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View Full Version : Executor vs. any other ship from the KotOR


Demongo
06-23-2009, 09:21 AM
If someone didn't know, the Executor is Vader's personal Super Star Destroyer (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Executor)
And it is big..........very big:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/2/20/SW_Executor_01.jpg
So can you find any Cruiser/ Star Destroyer from the Kotor era that could destroy it?
Of course if an entire fllet would attack it at once it would be destroyed, but I am thinking of a one on one "combat":D
So let's clarify things first:
Both ships are working at 100% capacity, without ANY damages. They don't have any aid, except the fighters they can carry inside the Hangar. We are in deep space, no planet/space station/asteroid field is near. So? What do you think? Is it possible to destroy it or not?

EDIT: Oh I don't know what happened to the title. Sorry I meant "Executor vs. any other ship from the KotOR era"

Darth_Yuthura
06-23-2009, 10:11 AM
Why do people make all these comparisons that can't really be compared?

4000 years ago, they had technology that was essentially superior to that from 4000 years in the future. They had personal stealth generators, thermal detonators, disruptors, and touchscreens. Some of these already existed in the original trilogy, but they still hadn't perfected cloaking devices for small ships, nor invented touchscreens in the future. This kind of argument is a paradox of future technology being inferior to past technology because the KOTOR era was created after the original trilogy era.

I would say that there are a very wide range of possibilities when you say 'yes,' but that 'no' means that there are 4000 year's worth of ships that can't rival Executor in their prime.

The Betrayer
06-23-2009, 10:14 AM
Not any one ship.

A fleet of hammerheads with an Inexpungable-class command ship? Maybe.

R2-X2
06-23-2009, 10:27 AM
I don't think so.
Most of all KotOR era ships have up to 100 lasers, but not more, and the Executor has more than 1000. Thats a slight difference...

Ultimate Vader
06-23-2009, 10:34 AM
No ship can.

R2-X2
06-23-2009, 11:09 AM
Well, none of the KotOR era, but not "no ship" at all... think of the Home One or the Lusankya...

Ultimate Vader
06-23-2009, 11:13 AM
^I mean from the KOTOR era. Of course I know there are ships who can destroy Executor in other era.

R2-X2
06-23-2009, 11:43 AM
And I knew what you meant and knew.

Insignia_Enithma
06-23-2009, 12:38 PM
I don't think so.
Most of all KotOR era ships have up to 100 lasers, but not more, and the Executor has more than 1000. Thats a slight difference...

Source?

jonathan7
06-23-2009, 12:54 PM
Source?

Given this was one of the top ship designs of the time, it is clear, given how dwarfed the Leviathan is by the Executor; I can't believe you a seriously questioning a Source on this however...

The Leviathan was a 600 meter-long Interdictor-class Cruiser, capable of wrenching ships out of hyperspace with the use of its four gigantic gravity-well projectors. While primitive by later standards, it was the pinnacle of interdiction technology in its time. It was also equipped with 20 quad laser cannons, a tractor beam projector, four turbolaser batteries and two ion cannons.

Compared with the Executor...

Designed by starship engineer Lira Wessex as a successor to the original Imperial-class Star Destroyer, the Executor, at a monumental 19,000 meters in length, represented the largest traditional warship the galaxy had ever seen by the time of its completion. The Executor bristled with more than 5,000 weapon emplacements, enough firepower to blast any planetary surface to slag in hours, and a military complement capable of annihilating any ground installation.

Indeed given that there is some 4,000 years of technological gain, I would doubt any KotOR era ship would beat an average Star Destroyer, let alone the Executor...

Links;

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_I-class_Star_Destroyer
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Executor
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Leviathan

You can check the sources if you really want, but it would seem to me a matter of logic that a 19 kilometre long ship would have a lot more guns than a 600 meter long one...

Lord of Hunger
06-23-2009, 01:13 PM
It's like saying that the 4000 year old predecessor of the modern Star Destroyer could destroy a modern Super Star Destroyer. Not happening.

The Ebon Hawk, however, might be fast enough to pull off a Rebel Alliance feat and destroy the Bridge. Or the crew gets captured, rescued, and kills whatever Saul Karath is in charge. ;)

Demongo
06-23-2009, 01:23 PM
It's like saying that the 4000 year old predecessor of the modern Star Destroyer could destroy a modern Super Star Destroyer. Not happening.

The Ebon Hawk, however, might be fast enough to pull off a Rebel Alliance feat and destroy the Bridge. Or the crew gets captured, rescued, and kills whatever Saul Karath is in charge. ;)

The first person who thinks about other ships, not just the Leviathan or Hammerhead cruisers:D I said "ship" in the title not "cruiser" or "Star Destroyer".:D A small ship like the Ebon Hawk could destroy the bridge, without being killed. The turbo-lasers are powerful but not fast enough for a ship like the Ebon Hawk. But if the TIE-Fighters come into the fight.............

Ultimate Vader
06-23-2009, 01:26 PM
Then the Ebon Hawk will be destroyed.

Demongo
06-23-2009, 01:28 PM
Then the Ebon Hawk will be destroyed.

Most likely. But maybe................
------>TIE-Fighter:jumpfire:<---------Ebon Hawk
:D

Ultimate Vader
06-23-2009, 01:40 PM
Most likely. But maybe................
------>TIE-Fighter:jumpfire:<---------Ebon Hawk
:D

It's a nest of TIE-Fighters that the Executor has.:migraine: Ebon Hawk vs a nest of tie-fighters = fail .Try again.:smoke2:

Insignia_Enithma
06-23-2009, 02:08 PM
Given this was one of the top ship designs of the time, it is clear, given how dwarfed the Leviathan is by the Executor; I can't believe you a seriously questioning a Source on this however...



Compared with the Executor...



Indeed given that there is some 4,000 years of technological gain, I would doubt any KotOR era ship would beat an average Star Destroyer, let alone the Executor...

Links;

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_I-class_Star_Destroyer
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Executor
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Leviathan

You can check the sources if you really want, but it would seem to me a matter of logic that a 19 kilometre long ship would have a lot more guns than a 600 meter long one...

