would have sex in a garagebox so that they would become part of 'the group.' And the girls thought it was normal...

Just pointing out that this...behaviour is (sadly) not that unseen.

If I even look at my 'own' class, I see children of different sexes play more freely with each other then when I was a kid myself. Blame MTV, blame whatever, it's just fact and the story of this kid proves it....

Sabretooth
02-17-2009, 12:32 PM
Ztalker is right, as a professional teenager, I can attest that there are many times when you 'feel it' and the only way to cure that feeling is to 'do it', but since there is no proper companion, you're forced to play it solitaire. I'm sure that had I had a companion at that age, I could have had a lot of fun. Just saying.

/high-fives sabre of the past

//no progress yet, sabre of the past, i'm still working on it

Drunkside
02-17-2009, 01:05 PM
If ye ask me, the officials seem to be overreacting. So two kids younger than me got a kid? Whats the big deal? Yep its weird, really weird but not such a horrible news as the story you get to through the link makes it look.

Astor
02-17-2009, 01:09 PM
If ye ask me, the officials seem to be overreacting. So two kids younger than me got a kid? Whats the big deal? Yep its weird, really weird but not such a horrible news as the story you get to through the link makes it look.

The deal is that it should never have occured, had the Schools in East Sussex taught adequate sexual education classes.

That, and the parents of the 12 year old should have known better than to let him stay overnight with his 15 year old girlfriend.

Ztalker
02-17-2009, 01:43 PM
The deal is that it should never have occured, had the Schools in East Sussex taught adequate sexual education classes.

That, and the parents of the 12 year old should have known better than to let him stay overnight with his 15 year old girlfriend.

Maybe. I received proper (more than proper actually) sexual eduction, but it's not 'holy' in some cases. My girlfriend told me the pill only has 98% chance of doing it's supposed job.
So...even WITH proper education, there are still circumstances in which it isn't enough. I actually know a girl who thought she was pregnant after returning from the hospital (painkillers negates the effect of the pill). She wasn't, but it still supports my point.

I do however fully agree with your second statement regarding the parental control. Like Sabre said, the 'feeling' is always there. When the kids are lying next to one other, it's quit inevitable. Talking from experience when I say sleeping next to a girl you love is...exciting.

Mav
02-17-2009, 06:35 PM
Ztalker is right, as a professional teenager, I can attest that there are many times when you 'feel it' and the only way to cure that feeling is to 'do it', but since there is no proper companion, you're forced to play it solitaire. I'm sure that had I had a companion at that age, I could have had a lot of fun. Just saying.

/high-fives sabre of the past

//no progress yet, sabre of the past, i'm still working on it
:rofl:

Darth Avlectus
02-18-2009, 12:26 AM
Still, even if he has no idea what he's getting into, good on him for not running away at the chance to not be a dad.

Yes the responsibility of his character is admirable. Especially considering there are adults here who don't even take responsibility.

He stuck his doodle in her hoo-ha and babies are a consequence of that. There *could* be exceptions here. Still, I have my doubts now as to whether or not he really is the father... I am no expert (Jae, some doctor's expertise here would be nice), however...if the naughty happened when the boy was 12...don't you think he might still (to put it nicely) have been a little undeveloped yet to "finish" the job??? There could be exceptions, but if that kid really is the father...frankly he barely comes across as 13 now...

Whether or not he's prepared, at least he's manning up to it. It'd rather he do that than act like a twat and not accept responsibility.
True that.

CommanderQ
02-18-2009, 01:06 AM
Oy, this kid was definately too young for that, young even for the unfortunate modern day situation. This problem is not exactly unusual, it seems to be happening everywhere, as Ztalker said, it is not (sadly) entirely unseen. There were probably a number of obvious problems with this situation. Still, feelings like what he had are in every person, it's just a matter of controlling these feelings to the right time, 13 is undeniably too young, but not everyone has absolute power over these feelings{not sure anyone does}.

Web Rider
02-18-2009, 03:17 AM
There *could* be exceptions here. Still, I have my doubts now as to whether or not he really is the father... I am no expert (Jae, some doctor's expertise here would be nice), however...if the naughty happened when the boy was 12...don't you think he might still (to put it nicely) have been a little undeveloped yet to "finish" the job??? There could be exceptions, but if that kid really is the father...frankly he barely comes across as 13 now...

Studies have shown that girls are developing younger and younger, with a fair correlation to the chemicals in our food. It's not surprising that there would be an effect on boys as well. I remember I could "finish" the job when I was 12. Really, human maturation rates are excessively slow in comparason to any animal in the world. We're treating younger and younger people with more responsibilities and more pressure, and I think that's adding to their younger development.

