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News
12-11-2009, 01:30 PM
There has been much discussion on our forums as well as the official forums after Daniel Erickson, lead writer on SW:TOR, discussed Revan’s fate with GameInformer at a press event last month. Erickson has since made a post to clear up some misconceptions of what he said: Quote from DanielErickson (Source) Wow. Great thread. It’s fantastic [...]

Read the full story at starwarsmmo.net... (http://www.starwarsmmo.net/news/daniel-erickson-clears-up-darth-revan-backstory/)

Darth Avlectus
12-11-2009, 02:13 PM
Awesome! It was US our own forums that were being referred to among many.


Daniel Erickson Clears Up Darth Revan Backstory

By Jeff on December 11th, 2009

There has been much discussion on our forums as well as the official forums after Daniel Erickson, lead writer on SW:TOR, discussed Revanís fate with GameInformer at a press event last month. Erickson has since made a post to clear up some misconceptions of what he said:
Wow. Great thread. Itís fantastic to see all the excitement around the KOTOR lore. There is much that we obviously arenít revealing but I did want to clear up any misconceptions about what I was talking about in the interview.

* Revan and Malak went into deep space and met the Sith Emperor. They were turned and sent back to prepare the way for the return of the true Sith.
* Being Sith and away from the Emperorís direct influence neither Revan nor Malak followed orders exactly as they were supposed to. Then, of course, Malak betrayed Revan.
* The Jedi took in Revan and returned him to the light, though as it was not a natural turn for him when he went dark, there was much they couldnít undo and they decided to remove his memories and hopefully his taint with it. Yes, Revanís return to the light (and his gender as male) are canon.
* Later Revan returned to deep space to confront what he knew was out there but how much he actually remembered and how clearly he remembered it is still a mystery, as are the events that followed. What we do know is that it took hundreds of years for the Sith to re-emerge as originally planned.

The rest is all speculation and have fun with that. For those of you convinced that somehow weíre going to destroy KOTOR, I ask you to remember that the creative team (including the lead writer and lead designer) that was in charge of KOTORís story is on this staff, working on this game. Trust us that our investment in this lore is at least as strong as yours.


Ehhh, well ok. So they *are* keeping the part of Revan going into the outer regions to confront the Sith. I suppose if they let it blow over with TSL, like it was a covert mission and few if anyone knew about the true details, that might be acceptable to me.

True_Avery
12-11-2009, 02:16 PM
Looks like they have officially abandoned pretty much the entire TSL storyline, upto and including Revan and Malak at Malachor.

1) So, Revan and Malak never turned to the Darkside. They had their minds taken over and were force to go back and fight the republic through the influence of the Sith Emperor.

2) Apparently the Dark Side leaves a taint. I did not know this. So, because it was not a willful taint it could be removed... by removing memories.'

3) After Revan was mind controlled, he decided to go back and find the person who mind controlled him. Fantastic. Revan essentially now amounts to Darth Vader but now far more pathetic.

4) Their attack was meant to make way for he True Sith... 300 years later.

5) Oh look, canonically male. Yay, we get to have the poorer half of the story as canon and yet another male lead. **** you Bioware.

This... is ****ing stupid. Now only has it completely written TSL out of canon, but it has also rewritten quite a bit of actual Kotor. I really don't give a damn if the lead writer is on board because that doesn't change the fact that this is the stupidest thing I've read in quite awhile.

I mean, what the hell. The entire TSL plot except for the True Sith is now gone, as well as any conceived notions that Revan had an agenda of his own. Nothing that Revan and Malak did were of their own free will, and in the end amounted to nothing. Revan was not a great sith, nor a great leader, nor even a great jedi. Just someone who got mind controlled so that ****ing bioware could give all of the credit of Revan's accomplishments to a more powerful Sith Emperor whom we have not heard about till this game.

I sort of like Revan as a mary sue, and am fine with Revan being taken down to a realistic and believable level but this is a complete undermining of the character. This is the entire opposite of a Mary Sue so much so that the emperor now appears to be the bigger mary sue while Revan is basically a pathetic washup alongside Malak. Anything threatening or anything that appeared developed about their characters is now just dust in the goddamn wind thanks to a handful of writers who are claiming superiority because "they were there first".

