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News
08-22-2009, 12:20 AM
As promised by Bioware, today we get to see 20 minutes of pure in-game action, featuring the Bounty Hunter, the Smuggler, and the recently announced Sith Warrior. The video also features most of the flashpoint event shown at E3. The 20 minutes of gameplay is split up into 4 smaller 5 minute videos which play one [...]

Read the full story at starwarsmmo.net... (http://www.starwarsmmo.net/news/20-minutes-of-gameplay-footage-at-ign/)

knight 12167
08-22-2009, 04:07 AM
LOL I watched this at 8 in this morning,Since Im an aussie it is now 6 O'Clock!!
Anyway a awesome vid

adamqd
08-22-2009, 04:07 AM
Creamy!

I like the Korriban tomb detail, and smuggler moves... the Sith warship and Sith Lord, death from above, the detail on the landscapes lol, awesome stuff Very awesome stuff.

Venom750
08-22-2009, 05:26 AM
This looks excellent my doubts about the game are slowly melting away

Miltiades
08-22-2009, 05:36 AM
Gameplay looks fine, I imagine this could be fun. The voice acting wasn't very good, though, and the writing was often horrible...

jrrtoken
08-22-2009, 08:36 AM
The dialogue... it is awful (Even by BioWare's standards), both in execution and content. I can't really see how the choices would make any real difference; even if all of choices are to be considered as flavor, most of the others didn't really seem to have any difference whatsoever, at first glance.

Lines that deserve mention:
"The captain's dead! The captain's... dead. :ball:"
"Cooperate... or die"

I still can't figure out combat; is it purely RTwP, and if so, where is the "restriction" for abilities and movement? AFAIK, it looks like a turn-less system, but with no other penalty.

The Korriban part was verily dull; I don't want "Purge [insert enemies here] from [insert location here]" quests; they're not fun, interesting, or any of the like, and are only based on powergrinding. Plus, the Tomb of Ajnuta Pall... doesn't look like the Tomb of Ajunta Pall, at all. ::

The Sith Warship ended up as another grindfest. IMO, they could've taken it to greater strategic levels by organizing defenses and security levels; that would've provided greater role-playing and strategy, rather than simply going alone and killing everything via direct combat.

In short, my already low expectations dropped dramatically.

Darth InSidious
08-22-2009, 09:43 AM
I did have a long post about the first two videos commenting more in detail, but that got wiped out, so here's this one instead. :/

Dialogue is vile - "Hey indeed!", etc.; special abilities seem mostly to be feats pillaged from K1, the plot seems largely to be pillaged from the films even more blatantly than K1's was a homage, the VO is terrible, dialogue choices seem to be non-existent, but hidden behind the dialogue wheel system just in case, so you can't tell that all the options are exactly the same.

The indication of what the quests consist of would seem to be standard MMO fare - fedexes, grinding/raids and collect ten rancor pelts - interspersed with Bioware's worst cutscenes ever. (Just what does "cinematic animation acting" or whatever the guy said in part 1 mean?).

Consequences, despite the hyping, sound superficial and have no impact on the story progression.

The idea that Dark Side points affect your character progression is also laughable.

"Heroic combat" seems to be the code-phrase for "hideously unbalanced". The sparking from lightsaber combat is absurd, and actually obscures what's going on.

The story looks vile, and confirms my suspicions: chock-full of gimmicks, and typical MMO stuff like grinding beyond belief interspersed with horrible, horrible dialogue.

The fact that they have to hype the voice-acting so much also is probably not a good sign.

Alexrd
08-22-2009, 11:20 AM
Consequences, despite the hyping, sound superficial and have no impact on the story progression.

How can you say that, if you only watched so few of the story?

Darth InSidious
08-22-2009, 11:35 AM
How can you say that, if you only watched so few of the story?

By looking at the examples given by the developers in the video, and Bioware's track record.