Ok, first, I know it has more guns. I was asking for a source on the up to 100 guns bit.

Sheesh.

jonathan7
06-23-2009, 02:47 PM
Ok, first, I know it has more guns. I was asking for a source on the up to 100 guns bit.

Sheesh.

Crossed wires, my apologies - just writing "Source ?" made it seem as an aggressive question ;)

Darth_Yuthura
06-23-2009, 03:02 PM
Yeah, a Laviathan-class ship rams the Executer. Resulting in the Executer being destroyed.

That covers the question, which doesn't specify the ship must also survive.

Trench
06-23-2009, 03:21 PM
Yeah, a Laviathan-class ship rams the Executer. Resulting in the Executer being destroyed.

That covers the question, which doesn't specify the ship must also survive.

That's a... bold statement. I'm going to have to go with the Ebon Hawk. With Carth and Bastila at the controls, and Revan manning the turret, they could destroy the bridge, or wreak havoc from the inside.

R2-X2
06-23-2009, 03:45 PM
The Executor has Deflector shields, which also work against ramming and projectiles.

Source? No direct source. Counting all points laser bolts were shot from at the destroying of Taris. Thats less than 100. 0_0

Insignia_Enithma
06-23-2009, 05:50 PM
The Executor has Deflector shields, which also work against ramming and projectiles.

No direct source. Counting all points laser bolts were shot from at the destroying of Taris. Thats less than 100. 0_0

DId you really count all of the lazer bolts :raise:

Darth_Yuthura
06-23-2009, 05:57 PM
How do you come to <100 when the ship didn't fire all its lasers during those scenes?

How can you be sure of Executer's compliment? Maybe the technical manuals were wrong. I certainly don't remember seeing a dozen laser points at any point on Executer in TESB or ROTJ. Maybe the lasers on Laviathan were ten times as powerful as those on Executer?

The point was that you can't really compare Executer to a 4000 year old ship of any kind.

Demongo
06-23-2009, 05:58 PM
I'm not sure if the Leviathan has 100 guns:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/f/fc/Leviathan-blast-Taris.jpg
That's not too many.

mattig89ch
07-02-2009, 11:58 AM
unless a ship managed to lower the executor's deflectors, then ram it, no i don't think any ship from the KOTOR era could take out the executor.

Fredi
07-02-2009, 02:30 PM
Dude, there's no comparison, it's impossible.

Pikmin
07-03-2009, 03:13 PM
Either the Leviathan or The Ravager.

Ping
07-04-2009, 12:28 PM
How do you come to <100 when the ship didn't fire all its lasers during those scenes?

How can you be sure of Executer's compliment? Maybe the technical manuals were wrong. I certainly don't remember seeing a dozen laser points at any point on Executer in TESB or ROTJ. Maybe the lasers on Laviathan were ten times as powerful as those on Executer?

The point was that you can't really compare Executer to a 4000 year old ship of any kind.

Seriously, just because you don't like the more modern SW capital ships doesn't mean they're worse than the old ones. And if the technical manuals you're referring to are official sources, no matter how much you don't like them, they're official, so you can't really say that they're wrong, as they are canon sources.

Executor would definitely pwn any KOTOR ship. No question about it. I mean, it makes the Leviathan look like a starfighter. I can't help but wonder what would happen if we paired up the Executor with the Lusankya. That would make some major destruction...

Darth Milenko
07-04-2009, 07:23 PM
the Star Forge or the Ravager. the Ravager is a MAJOR maybe, but the Star Forge wouls be the closest to ever destroying it. the only reason i'm saying this is because it is said that Capital Ships could easily move between it's gaps. and it could create an infinite amout of droids and ships. therefore making it "the creator". "the creator" would be able to summon any ships it creates to destroy Vader's ship.

Ping
07-04-2009, 09:39 PM
the Star Forge or the Ravager. the Ravager is a MAJOR maybe, but the Star Forge wouls be the closest to ever destroying it. the only reason i'm saying this is because it is said that Capital Ships could easily move between it's gaps. and it could create an infinite amout of droids and ships. therefore making it "the creator". "the creator" would be able to summon any ships it creates to destroy Vader's ship.

I kind of doubt the Ravager would stand up to the Executor. I mean, it's already damaged to start with it, so I'd put my money on the Executor. Also, the Star Forge is more of a superweapon than a capital ship, but if the Executor rammed the Star Forge, it might win.

Fredi
07-04-2009, 09:56 PM
Yeah and the Star Forge is not a ship, it's a Space-based factory.

ForeverNight
07-05-2009, 03:06 AM
Anything from the KotOR Era?

Not a chance.

Not only does the Executor have 4000 years worth of innovations to it, but the sheer size of the thing and the weapons batteries... Well, 5000 turbolasers is a lot of energy to direct onto a single target. Now, even assuming that only 20% of the shots hit -they're shooting like the Stormtroopers in the movies- that's 1000 bolts of energy, concentrated onto shields that are vastly outdated.

That's in a straight up 1 vs. 1 with both hypeing into the system at the same time.

However, if the Ebon Hawk or another like ship manages to get within the shields -much like in Solo Command when the pilot manages to get a TIE inside a SSD's shields and starts destroying it. Or if a pair of fighters manage to get in the superstructure of the Executor a la Wraith Squadron than the Executor is toast.

Likely? Less than a Snowball surviving in hell for a week. Possible? Yeah.

Now, let's even the odds, put in that fleet that was mentioned earlier.

Still, the Executor is going to win. Why? 4000 years of innovations and inventions and devices that were never even thought of in the KotOR era. So, asuming that they get the drop in on the Executor and pound it for a while, the Executor is going to win because it: A) Has 5000+ turbolasers to bear on anyship in the fleet. B) Huge TIE wing, including Bombers, Interceptor and Fighters. Even Defenders if you get lucky. And, C) It has powerful shields -unless the generator is destroyed and stray A-Wing hits the bridge... which, somehow, results in the ship's death... somehow. Never quite understood how.

Anyway, this question is like asking: "Can the Wright Flyer engage in Air to Air Combat with a F-22 Raptor and win?

