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News
06-01-2009, 06:50 PM
Happy E3 everyone! Bioware and Lucasarts have released an amazing new cinematic teasing us with some story details for Star Wars: The Old Republic. Check it out! http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-star-wars/49936 -Rox

Read the full story at starwarsmmo.net... (http://www.starwarsmmo.net/news/incredible-new-star-wars-the-old-repbulic-cinematic/)

Venom750
06-01-2009, 07:12 PM
the most exciting cinematic i have ever seen in my LIFE WOW

jrrtoken
06-01-2009, 07:20 PM
It's a great trailer and all, but I hoped for more info rather than just another teaser.

Still, I'm glad that the game will be fully voiced, but that also comes with a darker side. Be sure to expect BioWare's regulars to do some more shoddy voice acting.

Miltiades
06-01-2009, 07:25 PM
Great trailer, but I think they used too much music in it. It didn't work very well. Still, amazing video.

I'm with you on the voice-acting, PastramiX. I hope they stop using their regulars and start hiring some new actors, for a well-needed refreshment.

SW01
06-01-2009, 07:30 PM
If it looked like that, whether or not to get it wouldn't even cost a second's thought! Sad that it does not...

Going by that then, all of the Jedi robes look to be armour covered in a robe. At least it isn't white clone armour. That Sith looks very impressive though.

Very nice trailer, certainly. Again BioWare manages to horrify and appal with a comic and some artwork, then astound with videos.

Very novel way of getting into the Temple - who else wants to be able to do that in game?

HK-42
06-01-2009, 07:35 PM
The sith in the ship looked like Revan I thought. Great Trailer though.

SW01
06-01-2009, 07:50 PM
The sith in the ship looked like Revan I thought

Yeah - I thought that too. Something in the shape of the mask.

The main Sith Lord looked like a half-unhelmeted Vader.

The style really is very, very Clone Wars-y. Temple, Sith warships and TIE/ETA-2 fighters, Cruscant in general...but still, presented like this it doesn't look too bad. Even borders on acceptable.:lol:

It might end up being just different enough from the Clone Wars.

I think they used too much music in it.

Well, at the very least we got a first slight nod to TSL with the Malachor V theme!

Vaelastraz
06-01-2009, 07:59 PM
This cinematic is absolutely awesome. Almost on par with Blizzard's cinematics.
I don't agree with their choice of music though.. TSL's music doesn't fit here imo. Also, the Sith look rather boringly designed to me, especially the Sith Lord.

leXX
06-01-2009, 08:45 PM
It's a great trailer and all, but I hoped for more info rather than just another teaser.

The Edge Magazine article I posted said we would see 20-30 mins of gameplay footage at E3. Let's just hope we do.

Awesome trailer.

Fredi
06-01-2009, 09:45 PM
Great trailer, I love the battle and the cinematic.

Alkonium
06-01-2009, 10:38 PM
That may have very well been more interesting than anything in the movies.

Nedak
06-01-2009, 11:04 PM
Great trailer.

I hope the gameplay is this awesome.

DarthJacen
06-01-2009, 11:19 PM
Yeah - I thought that too. Something in the shape of the mask.

The main Sith Lord looked like a half-unhelmeted Vader.

The style really is very, very Clone Wars-y. Temple, Sith warships and TIE/ETA-2 fighters, Cruscant in general...but still, presented like this it doesn't look too bad. Even borders on acceptable.:lol:

It might end up being just different enough from the Clone Wars.



Well, at the very least we got a first slight nod to TSL with the Malachor V theme!

Well, considering, LucasArts approved both games, I'm not surprised about that, per say. But, the John Williams piece from RotS was unexpected. It gave you the feeling that the Clone Wars was simply events repeating themselves.

John Galt
06-01-2009, 11:30 PM
that. was. amazing.

Da_man
06-01-2009, 11:57 PM
The trailer looked really good, but i'd rather have a gameplay trailer instead of another cinematic.

I'm with you on the voice-acting, PastramiX. I hope they stop using their regulars and start hiring some new actors, for a well-needed refreshment.

I thought the voice acting in the KOTOR games wasn't too bad. It wasn't great, but it wasn't like Oblivion crappy voices. I would like some good voice acting, but that cost a ton of money to get good actors.

Devilsfanatic
06-02-2009, 12:06 AM
It was definitely Revan's mask, or a replica of some sorts.

I'm thinking his story will be expanded upon in this game. We'll find out what happened out there in the outer rim with him. Could he be the Sith Lord who comes back to attack? Or did they take his teachings and use them for themselves?

Did he fall when he went back out there? The trailer raises those questions. I think we see T3-M4 at some point too, them showing the T3 droid was no accident.

DAWUSS
06-02-2009, 12:09 AM
Was that one Sith Lord an amalgamation between Revan and Vader?

Devilsfanatic
06-02-2009, 12:20 AM
Was that one Sith Lord an amalgamation between Revan and Vader?

yes, but look at the guys

http://hfboards.com/picture.php?albumid=557&pictureid=3339

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n18/ThePurge/DarthRevan.jpg

Same mask.

DarthJacen
06-02-2009, 12:25 AM
I'd like to know how Lord Angral could use Force Lightning with what appeared to be a droid hand. Maybe that was is lone living arm.

Devilsfanatic
06-02-2009, 12:29 AM
Revan taught him how to be better than Darth Vader.

DAWUSS
06-02-2009, 12:44 AM
yes, but look at the guys

http://hfboards.com/picture.php?albumid=557&pictureid=3339

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n18/ThePurge/DarthRevan.jpg

Same mask.

But that body reminds me of Vader.

Same with the other Sith Lord. Must be the cyborgesque limbs.

BTW, the BH lady = FTW ;)

Devilsfanatic
06-02-2009, 12:59 AM
I think they probably just rendered that for the fans as an homage to the two greatest Sith Lords to ever live.

DarthJacen
06-02-2009, 01:34 AM
Well, with Anakin/ Vader being the son of the Force, or so Qui-Gon thinks, that would make him a good contestant for greatest Sith Lord ever, but Revan turned on the Sith and became a Jedi again, in the canonical version.

RoxStar
06-02-2009, 01:51 AM
Well, with Anakin/ Vader being the son of the Force, or so Qui-Gon thinks, that would make him a good contestant for greatest Sith Lord ever, but Revan turned on the Sith and became a Jedi again, in the canonical version.

