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leXX
04-28-2009, 02:52 PM
BioWare has spent the last couple of days in hot water with the homosexual community, thanks to banning certain words from their forums. Kotaku recently reported that the company locked threads dealing with homosexuality in The Old Republic, and censored the words "gay," "lesbian," and "homosexual." Community manager Sean Dahlberg simply said, "As I have stated before, these are terms that do not exist in Star Wars." Insert C-3PO joke here.

But that wasn't the end of the story. Following the controversy from the banned words, VG247 now reports that the words are usable again. Dahlberg has clarified that "no one was suspended or banned from this website for any discussions on the subject with the exception of individuals who were being derogatory and insulting to others."

The censoring has raised the question of whether BioWare will allow homosexual relationships in the actual game. The company hasn't shied away from these relationships before, and this controversy on the forums may have shown them that people care about being able to express themselves. We'll have to see what happens with The Old Republic when it comes out.

Like Microsoft's recent controversy, this was probably a well-intentioned attempt to curb abuse, and got out of hand by seeming to muzzle users. And technically Dahlberg's initial comment is only half-right. Terms like "homosexual" are never literally used in Star Wars, but the so-called Expanded Universe does have homosexual characters, like one of Boba Fett's best lieutenants.

Source: 1UP (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3173967)

Alkonium
04-28-2009, 03:06 PM
So, does that mean BioWare will try to coin some form of Star Wars equivalents?

Ztalker
04-28-2009, 03:39 PM
Hmmm. Dare I say hypocrisy?

Juhani and Liara T'soni never had any problems with a female playable character. Judging by that, I'd say it's a Lucasarts decision to stop the discussion.

Weak.

jrrtoken
04-28-2009, 03:44 PM
Even if they do allow some sort of gay relationship, it'll probably only be girl-girl. Man-man is a big no-no in society, as always.

True_Avery
04-28-2009, 04:31 PM
Even if they do allow some sort of gay relationship, it'll probably only be girl-girl. Man-man is a big no-no in society, as always.
Tends to be how it works.

It depends on if there are relationships in the game at all. That'll determine if I care or not. And, even so, the Carth relationship was one of the few female/male relationships in a RPG I genuinely liked so, hopefully, if they can get it right, it should be fine with or without them.

I guess I'd like it for the ability to, but to be honest I'd rather have it not included in an MMO setting in fear of persecution. Female/female would be abused, and male/male would get nasty PMs and such. It is better to just play it safe then give the bigots something else to kick someone over.

But as far as the censoring goes, I come to the same conclusion I do with Xbox live: Its a sexual matter, and doesn't really need to be mentioned. Unless there is active discrimination, I don't mind the words are banned because, personally, I hate the words anyway. They imply and are based in a mature, person topic that has basis in sexuality which, understandably, has been banned from PG-13 settings.

Miltiades
04-28-2009, 05:02 PM
I guess I'd like it for the ability to, but to be honest I'd rather have it not included in an MMO setting in fear of persecution. Female/female would be abused, and male/male would get nasty PMs and such. It is better to just play it safe then give the bigots something else to kick someone over. Should we not be able to pick a black character, as well, because of possible racism? BioWare has a ban function, I'd suggest they use it.

I'm going to name my character homosexual lover. Let's see how long that lasts.

True_Avery
04-28-2009, 05:11 PM
Should we not be able to pick a black character, as well, because of possible racism? BioWare has a ban function, I'd suggest they use it.
Well, this isn't the forum to really get in depth with it, but there is a difference in society between a black man and a homosexual man.

Also, being black isn't inherently sexual. Being straight or homosexual is. The words, actions, etc that sexual orientation imply are sexual, and America/overly religious is too stuck up their ass to realize that a boob is not a life ending scenario for their children, no less mention of homosexuality in a video game.

Microsoft, Blizzard, and now apparently Bioware are of the opinion that the subject is beyond PG-13 and thus does not belong or need to be mentioned. This is not so much a Homosexuals Vs Bioware thing as it is a mature sexuality vs a PG-13 setting.

If people want to vent on how great it is to be Homosexual or Straight, then find the forum for it. It doesn't need to be mentioned in Xbox live, the Bioware forum, or really an MMO as, I believe, society is too sensitive right now and that sensitivity could harm the game in the future.

Miltiades
04-28-2009, 05:18 PM
Well, this isn't the forum to really get in depth with it, but there is a difference in society between a black man and a homosexual man. True, but they're both a target for discrimination.

society is too sensitive right now and that sensitivity could harm the game in the future. I do not think they should avoid sensitive subjects to appease the masses, but I guess in these times, such subjects won't get through a PG-13 rating.

Web Rider
04-28-2009, 11:55 PM
Honestly, this is a very strange American thing that these game developers are doing with their heavy emphasis on straight relationships and typical male lust for hot lesbians getting it on.