Alexrd
08-22-2009, 11:40 AM
By looking at the examples given by the developers in the video, and Bioware's track record.

Possibly, the big impact appears forward on the story. The fact is that we still know so few about this game that we can't judge the game by a couple of videos.

Darth InSidious
08-22-2009, 11:42 AM
Possibly, the big impact appears forward on the story. The fact is that we still know so few about this game that we can't judge the game by a couple of videos.

Perhaps, but this is an MMO and by Bioware, and if they had included such consequences they would have hyped that, rather than talking so much about "cinematic" elements and the voice acting.

Litofsky
08-22-2009, 01:14 PM
I'm watching the videos as I type, so prepare for bullet-like comments.

"Anyway, all of (our) conversations are going to be like that: great dialogue and compelling choices." >_>

Also, I need to feel like a Star Wars Hero™.

An astounding replication of a Hammerhead. Truly, I am mesmerized by its realism and pretty flashy turbolasers. On a side note, why is the symbol used for the Empire (regular Star Wars one) being used 4,000 years earlier?

Crowd control. Crowd control. Crowd control. Is there any other way to say 'Harm lotsa people quickly?' Crowd control.

[/twenty minutes later] Finally finished. The combat was decent, nothing to be drooling over, but it was poor, either. The working together part was interesting, but not enough to make me go out and buy the game.

For starters, I was deeply annoyed by the lack of 'consoles' in the scenes, particularly the ship. I remember, in both games, there were always a few consoles around that you could slice, blowing up enemies behind doors, gassing a room, or even turning droids to your sides. Here, it as 'Kill kill kill!'

Perhaps I'm just being too harsh on the game, but, as of right now, I'm harboring serious doubts.

darthcarth
08-22-2009, 02:07 PM
Well after seeing that video i can say that i wont get this game though already I was having serious doubts. The animation for walking looks hideous and the wave emote looks quite honestly retarded. Besides that there was no challenge at all i love how they said you had to use team work on that last fight but tbh the sith could have taken on that jedi knight with out a problem. And yes the voice acting and dialogue was terrible reminds me of the kids centered clone wars series which i absolutely despise. I was hoping that this would honestly be great but bioware has ruined that hope but I guess it can complain for making it so casual/kid friendly as it seems that all mmorpgs are going that way now (example the new wow expansion).

RogueJedi86
08-22-2009, 02:43 PM
This is pre-alpha, plenty of room to improve the non-voicework areas. Animations and combat and such can be improved easily. Lots of games are far less playable at this stage of development.

Hallucination
08-22-2009, 05:05 PM
Judging from the commentary in this thread I think I'll postpone watching the video for a few hours. >_>

Nedak
08-22-2009, 06:14 PM
I have a question for those who have tried the demo at E3.

When you shot at NPCs were you holding down the mouse button, or did it automatically fire?

maugomale
08-22-2009, 07:53 PM
Christ, everyone seems to be forgetting that this game is still WIP. There's plenty of time for it to be polished up before the final release.

Sure, the dialogue isn't perfect, but as they say, this is the first fully-voiced MMO. It's at least better than having no voice at all.

WraithPrince
08-22-2009, 08:53 PM
You should'nt complain too much about the voicing they could have pulled a bethesda on us and have 5 voice actors for everyone would'nt that be swell?

Darth InSidious
08-22-2009, 09:17 PM
You should'nt complain too much about the voicing they could have pulled a bethesda on us and have 5 voice actors for everyone would'nt that be swell?

So because it isn't abysmal it shouldn't be critiqued? Nice logic there.

Demongo
08-22-2009, 09:32 PM
Well the melee combat could be a little bit better but other than that I'm........................................I'm impressed :O

WraithPrince
08-23-2009, 03:06 PM
So because it isn't abysmal it shouldn't be critiqued? Nice logic there.

Ok maybe thats not the best example.

But having a 'cinamatic' conversation is alot better then scrolling through 2 paragraphs for the 3 or 4 important words.

kill 20 man-eating rabits.

