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Astor
10-20-2009, 03:10 PM
This Thursday (22nd October), BNP Leader, Nick Griffin MEP, will be a panellist on the political discussion program Question Time, alongside Justice Secretary and Lord Chancellor Jack Straw, Conservative Peer Baroness Warsi, and writer Bonnie Greer.

Unlike many, I don't dispute Mr. Griffin's right to go on the program (even if in past I described him as an 'odious little man', and even if he claims that the British Generals in Afghanistan and Iraq should be hanged for war crimes (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6389218/BNP-British-generals-should-be-hanged-for-war-crimes.html)), as all parties, no matter how extreme their views are, should have a chance to be heard. However, the fact that the BBC have had to draft in extra security to protect him from anti-fascist campaigners is rather interesting.

I am interested, though, to hear the thoughts of others (not just British people), and see what others expect from this Thursday's show. Will it, as suspected, simply show him up as the racist everyone knows him to be? Or will it validate him and his party by being on a mainstream political program?

Question Time Webpage (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/question_time/default.stm)

Darth InSidious
10-20-2009, 04:56 PM
He's a revoltingly unpleasant streak of piss; nevertheless, he should be in the forefront of the public eye.

It's very hard to debunk, mock and ridicule what no-one's heard of.

Totenkopf
10-20-2009, 05:35 PM
Well, I've got to agree w/Bailey, as well as DI. There's no reason he shouldn't face scrutiny on a prestigious program. Hain's fear that the BNP will gain some kind of respect just from being on the show doesn't seem axiomatic. Afterall, does he really fear that >1 million of his countryman are blind racists, esp. after he got finished dismissing their support of the BNP as merely a digust vote vs Labor and Tory Parties (presumably, as I'm assuming they're the 2 parties Hain is referring to)?

mur'phon
10-20-2009, 06:51 PM
Will his pary benefit from apearing? Probably, from what I have seen, fringe parties benefit from any "PR" they get, even being ripped to pieces on the program is likely to give the BNP a boost. That said, I think giving the fringe a chance to make their case is good for democracy, and would hope to see more of it.

jonathan7
10-20-2009, 06:55 PM
Will his pary benefit from apearing? Probably, from what I have seen, fringe parties benefit from any "PR" they get, even being ripped to pieces on the program is likely to give the BNP a boost. That said, I think giving the fringe a chance to make their case is good for democracy, and would hope to see more of it.

I disagree, partly because by the time Question time is on the average BNP voter will already be intoxicated with alcohol, and I doubt they have even heard of Question time, they will be too busy watching late night channel 5.

Regardless I think that man, should be allowed on Question time, as he is entitled to his Freedom of Speech, and I look forward to Jack Straw ripping him apart. Furthermore I really want a Welsh, Irish or Scottish member of the audience to ask that man to leave our country, as he is English, and as such is actually Scandinavian or French, so would he kindly pee off to where he is from...

mur'phon
10-20-2009, 07:18 PM
How many who see question time vote BNP? Just about no-one, so he is unlikely to loose anyone no matter how bad he screws up, a the same time he has a small chance of getting someone who never even considered voting BNP to do so (heads he wins, tails he doesen't loose).

Oh, and in case any would be Scotish, Welsh or Irish members of the audience reads this, don't grant J7 his wish as that riks puting the nutcase in my country of residence.

Pavlos
10-20-2009, 09:55 PM
Regardless I think that man, should be allowed on Question time, as he is entitled to his Freedom of Speech, and I look forward to Jack Straw ripping him apart. Furthermore I really want a Welsh, Irish or Scottish member of the audience to ask that man to leave our country, as he is English, and as such is actually Scandinavian or French, so would he kindly pee off to where he is from...
And you can trace yourself back to the Ancient Britons, can you, Jon? :xp:

My name's Anglo-Saxon, does that mean I have to go back to West Germany? >_>

Darth InSidious
10-21-2009, 05:28 AM
My name's Anglo-Saxon, does that mean I have to go back to West Germany? >_>
Yes.

