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Astor
09-10-2009, 11:01 AM
I've been thinking recently about Ewoks and their role in Return of the Jedi. Just what do they represent?

Some say that -

The Ewoks, in their defeat of the Imperial forces on the moon of Endor represent the ability of even the most primitive of beings overcoming the most overwhelming odds.

While others say -

The Ewoks represent nothing more than an effort to sell toys, and add an un-needed 'cute factor' to Star Wars

Is there a moral behind these adorable little furballs (below)? Or are they just there to look to cute? Could three-foot tall teddy bears really have defeated an entire legion of the Emperor's best troops?


http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/b/b7/Ewoks-endor.jpg

Discuss.

jonathan7
09-10-2009, 11:31 AM
Furrballs don't beat an "Entire Legion of my best troops" - I don't care what happened in Vietnam - the Vietcong had guns and tunnels - the Ewoks had neither, and were short and one imagines not very strong. Wookies would have been much better, and believable...

mimartin
09-10-2009, 11:45 AM
“Your overconfidence is your weakness.”

“Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.”

I would not believe that the Ewoks could have defeated the Imperial forces by themselves, but they had a little help.
http://www.wookies-etc.com/images/content/endor-forest.jpg

More importantly, it would not have made a very good ending to the saga had the Empire’s forces crushed the Rebels and continued to rule the galaxy. After all it is only a movie. ;)

Sabretooth
09-10-2009, 12:09 PM
"We need something new to sell to the kids, George."

"We can always have another bad guy... maybe a new type of combat droid?"

"No, we have plenty of those. We need something... cute, fuzzy. And small, not like Chewbacca."

"Okay, I guess I can add a race of cute, small, fuzzy creatures, but what do they do?"

"Well they're cute, so they're good."

"Uhh... right."

"And that means they're fighting with the Rebellion."

"I guess so."

"Now you ever seen a cute thing that was intelligent, George? Ever seen a puppy or a Playboy bunny score a PhD?"

"I think I see what you're trying to-"

"Good, now you go ahead and write that little script of yours, while we roll out the toys."

"..."


My point being, gentlemen, that the answer is both

Web Rider
09-10-2009, 12:27 PM
Honestly this was just a "lets make something cute!" effort on the part of Lucas. And they were pretty darn ugly IMO.

Arcesious
09-10-2009, 07:08 PM
You should see them in Lego Starwars - The Original Trilogy with the super ewok catapult extra turned on. If the ewoks used explosive projectiles, like makeshift grenades, a defeat of the empire's forces would be realistic.

You'd think that by the time of the Empire, the armor of soldiers should be able to deflect machine-gun bullets, much less sticks and stones...

HdVaderII
09-10-2009, 09:31 PM
Entire Legion of my best troops

If I remember he made quite a few other claims in that conversation that proved to be faulty.

I assure you, we are quite safe from your friends here!
You can't exactly take this man on his word. For all we know, they could have been a group of fresh recruits from the academy!

Darth Avlectus
09-10-2009, 09:42 PM
I know Daniel Rodgers. :devsmoke:

e-varmint
09-11-2009, 12:47 AM
It is my fondest hope that someone will mod some playable Ewoks for KOTOR. I'm tired of marooning Carth in the field of Kath Hounds in his underwear. I need fresh victims.

As for the topic, I am inclined to favor the "cute factor". I think they did a much better job with the sickening little fuzzballs in FoC. If I recall, the "Ewok Handler" character throws bags of Ewoks and Explosives (truly a winning combo) at his enemies.

My avatar, incidentally, is a Snathi, not an Ewok.

Q
09-11-2009, 09:42 AM
I've been thinking recently about Ewoks and their role in Return of the Jedi. Just what do they represent?
For me, they represent the first in a long, long line of examples of why I no longer consider George Lucas to be a serious filmmaker. :carms:

Jae Onasi
09-12-2009, 06:17 PM
My point being, gentlemen, that the answer is both

I'll buy that answer. At least they're cuter than Jar-Jar, and a whole lot less stupid.