George Lucas has repeatedly said that Anakin Skywalker was the "most gifted force user ever".

lukeiamyourdad
06-02-2009, 02:19 AM
Oi, will Star Wars fans ever be satisfied?

I haven't been on the forums in months, but when I saw this on Gametrailers.com...I ******* in my pants and had to post.

Who cares about music taken from TSL or the Prequels?
Who cares about similarities with the Clone Wars?
Who gives a rat's ass about recycled voice actors?
Who cares about ships looking like Imperial ones?
Who cares if it's not a gameplay trailer?

You get a beautifully choregraphed battle and fight sequences, you get wonderful details and action that easily rivals what can be seen in the prequels. This is hands down the best Star Wars video game cinematic I've ever seen.

When I loaded the WoW Beta for the first time and saw the intro cinematic, I went "WOW! That was cool!"
When I loaded Warhammer 40 000 : Dawn of War for the first time, I saw the cinematic and went "Holy...! That was awesome!"

For many, this will be their first contact with the game. And what a great first contact it is!

Titanius Anglesmith
06-02-2009, 03:12 AM
Wow. That was damn good. I'm not usually a big fan of slow motion, but the parts they implemented it in were pretty sweet.

What I don't understand is why they feel the need to throw Clone Wars **** at us for the thousandth time when they could be making a TV series (with this kind of animation) set in the Old Republic era.

adamqd
06-02-2009, 06:34 AM
I thought it was an amazing Teaser, so much so I feel I must dedicate my Life to avenging that Brave Jedi Warrior.

My Only criticism is that it is not the game, an amazing feat of design and action, but not what we'll be playing... But we already know that, great cinematic A+

SW01
06-02-2009, 07:18 AM
I thought it was an amazing Teaser, so much so I feel I must dedicate my Life to avenging that Brave Jedi Warrior.

I felt quite the opposite - I wanted to play part of that Sith group attacking the Temple! :lol:

Y'know, if Lucas really has to make CGI features, they should look like that. And have the same sort of plot.

Well, considering, LucasArts approved both games, I'm not surprised about that, per say.

I was referring to the point that most of TSL seemed to have been ignored in the timeline and whatnot, despite any LucasApproval. ;)

Soogz
06-02-2009, 08:23 AM
I was pretty stunned by this trailer.... I think it stole the show, so far. EA completely tore it up with their line up coming out. This game looks sweet. It kind of feels cool that you will be able to write your own unique story with your own character or characters... Cannot wait for this one.

Tommycat
06-02-2009, 08:44 AM
Dang... If the clone wars had near this much attention and effort put into it, meybe a lot of the criticism's about art would never have happened. Darn pretty. I hope the game comes out near that level of pretty. VERY cool action sequences. Gotta say the T3 droid must have some significance. Seeing as how it seemed kinda thrown in there...

DAWUSS
06-02-2009, 10:13 AM
Has Wookieepedia ID'd every "non-extra" in that clip yet? lol

DAWUSS
06-02-2009, 10:20 AM
BTW, did anyone see the "press conference" that came with that?


... that has me worried again.

Demongo
06-02-2009, 11:51 AM
Very nice trailer! As you guys said before, that sith lord looks like Revan+Vader

Quanon
06-02-2009, 12:27 PM
Well, at the very least we got a first slight nod to TSL with the Malachor V theme!

It was a neat blend really, going from that movie music to the game music.

I didn't notice at first :p

DarthJacen
06-02-2009, 12:55 PM
Did anyone notice that the lightsaber styles in the cinematic were the Nick Gillard taught the actors during the prequels? Does this not suggest direct interaction with Nick Gillard?

Fredi
06-02-2009, 01:31 PM
This trailer is so good I watch it every 5 minutes. Beautiful.

Miltiades
06-02-2009, 02:32 PM
Who cares about music taken from TSL or the Prequels? I do.
Who cares about similarities with the Clone Wars? I do.
Who gives a rat's ass about recycled voice actors? I do.
Who cares about ships looking like Imperial ones? I do.
Who cares if it's not a gameplay trailer? Meh, not so much.

I thought the voice acting in the KOTOR games wasn't too bad. It wasn't great, but it wasn't like Oblivion crappy voices. I would like some good voice acting, but that cost a ton of money to get good actors. Oh, don't get me wrong. I thought the voice-actors in KotOR were good. But Sbarge and Hale (+others) are being used all over the place. It's time for something else.

Devilsfanatic
06-02-2009, 04:06 PM
George Lucas has repeatedly said that Anakin Skywalker was the "most gifted force user ever".

Sure, but we know as a kid he was irritating. As a teen he was worse, and as an adult I wanted him to die. It's only when he became Darth Vader from Ep IV to VI that he was awesome.

Revan has been awesome since the day he was born.

And I think he could kick Darth Vader's ass in a fight. He has the ability for force Lightning, something Vader didn't have, and what he succumbed to.

Anyway, when is this game coming out?

TKA-001
06-02-2009, 04:45 PM
It was a big epic cutscene that drowns in Bioware's apparent need for everything to be cooler than the movies but still recognizable as "iconic and Star Warsy", which means ripping off previously-existing designs for absolutely everything (a factor that it would have been no less than three times as cool had it been excised).

In any case, the next time a fanboy tells me how brilliant Revan was and how he always won in the end, I can point to this cutscene and say "nice job protecting us, Revan."

DarthJacen
06-02-2009, 04:51 PM
Did anyone download it and watch it in full 1280 by 720 HD resolution, yet with 5.1 Surround Sound? It's like a three and a half minute movie!

It was a big epic cutscene that drowns in Bioware's apparent need for everything to be cooler than the movies but still recognizable as "iconic and Star Warsy", which means ripping off previously-existing designs for absolutely everything (a factor that it would have been no less than three times as cool had it been excised).

In any case, the next time a fanboy tells me how brilliant Revan was and how he always won in the end, I can point to this cutscene and say "nice job protecting us, Revan."

Yeah, good point I think, this gives us a hint that Revan was brutally killed when he sought out the Sith Empire before the beginning of TSL.

TriggerGod
06-02-2009, 05:27 PM
I have to admit, some of the words I had for TOR before weren't very kind, and now, if they were to change this into an SPRPG, than I would definitely play it. Hell, I'd even play it even if it stayed an MMO, if I could afford the charge (if they are doing it, I haven't heard if they were or weren't. I didn't pay attention to TOR's updates and news that much)

And I did also notice the eerie resemblance the Dark Jedi had to Revan, at least in mask. I wonder what it means.

lukeiamyourdad
06-02-2009, 05:28 PM
I do.
I do.
I do.
I do.
Meh, not so much.