Damned immigrants. :mad:

Pavlos
10-21-2009, 08:14 AM
Yes.

Damned immigrants. :mad:
Bastard Normans. :mad:

Q
10-21-2009, 12:35 PM
Who are the real Britons, anyway? The Welsh? :p

*runs*

Delta 62
10-21-2009, 12:41 PM
and I look forward to Jack Straw ripping him apart. Furthermore I really want a Welsh, Irish or Scottish member of the audience to ask that man to leave our country, as he is English, and as such is actually Scandinavian or French, so would he kindly pee off to where he is from...

PEE OFF NICK GRIFFINS!!!!! And i second the tearing him o shreds bit, it shal be interesting (shame i wont be there to tell him that :(:()
p.s. evil Q i dont know the REAL britons but the will most likely come from mainland europe seeing as England used to be part of it

Darth InSidious
10-21-2009, 01:00 PM
p.s. evil Q i dont know the REAL britons but the will most likely come from mainland europe seeing as England used to be part of it

Lies put about by the secularists. Don't you know that Britain arose out of the sea by divine proclamation?!

Pavlos
10-21-2009, 01:41 PM
Our language is Germanic, our vocabulary French, and the notion of a British race as indefinable as that of existence.

Edit: Our aristocracy is French, our monarch German, our national dish curry... with fish and chips.

SW01
10-21-2009, 02:41 PM
Hopefully, he'll come out with a few more wonders of policy-making along the lines of sinking ships to deal with immigration for us to mercilessly make fun of critically analyse.

Totenkopf
10-21-2009, 05:37 PM
Hopefully, he'll come out with a few more wonders of policy-making along the lines of sinking ships to deal with immigration for us to mercilessly make fun of critically analyse.


Yeah, and don't forget about the flooding the Chunnel idea.... :devsmoke:

Astor
10-22-2009, 04:56 PM
The show has been recorded amid violent protests outside of BBC Television centre - six people have been arrested, and three police officers have been injured.

It think it would have been far better if nobody had shown up to protest - the BNP's ego is inflated everytime there are protests, egg throwings and other volatile reactions to them. I think it's regrettable that these protestors felt the need to resort to violence, and that people have been hurt.

BBC Story. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8321157.stm)

Griffin says he was able to 'throw some punches' during the show. We'll find out at 10.35 tonight. It is a shame, however, that they won't show footage of him being booed into the studio. :)

EDIT: Sky News has and will be airing clips from tonight's show - they make for pretty entertaining viewing.

SW01
10-22-2009, 07:56 PM
Was able to 'throw some punches'...it seemed to me that Griffin was more the heavy bag for the blows of the entire panel and David Dimbleby himself! His 'rebuttal' of the various quotations he had put against him was altogether laughable. He was 'misquoted', he said - and apparently too many times to enumerate - but wouldn't refute any of the quotations read by David Dimbleby with any conviction.

Asked about Holocaust denial, his first response was 'I've never been convicted of Holocaust denial' with a smile on his face, later saying 'I changed my mind, but I can't say why'. I found it hilarious that the party representatives united to rip to pieces his assertion that he wasn't allowed to say why he changed his mind by EU law.

Also extremely amusing was his attempt to have it appear that Straw was promoting, rather than mocking, an idea of 'indigenous Britons' as being exclusively white. 'Skin colour doesn't enter into it' for Griffin, apparently...drew peals of laughter though - both in that studio and in my living room!

It was indeed a thoroughly entertaining show - I'm sure we'll be seeing the highlights for a while yet!

Web Rider
10-22-2009, 08:11 PM
The show has been recorded amid violent protests outside of BBC Television centre - six people have been arrested, and three police officers have been injured.

It think it would have been far better if nobody had shown up to protest - the BNP's ego is inflated everytime there are protests, egg throwings and other volatile reactions to them. I think it's regrettable that these protestors felt the need to resort to violence, and that people have been hurt.

