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VarsityPuppet
09-12-2009, 08:58 PM
I was playing through Peragus (for the nth time) testing out new force powers and various other tweaks, and I realized why so many of us hate Peragus.

NOTHING HAPPENS.

All that happens is you go around killing droids and listening to holo-records (if even) in a fairly uneventul module.

In my opinion, this is a shame. Peragus has potential to be a very exciting -- or, at least not a painful chore.

So, discussing this matter with my comrades in Team Hssiss, we've unanimously decided that Peragus is far too bright and cheery to be such a desolate and eerie place.

So, I set off to see if I could make it substantially darker. I of course didn't want to edit loads upon loads of lightmaps, so I took an easier route: ambient fog.

I haven't tweaked it so much, but here's how it looks currently:


http://a.imagehost.org/0424/screen1.png
http://a.imagehost.org/0508/screen2.png

I think it looks good, but as it turns out, Peragus isn't as bright and cheery as I originally thought.

What do you all think?

Darth Cryptic
09-12-2009, 09:19 PM
I like it. And yeah, now that you mention it, for a deserted mine, it is to cheery. Could probably do with a few more bodies laying around in the various corridors.

Rtas Vadum
09-12-2009, 09:29 PM
Peragus does have a nice story to it, but the problem is just like you said: nothing happens. It has a certain semblance to Event Horizon, in that soon enough, you realize that you are in a space station(or rather in a spacial construct), somewhat alone, and surrounded by death, if not a fading chaos. Though what would fit a little better, is if you don't actually wake up after the fact. But rather you wake up during the, "final quarter", so to speak. Meaning that at certain points, you might open one door(such as the malfunctioning door at the start), and as you pass through that room, you hear a yell, followed by a scream and the sound of blaster shots. And then you enter that room to find two droids, and a body, maybe two or three.

So basically, you either hear or possibly see the death of the last few officers.

The fog is a good one, such as using the same one used in parts of the tunnels. But I wouldn't put it everywhere, mainly just near the corpses, around the admin console, the HK-50, etc.

VarsityPuppet
09-12-2009, 09:31 PM
I like it. And yeah, now that you mention it, for a deserted mine, it is to cheery. Could probably do with a few more bodies laying around in the various corridors.

Actual miner bodies too. :XP:

I was thinking it might be good to have some non-killed miners around the place too...

unfortunately since no VOs exist for them, they'd have to be fighting droids and then consequently die before you can talk to 'em.

@ Rtas Vadum: yeah, i'd be nice to see some visible signs of real life.

And yes, the fog won't be EVERYwhere on Peragus, but unfortunately, it has to apply to the module as a whole... so it'll definitely be in some modules. perhaps not all though.

Sith Holocron
09-12-2009, 09:32 PM
Some broken, flickering light fixtures would be nice . . .

jonathan7
09-12-2009, 09:33 PM
unfortunately since no VOs exist for them, they'd have to be fighting droids and then consequently die before you can talk to 'em.

Or be Aliens ;) You could then make up whatever dialogue you wanted.

TriggerGod
09-12-2009, 09:35 PM
we'll be adding the fog to the modules which need them, which is all of them except for the mining tunnels.

And now for a status update. We've made the fog a little darker/denser. Just note, the fog is much darker in the screenshots. I was able to see further than what is shown in the screens.

http://h.imagehost.org/0634/screen1.jpg
http://h.imagehost.org/0727/screen2.jpg
http://h.imagehost.org/0117/screen3.jpg

EDIT:

Some broken, flickering light fixtures would be nice . . .
Unfortunately, that isn't possible. I will be editing some of the textures so that the lights look broken, but we won't be able to add flashing lights. Magnus was asking about animated lightmaps, and we got him some data about that, but we haven't gotten a word about anything.

Achilles
09-12-2009, 09:52 PM
I was playing through Peragus (for the nth time) testing out new force powers and various other tweaks, and I realized why so many of us hate Peragus.

NOTHING HAPPENS.

Hehe, except the part where you solve the mystery of why you woke up in a deserted mining facility where all the inhabitants had been murdered by a HK protocol droid.

I guess "nothing" is relative :)

Could probably do with a few more bodies laying around in the various corridors.

I counted 17 of them on the admin level alone. I just passed the part where I got cut off from the mining tunnels, but I vaguely recall seeing a bunch of them there too.