Darth InSidious
08-23-2009, 03:15 PM
Ok maybe thats not the best example.

But having a 'cinamatic' conversation is alot better then scrolling through 2 paragraphs for the 3 or 4 important words.

kill 20 man-eating rabits.

I'd argue that if you're looking at it like that - indeed, if you're writing it like that, then you're doing it wrong.

Rathoris
08-23-2009, 04:07 PM
movie kinda fails. I understand the game is still far from finished but Bioware is all about showing things when it is of acceptable quality and stuff. so this doesn't give me much hope. The graphics are still off, the animations are bad, the VO work is hilariously poor. Bad feeling..... ::

Venom750
08-23-2009, 04:34 PM
How do people judge the Voice Over as bad i'm seeing alot of people saying this whats so bad about it reason people please?

gstommylee
08-23-2009, 04:40 PM
I think its a too early to be jumping the bandwagon. Like a few said animations aren't final graphics maybe polished by the time its released. They showed very little of the voice over work.


The walkthrough video is not the current build that they are working on now. Its possible most things could been already improved with the current build they are in.

adamqd
08-23-2009, 04:46 PM
Quality of VO is of little consequence to me, as the fact that it is an MMO means the Character voice and set lines they give me are irrelevant to the character I create. I will be interacting with real people as myself... not Tom Kane as Sith Voice/Male Human_03.

The only things that caught my eye as bad, were the Running animation, the Lightsaber blade, the lightsaber clash animation and the fact that I have size 19 feet and a 15 inch waist lol.

Hallucination
08-23-2009, 04:46 PM
Well, my expectations took a bit of a hit there. Why is Bioware even still trying to show videos from E3? Who decided that moving your upper body whilst running was a bad idea?
How do people judge the Voice Over as bad i'm seeing alot of people saying this whats so bad about it reason people please?
The writing sounds like something out of a high school creative writing class and the acting is about one level above that of Microsoft Sam.

Fredi
08-23-2009, 06:14 PM
Niceeeee! look's good for me.

Lord of Hunger
08-23-2009, 07:59 PM
The writing sounds like something out of a high school creative writing class and the acting is about one level above that of Microsoft Sam.
By what standard? What exactly are you expecting? How would you do it?

jrrtoken
08-23-2009, 08:16 PM
By what standard? What exactly are you expecting? How would you do it?I'd put some thought into the writing, for one, and make dialogue sound like a natural conversation, warts and all. As far as the more "dark-side" parts go, I'd add more exposition and pathos coming from Sith; it makes them seem more sociopathic and deranged, almost like quirky serial killers.

KotOR II is a fairly good example of decent writing, and it's set in-universe, so if anything, BioWare should follow that example. Still, the stating of the obvious with "The captain's dead!" isn't exactly a good notion of better quality, especially when it seems to parallel a schlocky B-movie:

HyophYBP_w4

Hallucination
08-23-2009, 11:10 PM
By what standard?
High school ones.
What exactly are you expecting?
Good writing.
How would you do it?
Well.

On a more serious note, I just feel that the actors were expressing themselves like they had a monologue (i.e. the universe freezes and everyone is listening) for one sentence, plus they can't yell properly (how were the captain and lieutenant heard on a bridge that big?). On top of that the writing wasn't up to the 'I-want-to-go-out-and-spend-money-on-that-game' level.

Edit: Also they totally timed it to crash Blizzcon and failed miserably, which is a bit of a low thing to do. Now I don't think I'd mind if Blizzard crashed TOR's release like they did with WAR.

DAWUSS
08-24-2009, 09:18 AM
The gameplay looks like a cross between SWG's NGE and KOTOR

RogueJedi86
08-24-2009, 12:45 PM
The gameplay looks like a cross between SWG's NGE and KOTOR

Doesn't that mean it basically looks like Mass Effect's gameplay then? Mass Effect's combat is a mix of KotOR's and a shooter(like the NGE).