VarsityPuppet
09-12-2009, 07:25 PM
I always had problems with how the ewoks were able to take down StormTroopers with rocks and sticks.

I mean, c'mon, let's be honest. Ewoks are hardly savages... and Storm Troopers are supposedly trained killers.

But let's be honest: The Empire wasn't exactly at the top of their game whenever we saw them in action.

ForeverNight
09-12-2009, 08:01 PM
Hey, I always hated how the Stormtroopers were portrayed. The only time that they approached anything to what their reputation was like was in the boarding of the Tantive IV, and then they shouldn't have taken any casualties as they entered the ship, just firing through the smoke at the rebels using their helmets.

And if those blast marks are so accurate only Imperial Stormtroopers could have made them then I think I'd be afraid to be standing behind anybody at a range.

Anyway @ thread: I hate the Ewoks, since their defeat of the stormtroopers is much like those armed with bows and arrows taking down kevlar armored and m-4 armed modern soldiers. In other words, not happening.

HdVaderII
09-13-2009, 09:59 PM
And if those blast marks are so accurate only Imperial Stormtroopers could have made them then I think I'd be afraid to be standing behind anybody at a range.

If that's what Obi-Wan counts as accurate, I wonder how bad the Tusken Raiders are?

Web Rider
09-14-2009, 03:24 AM
For me, they represent the first in a long, long line of examples of why I no longer consider George Lucas to be a serious filmmaker. :carms:

Not only that, but they are part of a long line of both hero-cutification and villain-degradation.

Drunkside
09-14-2009, 07:40 AM
Sure as hell ewoks could defeat a legion of empire´s finest troops. Just check out their accuracy rate people. Stormies would have hard time hitting water even if they were floating in a lake... I think it was both, but mainly to sell some toys.

VarsityPuppet
09-14-2009, 10:16 AM
If that's what Obi-Wan counts as accurate, I wonder how bad the Tusken Raiders are?

And yet take into consideration that Tusken Raiders were shooting podracers in Episode I.. if you can hit a moving object from that far away, my guess is that you'd have to have pretty good aim. Maybe it was a lucky shot though.


Just check out their accuracy rate people. Stormies would have hard time hitting water even if they were floating in a lake... I think it was both, but mainly to sell some toys.

I remember wanting a Luke Skywalker at some point.. ugly teddy bears never hit my mind

Demongo
09-14-2009, 10:53 AM
I think that this part of ROTJ was stupid. I mean really.You said that before^^ but:
most of the stormies(I know not every one of them) are supposed to be the clone of Jango Fett. Jango could've taken down the whole Ewok race by himself! And the Empire had AT-STs too. So:
a bunch of Teddy Bears, a smuggler pair, a princess and two droids could defeat the empire! Luke wasn't even there!

e-varmint
09-15-2009, 11:25 PM
.....but mainly to sell some toys.

Dang, I wish I had thought of that. I want to revise my answer.

Maybe the STs on Endor were just so old by this point, that they couldn't really focus on the wee beasties. Or, maybe they were thinking of Ewok Bacon and got distracted.

Darth Avlectus
09-16-2009, 12:53 AM
Lucas' rationale was the idea that primitive life succeeds when military becomes too sophisticated or something like that. Besides, not all the stormtroopers were clones. IIRC they did do recruiting of regular folks too... Also I would think with the main clone sample long since deceased, making copies of copies inevitably leads to some issues and degradation.

But I agree that in a general sense it just seems a tad off.

Still, Philippine island dwellers fought back military invasions of Spain, Japan, and China during feudal times, no? They at least beat an invading force of Spaniards when they were part of the most powerful army in the world. I also hear of how Samurai on horseback were surprised and beaten by less well equipped Philippine dwellers. China had attempted to overrun them too, and failed.

What I am getting at is that just as the "inferior" Philippine combatants used their environment to their advantage, so could have the ewoks. I'm not taking away from the empire's power and forces, but I thought the way war is fought beyond battle is cerebral and tactical?

Just throwing that out there.