Missed the point eh?

I took every little nitpick that were posted, because that's what it was. A stunning teaser is made and people find little pointless details to whine about. What are we? The Trekkies who complained about the new movie because it was a good and full of action?

I thought Star Wars fans were beyond crap like that.

Hallucination
06-02-2009, 05:45 PM
Did anyone else expect the line "You were not prepared" to be said?

yes, but look at the guys
Same mask.

I once wore the same shirt as someone else to a party, it was embarrassing.

WraithPrince
06-02-2009, 06:12 PM
Omg ofc we got to pull "omg R3van is t3h beast" in this thread because there is a small resemblance in masks "t3h omgz Revans mask is almost t3h same as N30 Crusad3r mask! oh wa1tz it IS mandal0res mask si11y m3!!!!"

Miltiades
06-02-2009, 06:44 PM
Missed the point eh?

I took every little nitpick that were posted, because that's what it was. A stunning teaser is made and people find little pointless details to whine about. What are we? The Trekkies who complained about the new movie because it was a good and full of action?

I thought Star Wars fans were beyond crap like that. The problem isn't with the movie itself, which was great. It's that all these little elements confirms the direction they're taking with this thing, which is a Clone Wars-PT-OT kind of setting. Of course, if those Star Destroyers, Tie Fighters, Darth Vader's and such aren't in the game, I won't be complaining. But I'll tell you something: I think they will.

Titanius Anglesmith
06-02-2009, 08:41 PM
And I did also notice the eerie resemblance the Dark Jedi had to Revan, at least in mask. I wonder what it means.

I don't think it has anything to do with Revan at all. It's only another bond between this game and the KotOR series, specifically aimed at Revan fanboys who are pissed that you don't get to play as him.

TKA-001
06-02-2009, 08:42 PM
I took every little nitpick that were posted, because that's what it was. A stunning teaser is made and people find little pointless details to whine about.
I would hardly call this cinematic anything approaching "stunning", because it's just a cinematic. It doesn't say jack about the game itself. Therefore, any criticism of the cinematic is as valid as any other opinion. All your doing is saying that since a criticism is a "nitpick", then that somehow affects the truth of the statement.

What are we? The Trekkies who complained about the new movie because it was a good and full of action? I thought Star Wars fans were beyond crap like that.
What exactly is the relation between the two subjects?

I don't think it has anything to do with Revan at all. It's only another bond between this game and the KotOR series, specifically aimed at Revan fanboys who are pissed that you don't get to play as him.
Most likely. It's a smaller symptom of their overall need to have things look like Star Wars, which is only a bad thing when they try too bloody hard. Neither KotOR games suffered from this problem.

Lord of Hunger
06-02-2009, 08:55 PM
So what? There were only two really bad things about the Prequels when it comes down to it:

1) The characters and their actors: It was as if Lucas was going for the worst combination possible. Everyone but Palpatine in those movies were morons and completely uninteresting.
2) The story: Completely unbelievable. The Jedi had "please kill us with a RED lightsaber sign" on their temple the entire time and both the Republic and Anakin switched allegiances just because Palpatine says something.

Yet the appearance and style of the Prequels is definitely preferable to the Old Trilogy. Much more futuristic. What I am seeing in this MMO is the perfect hybrid of KOTOR and Prequel art. I am frankly glad that the Republic trooper looks like a clone 'cause I'd take a clone over KOTOR's Republic redshirts any day.

And the music is great. John Willians is a master of sound. I'm hoping, however, that any KOTOR/TSL music is purely KOTOR, since TSL's soundtrack mostly sucked.

As for the Sith Lord with the partial Vader outfit...why not? It'd help to have some armor here and there that doesn't make Vader's outfit so outlandish. When his suit appeared in ROTS (pun intended :D ), it look very outdated and really did not fit at all with his surrounds.

The only thing I am worried at all about with this MMO is balancing the Jedi and Sith out. Historically, the Sith kick Jedi *** all the time, and are barely stopped by some overpowered dude at the end of the story (Luke, Revan, Jaden, Cade, Exile, Kyle, etc.). Common Jedi (not just PC Jedi mind you since a good player can make any PC kick***) will need to get a good boost in power and perhaps abilities Sith PCs can not use period.

On the other hand, I don't think anyone is realizing how much this MMO is a revolution in the nature of Star Wars. The general sequence is that young man/woman gets uber powerful and saves the Jedi/Republic/Rebels/cute bunny rabbits from the nasty Sith/Empire/Sith Empire/supervillain with terminal laughing disorder just in time to walk away with the romantic interest into the sunset. In KOTOR they did a particularly good job of it, and in TSL they made it into more of a personal epic (though they left all the game's guts out :P ). This MMO lets everyone have their own personal epic in an awesome Star Wars environment without impacting the game in such a way that the Sith Emperor dies and the Empire collapses, prompting everyone to fly over to Lehon/Rakata Prime/the Unknown World so Admiral Dodanna gives you the Cross of Glory and some Yoda clone rants at you about the Dark Side for the very last time.

This is where we gamers get to truly be part of the Star Wars universe. The only limitation I see is the super strict LS/DS system of morality that bugs me, but there will be ways to work around that. We can now do our own thing without someone else setting up our story.

So thank you LucasArts/Bioware.

TriggerGod
06-02-2009, 08:55 PM
What exactly is the relation between the two subjects?

Trekkies whined because the movie wasn't what the show was.
We are whining because this game isn't what the KOTOR series was.
Now do you see the relationship?

TKA-001
06-02-2009, 09:00 PM
Trekkies whined because the movie wasn't what the show was.
We are whining because this game isn't what the KOTOR series was.
Now do you see the relationship?
I understand what you mean, but the quoted post from lukeiamyourdad wasn't a response to anyone talking about TOR not being "what the KotOR series was".

Sith'ari Darth Bane
06-03-2009, 03:07 AM
This trailer rocks! I thought that the lightsaber duel was a lot better than any others before, it just looked more realistic IMO.

As for every one who thinks Revan when seeing those masks, here is a good look of one I got from the trailer:
http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt37/deker84/newsith_mask.png

It does look like Revan's and I too thought the first one was Revan himself. But then I remembered that in K1 and K2 there were sith masks and stabilizer masks that looked similar to Revan's.

Sabretooth
06-03-2009, 03:53 AM
Great trailer, but I can't believe how much BioWare is whoring out to the original Star Wars feel just to get non-SW fans in. That Sith Lord dude was a total Vader rip-off, the bounty hunter earlier on a female version of Jango Fett. Like seriously, it's a huge ****ing galaxy, I'd imagine there's some variety in design, especially since Bounty Hunters don't follow a uniform or something.

Pretty cool graphics and cinematickness, but the best thing I liked was the bullet-time effect. The Matrix + Star Wars = Awesome x50.

Rathoris
06-03-2009, 04:35 AM
awesome teaser. It keeps us entertained but at the same time it tells us absolutely nothing... Weak Bioware.... I hope to god they give us some more info during the play session.

Ztalker
06-03-2009, 08:04 AM
Great trailer, but I can't believe how much BioWare is whoring out to the original Star Wars feel just to get non-SW fans in. That Sith Lord dude was a total Vader rip-off, the bounty hunter earlier on a female version of Jango Fett. Like seriously, it's a huge ****ing galaxy, I'd imagine there's some variety in design, especially since Bounty Hunters don't follow a uniform or something.

Pretty cool graphics and cinematickness, but the best thing I liked was the bullet-time effect. The Matrix + Star Wars = Awesome x50.

Q.F.T./Q.F.E.

This will be cool...but why does EVERY bounty hunter have a jetpack and mandalorian-like helmet with antenna?
Like the appearance of a little droid though. I hoped they wouldn't grab an R-2 design from the movies. The droid looks totally Kotor :)

Rinku
06-03-2009, 12:01 PM
WOW!!!! That made my day :D That was probably the most exciting cinematic I have seen for a game. The slow motion, the intense battle...EVERYTHING in this totally makes up for the comic imo. I agree there could have been better music selection but that was just crazy sweet!!!

Only thing is that I was hoping the bounty hunter would have had a more original design; the only way I am fine with the armor is if she was a mandalorian.

OT: To bad they didn't do the Clone Wars movie like this it would have been pretty sweet

Alexrd
06-03-2009, 03:30 PM
Did anyone download it and watch it in full 1280 by 720 HD resolution, yet with 5.1 Surround Sound? It's like a three and a half minute movie!

I did! :thmbup1:

Rathoris
06-03-2009, 03:30 PM
http://video.ign.com/streaming/e3-2009/index.html

showing TOR live in 2 mins. If you wanne see tune in! :)

edit:
Ok it was just a lame 5 min interview. No actual footage from the flash-point they are showing at E3..... *cry*

Prime
06-03-2009, 03:49 PM
The problem isn't with the movie itself, which was great. It's that all these little elements confirms the direction they're taking with this thing, which is a Clone Wars-PT-OT kind of setting. But let's be fair. the Original KOTORs did a lot of the same thing.

And this video is just awesome. How can they come out with something like this and then have something like that **** online comic?

Miltiades
06-03-2009, 04:02 PM
But let's be fair. the Original KOTORs did a lot of the same thing. At least they tried to be different. And I thought they succeeded well in doing so.

Saenjaina
06-03-2009, 05:53 PM
Fantastic trailer. How I wish I could have been there to the live presentation.

Alexrd
06-03-2009, 06:14 PM
OT: To bad they didn't do the Clone Wars movie like this it would have been pretty sweet

Completely agree. It would be a wonderful present to the old Star Wars fans. (like me :))

Saenjaina
06-03-2009, 06:18 PM
But I guess that Clone Wars would also be quite that more expensive then. I take it that they saved some money when making this cinematic with no voice-acting other than that of the narrator. They then didn't even have to focus their animation on lip-sync etc.

Still, I agree with you totally. It would make the Clone Wars quite more interesting to me. Well, one can only hope that there will be more of these cinematics coming in the future. I can settle with that. Oh yea, and in HD of course.

lukeiamyourdad
06-04-2009, 12:10 AM
The problem isn't with the movie itself, which was great. It's that all these little elements confirms the direction they're taking with this thing, which is a Clone Wars-PT-OT kind of setting. Of course, if those Star Destroyers, Tie Fighters, Darth Vader's and such aren't in the game, I won't be complaining. But I'll tell you something: I think they will.

Isn't it...a Star Wars setting?

Seriously, Sith warships in KotOR followed the similar design of a triangular shaped ship with a control tower.
Sith fighters in one of the cinematics acted just like a Tie Fighter swarm with the added fact that it looks like it.
The Ebon Hawk, a very fast freighter that carries the group of heroes? It has a circular shape?
Republic fighters that look like Jedi Starfighters with wings?
Master Vandar, a wise Yoda look-a-like?

KotOR was masterful because it made its world feel like Star Wars. It kept several conventions going and was very successful in combining an engaging storyline in a Star Wars setting. People who knew about Star Wars but not about this time period in particular, felt instantly at home. This is what they're aiming for again.

By the way, why is everyone assuming that Sith Leader is a Darth Vader rip-off? Sure, he looks like him, but is there a bald Sith wearing a breather in the KotOR time?

http://news.gotgame.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/darth-malak.jpg

Impossible I say! :eek:

I would hardly call this cinematic anything approaching "stunning", because it's just a cinematic. It doesn't say jack about the game itself. Therefore, any criticism of the cinematic is as valid as any other opinion. All your doing is saying that since a criticism is a "nitpick", then that somehow affects the truth of the statement.

Honestly, when does a pre-rendred cinematic say exactly what the game is like?
For example, the intro the Empire Total War shows revolutionaries taking over a palace. Do you actually move revolutionaries into the palace? No, but the option of siding with them and taking over a country exists.

The same goes for this. The cinematic is not showcasing the game's features. It is not a gameplay trailer. It is not a description of the classes. It is not an informational video.

A cinematic trailer is like a visit card. It showcases what your game is about, not its actual content or gameplay.
Criticisms against this cinematic in this thread weren't about the quality of the trailer; it was about how it wasn't exactly like how some people envisioned a KotOR experience. Which again, was never the point of a pre-rendered cinematic trailer.
So yes, the criticism seen in this thread is not valid. If this was a gameplay trailer, then anything that was said makes perfect sense. Since this is not...

Trekkies whined because the movie wasn't what the show was.
We are whining because this game isn't what the KOTOR series was.
Now do you see the relationship?

My comment was never directed to anyone in particular, but TriggerGod perfectly understood what I meant.