Kado Sunrider
08-24-2009, 06:30 PM
Well, I for one, was impressed. Too the people who are complaining. This is an MMO. You should NOT (and I repeat NOT) be comparing this in any way to K1, K2, or Mass Effect, or whatever else you can conjure up to make this seem like a pitiful attempt at an MMO. Have any of you even played an MMO before? This is WAY above and beyond current MMO standards. When was the last time you heard an NPC in an MMO actually talk to you instead of having you read a paragraph? Seriously, I don't want to seem like this is the most amazing game ever, but its not as bad as you make it out to be, AND its still in development, so there! :P

RogueJedi86
08-24-2009, 06:49 PM
Well I always compare to Mass Effect as a good thing, a way to successfully blend RPG and Shooter gameplay. MMOs have to be partially RPG just by the nature of the character skill system, so finding a way to blend other genres in only helps to make the game more variable.

And I hear EQ2 was fully voiced, but I guess not since TOR is boasting as being the first fully voiced MMO. If you check IMDB, EQ2's cast is HUGE, with pretty much every VA in the industry voicing multiple characters. If it wasn't even fully voiced and had that much VA work, TOR's cast will probably take an hour to read in the credits.

I'd love for BioWare to spill some of the VA names. Some of them are obvious(like Steve Blum as the player character Bounty Hunter in the various videos), but I'd love for them to confirm the actors. It's not like it breaks some game NDA with elite secret info just by saying X-actor/actress voices the male/female of X-class.

Hallucination
08-24-2009, 07:45 PM
You should NOT (and I repeat NOT) be comparing this in any way to K1, K2, or Mass Effect, or whatever else you can conjure up to make this seem like a pitiful attempt at an MMO.
That's what Bioware seems to want us to do. o_Q

jrrtoken
08-24-2009, 07:48 PM
This is an MMO. You should NOT (and I repeat NOT) be comparing this in any way to K1, K2, or Mass Effect, or whatever else you can conjure up to make this seem like a pitiful attempt at an MMO.BioWare is treating this as an MMO with single-player elements; as such, when the elements in question are half-baked, at best, then there is merit in criticizing TOR, to an extent.Have any of you even played an MMO before?If a very brief dabbling in Guild Wars counts, then, yes, I have.This is WAY above and beyond current MMO standards.To be honest, if TOR is considered a new bastion of gameplay in MMOs, then it truly shows what a horrible excuse for gameplay that are MMOs. I mean, I felt that most of quests that we shown in the demo were quite banal; if this is considered a godsend, then obviously most other MMOs are incredibly abysmal.When was the last time you heard an NPC in an MMO actually talk to you instead of having you read a paragraph?To be frank, I doubt that most MMO players even have the patience to read a brief paragraph of text; do you really think that they'll bother with a few seconds of prerecorded audio?Seriously, I don't want to seem like this is the most amazing game ever, but its not as bad as you make it out to be, AND its still in development, so there! :PTOR has been in-development for... what, three and a half years now? I would've expected a lot more given that BioWare had the funds to open a brand new studio to simply work on this game alone; there are companies that are able to create complex CRPGs in less than half that time, and with a skeleton crew, to boot.

Mandalore_
08-25-2009, 04:23 AM
I tust in Bioware that they will releasy a high quality star wars MMORPG, there is still alot of improvement, and I dont think it is wise to judge a game from a 20min preview.

darthfergie
08-25-2009, 09:35 AM
Good lord people. Jumping off the bandwagon because of a demo that was clearly mocked up for E3 to demonstrate the game in motion and to illustrate that "hey people talk." You arn't seeing any real story lines, you arn't involved in the quest or past quests that were used to get you there. You have no context to criticize it in this huge storyline that everyone is in. You saw one small part of a multipart quest that was blitzed by higher level characters who barely took any damage.