Darth Avlectus
02-18-2009, 04:56 AM
This problem is not exactly unusual, it seems to be happening everywhere, as Ztalker said, it is not (sadly) entirely unseen.
True enough, my friend.

So what is being done about it? Sure stuff happens but I mean, come on, seriously. We may be animals of a sort, however we will not die if depriving ourselves of it I would think.

I would hope we'd know better in general. We are a self aware sentient species, are we not?

There were probably a number of obvious problems with this situation. Ya think? I'm surprised their Jerry Springer equivalent isn't all over this...

Still, feelings like what he had are in every person, it's just a matter of controlling these feelings to the right time, 13 is undeniably too young, but not everyone has absolute power over these feelings{not sure anyone does}.

True. Not everyone has absolute power, but, we damn well have the ability *most of the time*. You have feelings just like you have thoughts--you are *not* your thoughts and feelings. One more person says that we ARE and I'll rip my hair out. You can control them.

@ general thread
This is getting ridiculous. I don't care to debate on what levels or what type of sex ed is most effective/should be enforced, but it IS needed. Especially to prevent this sort of thing. Or else we might as well just be a bunch of rats having litters of up to 24 babies in our nests.

Studies have shown that girls are developing younger and younger, with a fair correlation to the chemicals in our food. It's not surprising that there would be an effect on boys as well. I remember I could "finish" the job when I was 12.
:roleyess: Whoa there, son. Damn. Watch where you point that thing.
Really, human maturation rates are excessively slow in comparason to any animal in the world. We're treating younger and younger people with more responsibilities and more pressure, and I think that's adding to their younger development.

Hm. I'm interested. So, Really? Responsibility? Could have fooled me here in the U.S.A. I mean that if our performance educationally or occupationally is declining I would think we are not responsible enough. But that may be a debate for another thread.

Normally I would not ask you to provide a source, but as this is Kavar's, errm, would you mind doing us the honor? Regarding responsibilities, especially.
Doesn't have to be perfect, but I think that this is quite relevant.
Then whatever you can find on genetically engineered/chemically/hormonally treated food as a secondary.

It will be interesting to see what causes actually factored into this.

Ztalker
02-18-2009, 05:26 AM
True enough, my friend.

So what is being done about it? Sure stuff happens but I mean, come on, seriously. We may be animals of a sort, however we will not die if depriving ourselves of it I would think.

Not everyone has absolute power, but, we damn well have the ability *most of the time*. You have feelings just like you have thoughts--you are *not* your thoughts and feelings. One more person says that we ARE and I'll rip my hair out. You can control them.

@ general thread
This is getting ridiculous. I don't care to debate on what levels or what type of sex ed is most effective/should be enforced, but it IS needed. Especially to prevent this sort of thing. Or else we might as well just be a bunch of rats having litters of up to 24 babies in our nests.

It will be interesting to see what causes actually factored into this.

Sadly, you have just answered it yourself. 'We are not animals.' When people roll into the wrong group, they do become animals (with all the respect, just using the same words). I told you about the 9-year old Rotterdam ghetto kids who have sex in the garag boxes there. That was seriously shocking.
Someone mentioned food here. I do know alcohol can have a major effect on young people.
That we have the power to control ourselves or protect ourselves from wrong groups doesn't mean everyone (especially lower-scholed children who seek confirmation) has it.

I'll close with an example:
As some of you know I've been a studen-teacher for some time now, hopping to a new school every year. 2 years ago, I worked at a school with some (relatively) old 'last-graders' (12-13 years old). No problemo.

A year later, my buddy says he'll bring a girl over to our pub. No problemo. it was a girl from my class though. And my buddy didn't fancy her anymore after she revealed she had already slept with multiple guys and was quite the...whore at 12-13 years of age.

What went wrong there? From innocent schoolgirl (which I can confirm since I knew everything about her work-related) to what she is now?

Maybe that's why I can answer this so calmly...I've seen it before :(

Bee Hoon
02-21-2009, 10:04 AM
Ztalker is right, as a professional teenager, I can attest that there are many times when you 'feel it' and the only way to cure that feeling is to 'do it', but since there is no proper companion, you're forced to play it solitaire. I'm sure that had I had a companion at that age, I could have had a lot of fun. Just saying.