Like hell it will. The F-22 will see it and destroy it before the Flyer even get's and idea where it is.

I imagine that much the same would occur when the Executor and a KotOR Era ship meet...

My 2 cents...

Demongo
07-05-2009, 03:45 AM
the Star Forge or the Ravager

Ravager, would be destroyed in seconds. See ForeverNight's points.^^^^^^

Did you read the poll question carefully?

Do you think that a ship from the KotOR era could destroy the Executor?
The Star Forge is not a ship. But it could destroy the Executor:xp:

kingofsquid
07-19-2009, 07:48 PM
1. The Ravager is held together by Nihilius. It cannot be destroyed until he is dead.
2. The Hawk could stand up to TIEs, even a fleet. It is invincible (at least when I am shooting) and could easily pull an A-Wing on te bridge.

purifier
07-31-2009, 02:33 PM
Can't say for sure, might be an even match. Like to see it though just for s**ts and giggles.

ForeverNight
08-04-2009, 07:08 PM
1. The Ravager is held together by Nihilius. It cannot be destroyed until he is dead.
2. The Hawk could stand up to TIEs, even a fleet. It is invincible (at least when I am shooting) and could easily pull an A-Wing on te bridge.

Really?

You can shoot down 144 TIE's and 200 Misc. Combat support ships? Before they even get a shot or two in???

Impressive.

No. It's a physical impossibility for a ship such as the Ebon Hawk -which while it may have been very fast in the KotOR Era I imagine that 4000+ years of innovations have rendered it useless- to dodge all the energy and weaponry that the Executor and it's supporting ships will be throwing at it.

Purifier: See my points if you're not convinced that the Executor would win, other than that it would be neat to watch... in a vaguely horrified way....

Master Shake
08-04-2009, 10:09 PM
Really?

You can shoot down 144 TIE's and 200 Misc. Combat support ships? Before they even get a shot or two in???

Impressive.

No. It's a physical impossibility for a ship such as the Ebon Hawk -which while it may have been very fast in the KotOR Era I imagine that 4000+ years of innovations have rendered it useless- to dodge all the energy and weaponry that the Executor and it's supporting ships will be throwing at it.

Purifier: See my points if you're not convinced that the Executor would win, other than that it would be neat to watch... in a vaguely horrified way....
This guy's got the right idea.

Kind of like seeing a pitbull take on a chihuahua.

TKA-001
08-08-2009, 11:07 PM
4000 years ago, they had technology that was essentially superior to that from 4000 years in the future.
Balderdash.

They had personal stealth generators
And later eras didn't? Off the top of my head, I can recall that Imperial saboteurs (seen in Jedi Academy), the Imperial Remnant's Shadowtroopers (seen in Jedi Outcast), and the Empire's Blackhole stormtroopers (seen in The Force Unleashed X-Box 360/PS3 versions) all possess technology more or less equivalent to the capabilities of personal stealth technology seen in the KOTOR games.

thermal detonators
You might not remember this, but Leia threatened Jabba the Hutt with a thermal detonator in Episode 6, and thermal detonators have appeared in dozens of sources set during the years before and during the reign of the Empire.

disruptors
And later eras didn't? Disruptors were used by Sith officers during the New Sith Wars (source: Darth Bane: Path of Destruction), bounty hunters and other criminals regularly used disruptor rifles (sources: Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy), and disruptors were a standard infantry weapon used by Zann Consortium foot soldiers (source: Empire at War - Fources of Corruption).

and touchscreens.
Off the top of my head I can recall pilot droids on the Invisible Hand using touchscreens on the bridge in Episode III. Besides, why does whether touchscreens are used make any difference?

Some of these already existed in the original trilogy
...or all of them.

but they still hadn't perfected cloaking devices for small ships
Darth Maul's personal ship had a functional cloaking device (reference: Episode I Visual Dictionary). The starship used by Darth Vader's apprentice did as well (reference: The Force Unleashed). Later, the Empire developed several projects based around cloaking devices, one of which successfully mass-produced cloak-capable TIE starfighters (reference: Rebel Assault II - The Hidden Empire). The Empire also build two Executor-class Star Dreadnaughts with cloaking devices (references: Rebel Assault II - The Hidden Empire, Rogue Squadron III - Rebel Strike). Even the Zann Consortium criminal empire was able to field starships with cloaking capabilities (source: Empire at War - Forces of Corruption). Cloaking devices have been specified as running on stygium crystals, which were evidently only found on the planet Aeten II. The planet's stores of these crystals were neigh-completely depleted by the time the Empire rose, so that explains the rarity of cloaking devices during that era.

Yeah, a Laviathan-class ship rams the Executer. Resulting in the Executer being destroyed.
I hope that this is a jest of some kind. In case it isn't, though, bull****. During the Siege of Yavin after the first Death Star's destruction, three Imperial Star Destroyers made a hyperspace miscalculation that caused them to ram into the Executor at a faster-than-light speed. They exploded against the behemoth's shields and did no significant damage (source: Race for Survival).

How can you be sure of Executer's compliment?
By looking at the most up to date canonical sources which details the vessel's stats.

Maybe the technical manuals were wrong.
No, I'm pretty sure you just don't have any actual evidence to support your conclusion(s).

I certainly don't remember seeing a dozen laser points at any point on Executer in TESB or ROTJ.
"We don't see thousands of guns on the Executor in the movies, so they can't exist." You know what that sounds like? That sounds like the minimalist Traviss fans who insist that because the movies don't show thousands of Star Destroyers or quintillions of Separatist battle droids or quadrillions of clone troopers, then they can't possibly exist, no matter how silly that would be.

Maybe the lasers on Laviathan were ten times as powerful as those on Executer?
What reason do we have to believe or even consider this?

The point was that you can't really compare Executer to a 4000 year old ship of any kind.
You're making this far more complicated than it needs to be.

For the sake of simplicity, we can surmise for the time being that firepower levels of Old Republic-era starships are more or less the same as that of later eras, because we have no particular reason to believe otherwise; The only significant difference between technology in the two eras is that as we go further forward in the timeline, starships and other vehicles become larger and more overall powerful in design. Once that is established, the only thing we need to look at is the armament of the two vessels. The Interdictor-class? Five medium turbolasers and six point-defense lasers (source: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide). The Executor-class? 4,000 turbolaser cannons, not counting other weapon emplacements (source:Starship Battles Preview 1 on Wizards.com).