Perhaps your version doesn't include these though :(

VarsityPuppet
09-12-2009, 10:09 PM
Hehe, except the part where you solve the mystery of why you woke up in a deserted mining facility where all the inhabitants had been murdered by a HK protocol droid.

I guess "nothing" is relative :)

Yeah, the first or second time around it's compelling. but after that, you know whodunnit, and in consecutive playthroughs, nothing building up to that is interesting at all.

The numerous corpses laying around are forgetful at best.. which is why one would probably miscalculate how many there actually are.

Godric Volturi
09-12-2009, 10:35 PM
*coughs* I erm... I can't really tell a difference between Peragus on my computer and Peragus on the mod.

Achilles
09-12-2009, 10:39 PM
Yeah, the first or second time around it's compelling. but after that, you know whodunnit, and in consecutive playthroughs, nothing building up to that is interesting at all.

Momentarily forgetting that this too is a subjective opinion, it's still far from "nothing".

With the exception of a few tidbits that you can only access by changing PC gender or alignment, the comment quoted above is applicable to not only the entire game, but every game ever made.

The numerous corpses laying around are forgetful at best.. which is why one would probably miscalculate how many there actually are.

Perhaps if they were wearing colorful hats...nevermind.

Yes, I agree that OEI should have made more of an effort to make the corpses more memorable.

PS: just completed the dormitory section. I counted 43 corpses there. Clearly we are in desperate need of more corpses in corridors, etc.

jrrtoken
09-12-2009, 10:52 PM
If it's possible, is there a way to have the lightmaps configured in a way to allow flickering and dimmed lights?

Other than that, Peragus would definitely benefit from some more corpses, darker shadows, and "broken" props (Tipped over or malfunctioning consoles, plasteel cylinders, etc.)

VarsityPuppet
09-12-2009, 11:08 PM
*coughs* I erm... I can't really tell a difference between Peragus on my computer and Peragus on the mod.

It's darker... much darker. It should be noticeable it Trigger God's post.

Other than that, nothing else has really been done.

Lord of Hunger
09-12-2009, 11:17 PM
Suggestion, change the Peragus music with the Sion theme music. I always thought that the Peragus music was too...mellow.

TriggerGod
09-12-2009, 11:19 PM
If it's possible, is there a way to have the lightmaps configured in a way to allow flickering and dimmed lights?

Unfortunately not. That would involve re-doing all of the lightmaps of Peragus, and that would involve a lot of textures, and it also doesn't help that we don't have the tools yet to make that happen.

Other than that, Peragus would definitely benefit from some more corpses,

...I counted 17 of them on the admin level alone. I just passed the part where I got cut off from the mining tunnels, but I vaguely recall seeing a bunch of them there too...

...PS: just completed the dormitory section. I counted 43...

60+ corpses isn't enough? :0

darker shadows,

Can't do much with the shadows, so just stick with the very dark 'fog' for now.

Oh, and since there is an ominous lack of light, science would say that you wouldn't have a shadow, and everything else would be darker.

and "broken" props (Tipped over or malfunctioning consoles, plasteel cylinders, etc.)

And custom modeled placeables/destroyed placeables. Something I haven't really dabbled in, but I haven't had a lot of good experiences with custom placeables.

VarsityPuppet
09-12-2009, 11:25 PM
@ Trig

There are enough "broken" placeables in-game to use for this sort of thing. I'd say only model new ones if there's something that HAS to be done.

A custom smashed container doesn't HAVE to be modeled, but maybe a mutilated dead body would be worth modeling, for instance.

Or, we could just make like OE and reuse the severed arm placeable :XP:


@LOH We shall see what can be done with the music. Reusing Sion's might be a good idea.. but perhaps editing the Peragus music might be a better route to take.

I don't want to spend an enormous amount of time on this mod, as you know that I have others that I SHOULD be working on instead.

Achilles
09-12-2009, 11:40 PM
60+ corpses isn't enough? :0

According to some.

Godric Volturi
09-12-2009, 11:47 PM
It's darker... much darker. It should be noticeable it Trigger God's post.

Other than that, nothing else has really been done.


I thought you had posted the new screens in your first post. >.< I couldn't tell anything different about that. :xp:

Darth Cryptic
09-12-2009, 11:59 PM
Ok, hey, it was just an idea. When i suggested more corpses, I was thinking that there where a few areas that where devoid of bodies for no apparent reason; that section going from where T3 is stored to the hanger comes to mind off the top of my head. The mines could use a few more too. Maybe one in the decontamination chamber.