Complaints made about how it wasn't like the old shows and series were made...the Star Trek movie tried to seek a large audience...which leads to the next point...

Great trailer, but I can't believe how much BioWare is whoring out to the original Star Wars feel just to get non-SW fans in. That Sith Lord dude was a total Vader rip-off, the bounty hunter earlier on a female version of Jango Fett. Like seriously, it's a huge ****ing galaxy, I'd imagine there's some variety in design, especially since Bounty Hunters don't follow a uniform or something.

Honestly, unless you're a billionaire philanthropist, would you accept to work for a project, invest your time and money, into something that will not give you any return?
The Star Trek movie understood this. The franchise was failing hard in the last few years and needed to re-invent itself in order to get a new audience. So they tried to satisfy as many old time fans as possible while gathering a new audience.
The same goes for this. How many KotOR followers are there left? How many will accept the jump from SP to MMO? They have to aim for the larger audience if they want to make a buck out of this.

Remember that you, Star Wars fan, are not John, Jack, Diane and Jody, everyday normal person. People enjoy Star Wars but don't necessarily care for the little details. They will enjoy the epic and somewhat familiar setting TOR gives them without thinking too much about how this or that element is too similar to something they've seen before.

adamqd
06-04-2009, 05:16 AM
I completely understand your points LIAYD :) But people know why their problems with the game are there, we know that certain stylistic choices are made to bring in the non/casual player base... See we aren't Stupid or in denial lol, we just hoped that KotOR was well known enough to make this game recognizable without using a PT palette. I personally hoped for a deeper Old Republic vibe, but this cinematic is by far the greatest thing I've ever seen hehe.

My main problems with peoples arguments...

- Yea, But maybe the Clone Armor was based on this all along?
- It's been 300 years dude, there could of been a massive change in Technology?
- Shut up man, dont like it Leave.

See those points are fine but, You might as well write QQ, stfu to me. I will play and love this game, but why make it at this point in history and play to the KotOR fan base? when stylistically, they could of easily placed it 22 years BBY and it wouldn't look out of place? :)

Tommycat
06-04-2009, 05:33 AM
I will play and love this game, but why make it at this point in history and play to the KotOR fan base? when stylistically, they could of easily placed it 22 years BBY and it wouldn't look out of place? :)

I might be able to answer this... I believe the answer is that by the time of the PT the Sith were already almost completely driven out. It would be like SWG again... Where there shouldn't be the Sith side with so many. Placing it this far in the past opens up the ability to have a ton of Jedi and a ton of Sith.

adamqd
06-04-2009, 06:51 AM
I might be able to answer this... I believe the answer is that by the time of the PT the Sith...
Really? :migraine:
same again, I'm saying Stylistically man, I know the Bloody Sith arent an Army in 22 bby fgs, I'm just using it as an example that they have made no effort to differentiate it from a much later era. again, just so I dont get the same argument again, I'm talking about looks, not plausible high Jedi/Sith population periods or reasons why it can all fit snugly into canon. :)

Tommycat
06-04-2009, 07:12 AM
Well ok. Stylistically there are a bunch of differences that could be artibuted to it being much later...

Kind of like how modern armor is similar in style to samurai armor. But is more effective against modern weapons. Just because it looks similar doesn't mean it acts similar. Heck it could have more tech built in to it.

Honestly the whole KotOR idea of thousands of years in the past is kinda out of whack anyway. 200 years in the past would be fine.

Then again... maybe it just takes a lot of time getting things approved for use. I mean they have a bigger government, getting government approval for things takes a lot of time... Funding has to be in place... Votes in the Galactic Senate. Then people have to figure out which campaign contributors to distribute the contracts to.. I mean They have to bid in development contracts...

TKA-001
06-04-2009, 01:51 PM
Seriously, Sith warships in KotOR followed the similar design of a triangular shaped ship with a control tower.
Having a triangle-shaped warship in space for the purposes of proper firepower distribution is a reasonably basic thing to have in mind when designing such a ship.

Sith fighters in one of the cinematics acted just like a Tie Fighter swarm
Fighters flying around is something that's specific to TIE Fighters?

The Ebon Hawk, a very fast freighter that carries the group of heroes?
Star Wars has had many stories which involve freighters, ships that are fast, and ships that are used by the heroes. So what? And don't bring up the "has a slightly disk-shaped thing on the hull" point because no one would ever have compared the Ebon Hawk to the Falcon if not for the similar engine sounds.

By the way, why is everyone assuming that Sith Leader is a Darth Vader rip-off?
...because it is, maybe?

Sure, he looks like him, but is there a bald Sith wearing a breather in the KotOR time?
Malak didn't wear a breathing apparatus. It was a metallic jaw plate. More to the point, it's more the fact that our Sith Lord friend here in the trailer has a head that's colored and shaped like the unmasked Vader, has an outfit very similar to Vader, and has a mask very similar to Vader's that makes him a ripoff, not simply the concept of a Sith with a mask or other such thing. It is true that the KotOR series did use designs and concepts that were noticeably similar to other eras of the Star Wars universe, but neither games ever shoved them down the viewer's throat as obnoxiously as TOR seems to want to.

Honestly, when does a pre-rendred cinematic say exactly what the game is like? For example, the intro the Empire Total War shows revolutionaries taking over a palace. Do you actually move revolutionaries into the palace? No, but the option of siding with them and taking over a country exists. The same goes for this. The cinematic is not showcasing the game's features. It is not a gameplay trailer. It is not a description of the classes. It is not an informational video.
Am I talking about what the game is like?

Criticisms against this cinematic in this thread weren't about the quality of the trailer; it was about how it wasn't exactly like how some people envisioned a KotOR experience. Which again, was never the point of a pre-rendered cinematic trailer. So yes, the criticism seen in this thread is not valid. If this was a gameplay trailer, then anything that was said makes perfect sense. Since this is not...
I'm not talking about the game. I'm talking about the visual style and designs which they are using, particularly in this trailer. If you think anything I said implied that I was referring to anything other than exactly what I said, then feel free to point these things out.

Lord of Hunger
06-04-2009, 06:20 PM
Malak didn't wear a breathing apparatus. It was a metallic jaw plate. More to the point, it's more the fact that our Sith Lord friend here in the trailer has a head that's colored and shaped like the unmasked Vader, has an outfit very similar to Vader, and has a mask very similar to Vader's that makes him a ripoff, not simply the concept of a Sith with a mask or other such thing. It is true that the KotOR series did use designs and concepts that were noticeably similar to other eras of the Star Wars universe, but neither games ever shoved them down the viewer's throat as obnoxiously as TOR seems to want to.
Um...first of all, how is that mask "very" similar to Vader's? Vader wore a mask that looked sort of like a skull, this is more similar to the Breather and Rebreather oxygen masks found in K1 and TSL. This guy looks much more like Malak than Vader, so I'd be considering this a Malak rip off first. Both happen to have a little bit of the unmasked Vader look, but it is Malak and not this guy who has the metallic voice mind you. Malak is a dude like Vader who was mutilated. This guy is just wearing a badass protective breathing mask and is wearing black armor somewhat more individualist than the other Sith in that battle.

Second, shoving it down the viewers' throats? Are you kidding me? Is George Lucas taking his plot summary for the Clone Wars era and stuffing it into your mouth? 'Cause how do you shove something down someone's throat in a cinematic? It's entertainment! You watch it and enjoy it or you ignore it. No one is forcing you to absorb every detail, that's your doing. LucasArts can put out whatever they feel like, even Luke Skywalker as a rapper if they really felt the comedic urge. :D The idea that they are imposing something on you is frankly ridiculous. You take what you like and like it and ignore what you don't like. Hell feel free to criticize it, but saying that it was imposed? :(

On topic: I have a theory. These Sith are the ones who built Malachor...right? An explanation as to why Revan's armor is so similar to the ones these Sith are using is that he may have found a suit of theirs on Malachor, really liked it, and wore it until the "Capture of Darth Revan". Therefore, the Sith haven't been copying the guy who was creating his own Sith and using the Star Forge to build up against them.

Negative Sun
06-04-2009, 07:13 PM
*Orgasms*

Best teaser ever...

lukeiamyourdad
06-04-2009, 11:36 PM
I completely understand your points LIAYD :) But people know why their problems with the game are there, we know that certain stylistic choices are made to bring in the non/casual player base... See we aren't Stupid or in denial lol, we just hoped that KotOR was well known enough to make this game recognizable without using a PT palette. I personally hoped for a deeper Old Republic vibe, but this cinematic is by far the greatest thing I've ever seen hehe.

My main problems with peoples arguments...

- Yea, But maybe the Clone Armor was based on this all along?
- It's been 300 years dude, there could of been a massive change in Technology?
- Shut up man, dont like it Leave.

See those points are fine but, You might as well write QQ, stfu to me. I will play and love this game, but why make it at this point in history and play to the KotOR fan base? when stylistically, they could of easily placed it 22 years BBY and it wouldn't look out of place? :)


I think there is no such thing as a KotOR vibe. KotOR took a lot of Star Wars conventions and reused it 4000 years in the past in order to have much more freedom in story-telling. When you think about it, KotOR being 4000 years BBY makes little sense when you look at how technology barely evolved in 4 millenniums in a world where scientists and knowledge is plentiful.

As far as fanbase is concerned, the original KotOR came out on the XBox about 6 years ago. KotOR has merely 2 games under its belly, the sequel garnering much less success then its predecessor. It may be a great franchise, but I think it's way too small yet to develop such a fanbase that will carry its conventions forward. This forum is not a good indicator of how the world is like.

Also, I think most complaints about similarity comes from people over exposed to Star Wars. When I browse gametrailers.com quickly, I see few complaints about how it looks a lot like the OT/PT. I think that for a "casual" person, this would just be a Star Wars game, similarities flying way over their heads.

I understand that it can give an OT/PT vibe, I'm not blind (or deaf for that matter, considering music was reused), but I consider it more as re-using known conventions in Star Wars, basic elements recognizable by everyone, rather then trying to make it look like the movie series.

When I think about it, as KotOR and Star Wars fans, we should be able to look beyond obvious similarities to OT/PT and see the hints to the KotOR time. Yes, at first glance, the Sith Leader would look like Vader, but as KotOR fans, bald+face plate = Malak. Look closely to the bounty hunter. Red hair, wrist rocket launchers and what looks like an updated version of the KotOR heavy blaster. It seems to be a homage to both Boba/Jango Fett for the armour, its colouring, its jetpack and the flame thrower and at Mira from TSL for everything else.



Having a triangle-shaped warship in space for the purposes of proper firepower distribution is a reasonably basic thing to have in mind when designing such a ship.

That made no sense. Why is not every warship triangular-shaped then? Why does the Sith warship have exactly that and a protruding control tower right on the back? It is obviously reminiscent of the Imperial Star Destroyers.


Fighters flying around is something that's specific to TIE Fighters?

Keyword: Swarm.
The point is not so much as fighters flying around, but how Sith fighters are used in swarms, similarly to Imperial Tie Fighters.

Star Wars has had many stories which involve freighters, ships that are fast, and ships that are used by the heroes. So what? And don't bring up the "has a slightly disk-shaped thing on the hull" point because no one would ever have compared the Ebon Hawk to the Falcon if not for the similar engine sounds.

Ok...so this very fast freighter that can break the Sith blockade, has a similar hull shape and a turret minigame where you destroy 4 pursuing Sith fighters is not similar to the Millenium Falcon? Furthermore, it's the central ship in the story, carrying the heroes? It has a bird's name?

If you can't see the similarities...I don't know what else to tell you...

...because it is, maybe?

Malak didn't wear a breathing apparatus. It was a metallic jaw plate. More to the point, it's more the fact that our Sith Lord friend here in the trailer has a head that's colored and shaped like the unmasked Vader, has an outfit very similar to Vader, and has a mask very similar to Vader's that makes him a ripoff, not simply the concept of a Sith with a mask or other such thing. It is true that the KotOR series did use designs and concepts that were noticeably similar to other eras of the Star Wars universe, but neither games ever shoved them down the viewer's throat as obnoxiously as TOR seems to want to.

I think Lord of Hunger said it quite well. So that's all.

Am I talking about what the game is like?

No, but you said it wasn't stunning because it says nothing about the game itself. My point is that a cinematic trailer is not supposed to do that.
It's like criticizing Schindler's List for not giving you enough laughs.

I'm not talking about the game. I'm talking about the visual style and designs which they are using, particularly in this trailer. If you think anything I said implied that I was referring to anything other than exactly what I said, then feel free to point these things out.

Nor did I point you out in particular. Only that, since you defended the right to criticize anything and nothing, I try to defend my point that criticizing something in the wrong context gives it much less weight if it doesn't outright show blind bitterness.