The entire premise of this thread is ridiculous. It's no bloody contest. The Executor could ram the Leviathan (or, indeed, any vessel from the KOTOR era) and destroy it without even needing to fire a shot.

So can you find any Cruiser/ Star Destroyer from the Kotor era that could destroy it?
No such vessels exist in the canon. Even the most powerful vessel known to be used by the Sith during and after the Jedi Civil War is dwarfed in size and firepower dozens of times over by the Empire's Imperial-class Star Destroyer, which is a dime a dozen as far as the Empire is concerned. This I learned with no more than five minutes of research on Wookieepedia. This isn't the sort of question where you need the consensus of an entire forum community to figure out the answer.

Revan 411
08-09-2009, 04:26 AM
The Executor is a cool ship and all, but I prefer Darth Nihilus's ship more. It just feels more of a living creature instead of a ship. It has been in battle before, and instead of technology that's keeping the ship intact, its the force. And as Vader says:

''The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.''

However, what is curious is that if the Exile and the Mandalorions still planted those minds but never faced Nihlius, would the ship still be in operation? Because, I've read on this topic before and somebody said that Nihlius needs to be destroyed in order to blow up his ship.

Miltiades
08-09-2009, 08:26 AM
Nope. The Executor is massive, and has a 4,000 years lead in technology to anything KotOR.

The Ravager's barely holding it together, and even if it was brand new, it couldn't hold up against the Executor. The Ravager itself isn't that dangerous, it's who's in there that is.

TKA-001
08-09-2009, 08:48 AM
And as Vader says:

''The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.''
Interesting that you mention that, when no EU source, canon or not, has ever shown the Force used to do anything more powerful than the destruction of all life on a planet. What Vader was saying was that Tarkin's overall philosophy for ruling the Empire through fear of force (see Tarkin Doctrine) was flawed, not that use of the Force is superior to technology in every instance.

However, what is curious is that if the Exile and the Mandalorions still planted those minds but never faced Nihlius, would the ship still be in operation? Because, I've read on this topic before and somebody said that Nihlius needs to be destroyed in order to blow up his ship.
No, Nihilus would very much be dead and so would his ship if they just set the bombs off and left. If Nihilus can survive the explosions of his ship being ripped apart, than slashing at his face with a lightsaber isn't going to do any good. Nihilus' power is only keeping the ship structurally intact; He isn't feeding energy into the ship's shield generators, for instance. The reason the Exile and the gang went in to kill Nihilus personally was probably because she/he wanted to make sure that he wouldn't escape.

AntonioMotti
07-05-2010, 10:44 PM
Executor I-class Star Dreadnought
Length: 19000 m
Speed: 32 MGLT
Acceleration: 4 MGLT/s
Maneuverability: 1 DPF
Hyperdrive: Class 2.0
Shielding: 96000 SBD
Hull: 45712 RU
Armament 1: 2000 turreted heavy turbolaser cannons
Armament 2: 2000 turreted turbolaser cannons
Armament 3: 250 turreted heavy turboion cannons
Armament 4: 500 turreted light laser cannons
Armament 5: 250 (30) heavy concussion missile launchers
Armament 6: 40 tractor beam projectors
Complement 1: 720 TIE Fighter
Complement 2: 720 TIE Interceptors
Complement 3: 288 TIE Bombers
Complement 4: 36 TIE Advanced
Complement 5: 36 TIE Advanced
Complement 6: 60 Lambda-class T-4c Shuttles
Complement 7: 60 Delta-class DX-9a Transports
Complement 8: 48 Sentinel-class Landing Craft Mark IIs
Complement 9: 32 Gamma-class ATR-6 Assault Transports

there is not competitor, only Death Star can beat star dreadnought 1vs1

Roller123
07-05-2010, 11:29 PM
a single fighter can destroy the Executor, Deathstar or whatever. Armed with a number of nuclear missiles. One to break the shield. One to annihilate the ship. Even North Korea could destroy a Death Star. Sorry Luke. :lol:

AntonioMotti
07-06-2010, 06:42 AM
a single fighter can destroy the Executor, Deathstar or whatever. Armed with a number of nuclear missiles. One to break the shield. One to annihilate the ship. Even North Korea could destroy a Death Star. Sorry Luke. :lol:

yea yea we saw it
but if i remember there is a question if there is spaceship what can beat star dreadnought in normal fight not sabotage
if you detonate any explosive in munition store you can destroy any ship am i right ?
but Demongo is asking a question of normal victory over executor

hope you understand me using google translator coz im bit lazy ^^

Roller123
07-06-2010, 09:24 AM
If a scout patrol can be armed with rockets, it can destroy a dreadnought. The total destruction radius of a 50Mt bomb was 35km. Multiple times the size of one Star Dreadnought. And that was 1961, barbarian technology.

If it cant - loadup scout with stuff, plot suicide course, eject pilot, same result. The Empire sure had nuclear tech right? Its Hollywood man, dont put more thought into it than needed. lal/

AntonioMotti
07-06-2010, 11:05 AM
ok i am failed
my english is too poor for this kind of conversation
-you can launch missile but it will not get through shield deflector you have to overload shield or destroy it physically i dont know who would like to make suicide attack ,perhaps kamikaze ^^
-and we forgot on antimissile system
-be sure your scout patrol craft would fail, just one volley from cannons and fighters shouldn't left hangar
-in space is 35 km or 19 km nothing so your ultra mega powerful nuclear missile is like one drop in ocean
-and do you think that civilization who can travel through universe could let destroy them by one pitiful rocket from one small ship?
-dont you think that you are a bit overconfident? ou me too ^^

i know this is just film, game or other ****, but you can let us dreaming

Roller123
07-07-2010, 11:21 AM
Funny, if i remember it correctly, a suicide fighter was exactly the way that big Star Dreadnought was destroyed in Episode 6.