/high-fives sabre of the past

//no progress yet, sabre of the past, i'm still working on it
You made me cringe and lol simultaneously :P

Teaching kids a little self control and making them understanding that there are consequences for actions would go a long way:/

TSR
02-21-2009, 04:19 PM
It took me 14 years to find my Johnson, that lucky kid.

Sometimes i'm so proud to be English.

Web Rider
02-21-2009, 08:44 PM
Normally I would not ask you to provide a source, but as this is Kavar's, errm, would you mind doing us the honor? Regarding responsibilities, especially.
Doesn't have to be perfect, but I think that this is quite relevant.
Then whatever you can find on genetically engineered/chemically/hormonally treated food as a secondary.

It will be interesting to see what causes actually factored into this.

More responsibilities should not be confused with giving them more responsibility. One is the giving of tasks to do and complete that require a higher level of responsibility, which is the ability to complete said tasks without screwing around.

In short, it is only from my personal observations that I THINK we're giving kids more to deal with, but not imparting upon them the skills to deal with it. I THINK this is because many lax parents today attempt to prove their quality as a parent through how many "adult" tasks their child can complete. It is personal observation and nothing more.

Hormones, that's pretty easy to find.

Some experts, such as D. Lindsey Berkson, author of Hormone Deception (Contemporary Books, 2000), worry that hormones in the food supply could be at least partly responsible for early puberty. The average age for a girl’s first period is now between 12.5 to 12.9 for white girls and around 12.2 for black girls, younger than at the turn of the century, though by how much is not known conclusively. However, at this point, a link between hormones and early puberty has not been established by researchers.
from: http://www.checnet.org/healthehouse/education/articles-detail.asp?Main_ID=127

Though I will insert my agenda on equal sex rights, I think the effects of these hormones on men and boys are largely being ignored. Most articles I read talk about the effects on girls.

Darth Avlectus
02-22-2009, 04:42 AM
That we have the power to control ourselves or protect ourselves from wrong groups doesn't mean everyone (especially lower-scholed children who seek confirmation) has it. True enough...so it is pertinent we who can and do impart it to the young as much as possible. This is not indoctrination or dogmas, this is plain common sense if we want to see less of this happening.

<SNIP>
What went wrong there? From innocent schoolgirl (which I can confirm since I knew everything about her work-related) to what she is now?

That may be answered in part by web rider's post below yours...which I shall quote below.

You made me cringe and lol simultaneously :P
Teaching kids a little self control and making them understanding that there are consequences for actions would go a long way:/ Thank you.:)

--Perhaps not a laugh of joy, but of shock?

{Snip} Response to deleted post. -RH

More responsibilities should not be confused with giving them more responsibility. Excellent discernment.

One is the giving of tasks to do and complete that require a higher level of responsibility, which is the ability to complete said tasks without screwing around. Which sadly does not happen often--or it is not done in such a way as to be effective. :(

...Yet we wonder about things like attention deficit disorder? How dense are we?

In short, it is only from my personal observations that I THINK we're giving kids more to deal with, but not imparting upon them the skills to deal with it. I THINK this is because many lax parents today attempt to prove their quality as a parent through how many "adult" tasks their child can complete. It is personal observation and nothing more.

No source? Bummer :( I was hoping for some study. This is something that really does need a good looking into IMO. However, thank you for interjecting your piece. Good clarification.

Side note: Do you believe this is also a factor in under achievement for Americans in both work and academic performances?

What do you suppose constitutes laxity in parenting? What factors play into such folly, I wonder? (Or maybe this ought to go into another thread?)

For example, there are parents who are religious and those who are not. Yet nowadays it would seem that religion is not effective at determining this laxity. Spirituality, and character development, on the other hand...I think they do. (YET) If religion does not facilitate that, then what does?

Using my own life as an example, my family is not religious; however, growing up, we did check around churches from time to time, we did do charitable things, and emphasis for morals & ethics was always on integrity, choices and consequences, and recognizing a relationship between the two in every situation.

Does it not appear in a modern society like the US, that it has so many conveniences, comforts, easy quick solutions, distractions?...Would it seem that those terms (spirituality and character development) are vague if not totally foreign altogether (character development and spirituality) in todays society?

What role does permissiveness play? Are there enough checks and balances taken into consideration by the general parenting population?

It would seem we are farthest from spirituality and character development in the US; this may just be my opinion, though. --I believe this because as more and more as time goes on, mockery and discouragement of such things has become more and more common.


Hormones, that's pretty easy to find.


from: http://www.checnet.org/healthehouse/education/articles-detail.asp?Main_ID=127

Though I will insert my agenda on equal sex rights, I think the effects of these hormones on men and boys are largely being ignored. Most articles I read talk about the effects on girls.