I was on the ropes before, but I now hate the plot of this ****ing game. The gameplay, planets, and classes look fun but they are just doing exactly what Blizzard did to the Warcraft story.

**** the Bioware Austin writers, and **** this game. I may still play it if my friends on the forum do just for social sake, but I'm going to do the same thing I did to World of Warcraft: Pretend it's plot doesn't exist.

What a ****ing disappointment.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2138837#post2138837

darthfergie
12-11-2009, 02:17 PM
So basically they are saying that Revan went solo to face down the "Sith Emperor", he basically single-handedly prevented the sith invasion for 200+ years?

I wonder if they'll go into that via the holonet reports eventually.

That would be slightly enjoyable end to Revan anyways.

As for the other murky bits, I'm not too thrilled about the way the storyline shapes up as bits and pieces from KOTOR don't add up. But whatever.

Revan causing enough chaos to stop the Sith for hundreds of years sounds interesting anyways. /shrug

Rake
12-11-2009, 02:34 PM
I still believe that the sith invading 300 years later can be made believable with a good piece of lore behind it, we'll see when the game comes out though. As to Revan being mind controlled avery, where did you get that from Erickson's post? I didn't see it that way when I read it.

True_Avery
12-11-2009, 02:40 PM
I take it from the fact he states they are able to break his rules more the farther away they are from him, that it was apparently not a "natural" turn (meaning it was not of his own devices), and the fact that it says... oh yeah, that the Emperor turned them with I'm going to pretty much assume a terrible reason behind.

It means two things. It means he was "influencing" them through his own power, or he threw Mace Windu out a window and they looked at each other and said "oh, ok, I guess we'll go against all our morals and be on your side now".

Rake
12-11-2009, 02:43 PM
Hmm I must of skipped over the part where he says the farther from the Emperor's direct influence the more they strayed. After rereading it, it does make Revan and Malak look like two bumbling idiotic puppets, but I'm hoping this lead writer is just bad at putting his thoughts into words -_-.

True_Avery
12-11-2009, 03:00 PM
Also, if Revan and Malak were just pawns and KNEW that they were pawns in a larger game, why in the bloody hell would Malak overthrow Revan. For what purpose? "Lord of the Sith"? It makes no sense if the true lord of the Sith was the Emperor. It makes Malak's betrayal make even less sense now because even if he betrayed Revan, he's still under the influence of the Emperor.

Which doesn't make sense because that would sort of imply the Emperor might have influenced them into betraying each other as some sort of elaborate plan. It means Malak, if he did manage to break through the influence of the emperor a little, was essentially vying for the #2 slot when it was personally taken over and turned by the #1.

Not only that, but why would Revan and Malak invade if there was a larger Sith army in the Outer Rim? Why not just make ships from the Star Forge and send them into deep space and consolidate forces then just super destroy the Republic? Why pre-emptive strike the Republic 300 years before invading?

And finally, the last hole I'm noticing. If the Sith Emperor turned Revan and Malak 300 years ago, how in the hell is the Sith Emperor still around 300 years later. Is it a new Emperor with the same ultimate goals? Is it the same but with an extended lifespan?

I'm sure they will try to explain this stuff in the game, but as of now it just makes this Kotor confusing. I thought TSL confused the story a little, but this is ridiculous.

Its good to know Malak and Revan were just two puppets and, like Anakin, abandoned all they knew for seemingly no reason in order to blindly follow someone they barely knew...

Uh... why would those two invade the first time? Why wouldn't the emperor keep a better watch on his puppets to make sure they didn't in-fight? Why not just consolidate forces? Why reveal their presence at all? Why would Revan just leave the Republic to its own devices if he started to remember that there was... uh, an entire sith civilization waiting for them just outside known space?

Lets not even mention that this is the exact tired story that the Vhong storyline was using...

jrrtoken
12-11-2009, 04:59 PM
Newsfeed: Daniel Erickson Obfuscates Darth Revan BackstoryFix'd.

darthfergie
12-11-2009, 06:22 PM
Not only that, but why would Revan and Malak invade if there was a larger Sith army in the Outer Rim? Why not just make ships from the Star Forge and send them into deep space and consolidate forces then just super destroy the Republic? Why pre-emptive strike the Republic 300 years before invading?