ForeverNight
07-07-2010, 12:52 PM
Alright: The shields on a ship have to be incredibly strong. Why? These things engage in combat against many vessels. The Executor was designed to face off against more than one vessel. Also, I don't know if you know this or not but a Proton Torpedo IS a nuclear warhead. (Source: Ultimate Cross-Sections: Star Wars Original Trilogy) The executor is not stopped by one, it is stopped by MANY at the SAME time in the SAME position. Read X-Wing: Bacta War for a good description of how the Lusyanka (Sp?) was defeated and then remember that it surrendered to prevent total destruction and there were tons of other factors at work.

Short Answer: Learn Star Wars more, Executor is the most powerful ship in the galaxy (Exception: Death Star) in its time frame, period.

Roller123
07-07-2010, 02:19 PM
So SW fleets DID employ nuclear missiles. Well this makes arguing so much easier then. Im sure you know the first thing George Lucas said at the very first press conference about Starwars. Seriously, who wants an Executor be destroyed by a single fighter like Ebon Hawk, just like that. The Executor was designed to be cool, not survivable. It dies then the writer decides. The way it was destroyed in Ep6 was ridiculous. Nothing in the movies suggests the Executor would survive a missile attack. It doesnt even have an antimissile protection. At least the Ep4 Deathstar doesnt, else all those fighters would be toast.

1 Ebon Hawk + 1 missile = one dead Executor, shield or no shield. with such a huge detonation radius, the EB wouldnt even need to go close range. Hyperjump, lauch bomb, hyperjump away and target is dead. Futuristic wars will be so entertaining. :up:

TKA-001
07-07-2010, 02:55 PM
Executor is the most powerful ship in the galaxy (Exception: Death Star) in its time frame, period.
I don't mean to nitpick, but the Eclipse is arguably at least as powerful, not counting its superlaser.

So SW fleets DID employ nuclear missiles.
The only notable use of nukes in canon was by Mandalorians circa 4,000 BBY, which they used to destroy cities on poorly-defended planets. Destruction of cities can easily be accomplished with turbolaser bombardment.

The Executor was designed to be cool, not survivable. It dies then the writer decides.
Since when is this a discussion about how the plot was written, and not about the capability of the starships being discussed?

The way it was destroyed in Ep6 was ridiculous.
How's that? It lost its shields after the rebel fleet beat the **** out of it (you may have missed this, but at some point during the Battle of Endor, Ackbar is heard saying "Concentrate all fire on that Super Star Destroyer), and the loss of its bridge caused it to lose control of navigation.

Nothing in the movies suggests the Executor would survive a missile attack.
Except common sense. Besides, we don't have only the movies at our disposal.

It doesnt even have an antimissile protection.
Since ****ing when? Executor's canon stats (source: "Starship Battles Preview 1 on Wizards.com") include 500 point-defense laser cannons.

At least the Ep4 Deathstar doesnt, else all those fighters would be toast.
As detailed in the movie, its defenses were designed against large fleets of heavy capital ships, which is the only method a person without the plans to the thing would think of to attack the thing with. Besides, since the first Death Star carried 7,000 TIEs, it frankly doesn't need fast-targeting guns. The only reason the 30 Rebels in ANH stood a chance was Tarkin's hubris, such that he thought launching an overwhelming number of fighters was unnecessary to prevent them from causing any real damage.

1 Ebon Hawk + 1 missile = one dead Executor, shield or no shield. with such a huge detonation radius, the EB wouldnt even need to go close range. Hyperjump, lauch bomb, hyperjump away and target is dead. Futuristic wars will be so entertaining.
I would suggest you reread ForeverNight's post. Furthermore, this ridiculous position of yours is indirectly addressed by the writings of some guy at this web page here (http://stardestroyer.net/tlc/Power/index.html), who did detailed analysis on the firepower used in Star Wars energy weaponry (much of it, in fact, is concluded based on what we see in the movies). It's a lot of scientific stuff that frankly goes over my head, and even though I'm sure you have enough time on your hands to read it, you don't need to; suffice to say, turbolasers are really ****ing powerful, therefore shields that are built to withstand them are also really ****ing powerful. As such, there is sufficient reason nuclear bombs are not really used much in Star Wars.

Roller123
07-07-2010, 07:59 PM
Since when is this a discussion about how the plot was written
It isnt. Therefore just because the Executor exists doesnt prove that it is sustainable, which obviously has nothing to do with its capabilities. The primary reason it exists is story, not capabilities. Same applies for the Deathstar obviously. These are not real ships... i hope everyone understands that and we stop using arguments such as:

Since ****ing when? Executor's canon stats (source: "Starship Battles Preview 1 on Wizards.com") include 500 point-defense laser cannons.
500 guns to cover apr. 2*19length*5width/500guns= 1 gun per 380000 m^2. Thats nothing. But sounds nice.

It's a lot of scientific stuff
Interesting article, thanks. That guy is looking at a picture which was designed to look cool, and analizes it, ok .. But then he just assumes multiple numbers being same as on Earth/current knowledge (for example asteroid density, and laser influence on them) and mixes it with some magic laserZ. Can stop reading right here. Its even less than making numbers out of the thin air, its just rubbish. Ok i say the Ebon Hawk uses X-material as structure and GigaLaser to shoot things. X-material is able to withstand any shot from Starwars universe. GigaLaser is able to penetrate shields and hull of any Starwars vessel. Therefore Calo Nord is able to destroy The Executor singlehandely. How are you gonna dispute that. You cant. Because everything is made up. The only known common ground to compare is reality (and here im doing nothing different than that article guy, borrowing numbers from reality to make some ridiculous "analysis" ). And reality states that a nuke is gonna destroy the Executor. And nothing so far suggests otherwise short of wild imagination.


How's that? It lost its shields after the rebel fleet beat the **** out of it (you may have missed this, but at some point during the Battle of Endor, Ackbar is heard saying "Concentrate all fire on that Super Star Destroyer), and the loss of its bridge caused it to lose control of navigation.
Thats just crazytalk. Disabled ships do not suddenly navigate into the next Deathstar. Not to speak about not having a backup control room.