BBC Story. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8321157.stm)

Griffin says he was able to 'throw some punches' during the show. We'll find out at 10.35 tonight. It is a shame, however, that they won't show footage of him being booed into the studio. :)

EDIT: Sky News has and will be airing clips from tonight's show - they make for pretty entertaining viewing.

I find it ironic that the BNP is portrayed as this nasty, evil, subversive party, and yet, it seems the people who protest them resort to all the same tactics. Pot, kettle?

Pavlos
10-22-2009, 08:40 PM
I find it ironic that the BNP is portrayed as this nasty, evil, subversive party, and yet, it seems the people who protest them resort to all the same tactics. Pot, kettle?
On the treatment of the BNP, one of their supporters said a while ago (I forget who) that "now we're living in a fascist state!" And I thought to myself that he could at least try to look happy about it...

Det. Bart Lasiter
10-22-2009, 10:02 PM
he himself doesn't want to live in a fascist state, he just wants his state to be fascist when it comes to the browns and gays

Web Rider
10-22-2009, 10:19 PM
On the treatment of the BNP, one of their supporters said a while ago (I forget who) that "now we're living in a fascist state!" And I thought to myself that he could at least try to look happy about it...

Fact is though, even if that's the kind of State he wants, the people of his country should not necessitate their government to become one. The more violence, the more the use of police, the fewer rights, the more it becomes a fascist state. If the people just ignored the BNP and/or protested peacefully, they'd go away. The more attention the BNP gets, the more power it will get.

jonathan7
10-22-2009, 10:56 PM
Fact is though, even if that's the kind of State he wants, the people of his country should not necessitate their government to become one. The more violence, the more the use of police, the fewer rights, the more it becomes a fascist state. If the people just ignored the BNP and/or protested peacefully, they'd go away. The more attention the BNP gets, the more power it will get.

We've been here before with Mosley, and he crawled back down the poo hole he climbed out from. Hitler himself remarked; “Fascism does not lie in the English character . . . Mosley could not seduce a whole nation.” Though the country has obviously changed greatly, I think fundamentally Griffin has none of Mosley's charisma and as such I cannot see his party really doing anything more than Mosley's mediocre party.

The BNP won't grow in power it has either peaked with it's MEP's or will peak at the next election when it gets a few seats in the house; people will however see the party for what it is. Personally I think the more exposure the party gets the less likely anyone with a degree of cognitive ability is likely to vote for them. There will always be a racist core unfortunately, however fortunately they are very much in the minority. The exposure on Question time wasn't good for the BNP, Griffin, frankly came out looking like a deluded idiot.

I find it ironic that the BNP is portrayed as this nasty, evil, subversive party, and yet, it seems the people who protest them resort to all the same tactics. Pot, kettle?

The protesters are quite frankly pathetic, why on earth anyone would give their time up to protest against someone as ignorant as Nick Griffin I will never know; it's even more stupid they got violent about it.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00632/Cartoon_632929a.jpg

Astor
10-23-2009, 12:43 PM
'Skin colour doesn't enter into it' for Griffin, apparently...drew peals of laughter though - both in that studio and in my living room!

And that was just one of many hilarious moments in last night's show - his defence of the Klan, and his argument against homosexuality being that it was 'creepy' were particularly funny.

We've been here before with Mosley, and he crawled back down the poo hole he climbed out from. Hitler himself remarked; “Fascism does not lie in the English character . . . Mosley could not seduce a whole nation.” Though the country has obviously changed greatly, I think fundamentally Griffin has none of Mosley's charisma and as such I cannot see his party really doing anything more than Mosley's mediocre party.

The people of Cable Street (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cable_Street) showed the BUF (and the police overseeing the march) exactly what they thought of Mosley and his blackshirts - I doubt that we'd see anything as violent as that, but the protests last night probably came pretty close.