Tommycat
06-05-2009, 02:41 AM
Um Malak was a Vader rip off as well.
Sith warships having a similar design... well if you want to talk weapon placement and attack profiles, the arrow head does make sense as it allows maximum firepower concentration to the front of the ship while allowing a slimmer(relatively) profile for return fire. However the tower on the back makes for a big target, and leaves it much more open for rear attack. Ideal shape would be a diamond shape as it allows the central control tower to be placed near mid ship so that there are enough rear guns to defend against a rear attack.

Funny. I remember them even saying that the Ebon Hawk was a direct link to the Millenium Falcon. They even fall into the same pattern for their name. <long time frame> <bird name>

As for the swarm... well that's not really much to go on. The original movies had the swarming to replicate the fighter plane sequences from prior movies.

lukeiamyourdad
06-05-2009, 02:50 AM
Um Malak was a Vader rip off as well.
Sith warships having a similar design... well if you want to talk weapon placement and attack profiles, the arrow head does make sense as it allows maximum firepower concentration to the front of the ship while allowing a slimmer(relatively) profile for return fire. However the tower on the back makes for a big target, and leaves it much more open for rear attack. Ideal shape would be a diamond shape as it allows the central control tower to be placed near mid ship so that there are enough rear guns to defend against a rear attack.

Funny. I remember them even saying that the Ebon Hawk was a direct link to the Millenium Falcon. They even fall into the same pattern for their name. <long time frame> <bird name>

As for the swarm... well that's not really much to go on. The original movies had the swarming to replicate the fighter plane sequences from prior movies.

1-Malak :

Sort of...but doesn't make the guy look less like Malak. If anything, a cross between both him and Vader, but a pure rip-off of the man in black? I don't think so.

2- Triangle shape design:

I understand what in terms of tactics it means, but it's not a point when you make Sith warships look like Imperial ones. If the triangle design was so successful, why was it not adapted to every single ship after the KotOR time? Choosing it to look like it does is a design choice is to pay homage to Star Destroyers, more then an analysis of space fleet tactics.

3- Sith Fighter swarms

Well, I forgot to mention that it follows the basic design of the Tie Fighter: a central pod with wings linked to it. Their color scheme ressembles Tie Fighters too. The swarm look is similar to what Tie Fighters did in opposition to how Rebel Fighters behaved.

Tommycat
06-05-2009, 03:09 AM
1 Yeah just pointing out that even KotOR "borrowed" from the movies.

2 Sith warships are designed for attack. Not very good on defense... But you're right. It seems more like a throw back to the ISD's.

3 Makes sense though.. Kinda like how P38 drivers used to have the lead shooter, and the follower defending his back. It also provides fewer targets for the opposition. You can focus more fire on a target that way. Rebels were more about defensive tactics.

adamqd
06-05-2009, 03:43 AM
This forum is not a good indicator of how the world is like.


The rest of your post was fine but this kind of stuck out a bit lol, Please refrain from making out I have no idea of "How the World is like", and my only knowledge and experiences of life and Star wars are from this Forum, I was a Star Wars fan for 20+ years before i even knew this Forum existed, and followed the Old Republic era (TOTJ) since 1994.

Carry on good sir/ma'am /rant

Hallucination
06-05-2009, 10:58 AM
What LIAYD means is that the vast majority of people who watch the movie aren't fans, they just want to see pew pew laz0r guns in space, whereas most people on these forums would call themselves Star Wars fans.

On a side note, I prefer to think of the MF/EH naming convention being <unrelated word> <bird>, due to the fact that the Ebon Hawk isn't black and the Millenium Falcon isn't 1000 years old. o_Q

Tommycat
06-05-2009, 11:18 AM
On a side note, I prefer to think of the MF/EH naming convention being <unrelated word> <bird>, due to the fact that the Ebon Hawk isn't black and the Millenium Falcon isn't 1000 years old. o_Q
Whoops.. I got my Ebon mixed up with Eon...

lukeiamyourdad
06-05-2009, 02:07 PM
The rest of your post was fine but this kind of stuck out a bit lol, Please refrain from making out I have no idea of "How the World is like", and my only knowledge and experiences of life and Star wars are from this Forum, I was a Star Wars fan for 20+ years before i even knew this Forum existed, and followed the Old Republic era (TOTJ) since 1994.

Carry on good sir/ma'am /rant



What LIAYD means is that the vast majority of people who watch the movie aren't fans, they just want to see pew pew laz0r guns in space, whereas most people on these forums would call themselves Star Wars fans.

I'll add that this forum is heavily biased towards the KotOR world, with dedicated fans and all. My point is that it is not a good indicator of the popularity of the franchise, as such, you cannot know for sure that it is a wise economic choice to please the fans more then the large public of casual folks.
The matter is that, although some KotOR conventions are well known by us, it isn't by the rest of the world.

Miltiades
06-05-2009, 03:15 PM
The wise economic choice is indeed pleasing the larger public. Certain elements need to be recognizable for people to say: "That's Star Wars". But I thought space battles, Force Chokes, blaster bolts, droids, Coruscant, Twi'leks and lightsabers would be enough, next to throwing the Star Wars logo on the box.

An MMO of the caliber that BioWare is trying to make, was going to attract attention anyhow, with an IP like Star Wars backing it up, and showing Jedi and Sith fighting each other, planets being bombarded by lasers and huge space battles overhead. With KotOR, they chose a setting 4,000 years before the movies, because that expanded their freedom in the first place. Now they're going 300 years forward, and all that freedom seems to be lost.

lukeiamyourdad
06-05-2009, 03:50 PM
I fail to see how it is lost. Does some design choices for some ships and some characters looking like something that could be in the OT/PT mean a lack of freedom?

When you look at KotOR, forgetting the fact that it says it's 4000 years in the past, can you make a correct estimation of the time it was set in?

To the first question, it is a big no. They are free to construct their story and own world. They just made some design choices that makes some things look physically similar. It leads to the second question.

What makes you believe KotOR looks so different from the OT/PT? There are so many similarities, listing them would take a while.

I think I said it already. People on this forum are overexposed to Star Wars and KotOR, of course when things look similar, it will always be too similar to you, because you see it all the time. The larger crowd won't detect the similarities like we do, nor will they be bothered.