I'm thinking that the Sith Invasion was supposed to happen much earlier and Revan and Malak were supposed to weaken things up. Instead the Sith's weapon ended up getting turned back upon themselves with Revan going back out to the Sith and sabotaging them to the point where they had to set back their plans of invading by hundreds of years.

Only thing I can think he may have done was:
1) Killed the current emperor that sent the Sith into a big power struggle/war for hundreds of years.
2) Pissed off the Chiss/OuterRimPower#27 and had them go into hundred of year of war with Sith to preoccupy them.
3) Spark a class rebellion among the Proletariat to fight the hand of injustice the Bourgeois Sith have been holding down upon their necks

deathdisco
12-11-2009, 06:22 PM
{snip}
5) Oh look, canonically male. Yay, we get to have the poorer half of the story as canon and yet another male lead. **** you Bioware.
{snip}

Um, we all ready knew this. Canonically Revan = male, The Exile = female. :eyeraise:
Poorer indeed:p.
The rest I'll take a wait and see approach.

True_Avery
12-11-2009, 07:17 PM
I'm thinking that the Sith Invasion was supposed to happen much earlier and Revan and Malak were supposed to weaken things up. Instead the Sith's weapon ended up getting turned back upon themselves with Revan going back out to the Sith and sabotaging them to the point where they had to set back their plans of invading by hundreds of years.
I'd buy that. Still though, it seems odd to weaken the republic more considering the Republic was already on the brink of collapse due to the Mando war. Seems that since they managed to just demolish the republic in the Old Republic that it wouldn't of been that difficult back then, especially with a fully functioning Star Forge.

Republic was already weak, the emperor technically had control of the Forge as well as over a half of the former republic fleet, and not to mention their civilization. It just seem like a poor idea to throw Revan and Malak out first when a Zerg rush apparently would have done a hell of a lot better.

TSL's explanation, while making Revan look really good, made sense for the pace of the war and so on. This just... seems like poor planning on the part of the emperor. Perhaps it will be explained better in the inner world of the game, but from the perspective of Kotor is just seems to undermine the idea that Revan and Malak were supposed to be tactical geniuses.

Only thing I can think he may have done was:
1) Killed the current emperor that sent the Sith into a big power struggle/war for hundreds of years.
2) Pissed off the Chiss/OuterRimPower#27 and had them go into hundred of year of war with Sith to preoccupy them.
3) Spark a class rebellion among the Proletariat to fight the hand of injustice the Bourgeois Sith have been holding down upon their necks
Yeah, as for what Revan did when he returned is pretty much anyone's guess. It is so far the one thing the writers are really hush hush about. Still, considering Revan went out there the first time and was seemingly turned and set up a Sith army in a matter of 2 or so years, I don't have a lot of faith in what Revan did back there. Right about now Revan is about as low as Anakin in my mind as far as the perspective of SWTOR is concerned.

Um, we all ready knew this. Canonically Revan = male, The Exile = female. :eyeraise:
True, but at the time it was "canonical" because they needed a gender for the wiki and history books. There was not so much an official canon gender as there was a media gender. In the Kotor comics I do not believe a Gender has been assigned, and Revan is always under a cloak. Oh, and Exile isn't canonically anything because she's been retcon'ed out.

This is just the nail in the coffin for Bioware to blatantly come out and say what is and isn't. I didn't expect anything else, but I'm still sore that Revan needed a canon gender considering its quite easy to refer to Revan without implying gender.

Poorer indeed:p.
Twilight Anakin/Padme Bastila romance. Need I say more?

Rake
12-11-2009, 08:43 PM
I have a theory on how the star forge and the betrayal of Revan by Malak fits in. I believe, going by Bioware's new lore, somehow Revan and Malak fell to the dark side due to the mingling of the Sith Emperor somehow (as previously stated). However, like KOTOR II stated, Revan willingly turned out of necessity, making the emperor believe him to be a puppet.