The protesters are quite frankly pathetic, why on earth anyone would give their time up to protest against someone as ignorant as Nick Griffin I will never know; it's even more stupid they got violent about it.


Unfortunately, most protests seem to end in violence these days - but I think it's unfair to blame the majority of the protesters, but I agree that the violence was pointless, and will only add more fuel to the BNP's fire. In fact, they've already lodged a complaint with the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8322322.stm) that the show, it's audience and the questions were biased, and are now claiming that they have seen a massive boost in membership resulting from yesterday's events.

Totenkopf
10-23-2009, 05:32 PM
Was able to 'throw some punches'...it seemed to me that Griffin was more the heavy bag for the blows of the entire panel and David Dimbleby himself! His 'rebuttal' of the various quotations he had put against him was altogether laughable. He was 'misquoted', he said - and apparently too many times to enumerate - but wouldn't refute any of the quotations read by David Dimbleby with any conviction.

Asked about Holocaust denial, his first response was 'I've never been convicted of Holocaust denial' with a smile on his face,

Only saw what looked like the first 11 minutes or so, but I did notice that convicted "slip up". That and his apparent inability or unwillingness to cite even 1 or 2 misquotations (till he said something about being accused of equating blacks w/monkeys). If the rest of the session went like that (and appears to have from several comments here), he acquitted himself quite poorly. Still, better for all to see whether or to what degree he's a buffoon than not at all or only second hand.

SW01
10-24-2009, 06:16 AM
In fact, they've already lodged a complaint with the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8322322.stm) that the show, it's audience and the questions were biased,

Of course - I'm sure the few people applauding Griffin and defending him every now and then were only doing it for the craic. :xp:

I suppose it's quite difficult to find a panel that is not biased against him considering that the majority seem to consider Griffin a silly slimy deceptive toad. They are just throwing their toys out of the pram because their fear-stirring, xenophobic nonsense did not captivate this particular audience. Griffin was, I believe, offered plenty of opportunities to answer questions put to him, but resorted to cheap tactics ('I'm not a Nazi because my father was an RAF pilot in the Second World War, whereas Jack Straw's father...') and feeble attempts to appear moderate and reformed in spite of very recent, very damning statements.

It has been shown that the BNP's leader does not stand up to the scrutiny of three major party politicians - one wonders what chance they truly believe they have before Europe or Parliament.

If they can't take the pressure of questions from a political discussion show presenter, and from the people, they should not be attempting to work in politics. None of the arguments I heard from the other panelists were based on lies, mis-statements or very pitiful rhetoric (well, no more than usual from politicians...).

claiming that they have seen a massive boost in membership resulting from yesterday's events.

I only hope Bonnie Greer's assertion at the end of the programme that 'the British people have too much common sense' to be won over by that display ring true. But, given the volume of lies and contradictions exposed on Thursday night, I take anything they say with a heavy dose of suspicion.

Still, better for all to see whether or to what degree he's a buffoon than not at all or only second hand.

Absolutely right. Some here said when he was elected to Europe that the exposure of their policies to true, public scrutiny would reveal the BNP for what they are - I think Thursday proved it. Any fears about what sort of performance he would pull out to try to win people over were rather quickly dispelled, at least I thought so.

But then again I'm biased and therefore should not be allowed to express my opinion on the subject...:xp:

Pavlos
10-24-2009, 06:36 AM
Clicky (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8323638.stm)

Peter Hain says his fears have been proved right after a poll suggested support for the BNP has risen after Nick Griffin appeared on Question Time.

A YouGov poll in the Daily Telegraph suggests 22% of people questioned would "seriously consider" voting BNP.

The Welsh secretary said: "The BBC has handed the BNP the gift of the century on a plate and now we see the consequences. I'm very angry."

The show was watched by a record eight million people on Thursday.

The opinion poll carried out after Mr Griffin's appearance found 22% of voters would consider voting BNP in a future local, general or European election.

Two-thirds of the 1,314 people polled by YouGov for the Daily Telegraph dismissed voting for the party under any circumstances, with the rest unsure.