AntonioMotti
07-07-2010, 10:15 PM
How's that? It lost its shields after the rebel fleet beat the **** out of it (you may have missed this, but at some point during the Battle of Endor, Ackbar is heard saying "Concentrate all fire on that Super Star Destroyer), and the loss of its bridge caused it to lose control of navigation.

Thats just crazytalk. Disabled ships do not suddenly navigate into the next Deathstar. Not to speak about not having a backup control room.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGMvadAFqLQ&feature=related
6:15

and executor headed on Death Star only because George Lucas wanted to
/or film director


500 guns to cover apr. 2*19length*5width/500guns= 1 gun per 380000 m^2. Thats nothing. But sounds nice.

if you place them strategically with use of radar detection you can cover large space
of course they are not impenetrable but can save you from most of incoming missiles

TKA-001
07-07-2010, 11:36 PM
These are not real ships... i hope everyone understands that and we stop using arguments such as:
Sorry, but if you're going to debate about the Star Wars canon... You're going to have to accept canon sources as legitimate evidence to cite.

Interesting article, thanks. That guy is looking at a picture which was designed to look cool, and analizes it, ok .. But then he just assumes multiple numbers being same as on Earth/current knowledge (for example asteroid density, and laser influence on them) and mixes it with some magic laserZ. Can stop reading right here. Its even less than making numbers out of the thin air, its just rubbish.
It isn't rubbish, the guy's a ****ing engineer. He knows what he's talking about, and he uses (for example) the strength of earth materials as a tool to estimate a lower limit (do you mean to tell me that starships in Star Wars are made of materials weaker than what is here on Earth?). If you'd like to tell me how he's actually wrong instead of just dismissing it for being too complicated, let me know.

Ok i say the Ebon Hawk uses X-material as structure and GigaLaser to shoot things. X-material is able to withstand any shot from Starwars universe. GigaLaser is able to penetrate shields and hull of any Starwars vessel. Therefore Calo Nord is able to destroy The Executor singlehandely. How are you gonna dispute that. You cant. Because everything is made up. The only known common ground to compare is reality (and here im doing nothing different than that article guy, borrowing numbers from reality to make some ridiculous "analysis" ).
Yes, you are doing something completely different, because he's using actual science that we know of in order to form a hypothesis, while you're just goofing around without actually looking at it.

And reality states that a nuke is gonna destroy the Executor. And nothing so far suggests otherwise short of wild imagination.
Read above, plz. We aren't arguing about reality.

DarthJacen
07-08-2010, 02:13 AM
If someone didn't know, the Executor is Vader's personal Super Star Destroyer (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Executor)
And it is big..........very big:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/2/20/SW_Executor_01.jpg
So can you find any Cruiser/ Star Destroyer from the Kotor era that could destroy it?
Of course if an entire fllet would attack it at once it would be destroyed, but I am thinking of a one on one "combat":D
So let's clarify things first:
Both ships are working at 100% capacity, without ANY damages. They don't have any aid, except the fighters they can carry inside the Hangar. We are in deep space, no planet/space station/asteroid field is near. So? What do you think? Is it possible to destroy it or not?

EDIT: Oh I don't know what happened to the title. Sorry I meant "Executor vs. any other ship from the KotOR era"

Haha, an A-wing took down the Executor by crashing into the bridge after the shield generators were destroyed, but the ship would destroy any ship of capital size.

ForeverNight
07-08-2010, 02:19 AM
Thanks for those posts TKA, gonna have to read over that article now.

Basically, just accept it, Nukes aren't all powerful. If we assume that a Proton Torpedo has an average yield of ~10 megatons (Models vary from the Kiloton to Gigaton range, so I just took a number out of the air) and we know that it takes hundreds of proton torpedoes to take down the shields of the Lusankya. So, we can theorize that it takes the equivalent of 1000 megatons OR MORE to lower the shields of an SSD.

Anyway, here's a number for the raw energy used in the shields of the SSD:

Its shields handled much of the power generated—an amount equivalent to the total power of a medium star (3.8 × 1026 W)

source (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Executor-class_Star_Dreadnought)

Give up, nothing produces that kind of power that we can develop and certainly not able to be made in the KotOR era. Your fantasy about a single nuke destroying it are just that, fantasy, within a fantasy.

@TKA: Bah, EU matters not :xp:

Edit: Reread TKA's points above Darth Jacen.

jonathan7
07-08-2010, 07:54 AM
Thanks for those posts TKA, gonna have to read over that article now.

Basically, just accept it, Nukes aren't all powerful. If we assume that a Proton Torpedo has an average yield of ~10 megatons (Models vary from the Kiloton to Gigaton range, so I just took a number out of the air) and we know that it takes hundreds of proton torpedoes to take down the shields of the Lusankya. So, we can theorize that it takes the equivalent of 1000 megatons OR MORE to lower the shields of an SSD.

Given the level of technical advancement in the Star Wars univierse, personally I'd assume that a Nuclear Weapon would not be effective against the Executor or other Star Wars ships considering that in Universe by the time of the Films they had been space travelling for 20,000 standard years, they are well beyond our own current technical advancement. All that is to say, it would be my opinion in Universe that a nuclear weapon would be about as effective as throwing a rock at a tank....

ForeverNight
07-08-2010, 01:27 PM
hence my accent on MORE, we just have a lower range and I couldn't remember if Lusankya was operating at 100% efficiency or not. here's a host of variables and the 1000 megatons is a very lower limit. Since we know how much energy goes into the shields we can determine if we have enough time how much energy it takes to destroy the Executor. Frankly, I don't want to spend the time doing that, but I figured that it's gonna take a hell of a lot of energy, basically this thing could probably go through a small star and remain intact.

As for your analogy, if you're using current day nukes, than you're most likely correct. However, they're likely to have developed higher yield warheads or more effect shaped charges. Both could change that analogy.

DarthJacen
07-08-2010, 07:43 PM
My response is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETFNSVNQqfE One A-wing takes out the shield tower, another crashes into the bridge, and bam, she's done. What a weakness!