Achilles
09-13-2009, 12:07 AM
Ok, hey, it was just an idea. When i suggested more corpses, I was thinking that there where a few areas that where devoid of bodies for no apparent reason; that section going from where T3 is stored to the hanger comes to mind off the top of my head. The mines could use a few more too. Maybe one in the decontamination chamber.

It's stated several times via dialog that HK-50 purposely arranged to have those areas evacuated so that the miners would be easier to kill all at once. We could certainly add corpses to those areas, but then the environment would contradict the story. *shrugs*

@topic: a fiend (of the Dev-ish sort) suggests that one might opt to make the current corpses invisible placeables, then use scripts to spawn miners (wearing miner uniforms) where those placeables were and kill them via the on-enter script. Instant hi-res dead miners.

VarsityPuppet
09-13-2009, 12:16 AM
@topic: a fiend (of the Dev-ish sort) suggests that one might opt to make the current corpses invisible placeables, then use scripts to spawn miners (wearing miner uniforms) where those placeables were and kill them via the on-enter script. Instant hi-res dead miners.

That was the idea. They are alive momentarily however... with the fog though, maybe one would never notice.

TriggerGod
09-13-2009, 12:18 AM
@topic: a fiend (of the Dev-ish sort) suggests that one might opt to make the current corpses invisible placeables, then use scripts to spawn miners (wearing miner uniforms) where those placeables were and kill them via the on-enter script. Instant hi-res dead miners.

Me and VP were discussing that earlier today. We decided that we were going to be doing that anyways, so that it doesn't look like the mining droids didn't got a sudden thirst for human flesh.

ninja'd. >.>

Q
09-13-2009, 12:19 AM
This looks good. Peragus was always way too bright to be creepy. I was imagining a completely different effect when the word "fog" was mentioned; one that wouldn't have looked nearly as good. After viewing the screenshots, however, it's readily apparent that this is going to work without having to go to the trouble of editing all of the lightmaps. Using ambient fog in this way is a brilliant workaround. :thumbsup:

Other comments:
1) No more bodies are needed, but changing them to a less "rotten" appearance (I mean, just how long was the Exile in that kolto tank? 6 months? :p) would make a lot of sense. This should be done on the Harbinger as well.
EDIT: Looks like this one has already been covered.

2) In adherence to the dialog and to the mood itself, I really don't think that there should be anyone other than the Exile, Kreia and Atton left alive in the facility. That should help simplify the mod as well.

3) Keep Ulic's Peragus/Harbinger corrections mod in mind.

I think that you're off to a great start, here. :)

VarsityPuppet
09-13-2009, 12:26 AM
Using ambient fog in this way is a brilliant workaround. :thumbsup:

Heh... it does look a little strange though when you actually play the game with the fog


Other comments:
1) No more bodies are needed, but changing them to a less "rotten" appearance (I mean, just how long was the Exile in that kolto tank? 6 months? :p) would make a lot of sense. This should be done on the Harbinger as well.

I think the bodies on the Harbinger are Republic Soldiers.
I remember this because I was going to go fix this once upon a time... but to my surprise they were already Republic Soldiers. Idk, it was weird, or it was a dream.


2) In adherence to the dialog and to the mood itself, I really don't think that there should be anyone other than the Exile, Kreia and Atton left alive in the facility. That should help simplify the mod as well.


Yeah probably not.. though I'll consider anything to liven up Peragus a bit.


3) Keep Ulic's Peragus/Harbinger corrections mod in mind.

I'd be foolish not to :D

Q
09-13-2009, 12:35 AM
I think the bodies on the Harbinger are Republic Soldiers.
I remember this because I was going to go fix this once upon a time... but to my surprise they were already Republic Soldiers. Idk, it was weird, or it was a dream.
I just checked, and you're correct about the Harbinger in-game. The rotten corpses are in the movie that shows Sion meditating on the bridge. That's where I saw them.

Quanon
09-13-2009, 09:08 AM
Or be Aliens ;) You could then make up whatever dialogue you wanted.

You mean this kind of Alien:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o34/slazzir/RendTexBla2.jpg

jonathan7
09-13-2009, 09:19 AM
You mean this kind of Alien:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o34/slazzir/RendTexBla2.jpg

Hehe, well thats for our Peragus mod Q :xp:

Darth InSidious
09-13-2009, 09:33 AM
I don't quite understand the raison d'etre of this mod, TBH. Everyone died on Peragus, there wasn't a civil war. Why should everything be blown up, and the lights off? It makes no sense at all for the lights to all be off and black fog to be everywhere (you might tone that down a little, at least).

"Peragus isn't creepy enough" doesn't quite cut it, IMO. The whole "creepy" thing is meant to be handled by the Harbinger, which it does adequately enough. Peragus itself is a homage to System Shock, though I suppose we can't expect you p-p-pathetic k-k-kids (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iZMD_eCpEo) to know about the classics. :p

Hehe, except the part where you solve the mystery of why you woke up in a deserted mining facility where all the inhabitants had been murdered by a HK protocol droid.

I guess "nothing" is relative :)
Or the bit where the world is being constantly manipulated from behind the scenes to trap you on the administration level, force you to wait there and remove your options for escape.

With the exception of a few tidbits that you can only access by changing PC gender or alignment, the comment quoted above is applicable to not only the entire game, but every game ever made.
Yep.

If it's possible, is there a way to have the lightmaps configured in a way to allow flickering and dimmed lights?
Not really. You could have all the lights flicker in the same way, or none. You might be able to configure the light textures to flicker "dark", but that's not very effective and would require some fiddly work to get just one or two to do it. Even then, it'd probably be banks of them going rather than individual ones.

jonathan7
09-13-2009, 11:39 AM
If you want my two cents; I would concentrate on making the Harbinger darker - what you've done to Peragus doesn't seem worth the effort. I've always liked Peragus, it has a survival horror feel to it, and you wake up thinking what on earth has gone on before. I remember when Sion first showed up I was like - I'm not ready to fight this dude; I don't even have a lightsaber.

The only thing that has really ever bothered me about Peragus is that the bodies always seemd far too decomposed for the number of days so if you could change them to actual miners that would be great!

If I were you concentrate on the Harbinger and make it much more Event Horizon like - you could have blood staints on the floor (and possibly the walls), maybe a torture room, and possibly have evidence of fightback (or a few survivors/evidence of a last stand in the Escape pod bit, currently there is no real purpose to that side of the ship as far as I can tell).

VarsityPuppet
09-13-2009, 12:42 PM
If you want my two cents; I would concentrate on making the Harbinger darker - what you've done to Peragus doesn't seem worth the effort.

Well when you consider that I only changed 3 values in 1 file (which took less than a minute), the output was well worth the effort.



The only thing that has really ever bothered me about Peragus is that the bodies always seemd far too decomposed for the number of days so if you could change them to actual miners that would be great!


Agreed. It will be done. However, this will actually take a moderate amount of work.


If I were you concentrate on the Harbinger and make it much more Event Horizon like - you could have blood staints on the floor (and possibly the walls), maybe a torture room, and possibly have evidence of fightback (or a few survivors/evidence of a last stand in the Escape pod bit, currently there is no real purpose to that side of the ship as far as I can tell).

Yes, there is no real reason to that side of the ship... which is frankly a little saddening.
Maybe evidence of a stand-in could work... though the idea was to not "add" too much story, and it woudln't be all that much interesting anyways... just an extra couple of dead bodies.

When all else fails though, you can use items to attract people to areas.

Achilles
09-13-2009, 01:25 PM
I've always liked Peragus

*nods*

It's my favorite part of the game.

Yes, there is no real reason to that side of the ship... which is frankly a little saddening.

<snip>

When all else fails though, you can use items to attract people to areas.

Wanna count how many placeables there are with inventory on that module and then make a pretty graph showing how many of them are on "that side of the ship" (and how many of them are *not* on "the other side"). It's almost as though Avellone was channeling you, but in the past. Creepy.

Exile007
09-13-2009, 01:27 PM
I don't quite understand the raison d'etre of this mod, TBH. Everyone died on Peragus, there wasn't a civil war. Why should everything be blown up, and the lights off? It makes no sense at all for the lights to all be off and black fog to be everywhere (you might tone that down a little, at least).