When asked how they would vote in an election tomorrow, the proportion supporting the BNP stood at 3%, up from 2% a month ago.

However, more than half of those polled said they agreed or thought the party had a point in speaking up for the interests of indigenous, white British people.

The poll did not ask whether their views were affected as a result of Mr Griffin's appearance on Question Time.

Will somebody please explain what an indigenous Briton is? I know my History's not exactly as sharp as the poker up Edward II's rear end but... I don't quite understand how a nation constituted of immigrants (Celts, Romans, Anglo-Saxons, Jutes, Vikings, and Normans) can possibly have an indigenous race.

Go back home, Saxons, I say. Coming over here, giving us our language and cultural foundation. Tut.

Edit: More seriously, Question Time may have been a good wheeze for the obviously West London audience (i.e. constituted of middle class, university educated, home-owning liberals) but I imagine a good deal of working class people in post-industrial towns who have been hit hard by the recession saw a figure to empathise with: marginalised and under attack by middle class snobs who have been so concerned with the fight over "middle England" that they've managed to forget about the working classes and leave them with no choice or voice other than that of a fascistic, bigoted, crackpot Nazi party.

adamqd
10-24-2009, 06:56 AM
Well, I'm 45th Generation Roman, and Italy's Climate sure beats the Midlands lol, Bye... I mean arrivederci!

Totenkopf
10-24-2009, 11:15 AM
Edit: More seriously, Question Time may have been a good wheeze for the obviously West London audience (i.e. constituted of middle class, university educated, home-owning liberals) but I imagine a good deal of working class people in post-industrial towns who have been hit hard by the recession saw a figure to empathise with: marginalised and under attack by middle class snobs who have been so concerned with the fight over "middle England" that they've managed to forget about the working classes and leave them with no choice or voice other than that of a fascistic, bigoted, crackpot Nazi party.

That might have made for an interesting twist in audience reaction.

jonathan7
10-24-2009, 11:33 AM
Edit: More seriously, Question Time may have been a good wheeze for the obviously West London audience (i.e. constituted of middle class, university educated, home-owning liberals) but I imagine a good deal of working class people in post-industrial towns who have been hit hard by the recession saw a figure to empathise with: marginalised and under attack by middle class snobs who have been so concerned with the fight over "middle England" that they've managed to forget about the working classes and leave them with no choice or voice other than that of a fascistic, bigoted, crackpot Nazi party.

Perhaps, though Griffin's claims were absurd (as they always are) about the show being biased, as he agreed to go on the show knowing full well it would be a London based audience, which would clearly be cosmopolitan in nature. Though individuals may have the above view Pavlos, I disagree that it is true, or that is a reason to vote for the BNP; that said the working class' traditional party of labour has utterly been taken over by Conservative toff's.

Right, I am however going to post something I think controversial; but true. I play football with local Sikh's team (I am the only "gora" (white person)) who plays with them. One of the guys I play with his a travelling salesman, and he said he had noticed something very interesting about being in the North. If the white populace thought he was Muslim he got a very negative reaction; however as soon as they realised he was Indian and Sikh, they were immediately fine with him.

Generally it is my experience and observation that, the Indians (who are Sikh and Hindu), and generally most ethnic minorities eventually integrate with Britain. They will tend to hang out more with "their" community, but they are also fine with the surrounding community; I am fully accepted into the Indian population here, I get invites to Sikh weddings, and invites to the openings of their new businesses.

There is however one massive glaring exception that Muslims (with the exception of the Turkish) do not integrate into society; they segregate themselves off. Why? What generally killed racism in this country was communities living together, it is much harder to racially abuse people you end up being friends with, and once "they" have a face, opposed to it just being "them" racism stops.

Jae Onasi
10-25-2009, 02:48 PM
I don't think the program will do a whole lot other than make his message more public--those who want to agree with him, will. Those who find him incredibly offensive will continue to do so.