Good job--thanks. Actually, for the record I agree with the whole general assertion here that the boys and men are being ignored in how things affect them. You raise a good specific point here too. We are not looking at the *whole* picture. Or at least that is my opinion.

Ztalker
02-22-2009, 10:50 AM
True enough...so it is pertinent we who can and do impart it to the young as much as possible. This is not indoctrination or dogmas, this is plain common sense if we want to see less of this happening.


Agreed. There was a recent program on the television that we watched with the class. Several experts and famous people were allowed to talk and they all said starting early out of peer pressure is not the way. The children got the message, so I'm fully supporting your view on this.

In any case, it's good to see that many people have strong arguments and views in this thread. :)

Jae Onasi
02-22-2009, 04:25 PM
We're straying pretty close to the edge as far as topic content goes--just a reminder to keep it PG-13. Thanks. :)

igyman
02-22-2009, 04:47 PM
Full Story (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Alfie-Patten-13-Year-Old-Boy-From-Eastbourne-Becomes-A-Father/Article/200902215222421?lpos=UK_News_First_Home_Article_Te aser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15222421_Alfie_Patten%3A_13-Year-Old_Boy_From_Eastbourne_Becomes_A_Father)

~snip~

Thoughts?

This. Is. So. Unbelievably. Weird. I can't find the words to describe the shock. I mean, yeah, teen pregnancies do happen, but this... this isn't a teen pregnancy, which only makes it worse. The boy was only 12 when he had intercourse with his girlfriend and now he's supposed to be a father?! This won't end well.

What amazes me are two things:
1) How and why did at least one of them, especially the girlfriend as she's supposed to be slightly more mature, not think of using a friggin' condom?!
2) Why the heck did the parents of both children allow this pregnancy? Why not abort?! (OK, it's entirely possible, if not highly probable, the children kept this pregnancy a secret from the parents until it was too late, but considering we don't know the whole story it's a legitimate question)

Det. Bart Lasiter
02-22-2009, 11:26 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1145845/I-DNA-test-says-Alfie-teenagers-claim-father.html

Jae Onasi
02-23-2009, 01:25 AM
This is turning into a regular Peyton Place.

Samnmax221
02-23-2009, 03:25 AM
Wow, Alfies 13, and I was thinking more complex thoughts than him when I was 3.
Dunno
No
Dunno. Haven't got any. Not maths

Jae Onasi
02-23-2009, 11:06 AM
He's sleep-deprived caring for the baby.

Ztalker
02-25-2009, 01:08 PM
He's sleep-deprived caring for the baby.

He'll be needing his share of sleep as well on his age though. He's probably dreaming about transformers or pokemon right now while his parents care for the baby...

Vaelastraz
02-25-2009, 03:37 PM
He's probably dreaming about transformers or pokemon right now while his parents care for the baby...

I hope you're not trying to insinuate something about pokemon or transformers here.. :dev8:

Jae Onasi
02-25-2009, 05:12 PM
I can't imagine British social services not getting involved in this case with parents that young, and I would be guessing that the grandparents will be very involved in the baby's care (at least I hope for good care for the baby's sake).

Ztalker
02-25-2009, 05:25 PM
I hope you're not trying to insinuate something about pokemon or transformers here.. :dev8:
Playing with your Optimus Prime or Starscream won't feed the baby. Unless it's transformer or pokemon food. Hmmm.

I can't imagine British social services not getting involved in this case with parents that young, and I would be guessing that the grandparents will be very involved in the baby's care (at least I hope for good care for the baby's sake).
My guess too. Maybe there will be a set date from when the kids themself can raise his child. I know that, over here, teeen mothers/fathers/couples are most of the time raised by social organisations or specially trained foster families who take the whole young family in.

ZimmMaster
02-25-2009, 05:59 PM
I wonder how long the 13 yr old will last with all the pressure.

Web Rider
02-25-2009, 06:13 PM
Playing with your Optimus Prime or Starscream won't feed the baby. Unless it's transformer or pokemon food. Hmmm.

Energon won't feed your baby unless it's some kind of Borg. Grilled Magikarp on the other hand, probably will do nicely.

Samnmax221
02-25-2009, 06:16 PM
He'll be needing his share of sleep as well on his age though. He's probably dreaming about transformers or pokemon right now while his parents care for the baby...
Is that what kids like these days? I'll have to start keeping some of that stuff in my van.