That said, I enjoyed the footage. It really made me excited to see it in motion and to see how the various classes work. After coming from playing WoW the graphics are a huge relief, you may say it looks weird, by now though I'm really starting to get used to it and I kinda like it.

The combat was interesting. It was a good to see the special moves. As for not being able to follow the moves very well of the sith. I think once you get behind the controls of one you'll have no trouble as the special moves will all start to become distinctive. I loved the all out blitz that the Sith Warrior seems to be able to do. It'll get him in trouble though charging through too many mobs too quickly.

I want to know how it benefits the BH to do the "Death From Above" attack over his normal attacks though. I mean is it just a concentrated attack of blasterfire and rockets all at once or does it prevent him from getting hit while in the air?

Anyways, I'm getting stoked for this game. As long as one of the classes announced ISN'T creature handler, I'm in.

Insignia_Enithma
08-25-2009, 11:07 AM
I was overall impressed what really bugged me is how little damage a character takes,especially against the Jedi Knight :/

Jeff
08-25-2009, 11:34 AM
I was overall impressed what really bugged me is how little damage a character takes,especially against the Jedi Knight :/I am guessing that was fixed for the demo, none of the characters they showed through the demo took hardly any damage and I am guessing you'll have to be a bit more careful in the actual game.

darthfergie
08-25-2009, 12:52 PM
I am guessing that was fixed for the demo, none of the characters they showed through the demo took hardly any damage and I am guessing you'll have to be a bit more careful in the actual game.

I'm sure. The dev mentions the Death from Above move being a higher level BH move. They basically did the equivalent of my lvl 80 taking on a lvl 60 quest in WoW for demo purposes because even the boss Jedi Knight barely touched his HP.

RogueJedi86
08-25-2009, 01:01 PM
I assume they just turned on God Mode. Game developers love to do that for Game Convention demos. Why use a high level character when you can just turn on god mode that makes your health and damage 1 billion?

Hallucination
08-25-2009, 01:56 PM
Good lord people. Jumping off the bandwagon because of a demo that was clearly mocked up for E3
And released for GamesCon. They could have released it after E3, but then they'd have to either pass on GC or (heaven forbid) make a new video/announcement.

You arn't seeing any real story lines, you arn't involved in the quest or past quests that were used to get you there. You have no context to criticize it in this huge storyline that everyone is in.
They showed what they called the first bounty hunter quest, and we don't know whether or not the Sith flashpoint will show up in-game.

After coming from playing WoW the graphics are a huge relief, you may say it looks weird, by now though I'm really starting to get used to it and I kinda like it.
I like cartoon-ish graphics, but I like models who don't have broomsticks for spinal cords more.

As long as one of the classes announced ISN'T creature handler, I'm in.
IIRC Bioware wants no one pet class, instead everyone gets a companion.

Kado Sunrider
08-25-2009, 02:45 PM
To be honest, if TOR is considered a new bastion of gameplay in MMOs, then it truly shows what a horrible excuse for gameplay that are MMOs. I mean, I felt that most of quests that we shown in the demo were quite banal; if this is considered a godsend, then obviously most other MMOs are incredibly abysmal.

Actually, most MMO's are abysmal, to use your word, compared to a standard SPRPG. In fact, if MMOs were single-player, they would be so abysmal that it would make games like pong feel like an epic adventure. What makes an MMO so great is the community, and the escapism effect you can have while still communicating with other people. Its kind of like the most basic form of alternate reality in a way.

Anyways, rant over. Im looking forward to this game, and Im hoping to see a couple things change (lightsabers and weapon size, running animations, etc.) but other than that it looks pretty solid for an Alpha-stage MMO. :thmbup1:

Sith'ari Darth Bane
08-26-2009, 12:39 AM
Just checked out the videos, very cool!

WraithPrince
08-26-2009, 09:33 AM
They did say they were high level, but they probably made the characters have uber health in the demo so they wouldn't die even if the guy playing sucked.