Now, after taking their leave, Revan and Malak began their search for the star forge, something the emperor didn't know about. In the middle of the civil war, Malak betrayed Revan either A) After the sith emperor found out about Revan's true motives and "influenced" Malak, or B) Malak decided he'd be greeted as a hero by the true Sith if he took the reigns and crushed the Republic himself.

Kinda funky, but just taking a guess.

TKA-001
12-11-2009, 09:28 PM
3) After Revan was mind controlled, he decided to go back and find the person who mind controlled him. Fantastic. Revan essentially now amounts to Darth Vader but now far more pathetic.
Maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't see the connection you seem to refer to here.

It means he was "influencing" them through his own power, or he threw Mace Windu out a window and they looked at each other and said "oh, ok, I guess we'll go against all our morals and be on your side now".
Kreia in TSL explains that Revan and Malak were already exposed to the dark side during the Mandalorian Wars, so their turn was not entirely due to the Sith in the Unknown Regions.

Oh, and Exile isn't canonically anything because she's been retcon'ed out.
Did I miss something? :confused:

How do any of these new developments affect the existence of the Exile (or anything that happened in TSL)?

Tommycat
12-11-2009, 09:59 PM
@TA:
A forced turn does not necessarily mean mind control. Kinda like how beating a dog will make it meaner(or so pathetic and skittish it's sad... actually having done pit bull rescues, both are pretty sad). It's not so unheard of to twist a person into becoming evil. Changing many of his memories as the Jedi did COULD have been done by the Sith Emperor. Which is Ajunta Pall a Sith that you will remember from KotOR as the Tomb with no body in it.

Actually it seems they are including SOME of TSL. Which is actually more than I was expecting. And seeing as how they are using canon as the definitions, it seems logical that they would use the canon Exile.

And by the way, I tend to agree with you that I think Revan SHOULD have been canonized as female, and Exile male. But sadly they went the other way.

Nedak
12-11-2009, 10:46 PM
I'm happy Revan is a male.

Makes the Bastila thing make sense ;)

Tobias Reiper
12-11-2009, 11:47 PM
And here I thought they'd tell me something I didn't already figure out.

TKA-001
12-12-2009, 10:51 AM
I really don't see why people are making this such a big flaming deal. These facts are things that a lot of people already believed anyway.

True_Avery
12-12-2009, 01:13 PM
Maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't see the connection you seem to refer to here.
It seems to essentially make Revan a sort of Anakin clone now with some Luke thrown in. I mean, Revan goes out and by whatever means they get completely turned by the Emperor and come back. I admit I don't know the backstory, but I can only assume from the wording and so on that it was probably a forced turn overall.

So, an Emperor that turned Revan and Malak and the rest of the fleet exists, and at the end of Kotor Revan starts to remember and then runs off alone. To the person that easily brought him to his knees before. Seemingly quite easily. Without backup of any kind.

This isn't so much a problem with SWTOR as much as TSL's explanation for Revan leaving. It just adds another layer to how little sense it made. That, and the whole throwing Mace Windu out a windu and then Anakin just deciding "Hey, I think I'll be a genocidal maniac now" seems awfully familiar here.

It just looks like another example of awful story telling to justify why someone goes down the Dark Side.

Kreia in TSL explains that Revan and Malak were already exposed to the dark side during the Mandalorian Wars, so their turn was not entirely due to the Sith in the Unknown Regions.
Problem is, we now do not know if Malachor ever happened, or if Kreia ever existed, nor even Exile. This new news retcons nearly everything Kreia said about Revan, so we can only assume that yes she was indeed lying to Exile the entire game. Revan didn't return to fight some threat from beyond, or save the republic, or do some other "good" intended thing for the Galaxy. He just came back as an Anakin clone to wreck the Republic to make way for his new master.

We don't know if they were ever exposed because we now have to rely on Kreia's word's alone, which now hold little weight. Maybe they did, but Anakin was exposed to the Dark Side before he fully turned and that didn't make his turning any less stupid.

Did I miss something? :confused:

How do any of these new developments affect the existence of the Exile (or anything that happened in TSL)?
The mentions of TSL so far are limited only to about Revan and Malak right now. There has been no mention of the 3 Sith Lords and Exile that appeared 5 years later, and nothing that implies that the harming of the Jedi Order was done by anyone other than Malak. Seeing as Kreia's speeches about her knowledge of the War played out are essentially being retcon'd one by one, I have little hope that she and exile still exist in canon after this game.

I'll wait for the game to see if they get mentioned in dialogue, but I am not hopeful.

@TA:
A forced turn does not necessarily mean mind control. Kinda like how beating a dog will make it meaner(or so pathetic and skittish it's sad... actually having done pit bull rescues, both are pretty sad). It's not so unheard of to twist a person into becoming evil. Changing many of his memories as the Jedi did COULD have been done by the Sith Emperor. Which is Ajunta Pall a Sith that you will remember from KotOR as the Tomb with no body in it.
It doesn't necessarily mean Mind Control, but that is what I'm getting from the wording of these Revan interviews. If not mind control, then yeah something like a beaten dog. Either way, it has painted Revan is just about the complete opposite light that TSL did. It still seems to undermine the redemption theme of the first game and instead simply makes the Jedi look better in comparison.

logan23
12-12-2009, 02:03 PM
The problem i see is that Bioware is telling us about Revan and some hints on his back-story and we are using this to decided how Bioware is dealing with TSL.

To find out what happen to the Exile and TSL's plot points and characters we must start spreading the word for people to ask what happen to the Exile rather then asking about Revan and assuming they will tell us about the Exile. We have to ask the proper question to get the answers we are look for.

I say lets start asking/bugging Bioware about the Jedi Exile and her companions. I am confident that they have some written material on them and how they fit into the story even if thye use them as a grounding and foundation for the new Jedi Order.

I do not expect Bioware to make the Jedi Exile a major character in TOR's story or have great detail on her since its not their creation. Game writers like to try not to dictate another person's creation in a very defined way since it might cause issues.

An example of this that in kotor2 Darth Nihilus's mask was originally going to be made from the skull of Revan. This was removed since they felt it would upset players and also it would be impolite to just kill off the major PC characters in the original kotor game.

Now that we have a small taste into Revan's backstory. I say lets start asking about the Jedi Exile and TSL's plot connections. If we do this Bioware will leak out something to calm the community that they have not forgotten TSL.

As for the Revan being turned by the Sith Emperor...I believe it was not mind control of any type. The Sith Emperor saw what happen when they charged in to face the Republic head on in the Hyperspace Wars. The Emperor wanted to test the Republic and the Jedi's reactions with the Mando war. When he saw this gifted Jedi/Revan turn the tide the Emperor knew there was a way to take Revan's passion and wanting to protect the galaxy and use his compassion against him. Remember Revan and his forces were out in the unknown region for 2 years before returning as the Sith Lord. The Sith Emperor had time to take Revan's views which have already been affected by war and give him a new threat and teach him that the Sith culture could save his Republic.

As for respect to Revan I'm sure he may have turned to the darkside but does not mean he was going to follow orders as the Emperor planned. He embraced the Sith teachings but remember the Sith teachings is a point of view on the use of the Force. Remember before they were called the Sith they were called Dark Jedi which is a sect of Jedi who had conflicting views with the rest of the Jedi Order.

As for why not take the fight right there to the Sith Empire....maybe the Sith Empire had political issues maybe they were to few in numbers for such a war. The Emperor could of played down the Sith as a dying people hunted down by the Jedi in the past. There are many possible things that could of been said to blur and influence.

Maybe when Revan started to remember.... he remember the lies that were told since he was able to see his past with a better perspective since he was not burden with a War and feeling of an unknown threat.

To face the Sith Emperor alone....why ....I will not say since it relates to my Mod.

Logan

TKA-001
12-12-2009, 03:04 PM
It seems to essentially make Revan a sort of Anakin clone now with some Luke thrown in. I mean, Revan goes out and by whatever means they get completely turned by the Emperor and come back. I admit I don't know the backstory, but I can only assume from the wording and so on that it was probably a forced turn overall.

So, an Emperor that turned Revan and Malak and the rest of the fleet exists, and at the end of Kotor Revan starts to remember and then runs off alone. To the person that easily brought him to his knees before. Seemingly quite easily. Without backup of any kind.

This isn't so much a problem with SWTOR as much as TSL's explanation for Revan leaving. It just adds another layer to how little sense it made. That, and the whole throwing Mace Windu out a windu and then Anakin just deciding "Hey, I think I'll be a genocidal maniac now" seems awfully familiar here.

It just looks like another example of awful story telling to justify why someone goes down the Dark Side.
I still don't see what Anakin has to do with Revan, or how the two cases correlate.

The mentions of TSL so far are limited only to about Revan and Malak right now. There has been no mention of the 3 Sith Lords and Exile that appeared 5 years later, and nothing that implies that the harming of the Jedi Order was done by anyone other than Malak. Seeing as Kreia's speeches about her knowledge of the War played out are essentially being retcon'd one by one, I have little hope that she and exile still exist in canon after this game.

I'll wait for the game to see if they get mentioned in dialogue, but I am not hopeful.
It looks to me that you are confusing absence of mention with mention of absence.

Zerimar Nyliram
12-12-2009, 09:46 PM
5) Oh look, canonically male. Yay, we get to have the poorer half of the story as canon and yet another male lead. **** you Bioware.

Yeah, nothing new here. His gender and alignment have been canonized for years now.

Also, I really don't see why so many people say that the female Revan path is the stronger one, story-wise. Aside from the romance subplots, I really don't see any difference in personality or character. They both seem equally empty and blank-slated (this is why I've always thought that Revan was highly overrated). As for the romance subplots, I have played as both genders and have found Carth to be a rather disappointing character, and the romance subplot with him to be quite wanting. Bastila, on the other hand, is an fascinating character, especially given her bond with Revan and her turn to the dark side (as well as her redemption, if you are playing as a light-sider; but even on the dark side, her dedication to Revan is all the more intriguing, being deepened by their romantic relationship).

That said, male Revan has always been the undisputed champion in my mind, and I can't understand how anyone can think differently. Well, to each his own, I suppose. (Remember, you can still play the game as a woman, if you wish.) The Exile being a woman, on the other hand, that was a poor choice. And this can't be attributed to me being biased on account of my own gender, either, as I believe that Jaden Korr from Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy is an incomparibly stronger character as a woman, and I hate how he's been canonized as a man (and even has a book coming out where he is the star).

True_Avery
12-13-2009, 01:32 AM
It looks to me that you are confusing absence of mention with mention of absence.
Fair enough. When they feel like mentioning something explicitly from TSL I'll revoke my statement. As it stands all the only mention that has been made are vague plot points ripped from TSL like "True Sith".

Also, I really don't see why so many people say that the female Revan path is the stronger one, story-wise. Aside from the romance subplots, I really don't see any difference in personality or character. They both seem equally empty and blank-slated (this is why I've always thought that Revan was highly overrated). As for the romance subplots, I have played as both genders and have found Carth to be a rather disappointing character, and the romance subplot with him to be quite wanting. Bastila, on the other hand, is an fascinating character, especially given her bond with Revan and her turn to the dark side (as well as her redemption, if you are playing as a light-sider; but even on the dark side, her dedication to Revan is all the more intriguing, being deepened by their romantic relationship).
I'm the exact opposite in that I liked Carth's romance and thought that the Bastila plot is too... Bella-Twilight-Like. Thought she was an immature twit who's sudden realization she had feelings makes the story feel much more like a middle school crush than anything mature. She was an interesting character, but honestly her character could be explored from either gender. All that being male really did was add some truly cheesy dialogue between them and I played through as male only once and could not do it again because I hated interacting with Bastila as a male that much. It made her turn to the Dark Side make a little more sense, but it also seemed to undermine what Jolee had said and simply backed up, yet again, the idea that falling to the dark side really is as easy as looking as someone the wrong way.