(Though personally they do look like a quick sales gimmick to me, though! :xp:)

Giant Graffiti
09-16-2009, 12:34 PM
All Ewok haters should read Apocalypse Endor, it puts an entirely different perspective on things.

Web Rider
09-16-2009, 04:48 PM
All Ewok haters should read Apocalypse Endor, it puts an entirely different perspective on things.

What, that they're really evil violent little buggers? Doesn't help anything at all!

The Empire shoulda purged the whole forest of them, no army like that should be intimidated by furry midgets.

Te Je'karta Mand'alor
09-26-2009, 09:34 PM
ahchem... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdd0edT-BeE :) rock it billy dee :thmbup1:

cire992
09-30-2009, 06:16 AM
If Lucas wasn't trying to sell Teddy Bears, he would have set ROTJ on Kashyyyk. There's more back-story, relevance and action there in a similar setting and using Wookiees wouldn't undermine the themes of the Battle of Endor in the slightest. Wookiees are low-tech but intelligent, oppressed by the Empire, a main character in Star Wars is a Wookiee and they can conceivably fight a battle in a manner that doesn't look awkward/goofy on screen. Unfortunately, they're butt ugly. Not good for merchandising.
This George Lucas sell out was brought to you by LucasFilms Ltd.

Darth Avlectus
10-03-2009, 01:34 AM
What, that they're really evil violent little buggers? Doesn't help anything at all!

The Empire shoulda purged the whole forest of them, no army like that should be intimidated by furry midgets.

They were not damned midgets, they were DWARFS! :carms:

ForeverNight
10-03-2009, 06:16 PM
Uh, no, they're midgets. They're bodies were in proportion to their limbs and height as opposed to dwarves, which are out of proportion.

Anyway, yes, they Empire should've just glassed the planet and reinforced the bunker HEAVILY with more than just Stormies, AT-ST's and AT-AT's... like maybe an entire Air/Space Wing and mines and all that fun stuff?

Darth Avlectus
10-04-2009, 02:42 AM
Uh, no, they're midgets. They're bodies were in proportion to their limbs and height as opposed to dwarves, which are out of proportion.

Maybe so far as EU is concerned, yes, however go look up the real life names, like the one I mentioned several posts back on the ROTJ cast--those actors were in fact dwarfs with out of proportion limbs to bodies.

Anyway, yes, they Empire should've just glassed the planet and reinforced the bunker HEAVILY with more than just Stormies, AT-ST's and AT-AT's... like maybe an entire Air/Space Wing and mines and all that fun stuff?

Why not have just blown up Yavin 4 years before that? Sure the first Death Star's capacitors/batteries/whatever storage may have needed to recharge but I assure you explosion + fragments + the sudden screw up in gravity would have killed the rebels in their base where they hid. I know at least one wisecrackin' guy (Samnmax221) who would back that up. The whole fleet was still there anyways.

adamqd
10-04-2009, 09:20 AM
To be Honest I like the Whole Original trilogy, Ewoks and all... But, 30 Years, The Prequels and several TV Spin-offs has shown me that maybe George didn't have as much Control over the first Two Films as we are led to believe? You see, since 1983, every Chance GL has had to "Personally" Oversee Star Wars, It has been low-brow, Muppet show stuff.

Maybe He planned to Have the Fraggles and Kirmit in ANH but the studio LOL'd? anyhoo, as us EU fans are often told "If GL says the Ewoks took out a garrison of the Galaxies best Soldiers then they did!1" I guess they did... It's questionable, but the Epic scenes on a certain Orbiting Battle Station, more than Make up for the Furry faux pas.

Q
10-04-2009, 06:46 PM
I think that he had pretty much total creative control over ANH, but I believe that at the time he was much more interested in making a good film than he was in making money. It was after the focus changed to merchandising, and when he started trying to appeal directly to children and relying on special effects over film-making basics such as plot, dialog and character development, that it all went down the toilet.

The unfortunate result was a series of shallow, petty films that no mature adult can take seriously. :carms: