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JuniorModder
09-29-2009, 06:32 PM
HI! I have had a great idea for TC mod for TSL.

It would take place a mere 3 years after TSL.

You would wake up on Telos Citadel Station, where you would embark on a journey to help rebuild the Jedi Order.

The mod would be fully voiced. I have specially designed companions dialog to fit around existing wav files from the characters.

And since I only have limited dialog from the re-used companions, I have decided that the mod would have to follow the actuall canon, being that the Exile was a female lightsider. And in the real canon, the Exile traveled with both Mical, and Brianna.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Brand New companions:

B1-D1:
A protocol droid to fill you in on things that have happened since TSL.

Captain Grent:
A rodian who works for the TSF on the Citadel Station.

Tenneth Carson:
A famous teenage swoop racer who lives on Onderon.

Helayna Lee:
A young Arkanian Scientist.

R9-PE:
A small sensor droid created by Helayna.

Master Na'adia:
A twilek jedi master from Onderon.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Well-Known Companions:

Brianna, the Handmaiden and Mical, the Disciple:
The Exile left all of her companions with one last request, to rebuild the Jedi Order.
Brianna and Mical went to the Jedi Temple on Coruscant to do just that.

Visas Marr, and HK-47:

Visas and HK went to the the planet Telerath to try and rebuild the jedi order.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Planets:

Telos Citadel Station:
To celebrate their new fuel source, TCS began redesigning their look, and overall functionality. EDIT: I meant redesigning.

Telos HK factory:
The PC and party travel to this factory to find a Jedi master.

Arkania:
The cast of characters come here to find another Jedi master. They also meet Helayna, and her sensor droid, R9-PE.

Coruscant:
Our heroes come here to find Jedi that are willing to help them on their mission to restore the Jedi Order.

Onderon:
When the famous swoop racer, Tenneth Carson, becomes the victim of sabotage, the PC helps him, in addition to finding a Jedi Master.

Unnamed Sith Ship:
The main characters are captured and imprisoned on a Sith ship. With the help of the Exile's former companion, Mira, they come face to face with a Sith Lord.

Draethos:
As the sith ship explodes, the PC and his party, make their exit in the last escape-pod. They land on the desolate, and death-ridden planet of Draethos. They are attacked by the planet natives, and the only way out, is through a cave steeped in the dark side.

--------------------------------------------------------------

And tell me if this idea sucks badly, Mical and Brianna have a very small romance.
I thought of this, because they both have romance dialog, but it would be very cheesy to have either of them have a romance with the PC.

Anyhow, I've been editing dlg, uct, and recording new dialog. BUT, I have NO idea how to reskin anything, and need other voice actors. I have people chosen for Tenneth and Helayna already.

I am working on a google site to show my progress. It is still very unfinished. http://sites.google.com/site/thenewjediordermod/

Rtas Vadum
09-29-2009, 06:43 PM
I could do a few reskins, if you'd like. I could also help with some of the story, if you'd need that too.

JuniorModder
09-29-2009, 07:09 PM
That would be great! I posted requests for Helayna, Captian Grent, and Tenneth reskins over at the Mod Requests forums.

jonathan7
09-29-2009, 07:53 PM
Ok, well having posted a million times with very similar posts I have decided to create a blog for such times... Click Me (http://www.lucasforums.com/blog.php?b=621)

Well, I don't think a week goes by when another "Total Conversion" Mod is announced as underway in Holowan. I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but Holowan is actually a rather morbid place - it is a graveyard littered with ambitious failed modding projects.

This is not meant to discourage individuals from modding, nor is it meant to be demeaning it is just I think a matter of stating the truth of the matter, and I’m calling it, as I see it...

The story goes something like this; an ambitious and very inexperienced modder arrives on the scene with an a head full of ideas (which aren’t fleshed out too much) and announces a Total Conversion mod. Generally the Veteran Modders around will offer the standard advice; get to know the modding scene slowly build your way up from smaller to larger mods. The veteran modders and community legends started out in this manner. This advice is generally ignored and unheeded; often an illogical anger is harboured towards those who have commented “negatively” on the Total Conversion Mod.

The fact however remains that Holowan is littered with attempts at Total Conversion mods, and there has yet to be a successful one; all have failed. For example Silver Edge's Brother Hood of Shadow (and Solomons Revenge) both add "only" 4 hours or so of game play, and both took several years to complete. There have been those who have argued that there have been “successful TC’s” however this, I think actually shows a lack of knowledge of what a TC really is and also what ones definition of “success” truly is. However I stand by my statement that there has yet to be a successful TC.

As I have said before “The definition of Total Conversion is; "A total conversion is a mod of an existing game that replaces almost all of the artistic assets in the original game, and sometimes core aspects of game play, in some cases creating a game in a completely different genre from the original." - So no, Trex's the Jedi Masters is not by definition a Total Conversion Mod, and while it was undoubtedly a labour of love and had a lot of work put into it and has potential, it is not anywhere near the level of "very good" for KotOR mods; and being an Admin at KotOR Files may I hope mean I know a thing or two about this...” This post fleshes out more what a "Total Conversion" is or is not.

This is not to knock anyone’s ambitions but I am very sceptical about Total Conversion mods, I would love for people to prove me wrong. But please heed the advice of the Veteran Modders; make smaller mods, learn how to mod. Meanwhile you can be planning out your Total Conversion, the Story and the dialogue all of which needs to be pretty much fleshed out before you start on the project.

There are only two “TC” – or I prefer the term MGM (Major Game Mod) – which is more accurate, which I think stand a chance of being completed. These are DV and Logan’s mods - you can find their threads in Holowan and please review their threads so you can be under no illusions as to how massive a project a “TC” really is!

Remember the best mods take a lot of time - there are a lot of rushed mods that are released and frankly the quality is poor and a waste of time; if your going to do modding do to things for me a) Have Fun! b) Take your time, good things really do come to those who wait!

JuniorModder
09-29-2009, 07:59 PM
Ok, well having posted a million times with very similar posts I have decided to create a blog for such times... Click Me (http://www.lucasforums.com/blog.php?b=621)

That's why I didn't say [WIP]. It is a work in progress, but it won't be anywhere near finished for a long time. Right now I am just doing small things so that in the future, I will already have those finished. And I have been working on this quite a bit before I posted this thread.

jonathan7
09-29-2009, 08:03 PM
That's why I didn't say [WIP]. It is a work in progress,

WIP stands for Work In Progress - so I'm not quite sure what you mean by this :confused:

but it won't be anywhere near finished for a long time. Right now I am just doing small things so that in the future, I will already have those finished. And I have been working on this quite a bit before I posted this thread.

So why post this now? I remain confused, especially if you are going to get others to work on things for the mod, what is the intention of this thread?

JuniorModder
09-29-2009, 08:11 PM
WIP stands for Work In Progress - so I'm not quite sure what you mean by this :confused:



So why post this now? I remain confused, especially if you are going to get others to work on things for the mod, what is the intention of this thread?

Having [WIP] in front of the thread gives the impression that you have more work done than I have. For me at least. I might add a [WIP] to the thread when I have more work done.

I posted it because I wanted to see if other people thought it was a good idea.

HdVaderII
09-29-2009, 08:12 PM
Ok, well having posted a million times with very similar posts I have decided to create a blog for such times...

You should sticky it man.

jonathan7
09-29-2009, 08:25 PM
Having [WIP] in front of the thread gives the impression that you have more work done than I have. For me at least. I might add a [WIP] to the thread when I have more work done.

I posted it because I wanted to see if other people thought it was a good idea.

Very well, I think you need to flesh out the story a lot more; what is your story? What are you trying to convey to the player? Show us the planning, how LS and DS paths fit into things, or are you just having LS? Give me a detailed breakdown of your charachters, your knowledge of them; how are they going to respond to the PC going LS/DS. Who are the bad guys (if any?) etc etc

You should sticky it man.

I'll leave that to RedHawke to decide :)

No use, they will ignore us anyway... or I'm just cynical. ;) -RH

JuniorModder
09-29-2009, 08:28 PM
I'll edit the first post.

EDIT: Here is the url:

http://sites.google.com/site/thenewjediordermod/

Lord of Hunger
09-29-2009, 11:15 PM
I really must agree with Jonathan7 on this. If you are going to create a total conversion, start out with a small mod first.

In fact, if you feel like making a TC, why not group up with the two hundred other people who want to make TC's on Holowan and just combine your ideas and efforts? You'll probably get a lot done (provided you can develop team work).

disbeliever
09-30-2009, 08:27 AM
Coming from someone who started modding only within the last year, its hard. Very hard.

I think the biggest hurdle is not technical or skill, but motivation. People mod for fun, as a hobby. We dont get paid for it, so other than personal interest, there is no driving force. You dont get a pay check at the end of the week for good modding. So you start off with a grand idea, and you might even have the skills to accomplish your idea. And you start off with both feet running. Then you hit a road block, maybe have to redo an area. Then you find yourself losing motivation and steam. Your updates go from daily to weekly and then sporadically.

I am not trying to discourage you in anyway, just stating the painful reality. Start small, and as I found out recently, find a "modding buddy" you can use to help each other stay motivated. Work is much less painful when you can share it :)

VarsityPuppet
09-30-2009, 09:34 AM
Coming from someone who started modding only within the last year, its hard. Very hard.

I think the biggest hurdle is not technical or skill, but motivation. People mod for fun, as a hobby. We dont get paid for it, so other than personal interest, there is no driving force. You dont get a pay check at the end of the week for good modding. So you start off with a grand idea, and you might even have the skills to accomplish your idea. And you start off with both feet running. Then you hit a road block, maybe have to redo an area. Then you find yourself losing motivation and steam. Your updates go from daily to weekly and then sporadically.

I am not trying to discourage you in anyway, just stating the painful reality. Start small, and as I found out recently, find a "modding buddy" you can use to help each other stay motivated. Work is much less painful when you can share it :)

^ QFT

I'm not sure why every new guy (and his mother) wants to pull off a Total Conversion right from the get-go. I've been modding on an off for about 4 months and I've even gotten tired of it on 3 different occasions. I've thought about TCs, but my mods are nowhere near that scope of hard work.

Plus, I gotta be honest... I'm not liking your storyline that much. As is, I think it would not warrant more than 1 playthrough. You wanted to see what people thought, and I'm just stating my opinion. Take it or leave it.

JuniorModder
09-30-2009, 11:12 AM
^ QFT

I'm not sure why every new guy (and his mother) wants to pull off a Total Conversion right from the get-go. I've been modding on an off for about 4 months and I've even gotten tired of it on 3 different occasions. I've thought about TCs, but my mods are nowhere near that scope of hard work.

Plus, I gotta be honest... I'm not liking your storyline that much. As is, I think it would not warrant more than 1 playthrough. You wanted to see what people thought, and I'm just stating my opinion. Take it or leave it.

I was waiting for someone to criticize it! Okay, can you explain why you don't like about it, and how I could improve it. Thanks for your opinions! :)

And to everyone reminding me how difficult, and long the mod will take, I know.
I have personally gone through these forums and seen them. But my dad is a programmer, and he is trying to teach me basics. And since I don't have to worry about work yet, and I'm homeschooled, I have a lot more time to work on this. I understand and agree with you. But want to try to get something done.

VarsityPuppet
09-30-2009, 11:56 AM
I was waiting for someone to criticize it! Okay, can you explain why you don't like about it, and how I could improve it. Thanks for your opinions! :)

And to everyone reminding me how difficult, and long the mod will take, I know.
I have personally gone through these forums and seen them. But my dad is a programmer, and he is trying to teach me basics. And since I don't have to worry about work yet, and I'm homeschooled, I have a lot more time to work on this. I understand and agree with you. But want to try to get something done.

Homeschooled eh? This will certainly help with the 'time issue'. Alot of modders are less active now that school's started up...


Okay, let's see.. what exactly do/don't I like about the idea...

1. - I think the names need a little work. Some of them are good, some are okay (and just need a bit more Star Warsin' up), and some of them are... just meh. For example, when I create Star Wars characters, I usually take simple names, and then spell them differently, sort of like you did with "Helayna". I assume "Helayna" is a variant of "Helena" right? If it were me deciding the names, I would take it a step further and maybe make it "Illena". I'm not saying that's what her name should be, but it's one of the many processes I use to (at least try to) come up with good names.

2. - What's the point of the story/mod? If you want people to play your mod, you're going to need something attractive to bring them once, and of course bring 'em back again. In my opinion, finding a bunch of jedi masters wouldn't be particularly enthralling... especially since that's what you've done in TSL really. If you're rebuilding the jedi order, wouldn't that consist of finding untrained force sensitives and training new jedi?

ur.. well that's all I can think of for now. As I said before.. take it or leave it.



Oh wait, one more thing.. I would suggest you invest in a more unique username. JuniorModder is a bit of a generic one. It's sort of an unwritten rule, but having a unique (and optionally cool) name gives you more mod cred :) Again, it's up to you, and I'm unsure as to how many others share the same view.

JuniorModder
09-30-2009, 12:21 PM
Homeschooled eh? This will certainly help with the 'time issue'. Alot of modders are less active now that school's started up...


Okay, let's see.. what exactly do/don't I like about the idea...

1. - I think the names need a little work. Some of them are good, some are okay (and just need a bit more Star Warsin' up), and some of them are... just meh. For example, when I create Star Wars characters, I usually take simple names, and then spell them differently, sort of like you did with "Helayna". I assume "Helayna" is a variant of "Helena" right? If it were me deciding the names, I would take it a step further and maybe make it "Illena". I'm not saying that's what her name should be, but it's one of the many processes I use to (at least try to) come up with good names.

2. - What's the point of the story/mod? If you want people to play your mod, you're going to need something attractive to bring them once, and of course bring 'em back again. In my opinion, finding a bunch of jedi masters wouldn't be particularly enthralling... especially since that's what you've done in TSL really. If you're rebuilding the jedi order, wouldn't that consist of finding untrained force sensitives and training new jedi?

ur.. well that's all I can think of for now. As I said before.. take it or leave it.



Oh wait, one more thing.. I would suggest you invest in a more unique username. JuniorModder is a bit of a generic one. It's sort of an unwritten rule, but having a unique (and optionally cool) name gives you more mod cred :) Again, it's up to you, and I'm unsure as to how many others share the same view.

I left out a lot of things like training new jedi in the first post. I was just trying to give everyone a general idea. On the google site (once I'm finished it), I will go into more detail.

HdVaderII
09-30-2009, 07:12 PM
I left out a lot of things like training new jedi in the first post. I was just trying to give everyone a general idea. On the google site (once I'm finished it), I will go into more detail.

It normally helps to have a well and fully planned idea to present to the community, if you expect to have people interested in and or thinking of helping out.

JuniorModder
09-30-2009, 08:44 PM
It normally helps to have a well and fully planned idea to present to the community, if you expect to have people interested in and or thinking of helping out.

I have a well and fully planned idea, but I didn't want to have a mammoth post that no one would want to read. My first post contains a nice, general idea, will give everyone my basic outline, and if they are interested in it, then they can go to my site to get a better view of the mod.

Watcher07
10-02-2009, 01:37 AM
I have a well and fully planned idea...

First off, let me give you some praise. You've got some drive and a fully fleshed out and planned idea. A TC is a big project, and having direction and drive are two key elements.

Next, let me criticize some. Your idea appears to be largely a retelling of KOTOR 2 even down to the characters and companions. A TC as Jonathan7 pointed out is massive in scope and exactly as the name implies, a complete alteration even down to the basic storyline. Let's check some of the similarities:

Captain Grent - A TSF captain on Citadel Station.
Lt. Grenn - A TSF lieutenant on Citadel Station.

Helayna Lee - A young Arkanian Scientist (with a companion droid)
Bao-Dur - A Zabrak Engineer (with a companion droid)

R9-PE - A small sensor droid created by Helayna Lee
Remote - A small sensor droid created by Bao-Dur

Tenneth Carson - A swoop racer on Onderon (framed for a crime)
Dhagon Gent - A doctor on Onderon (framed for a crime)

Telos Citadel Station - Undesigning their look (not sure what that means, but why use Telos again?). I won't pretend to know if there is any lore attached to the fate of Telos, but based off the game I would imagine that with a canon ending, Telos would end up remaining a successful platform for terraforming operations to continue, repurposing it just because of a new fuel source seems.....bizarre.

Telos HK Factory - The PC and party go there to find a new Jedi Master? HK was exclusively built for Revan, when his knock-offs were created, they were meant to infiltrate the Republic to locate the Exile and eliminate her. The one HK factory is more than likely the only one that would exist. They had alot of droids in the factory, and since their mission is subtlety, there's no real purpose for a secondary factory. Also, why would a Jedi Master be there? The main game had you going to areas where the planet was able to disguise the presence of a Jedi Master so they could hide, this is three years later so what is a master doing in the factory? Have they always been there or is it a "force"d confrontation? Assuming the restored content mods as canon, the factory has been largely destroyed.

Arkania just looks like more of the same as far as the story goes.

Coruscant has you finding Jedi to help restore the order. Between Kotor I and II, it seems a stretch to assume there are a whole lot of Jedi left. Coruscant would be an excellent place to blend in though, lots of life to cover over their presence. It seems better that you're only looking for regular Jedi here than masters though, as the second game had some of the highest masters in hiding and even they ultimately got wiped out.

Onderon has a swoop racer facing sabotage that you help and in return end up finding a jedi master. Thats pretty much a carbon copy of Onderon from the second game, with a swoop racer in place of the doctor.

Unnamed Sith Ship brings the team face to face with a Sith Lord. In the first game, it was the classic Star Wars event. Captured on board an enemy ship, the team organizes but is brought face to face with a far more powerful presence, then escapes. It was excellent that they had Malak survive the encounter in the first one, scripted though it was, it just gave you a sense that there was a far worse battle coming with him. The second game had you fight Nihilus, again an excellent confrontation (the battle was fairly week imho) but you defeat him and escape. But doing the captured and escape bit feels a bit too much now. It could definitely be reworked to make it fresh, but just redoing whats been done before is a bit lackadaisical.

Draethos feels like a jump from the Harbinger in Kotor I straight to the Undercity, but it still has some good promise on what could be done with it.

Now don't take all this criticism too hard, like I said, basically it seems like you're just using the framework in place to retell much of the same story, but if thats true, then you're not doing a total conversion, you're doing a retelling of the same story, which isn't good or bad, it just is what it is.

For a complete and total conversion, you should look at expanding your story in new and unseen directions. I've been around the modding community for a few years and done a couple re-skins I've released to public and done quite a few compatibility patches of major mods for my own personal use, so I know very well the limitations of the game. Its extremely difficult to come up with new areas, but less so with new characters. Silveredge did a brilliant job with his Brotherhood of Shadow mod. I've played through Kotor so many times I can't begin to imagine, but his use of different modules in different areas sometimes left me wondering where his new one came from (korriban wastes from dantooine plains, amazing transformation). A reskin job on a module can transform it into a brand new place that draws the old hands into your new story. I never want to use the word "only" in the same sentence about his mod, but it adds just a few hours of serious game time to complete, and took him a very, very long time.

Again, not trying to discourage you, but it helps to sit back and realize the scope of what you're attempting. You might consider altering the story from locating these Jedi masters to what you've stated it is, which is the rebuilding of the Jedi order. Essentially you could have the PC tracking down Jedi, or even just force sensitives that he/she has to train to use the force. This could be accomplished through forced accompanied quests or even dueling sessions, so on and so forth. As you gain influence, they get a deeper knowledge of the force. By the end of the mod, you would basically be a master and would have accomplished what the mod set out to do, rebuild the Jedi order or Sith order depending on how you lean.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, best of luck on the project, and there's a whole group of forumites that will always be happy to help.

JuniorModder
10-02-2009, 11:45 AM
When you lay it out like that it does seem pretty unoriginal.
But:

Tenneth is not accused of a crime. His swoop bike is sabotaged, and Na'adia saves him. He also never knew Na'adia before then.

And with the Telos Citadel Station, I meant redesigning. I wanted to make the Station a fun place to explore by reskinning it.

I think that there will be one Jedi Master, and that is Na'adia, but there is something about her that you don't know yet. To find out, visit her page on the site. I will change it so you recruit and train new jedi, rather than just finding masters.

I hadn't even noticed the similarity between Grenn and Grent! I'll rename him.

I really suggest you visit the site. I admit, there are a lot of similarities, but I have a lot of fresh, new ideas for my mod too.

Rtas Vadum
10-02-2009, 12:09 PM
I think that there will be one Jedi Master, and that is Na'adia, but there is something about her that you don't know yet. To find out, visit her page on the site. I will change it so you recruit and train new jedi, rather than just finding masters.



The part about Na'aida is interesting, but it really is the sort of thing that you would want to have in your drafts of the story, not out in the open where anyone could see it. Not because its a bad bit of info about her, but because that is the sort of surprise that drive the story of many games, thought it isn't a "new" idea for a certain character that seems to be loyal to the player, suddenly change sides and be against the player. If many knew that Kreia was would be the one to betray the player at the end,(if it was a little less of a shock than the Jedi Master's betrayal), the game would seem like the prequels, in that if you really watch it, you get the Palpatine=Darth Sidious/Emperor connection in Episode I(which I did, without much investment into the story).

Btw, Some of the head models you've chosen for your characters aren't bad, but it seems that they aren't the best models, namely when they might need DS transitions. Any others you'd like to use? For the Rodian, that isn't a problem. Though it might be a better endeavor to use another alien species, since even though it is possible, its unlikely that a Rodian would be part of the TSF. TSL doesn't have many alien species part of the TSF, though its obvious that some members might've been .

JuniorModder
10-02-2009, 12:24 PM
What other species should I use?

Rtas Vadum
10-02-2009, 01:52 PM
What other species should I use?

Likely a Twi'lek, because it would be expected for a captain in the TSF to wear a uniform, and it would be slightly easier for a Twi'lek to wear one, than a Rodian. That, and since Twi'leks can readily use most, if not all body models in the game, they can also wear armor and such, without the need for custom skins.

JuniorModder
10-02-2009, 03:05 PM
Good Idea. I will probably make him into a twi'lek. But couldn't I just say that he is a subspecies like Bao-dur, so he can't wear all different clothing.

Rtas Vadum
10-02-2009, 03:12 PM
Good Idea. I will probably make him into a twi'lek. But couldn't I just say that he is a subspecies like Bao-dur, so he can't wear all different clothing.

Well, the reasoning for Bao-Dur not being able to wear certain armors or Jedi robes, isn't because of his species. Its because of the fact that he has the prosthetic arm, and some models(such as the Jedi Robes), don't have a special model that has the arm instead of the normal arms.

JuniorModder
10-02-2009, 03:16 PM
Well, the reasoning for Bao-Dur not being able to wear certain armors or Jedi robes, isn't because of his species. Its because of the fact that he has the prosthetic arm, and some models(such as the Jedi Robes), don't have a special model that has the arm instead of the normal arms.

Oh, I thought that the subspecies 'Zabrak' made it so he wouldn't be able to wear them. Good thing I don't have any prosthetic limbs to worry about.

I'll look at the male twi'lek appearances and pick one for him.

VarsityPuppet
10-02-2009, 09:37 PM
Watcher07 said what I couldn't put into words.

The Twi'lek head would work with pretty much any body model.. so I think that's a good route to take.

Here's an interesting idea though: you could temporarily use Bao's body models to emulate Tenneth maybe losing an arm from the crash? idk, just a thought...


EDIT: I read part of the story that you had written on your google page. I like the TCS section, but I feel it gets a little formulaic once it's decided to go to Coruscant.

Watcher07
10-03-2009, 12:01 AM
EDIT: I read part of the story that you had written on your google page. I like the TCS section, but I feel it gets a little formulaic once it's decided to go to Coruscant.

I checked out the site, but unfortunately I find the TCS section confusing, I agree with the rest of the quote though. I like the idea of just being a no namer working on TCS, excellent start. You start to lose me with the Dark Jedi attacking and taking hostages. Why is he holding them hostage? Why is he attacking TCS? Why would a lowly TCS Captain make a dark jedi flee? If he is holding alot of hostages, there wouldn't be enough force cages. If he's holding a few prisoners, how did the PC get lumped in with the group? i.e. whats in that location that the dark jedi is really after? Why is a TCS captain suddenly leaving his post at TCS with the PC after an attack? Why as a no-namer would the pc who's just workin and payin the bills at TCS suddenly leave to go to the Jedi Temple? As for the droid and getting the Ebon Hawk, well that can easily be written off as the guiding power of the Force. I know that your site doesn't have the full story you have going on, that its just a blurb, but the chain of events is a little fantastical to follow. One or two strange things can be written off via the Force or whatnot, but this is alot of things conspiring to make the story move in the direction you want, instead of having the story progress in a more realistic chain of events.

The great thing about Star Wars is that it literally is a retelling of ancient myths, legends, and concepts. An all powerful force that binds and controls things, a father who succumbs to evil and the son who redeems him. The boy with untold power and promise who falls to the most basic emotion; fear. The princess who falls in love with the scoundrel. A peasant who grows up to become a knight. A circle of knights who guard the peace and dole out justice to those who deserve it. All these things are stories we've heard and seen in different ways, but they were weaved together to create a multi-episode space opera. One of the keys to plugging into that legacy isn't so much to inject a story into the universe and make it go where you want it, its to take an incredibly simple concept and let that universe flesh it out for you. If you create a series of events just to get from point A to point B, even the most avid gamer will feel the jarring edges of the story as they're pushed to it. But if your story draws them into it through subtlety, then they'll naturally find their way to where you want them, and they'll be engrossed the whole time.

Going to Coruscant you meet another Jedi master, ok I'll bite, its Coruscant after all. He tells you that you can use the force and gets you going on training. Shortly after he lets you go on a mission to locate other masters and bring them back. This bit of the story is also confusing. As a fairly fresh padawan, its unlikely any master would let you go so easily, there is still the threat of young force-users giving into temptation and falling to the dark side. The council let Revan go, but ONLY because they needed him to re-trace his steps to the Star Forge without him realizing it. He was also incredibly proficient with the Force even as a padawan the second time because he was so in tune with it. Now you have Brianna and Mical going along and taking the PC with them, and I think thats a great idea. That to me seems more realistic to have two senior members dragging along a newbie. Gathering the masters though, again, feels out of place. Also, what is it about the PC that makes them unique? So the PC can use the Force, alot of other people can too. In Kotor I the PC was Revan, in Kotor II the PC was the Exile, a close associate of Revan. Kreia basically called Revan the heart of the force and the Exile the death of it, so what profound role in the force does this PC play?

Master Na'adia is essentially filling the Kreia role in your story which goes back to my original post. Your thread is about an idea you have for the game, but even after reviewing the site it still feels like a very recycled Kotor II. IMHO I felt that though Kotor II had a good story, it lacked the immersion that the original Kotor had. I'm sure you have more stuff written down for you story that might answer alot of questions I have, but as I stated earlier, it feels like your storyline is just moving from point A to B to C without any regard for the flow of storytelling because the main points of the story are pretty scattered and hard to reach logically.

Now for some things I'm liking about this mod. You've demonstrated a very open-mindedness about feedback. Sometimes these mods come around and despite some good feedback, the OP shuts people down because they're so locked into their vision. Your back and forth with Rtas Vadum shows that you're listening pretty clearly. I wouldn't expect you to do anything I even suggest either, what I'm suggesting is meant to be taken with a grain of salt because A) I'm not attempting a TC nor have I ever. B) I've never put out to public any of the Kotor storylines I've made, and C) as far as modding goes, beyond skinning and reworking 2DA's, UTI, and UTC files, I'm really not that hot of a modder. But back on track, you're keeping an open mind, and thats really good.

You've laid a good framework for creating your mod, that being the story framework already in place in the game. Alot of writers use an inspirational method of writing to help with writers block. It was portrayed excellently in the movie Finding Forrester. A boy is given a manuscript that Sean Connery asks him to start copying on the typewriter. The goal of the exercise is to just get past the initial hangup of writing and let your mind leave the source material to create your own new stuff. Tackling this mod in the way you are right now I still don't see as a TC, but it might through the course of its creation ultimately lead you from what you have now to what a TC really is, which is that complete rework of the story and characters. I think your drive and determination are great, and open mindedness to the community is also a big help, and am really interested to see what you ultimately end up doing with this. Again, best of luck on your project.

*EDIT* Yeah.....I'm long-winded....sorry.

VarsityPuppet
10-03-2009, 02:22 AM
I checked out the site, but unfortunately I find the TCS section confusing...

[LARGE CHUNK OF TEXT]

...Again, best of luck on your project.

*EDIT* Yeah.....I'm long-winded....sorry.

^QFT

This guy knows what he's talking about. I believe that if you work real hard on your story, and put a lot of genuine time into it, you can come out with a really great story. Watcher pretty much stated almost everything important to a Star Wars storyline: the rehashing of old myths fleshed out in an interactive world.

Darth Avlectus
10-03-2009, 04:17 AM
I'm just getting started, myself.

Motivation and not so much finding time as it is *making* the time and commitment. As was stated above, we do this for leisure and not as necessity to live. Some of this will require tools that are not free. Red Hawke, cynical lad he is, is right on when he says a total conversion is beyond the scope of any one person to complete alone.

Even as I exercise my strengths on other things: graphical skinning, sound effects/voices I am still learning as I go. I have learned I may have to acquire modeling and animations for some things I want to do.

I have ideas, but right now I am in the exploratory phase. I'm starting small while asking around on various tidbits as I home-in on what I want to do. Making the script for (or planning) for your idea is after appraising the situation, then executing it comes after. Finally preview and proofread for errors. Then release. This is basically how it is done, but even this is a gross oversimplification.

A starting point: use the search forum and look for relevant threads. Then read tutorials. Then get familiar with it. And it goes from there.

Slstoev
10-03-2009, 02:14 PM
People of i thouhght about this why don't your recruit two mod teams twice as less work twice more faster and it would be great because people won't have to worry about time.An dyou will have recruit a second leader.The first team works to the half and the other works at the same time from the half to the end

JuniorModder
10-03-2009, 06:32 PM
Thanks for your comments everyone! I will take what you have said into consideration.
I just got back from a weenie RV trip, but I also learned some basics of reskinning. And, the recycled itea of finding the Jedi masters, was me basicly just jotting my raw ideas to paper. And another idea I had was having new DS companions to replace the ones that leave you if you go bad. Also, I noticed that if I turn Captain Grent into a twi'lek, that will make two of them on board (Na'adia is a twi'lek also).

About arranging a team, I need to organize everything first. I have a bunch of dlg, uti, nss, uct, and tga files to put in the right places on the computer. Then I need to work more on the site. THEN I can start getting people to help (and don't hesitate to volunteer! :laughing:)

JuniorModder
10-14-2009, 03:16 PM
(In Farnsworth voice) Good news everyone!

I have found a voice for Helayna! Yay. She likes the KotOR and was happy to voice her!



JuniorModder

VarsityPuppet
10-15-2009, 12:46 AM
Good to hear! Would it be possible to hear some voice clips maybe? just to see where this is going?

JuniorModder
10-15-2009, 12:26 PM
I will record some with her soon. ;) She has a pretty high voice though. I hope it won't sound weird when the voice is integrated into the game.
And just in case I forgot to tell you, I am voicing Tenneth. And I have a simple, but easy way of making B1-D1.
But that is literally the only voices I got so far.

JuniorModder

JuniorModder
10-19-2009, 07:12 PM
I have early pictures of Helayna and B1-D1.

http://8203931535988965073-a-1802744773732722657-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/thenewjediordermod/characters/helayna/Copy%20of%20swkotor2%202009-10-19%2017-57-25-29.bmp?attachauth=ANoY7cr7lwqIeAOLAElW5StUucoS8Bya qqDQQZMUEutUWwQIhAxTgksmClHZBSiaVFp1dt65ZM2vgFMTk1 zeiRelMjCOIrtJe5no67VFTopC7xsPVzymT0NZgPYckgHt41ef Rs9bB-4fJ8nYWi0OJKLhn0sBotwzp9yCB6L2tjEU9ad_Y7LjxTDYCRB4 fXb5kuEVvIU1tIp6Hd0VTBp8gwyLyeqJW4BEWObpRoH0g0TxGG qvtFwMmpXAMUeOuuLyjI3FZ9Ro_hIuJ7rbdoIMMhpbKkN1dZ47 TA%3D%3D&attredirects=0
http://8203931535988965073-a-1802744773732722657-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/thenewjediordermod/characters/b1-d1/swkotor2%202009-10-19%2017-57-25-29.bmp?attachauth=ANoY7cpfWAEiLh9t69qffZODLNVaGjIp Nj3qUbImtUj-dRsGmJHSJhuV6OE7uaYgw66W9kgN6JakiPkCJwPh_lo4aAkL8X gnsglWtkEFhir0s_wxGbeKCYRUX8mxNpXD0MK3kX7J4abQK8U6 WeM1OYiELIoI-Zcwt_CSiv7Kyl1ckIlD0yfCAHHl_vNgzm0eoYpsh-PTJN_MoKMDTp2kZcQxtS_SgRZ0bczi0z2jS8nu4-1PRICrzb0VTNOATBzDgyRbbTR2GKaL&attredirects=0

I don't know how happy I am with Helayna though. I can't figure out how to make her eyelashes brown.

And I just realized that Onderon does not have the Ebon hawk on it. Is it possible to put in there? If not than I need to think of some reason that you don't go there with the Ebon Hawk.
JuniorModder

Rtas Vadum
10-19-2009, 07:56 PM
I have early pictures of Helayna and B1-D1.

http://8203931535988965073-a-1802744773732722657-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/thenewjediordermod/characters/helayna/Copy%20of%20swkotor2%202009-10-19%2017-57-25-29.bmp?attachauth=ANoY7cr7lwqIeAOLAElW5StUucoS8Bya qqDQQZMUEutUWwQIhAxTgksmClHZBSiaVFp1dt65ZM2vgFMTk1 zeiRelMjCOIrtJe5no67VFTopC7xsPVzymT0NZgPYckgHt41ef Rs9bB-4fJ8nYWi0OJKLhn0sBotwzp9yCB6L2tjEU9ad_Y7LjxTDYCRB4 fXb5kuEVvIU1tIp6Hd0VTBp8gwyLyeqJW4BEWObpRoH0g0TxGG qvtFwMmpXAMUeOuuLyjI3FZ9Ro_hIuJ7rbdoIMMhpbKkN1dZ47 TA%3D%3D&attredirects=0
http://8203931535988965073-a-1802744773732722657-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/thenewjediordermod/characters/b1-d1/swkotor2%202009-10-19%2017-57-25-29.bmp?attachauth=ANoY7cpfWAEiLh9t69qffZODLNVaGjIp Nj3qUbImtUj-dRsGmJHSJhuV6OE7uaYgw66W9kgN6JakiPkCJwPh_lo4aAkL8X gnsglWtkEFhir0s_wxGbeKCYRUX8mxNpXD0MK3kX7J4abQK8U6 WeM1OYiELIoI-Zcwt_CSiv7Kyl1ckIlD0yfCAHHl_vNgzm0eoYpsh-PTJN_MoKMDTp2kZcQxtS_SgRZ0bczi0z2jS8nu4-1PRICrzb0VTNOATBzDgyRbbTR2GKaL&attredirects=0

I don't know how happy I am with Helayna though. I can't figure out how to make her eyelashes brown.

And I just realized that Onderon does not have the Ebon hawk on it. Is it possible to put in there? If not than I need to think of some reason that you don't go there with the Ebon Hawk.
JuniorModder

If she is supposed to be Arkanian, why would she have white hair, and brown eyebrows? It would be understandable if it could be described as a sort of defect, but even then it doesn't seem to be that interesting.

I suppose you could say that the docking bays on Onderon are still under the process of being repaired since the Civil war, and can't yet handle even the Ebon Hawk docking, and thus ships such as the hawk must seek the use of a transport service on Duxn that was made for that purpose. Or in the process of getting clearance to land, you deal with a particularity uncaring dock manager that still has memories of the reason behind not only the Jedi civil war, and the Civil war on Onderon, and knows the reputation of the Hawk being in service of Jedi/Sith/Force Users, and this boasts something like "Oh, the Ebon Hawk, is it? Likely full of Jedi or the like. Nothing doing. You can take yourself straight to duxn and find your own way here, I could care less. And if you can't, well, I won't shed a tear for you." And I would imagine that you'd want a quicker way to Onderon than in TSL, so I'd think of a pilot that the Mandlorians allowed to stop for repairs, and with a bit of persuasion or possibly the trade of credits, they mention that Onderon is their next stop, and could take you.

JuniorModder
10-19-2009, 08:34 PM
If she is supposed to be Arkanian, why would she have white hair, and brown eyebrows? It would be understandable if it could be described as a sort of defect, but even then it doesn't seem to be that interesting.

I suppose you could say that the docking bays on Onderon are still under the process of being repaired since the Civil war, and can't yet handle even the Ebon Hawk docking, and thus ships such as the hawk must seek the use of a transport service on Duxn that was made for that purpose. Or in the process of getting clearance to land, you deal with a particularity uncaring dock manager that still has memories of the reason behind not only the Jedi civil war, and the Civil war on Onderon, and knows the reputation of the Hawk being in service of Jedi/Sith/Force Users, and this boasts something like "Oh, the Ebon Hawk, is it? Likely full of Jedi or the like. Nothing doing. You can take yourself straight to duxn and find your own way here, I could care less. And if you can't, well, I won't shed a tear for you." And I would imagine that you'd want a quicker way to Onderon than in TSL, so I'd think of a pilot that the Mandlorians allowed to stop for repairs, and with a bit of persuasion or possibly the trade of credits, they mention that Onderon is their next stop, and could take you.

I think her eyebrows are ok, but her white eyelashes a rather strange looking.

JuniorModder

VarsityPuppet
10-19-2009, 11:19 PM
If she's arkanian, I'm pretty sure she needs to have white eyebrows.

I understand that it can be pretty hard to pull off sometimes, (like making echani heads), but such details will make all the difference.

JuniorModder
10-20-2009, 11:13 AM
If she's arkanian, I'm pretty sure she needs to have white eyebrows.

I understand that it can be pretty hard to pull off sometimes, (like making echani heads), but such details will make all the difference.

She does have white eyebrows. I just don't think white eyelashes looks right.

JuniorModder
10-29-2009, 07:26 PM
Hey guys! Today I recorded some of Tenneth's and Helayna's dialog!

The great actress who plays Helayna is named Vicky Huggins.

Just a small update, but thought ya'll might like to know.

BTW: Tenneth's portrait is my current avatar.

JuniorModder

logan23
10-29-2009, 08:47 PM
That is awesome that you have 2 characters voiced!!

Keep up the work:thmbup1:

JuniorModder
10-29-2009, 09:06 PM
3 if you count B1-D1, but he is just At&T Text to speech.

And I had a cool idea. Since your mod is before mine, perhaps we could have cameos from each others mods. Like having Tenneth show up somewhere.

JuniorModder

RevanFan
11-03-2009, 03:20 AM
I really like this idea, and I'd gladly help out if I knew anything about modding. I can help out with the story if you want me to. Although, I'm not that creative. Sometimes, I'll have a creative "spark" though.

I'll help as much as I can and as much as you want me to. I really like this idea. You could play KotOR II and, when you finish it, install this mod and play it.

Also, a question. Are you going to model new worlds or just reuse old modules?

JuniorModder
11-03-2009, 10:46 AM
I really like this idea, and I'd gladly help out if I knew anything about modding. I can help out with the story if you want me to. Although, I'm not that creative. Sometimes, I'll have a creative "spark" though.

I'll help as much as I can and as much as you want me to. I really like this idea. You could play KotOR II and, when you finish it, install this mod and play it.

Also, a question. Are you going to model new worlds or just reuse old modules?

Hey RevanFan! I am hoping to remodel existing worlds. They will be the same, just a little bit different ;).

JuniorModder

RevanFan
11-03-2009, 04:57 PM
Hey RevanFan! I am hoping to remodel existing worlds. They will be the same, just a little bit different ;).

JuniorModder

Aw man. If you could model entirely new worlds for those not in the game, this would probably be the biggest mod of all time.

JuniorModder
11-03-2009, 05:02 PM
Aw man. If you could model entirely new worlds for those not in the game, this would probably be the biggest mod of all time.

Well, I'm just saying that that's all that I can do. If someone else agrees to do some modeling, then it might be different. ;)


JuniorModder

JuniorModder
11-10-2009, 07:01 PM
Yo everyone! I recorded lotsa dialog with Vicky Huggins (Helayna) today! If you are on the Vip update list, you will receive some snippets of her voice! And some brand new pictures of party members! If you want to be on the list, PM me your email (so I can send you the files).

JuniorModder