To each their own. Revan is 100% female in my mind, but I could go either way with Exile. Perhaps there is gender bias in that, but personally I think the two stories and the character interactions make more sense that way. On that same note, I prefer Shepard in Mass Effect to be female because I think the voice acting is better and more commanding, especially as a renegade. I did, however, play Kotor as a male first which is odd because whatever I do in my first play through of a game I usually cement into my mind as being right. I honestly just hated Bastila that much from that perspective.

But, my more personal preferences on them aside, I would have liked Revan to have been female just to see a leading role in Star Wars be female. Star Wars always seems to be about a boy/brothers/etc rising up and fighting while the girls, regardless of how strong they are, take a backseat. Yes, Leia and many other ladies got spotlight and the books often treated them better... but yeah. Exile is possibly the only canon female role that is legitimately at the front of the row, and I've yet to see any mention of her from Bioware or Lucas Arts.

There really are no winners in the gender debate, which is why I wanted Revan to remain -genderless- like he is in the comics. Not mentioning gender worked for the first half of Kotor, it worked in the comics, and it worked in a lot of TSL dialogue. Why just go ahead and make a canon gender for either characters, especially when you're going to skip ahead so far that it ceases to matter? I dunno, maybe I just answered my own question.

*sigh* For all their going on about how they were skipping ahead 300 years to avoid messing with story or canon they sure are messing with a lot of story and canon. I'd like to see them explain more of SWTOR's plot instead of trying to rewrite old plot.

Tommycat
12-13-2009, 01:57 AM
@TA: Well they DID mention Revan's return to the Unknown regions to fight the True Sith. Adding in another piece of TSL. His return to the unknown regions was not part of KotOR. That was specifically from TSL.

Perhaps the reason Revan returned alone was because the Emperor used the friend to turn the other.

Maybe everything was going well until Exile showed up to help Revan...

Zerimar Nyliram
12-13-2009, 02:31 AM
On that same note, I prefer Shepard in Mass Effect to be female because I think the voice acting is better and more commanding, especially as a renegade.

Now there I agree with you wholeheartedly, and for exactly the same reason. The female voice actress (the great Jennifer Hale, who also played Bastila) was incomparably better than her male counterpart. (I think she's good as Paragon as well.) I hold the same sentiments toward Jedi Academy's Jaden Korr: the female VA (Hale once again) is so much better than that hack high schooler they got to do the male voice. Sadly, the latter is canon. :(

adamqd
12-13-2009, 07:57 AM
vague plot points ripped from TSL like "True Sith".




Were the True Sith Not mentioned in the Loading Screens of KotOR I? I'm Probably mistaken though.

Tommycat
12-13-2009, 09:07 AM
Were the True Sith Not mentioned in the Loading Screens of KotOR I? I'm Probably mistaken though.

Oooo there you went and did it... Yer gonna get nerd raged on by Zerimar Nyliram.

But you are right in that the true sith were mentioned in the load screens.

True_Avery
12-13-2009, 09:13 AM
@TA: Well they DID mention Revan's return to the Unknown regions to fight the True Sith. Adding in another piece of TSL. His return to the unknown regions was not part of KotOR. That was specifically from TSL.

Perhaps the reason Revan returned alone was because the Emperor used the friend to turn the other.

Maybe everything was going well until Exile showed up to help Revan...
It'd be interesting, but again the only thing from TSL that seems to be mentioned is the True Sith. Have we had any mention of the Telos project? Any mention of the complete annihilation of all life on a few planets? Any mention of a second smaller Sith Fleet attacking Telos? The Jedi order being utterly destroyed instead of just crippled by Malak, as it seems to infer?

To be fair, though, the second wave of Mandolorians could probably be partly blamed on Exile but that'd be a stretch. To me it just seems they are taking the True Sith idea and leaving everything else in the dust. I wouldn't be surprised if they are trying to run away from the whole Force Wound storyline as fast as possible.

Were the True Sith Not mentioned in the Loading Screens of KotOR I? I'm Probably mistaken though.
Hm, were they? I think I recall some older Sith history being explained, but I think that mention was of the actual Sith species which by now is extinct. The "True" Sith mentioned in TSL seem to be more of a separate civilization using the name Sith, but the actually "True Sith" name comes from Kreia's description of them so I'm fairly certain the idea is meant to infer what Kreia was speaking of, and not of the actual species which was what the load screens infer.