ForeverNight
07-09-2010, 12:06 AM
After being pounded for presumably hours by the Rebellion Fleet. ;)

Also, those domes were never positively identified as Shield Domes, just domes. iirc they were once identified as Sensor Domes, but I can't remember for sure.

AntonioMotti
07-09-2010, 10:26 AM
After being pounded for presumably hours by the Rebellion Fleet. ;)

Also, those domes were never positively identified as Shield Domes, just domes. iirc they were once identified as Sensor Domes, but I can't remember for sure.

yea you are right look what i found http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Sensors/Sensor2.html perhaps i didnt had time to read it ^^

Feagildin
07-09-2010, 01:14 PM
One A-wing takes out the shield tower, another crashes into the bridge, and bam, she's done. What a weakness!



That's two ships. The problem is that no single ship could do that.

ForeverNight
07-09-2010, 03:04 PM
Thanks for verifying Antonio.

Feagildin: :lol:

DarthJacen
07-09-2010, 04:39 PM
Excuse me, you're right, but in Star Wars Galaxies: Jump to Lightspeed they are labeled as shield towers. That is not a reliable source, though. Plus, the line in the movie right afterwards is Imperial Officer to Admiral Piett: "Sir, we've lost our Bridge Deflector Shields!"

ForeverNight
07-10-2010, 12:11 AM
Correlation does not imply causation :xp: to be totally honest, I always thought that until I read the article that Antonio linked to, well I got to it from an article linked to earlier. So, believe me, you're not alone. For 15 years, I've always thought that

RedHawke
07-11-2010, 08:42 AM
Given the level of technical advancement in the Star Wars univierse, personally I'd assume that a Nuclear Weapon would not be effective against the Executor or other Star Wars ships considering that in Universe by the time of the Films they had been space travelling for 20,000 standard years, they are well beyond our own current technical advancement. All that is to say, it would be my opinion in Universe that a nuclear weapon would be about as effective as throwing a rock at a tank....
Actually, atomic weapons do have an effect on large capital ships in Star Wars, even shielded ones, though they usually have to be employed in salvo's.

Against a Star Dreadnought type ship any spread of less than a couple hundred warheads likely would only be an irritant. Toss a few thousand and you can do some serious damage.

Though the amount of fire you would be taking to get your fleet of missile cruisers into broadside with the SD would maybe give you one salvo/shot before the cruisers would be battered apart by the Star Dreadnoughts armaments.

Just my :twocents: on Nukes in Star Wars. ;)

jonathan7
07-11-2010, 10:17 AM
Actually, atomic weapons do have an effect on large capital ships in Star Wars, even shielded ones, though they usually have to be employed in salvo's.

Against a Star Dreadnought type ship any spread of less than a couple hundred warheads likely would only be an irritant. Toss a few thousand and you can do some serious damage.

Though the amount of fire you would be taking to get your fleet of missile cruisers into broadside with the SD would maybe give you one salvo/shot before the cruisers would be battered apart by the Star Dreadnoughts armaments.

Just my :twocents: on Nukes in Star Wars. ;)

I was more meaning our current Nuclear devices rather than any in universe Nuclear devices; obviously given technological advancements the yield of nuclear devices in the SW universe would be substantially higher than anything we have. Though given the obvious side effects of nuclear weapons you'd of thought unless you wanted to obliterate an entire planet permanently that they would only be used in space...

Darth_Calo
07-11-2010, 11:27 PM
to be blunt, the Executor would chew up and spit out the Hammerheads, and all the other capital ships the Sith and Republic forces have to offer; even the Star Forge would tremble beneath the SuperLaser. In short: it would be the beat down of all beat downs. Something in the vein of the scene in Family Guy Presents: Something Something Something Darkside, when, after Dak says he feels like he can take on the whole empire himself, he attempts to, and is swatted out of the sky like a cat catching a bird. not even an irritant. more like a minor inconvenience. Even while the Star Forge is not a ship, it is part of the KoTOR Era, and hence, in my opinion, includable in this. it would create a huge fleet, but it would be subsequently rammed into oblivion by the executor. the fleet would then proceed to be picked off, probably 5-10 ships at a time. boom. boom. boom. no contest. Vader would be pleased.

Addendum: perhaps, if The Sith and Republic set aside their differences (HAHAHA), they would be able to put a dent in it; but the Star Forge would need to be working at nearly 400% of projected capacity, churnning out ships until the minute it was obliterated by the Executor.

As far as the technolgy debate, if you look at the technology of Star Wars, it gets less complex as time goes on. What? Yes. A giant sphere with a glaring flaw? that is certainly less advanced than an automated army made of battle droids. A Twin-Ion-Engine Fighter that is used as cannon fodder? The Vulture Droids would smoke them. While it is fair to say that the decline in technology is because the prequels were made last, AND the source of cloaking devices were all but gone, it is equally fair to say that their inability to adapt and create cloaking devices out of new sources is, at least somewhat, a sign of the loss of advancements. Going back 4000 years now, the Ebon Hawk would likely fair at least decently in a race with the Millenium Falcon; mostly because Han wouldn't be able to keep that bucket in working order enough and they'd fall behind.

but back to the original point:

not a chance. the executor and the other SSDs are virtually invincible by the standards of The start of Episode I-The End of Episode VI; by KotOR's standards, it would be absolutley invincible

Darth Primus
10-24-2010, 06:42 PM
That's a... bold statement. I'm going to have to go with the Ebon Hawk. With Carth and Bastila at the controls, and Revan manning the turret, they could destroy the bridge, or wreak havoc from the inside.

Well, wreaking havoc on the inside is a completely different issue. The point of the matter is: can a KotOR era STARSHIP blow the hell out of the Executor?

The answer is no. Not an Ebon Hawk, not a vessel twenty times larger, or ten times smaller. Even if the Hawk has a reputable pilot, an ace gunner and Battle Meditation, there is still 4000 years of technological advancement to cope with. That means, stronger shields, point-defense accuracy guns (that could blast the hell out of any small ship).