As the designers of Fable 2 created within their NPCs, each had their own likes and dislikes and sexual preferences. While complicated romantic dialog that's remotely realistic is difficult, there is no reason that relationships in a game should not be based on the same things they are in reality, closeness, openness, trust and so on. These things can be worked into a game much as they have been in many of Bioware's games already.

I see no reason that Lucasarts(aside from the obvious male-o-centricness of Lucas himself) should limit options available to the player. Should every NPC swing both ways? No, they shouldn't, if you want it realistic, then like real life some people are straight and some are bi and some are gay and some are neither. This is no complex thing to set up in a game.

adamqd
04-29-2009, 03:50 AM
You can say Gay again now.

edit: It's proven a point though... the first thread is a guy listing everything he can now say, followed by about 10 posts of "This thread is gay" "What a gay statement to make" "Well at least you and all the other gays are happy now lol"

Zerimar Nyliram
04-29-2009, 02:55 PM
I don't really care. I mean, obviously gameplay and interaction between flesh-and-blood players can't be considered canon, so what's the point?

Nedak
04-29-2009, 03:25 PM
I'd rather hear more about the gameplay than if you can be Gay or not...

Samnmax221
04-29-2009, 03:36 PM
I'd rather hear more about the gameplay than if you can be Gay or not...
Don't worry, that will suck regardless. You're best off distracting yourself with thoughts of crossing swords.

Nedak
04-29-2009, 03:44 PM
You're best off distracting yourself with thoughts of crossing swords.

I'd rather not fulfill your fantasies. :thmbup1:

EnderWiggin
04-29-2009, 06:40 PM
I guess I'd like it for the ability to, but to be honest I'd rather have it not included in an MMO setting in fear of persecution. Female/female would be abused, and male/male would get nasty PMs and such. It is better to just play it safe then give the bigots something else to kick someone over.


Hmm... Don't you think that if this is your attitude, there will never be any progress for you or for any of those in the gay community?

"Don't talk about it, just in case" sounds like a losing philosophy, but maybe I just don't understand your point of view :(

_EW_

True_Avery
04-29-2009, 07:03 PM
"Don't talk about it, just in case" sounds like a losing philosophy, but maybe I just don't understand your point of view :(
Anywhere else I'd probably agree. If the MMO, Star Wars, and Bioware forums weren't -attempting- to be a little younger I'd agree.

But, I'm of the opinion that it is a personal matter. I don't need to hear about your homosexuality anymore than I need to hear about a straight person's sexuality. Its a mature subject, it has sexual under tones, and in an MMO just adds another layer for persecution and trolling of any kind.

Mention, implication, etc of the subject usually gets you game into a high Teen or M rating category, both homosexual and straight. If there are to be relationships, I'd rather them be respectful and more thought out than the Mass Effect relationships for example.

Sure, an LGBT guild sounds great. Except, technically, it is breaking the discrimination rules be disallowing people to join the guild on the merit of "well, they aren't like us".

In summary, as I've said, I don't see this as a persecution against homosexuals as much as I see it as an attempt to keep heat off their backs for something as large as an MMO and separating sexual tones and recognizing them as a mature subject.

But, that said, I still wouldn't mind relationships in the game. They would be heavily abused and I'd probably find that abuse of it offensive, but hey. Its a feature and they have the right to use it. As long as its done respectfully and, as Web said, thoughtfully.

I can just understand why they would want to shy away from the subject, and can also understand why they would get rid of such words on a strictly gaming forum.

I do, however, call BS on their reasoning that "there are no homosexuals in Star Wars". That, more than anything, actually sounds like a bigoted cop out.

adamqd
04-29-2009, 07:05 PM
Ok, so they banned the word Gay because people were using it in an immature offensive way, The Gay Community were outraged, Forum discontinues ban, realizing ban is over, children and adults use word again in said fashion, No information has been released as to whether you can even instigate a relationship in game story, there is uproar that you can't instigate a Gay relationship(?!)...

They release a lackluster update last Friday and above happens.

Note to tOR Community= This is a Real issue that is of up most Importance... but this, I'm afraid, is a pg13 MMO, I don't care who rocks who's casbah... I dont want to hear about it in game tbh.

Note to Bioware= Release enough info to last the community till following update.

True_Avery
04-29-2009, 07:14 PM
Ok, so they banned the word Gay because people were using it in an immature offensive way, The Gay Community were outraged, Forum discontinues ban, realizing ban is over, children and adults use word again in said fashion, No information has been released as to whether you can even instigate a relationship in game story, there is uproar that you can't instigate a Gay relationship(?!)...
I assumed as much. Hence why I hate the words in general.

Note to Bioware= Release enough info to last the community till following update.
That sums all this up nicely.