Ztalker
02-25-2009, 06:22 PM
Is that what kids like these days? I'll have to start keeping some of that stuff in my van.

Yep. Comes with being a teacher. Hype after hype after hype...it's soccer stickers and nintendo nowadays, btw.
And it won't be of use in your van. You can't smoke/drink it :xp:

TSR
02-25-2009, 08:07 PM
Whats worrying is that this kind of thing happens all the time. When i was at Secondary School one of my form members had a kid in Year 8. Just happens this one gets publicised and happens to be what can only be described as the least... visitable places in Britain.

Long live Great Britain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrSKA7zZxVQ

Samnmax221
03-27-2009, 04:29 AM
Remember Alfie....
http://i40.tinypic.com/jhdkki.gif



Wouldn't the world be much better today,
if all chav's were miles and miles away?
Where theres far more craters,
than wankers and thugs.
Nothing but each other,
and clangers to mug.
Moon chav's,
chav's on the moon.
In a Burberry Spaceship,
chav's on the moon. (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/793968/dna-test-proves-alfie-13-is-not-a-dad)

Ztalker
03-27-2009, 08:28 AM
^ Good one. At least the guy admitted he's not ready/capable enough to raise a child. The thread's subject, the kid, thought he could...

Jae Onasi
04-02-2009, 05:41 PM
Apparently the boy is not the father after they've done DNA testing according to a UK article I read the other day whose link I can't find at the moment. What disturbed me is that the parents said the boy could come sleep over with their daughter, and that the boy's parents apparently saw nothing wrong with this either.

Not only did the parents not have their tickets to the Clue Bus, they couldn't even find the Clue Bus station if it was staring them in the face. Hello parents, this is the Common Sense Mother Ship calling. Teenagers are horny. They're like guppies. Put two of them together and you're going to have a crapload of little guppies very quickly.

Astor
04-02-2009, 05:50 PM
Apparently the boy is not the father after they've done DNA testing according to a UK article I read the other day whose link I can't find at the moment.

I can't say i'm surprised, given the initial reports of up to 8 possible candidates.

What disturbed me is that the parents said the boy could come sleep over with their daughter, and that the boy's parents apparently saw nothing wrong with this either.

Agreed. "Bad Parenting" doesn't even begin to cover it.

Not only did the parents not have their tickets to the Clue Bus, they couldn't even find the Clue Bus station if it was staring them in the face. Hello parents, this is the Common Sense Mother Ship calling. Teenagers are horny. They're like guppies. Put two of them together and you're going to have a crapload of little guppies very quickly.

Unfortunately it's a lesson these kids have learnt the hard way.

Jae Onasi
04-02-2009, 05:55 PM
Makes me wonder if I can find a company that still makes chastity belts when my kids hit puberty. :lol:

Blix
04-02-2009, 06:08 PM
That's pretty gross for sure, I'd blame it on the media but I don't know England's Television schedule.

Astor
04-02-2009, 06:12 PM
That's pretty gross for sure, I'd blame it on the media but I don't know England's Television schedule.

It's no worse than the television schedules in the US. And 'blaming it on TV' wouldn't work - it's ultimately the parents' fault - for firstly allowing this to happen, and secondly, not teaching their children about the risks involved.

Samnmax221
04-02-2009, 07:14 PM
Agreed. "Bad Parenting" doesn't even begin to cover it.
Chav does.

Drunkside
04-07-2009, 04:17 AM
Its kinda naive to think they didnt know the risks... i mean, im 17 soon and ive known all the risks with unprotected sex for a damn 6 years now. No, they knew it but just decided to ignore it. Probably cause of the girl, she seems like the average teen ho. This kinda crap happens here in finland all the time, and sex disease rates are growing at an alarming rate, and only cause drunken teenagers dont use condoms.

Ztalker
04-07-2009, 06:39 AM
Apparently the boy is not the father after they've done DNA testing according to a UK article I read the other day whose link I can't find at the moment. What disturbed me is that the parents said the boy could come sleep over with their daughter, and that the boy's parents apparently saw nothing wrong with this either.

Not only did the parents not have their tickets to the Clue Bus, they couldn't even find the Clue Bus station if it was staring them in the face. Hello parents, this is the Common Sense Mother Ship calling. Teenagers are horny. They're like guppies. Put two of them together and you're going to have a crapload of little guppies very quickly.

If everyone had the same amount of intelligence, this wouldn't have happened. Fact is some people are stupid. And I'm sure we'll hear a similar story like this next year. :(