TKA-001
10-25-2010, 11:53 PM
The answer is no. Not an Ebon Hawk, not a vessel twenty times larger, or ten times smaller. Even if the Hawk has a reputable pilot, an ace gunner and Battle Meditation, there is still 4000 years of technological advancement to cope with. That means, stronger shields, point-defense accuracy guns (that could blast the hell out of any small ship).
You don't even need to go that far. No matter what century it's from, a freighter is never going to dent the shields of an ISD, let alone the Executor.

Isaac Clarke
10-27-2010, 08:32 AM
I know that some of these are not from the KOTOR era but... The Shawken Device(maybe), The Sun Crusher, The Galaxy Gun(maybe), and Centerpoint Station. Notice that all of them are superweapons. Yes. Oh yeah, and one more thing. If you say that they're allowed to have fighters, then The Star Forge.

Ctrl Alt Del
10-27-2010, 05:09 PM
Thats just crazytalk. Disabled ships do not suddenly navigate into the next Deathstar.
It's the nearest/biggest gravity well.

Blix
10-29-2010, 10:18 PM
Uhh the Ravager...?

ForeverNight
11-01-2010, 03:11 PM
Would still fail against the Executor.

Face it, _nothing_ from that period can hope to win against the Executor outside of some freak accident.

It's like the wright flying trying to take on a F-22 Raptor in air to air combat. It just doesn't work.

Can we lock this thread so it doesn't get revived again next year?

.:Lord Revan:.
12-21-2010, 03:49 PM
Saul Karath's Couragous maybe. I know I can't trust wookie but here http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Inexpugnable-class_tactical_command_ship

Darth Primus
12-22-2010, 07:33 AM
Saul Karath's Couragous maybe. I know I can't trust wookie but here http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Inexpugnable-class_tactical_command_ship

Do me a favor. Look at the size of that little ship. A meager 3.1 kilometers... The Executor is 19 kilometers long. That's six times the size, six times the amount of weapon mounts. Probably much more than six times the amount of support craft carried within the Executor's hull. It's out of the question for any starship, even a fleet of starships from the KotOR era to be able to face Vader's little toy plane. The Executor is a mobile space station, designed to be the state of the art in military warships of his time, which has over 4000 years of technological development of advantage over the "Courageous".

.:Lord Revan:.
12-22-2010, 01:24 PM
Hey I said "maybe". :)

Darth Primus
12-23-2010, 09:33 AM
Point is, there is no room for consideration. No maybe. No fleet of ships from the KotOR era can match the state-of-the-art starship that is the hammerhead of the one and only tyrannical government to be able to cover most of the galaxy for over twenty years.

LDR
12-24-2010, 09:44 AM
As much as I would love to see the Leviathan destroy the Executor, I have to open my eyes and remember that it isn't going to happen. MAYBE against a regular Star Destroyer. MAYBE. But against the Executor? Nope. It'll be blown up before it can land a shot at the Executor. Sorry Saul...

You people have to just understand that KOTOR Era ships are inferior to the Executor. Just because the Leviathan is awesome doesn't mean that it could blow up the Executor with a single shot. Even I have to come to this realization.

Also this thread is nonsense as the answer to this thread is glaringly obvious. The Executor could pwn anything from the Kotor Era. Even the Star Forge. Don't believe me?

Ok, the Star Forge churns out ships at the speed of light. Executor destroys puny ships with relative ease. Lands a few shots at the Command Center. Bye-bye Star Forge. Executor spend less than 5 minutes destroying what's left of the Star Forge fleet. Also the explosion of the Star Forge would destroy most, if not all of the puny capital ships that it had spawned. Executor instant win. :xp:

.:Lord Revan:.
12-30-2010, 06:32 PM
As much as I would love to see the Leviathan destroy the Executor, I have to open my eyes and remember that it isn't going to happen. MAYBE against a regular Star Destroyer. MAYBE. But against the Executor? Nope. It'll be blown up before it can land a shot at the Executor. Sorry Saul...

You people have to just understand that KOTOR Era ships are inferior to the Executor. Just because the Leviathan is awesome doesn't mean that it could blow up the Executor with a single shot. Even I have to come to this realization.

Also this thread is nonsense as the answer to this thread is glaringly obvious. The Executor could pwn anything from the Kotor Era. Even the Star Forge. Don't believe me?

Ok, the Star Forge churns out ships at the speed of light. Executor destroys puny ships with relative ease. Lands a few shots at the Command Center. Bye-bye Star Forge. Executor spend less than 5 minutes destroying what's left of the Star Forge fleet. Also the explosion of the Star Forge would destroy most, if not all of the puny capital ships that it had spawned. Executor instant win. :xp:

Yep the Executer wins end of story. :D

Dark_Ansem
06-13-2011, 09:51 AM
not in a million years. the Executor would simply swallow the Leviathan up.

harark1
06-13-2011, 11:30 AM
I say it's easy. How the Executer actually is deafeated is after the sheilds are depleated a tie fighter accidently flies into the bridge, killing all the officers and destroying the navagation. Sure, very few ships from the Kotor era may be able to take down it's shields but if they could then it would be very simple to win. Just be a kamikaze:).

Also about the convo about wheter nukes are used in star wars, they have been but many of the races believe them to be crude, and underpowered compared to other weapons such as a proton torpedo. (Which was developed in the Kotor era, they are used by the Ravager when it's invading Telos.) I also think during the time of the new republic(After the rebels win against the empire.) they(Nukes, I mean not Proton torpedos.) are outlawed.(I remember reading that in a star wars book a while ago but I am not sure if that is true.)

So, I think the Ravager could defeat the Executer.

Primogen
06-16-2011, 03:54 AM
The tower being destroyed was a sensor tower, not a shield tower. The shields on the Executor were taken down by a concentrated bombardment from a significant percentage of the Rebel fleet. Ackbar didn't say 'Concentrate all fire that Super Star Destroyer' because he was for the lulz.' If all it took was two guided missiles to destroy the entire ship, they would do that.

Mandalorian Knight
06-24-2011, 01:49 AM
Couldn't happen, unless there is some other KOTOR era super-ship that isn't public knowledge. The Executor is itself a super weapon, IMO. It would be foolhardy to attack it with anything less than another super weapon or a fleet of capital ships.