"Peragus isn't creepy enough" doesn't quite cut it, IMO. The whole "creepy" thing is meant to be handled by the Harbinger, which it does adequately enough. Peragus itself is a homage to System Shock, though I suppose we can't expect you p-p-pathetic k-k-kids (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iZMD_eCpEo) to know about the classics. :p


QFT. I actually enjoy Peragus a lot. Yes, the exile doesn't have a lightsaber when roaming the corridors. But Peragus is the only area in TSL where there are no bugs, and it is the most polished area as well. I'll admit that the level can be rather tedious in hacking n slashing across Mining Droids, but watching the holovids and listening to dialog about sabotage pretty cool. :)

Oh, and if the combat in the level, download Shem's Super Enhanced Mod. That will keep you on your toes while at Peragus. ;)

Anyway, on to the topic. The fog looks alright.... but I think the broken light fixtures would have a more subtle, yet effective effect.

^2 cents :)

cwby74
09-13-2009, 02:40 PM
heck the only thing i didnt like about peragus was to many droids that why i changed alot of them from droids to sith assasins and commando's

Sith Holocron
09-13-2009, 03:06 PM
If I were you concentrate on the Harbinger and make it much more Event Horizon like - you could have blood staints on the floor (and possibly the walls), maybe a torture room, and possibly have evidence of fightback (or a few survivors/evidence of a last stand in the Escape pod bit, currently there is no real purpose to that side of the ship as far as I can tell).


Hopefully there wouldn't be a Experimental Gravity Drive Room with huge, spherical spike laden walls in the Harbinger.

ShinDangaioh
09-13-2009, 04:12 PM
Why would the Harbinger have a torture room? It is a Republic warship that was commandeered by the Sith about five days before the game began.

It should have more of an Alien feel(the orignal movie Alien). It gets darker as you go through the ship's levels.

jonathan7
09-13-2009, 04:29 PM
Why would the Harbinger have a torture room? It is a Republic warship that was commandeered by the Sith about five days before the game began.

Because the Sith are nasty and sadistic and thats the kind of thing they would do to amuse themselves.

It should have more of an Alien feel(the orignal movie Alien). It gets darker as you go through the ship's levels.

So let me get this straight... You knock the idea of a torture room because its a Republic Warship, but then think it should look like this;

http://application.denofgeek.com/images/m/alien/giger_alien_derelict_cockpit.jpg

Darth Avlectus
09-13-2009, 04:35 PM
OH-Kay, forgive me that I did not read the wall of text above, not feeling well. Ehh, maybe some more blood stains in the vicinity where the bodies are. And I guess more burns and shot marks and just destruction in general in these vicinities as well.

Don't go *too* overboard, as I still do like the clean prim and proper space station look peragus has in some areas. Just in the kill areas where victims are, some more obvious forensic signs of struggle and destruction true to HK droid style: efficient, but have no issues with making a target's end as violent as possible. ;)

Darth Payne
09-13-2009, 04:36 PM
Why would the Harbinger have a torture room? It is a Republic warship that was commandeered by the Sith about five days before the game began.

Perhaps a conversion of the med-bay would work?

The sith could have transferred the various torture tools when they came on board.

ShinDangaioh
09-13-2009, 05:54 PM
Because the Sith are nasty and sadistic and thats the kind of thing they would do to amuse themselves.



So let me get this straight... You knock the idea of a torture room because its a Republic Warship, but then think it should look like this;

That would actually fit in better with the Knights of the Old Republic with Exar Kun, Nomi Sunrider, Master Thon, and the others. The technology in the comics before the video games came out had an organic feel to them.

TriggerGod
09-13-2009, 06:06 PM
Don't go *too* overboard, as I still do like the clean prim and proper space station look peragus has in some areas. Just in the kill areas where victims are, some more obvious forensic signs of struggle and destruction true to HK droid style: efficient, but have no issues with making a target's end as violent as possible. ;)

Peragus: there won't be many, if any blood marks. My idea was that HK knocked out the lights from some computer, causing mass confusion while the mining droids shot them in the back. And hot, ionized gas (plasma) tends to cauterize, like a lightsaber does, so I doubt that there wouldn't be a lot of blood smeared across the floor, like a body part (preferably a torso) was dragged from the kolto tank room all the way to Atton after being mauled by a chainsaw. No matter how cool it is.

Harbinger: The Sith Assassins did it nice and quiet like. As Kreia said. "There are no signs of battle..." So there'd be no reason to have blood in the area.

And as for a torture room, I doubt that the assassins or Sion would bring any sith instruments of torture from their ship over to the rep ship (and, if I remember the records on the Harbinger right, the republic probably wouldn't have brought the torture devices onto their peaceful ship either) that they'd only be using for a little bit, in order to find the Exile that Kreia stole from under their feet.