Miltiades
06-05-2009, 04:39 PM
I fail to see how it is lost. Does some design choices for some ships and some characters looking like something that could be in the OT/PT mean a lack of freedom? Is that a euphemism for saying they basically copied things out of the PT/OT? Because that's the only thing I can conclude from what I've seen. Is it lack of freedom when they have to make designs so similar to the PT/OT because they want to attract a whole variety of people? Yes, I think it is.

When you look at KotOR, forgetting the fact that it says it's 4000 years in the past, can you make a correct estimation of the time it was set in? I'll ask you a question: if you'd put KotOR, TOR and the Prequels next to each other, and you'd have to estimate their place in time, would TOR be placed closer to KotOR or to the prequels?

I think I said it already. People on this forum are overexposed to Star Wars and KotOR, of course when things look similar, it will always be too similar to you, because you see it all the time. The larger crowd won't detect the similarities like we do, nor will they be bothered. I don't think you need to be overexposed to Star Wars to notice the differences. I think anyone whose but a fraction interested in Star Wars, knows how a Clonetrooper or Boba Fett looks like, and that's what they're seeig in TOR as well.

Quanon
06-06-2009, 08:58 AM
knows how a Clonetrooper or Boba Fett looks like, and that's what they're seeig in TOR as well.

And thats why most people will like it, us diehard Kotor fans are less thrilled :)

Though, reading the interview I think we've only seen the tip of the iceberg.
I wouldn't condem the designs straight away by these very few screenshots and trailers.

No doubt the PR department picks out what "sells" best to a large group of gamers. And everybody recognizes a Storm Trooper uniform...

Plus, IIRC, there a point on that timeline thing, you know the little trailers with Hendriksen. One point is dedicated to technologic advances.

Though, it might just be a poor excuse.

lukeiamyourdad
06-08-2009, 10:38 PM
Is that a euphemism for saying they basically copied things out of the PT/OT? Because that's the only thing I can conclude from what I've seen. Is it lack of freedom when they have to make designs so similar to the PT/OT because they want to attract a whole variety of people? Yes, I think it is.

Depends on a certain point of view. It could be view as common restrictions of the medium. Having to be creative within set boundaries. I mean...they are making a Star Wars game...there's only so much freedom...

I'll ask you a question: if you'd put KotOR, TOR and the Prequels next to each other, and you'd have to estimate their place in time, would TOR be placed closer to KotOR or to the prequels?

Somewhere in between, but to be honest, from my perspective, closer to the Prequels. However, that doesn't say much...Just as 4000 years in the past allowed Bioware to do whatever they want, storywise, putting it 300 years after KotOR is perfect to let them more freedom. 300 years is a long time...


I don't think you need to be overexposed to Star Wars to notice the differences. I think anyone whose but a fraction interested in Star Wars, knows how a Clonetrooper or Boba Fett looks like, and that's what they're seeig in TOR as well.

Not really. They see similar designs, but nothing totally like clonetroopers or Boba Fett.
It's no different then seeing Sith warships. They kind of look like a predecessor to the Imperial Star Destroyer, but not quite. The same can be said of the new designs.

Like I said, we're overexposed and things that are very common to us aren't to the common folks.

Miltiades
06-09-2009, 09:52 AM
Depends on a certain point of view. It could be view as common restrictions of the medium. Having to be creative within set boundaries. I mean...they are making a Star Wars game...there's only so much freedom... They had to be creative within the same set of boundaries when they made KotOR. And while you can (rightly) argue that it has a lot of similarities to the movies, it's nothing like TOR.

Somewhere in between, but to be honest, from my perspective, closer to the Prequels. However, that doesn't say much...Just as 4000 years in the past allowed Bioware to do whatever they want, storywise, putting it 300 years after KotOR is perfect to let them more freedom. 300 years is a long time... 300 years is indeed a long time, but 3,500 years is a much longer time, and considering how fast technology seems to evolve in those 300 years, it seems to evolve very in the 3,500 years afterwards. A good example is the Hammerhead-class cruiser: it's used during the Great Sith War, perhaps even earlier. But go 3,000 years into the future, and yes, it's still being used in the New Sith Wars. Which seems strange when everything around it seems to be constantly and rapidly evolving.

Not really. They see similar designs, but nothing totally like clonetroopers or Boba Fett.
It's no different then seeing Sith warships. They kind of look like a predecessor to the Imperial Star Destroyer, but not quite. The same can be said of the new designs. There's nothing worse for me than to see someone say on a forum: "Yes, I can play as a Stormtrooper!". Most people see how much of a resemblance the designs have to the movie designs. Granted, most don't care (it's easy to determine who do and who don't), but I did see complains not only here, but in different places. BioWare did promise a whole variety of armors and clothing that will appeal to different kinds of gamers. At least it's something, but it doesn't change the fact there are Clonetroopers in my game 3,500 years before they are supposed to be.

Like I said, we're overexposed and things that are very common to us aren't to the common folks. Well, if there's one thing you made me realize, it's that in this discussion, I'm in the conservative party. I hate conservatives, so I'm a bit in an awkward position. I wasn't around when KotOR was in production, but I'm sure there were people who couldn't understand the leap in technology from the Tales of the Jedi comics to these KotOR games (although there was already a change in art within the comics in its last issues). I'd like to know if they had a change of heart. So, perhaps, it turns out well, anyway. :)

ironheart
06-09-2009, 08:53 PM
Maybe they're just not creative enough to come up with new ideas for different types of ships. XD

The troopers do bother me though. Especially actually CALLING them troopers. Shouldn't they be like, I dunno, Republic soldiers or something? It just feels kinda like they're saying they're using an older unexplored time line so they can have more freedom but they're going to plug in common modern star wars universe stuff into it anyway.

Ztalker
06-10-2009, 06:49 AM
We've only seen 1 armor set per class at this point.

I suspect this will be the starter armors. People will go like 'Cool I look like Boba Fett' in the character creation screen and play.
Plus, I believe Bioware in their statement they created these pre-alpha characters for the sake of recognisability. And I don't think they're stupid enough to make these armors end-game stuff so you'll have 200 Boba Fetts, 300 Clone Troopers and 400 Revans running around the auction house.

To make an example, World of Warcraft's most legendary hero's their armor isn't available in the game. Only armor with elements of it. You'll never run around like an Arthas. Or Thrall. I think Bioware knows this and won't mess with the Fett/Clone Trooper/Solo look anymore :)

WraithPrince
06-10-2009, 07:58 AM
I'll just have to put my starter armor in the bank then =_=

knight 12167
06-12-2009, 04:01 AM
That has restored my faith in the survial of Kotor