Hallucination
12-13-2009, 03:23 PM
In the thread in the SWK section there was a post (I think it was by Shem) that had a picture of a conversation with Canderous where he mentions that the Mandalorians were convinced to attack the Republic (as in the Mandalorian Wars, not their schoolyard gang routine seen in-game) by the Sith, which kind of hints towards the True Sith being a part of Bioware's plans.

Before you ask, I remember going through that conversation myself, and the post with that picture seems to have been pruned.

True_Avery
12-13-2009, 04:18 PM
In the thread in the SWK section there was a post (I think it was by Shem) that had a picture of a conversation with Canderous where he mentions that the Mandalorians were convinced to attack the Republic (as in the Mandalorian Wars, not their schoolyard gang routine seen in-game) by the Sith, which kind of hints towards the True Sith being a part of Bioware's plans.

Before you ask, I remember going through that conversation myself, and the post with that picture seems to have been pruned.
Ah, I do recall that conversation now. I was sort of under the impression that Avellone and Obsidian took the like, 2-3 references to a more powerful Sith group and rolled with it.

I do not remember if that conversation was in the first or second game though, because I do vividly remember Canderous talking about the Sith in the second game quite a bit but do recall Canderous talking about the Sith only a little if you were really into his story in the first.

Zerimar Nyliram
12-13-2009, 05:31 PM
Were the True Sith Not mentioned in the Loading Screens of KotOR I? I'm Probably mistaken though.

Oooo there you went and did it... Yer gonna get nerd raged on by Zerimar Nyliram.

But you are right in that the true sith were mentioned in the load screens.

Grrrrr! Yes, that is indeed a very old an annoying topic. ;)

Feagildin
12-19-2009, 01:25 AM
Here's my take on this.

* Revan and Malak went into deep space and met the Sith Emperor. They were turned and sent back to prepare the way for the return of the true Sith.

Revan and Malak fell to the darkside during the Mandalorian Wars, but they still considered themselves Jedi. Dark Jedi if you will. They caught the scent of something powerful in deep space and pursued it. They meet the emperor on peaceful terms and he turns them. Not from the light to the dark, but from the Jedi to the Sith.


* Being Sith and away from the Emperorís direct influence neither Revan nor Malak followed orders exactly as they were supposed to. Then, of course, Malak betrayed Revan.

Sith are notorious for being rebellious, angsty, and power-hungry. While the Emperor's away, the children will play. Get me? In other words, no mind control here folks. Just a simple matter of reaching into the cookie jar while the "law" has it back turned.


* The Jedi took in Revan and returned him to the light, though as it was not a natural turn for him when he went dark, there was much they couldnít undo and they decided to remove his memories and hopefully his taint with it. Yes, Revanís return to the light (and his gender as male) are canon.

This one I'm hoping is just mis-worded. And to those whom it may concern: since when has the dark side not left a taint? :raise:
I like the LS story for KotOR. Also, I've always liked female Revan, but hey, we can't always get what we want. :thmbup1:


* Later Revan returned to deep space to confront what he knew was out there but how much he actually remembered and how clearly he remembered it is still a mystery, as are the events that followed. What we do know is that it took hundreds of years for the Sith to re-emerge as originally planned.

IMHO, Revan began 'remembering' his true personality, as well as things that had happened to him before the droid council, I mean, the Jedi Council, wiped his memory and reprogrammed him. From there, he began to realize what going to war had truly cost him: it twisted him into a being who was enslaved by the dark side of the force. He saw clearly for the first time the events that shaped him into the Dark Lord - without the shroud of the dark side clouding his vision. And when he saw, he could not stand idle. So, instead, he gave assignments to his companions, and left for the unknown regions, to do whatever he could to undermine the Sith Emperor and his invasion of the Republic.

DAWUSS
12-24-2009, 12:52 PM
I think they're hinting at the possibility that Revan's on his way to being the next Mandalore the Fraud (the one in the Geonosian gladiator ring - awesome until they ruined him by making him a sockpuppet).

From how I was understanding it, the Mandalorians are goaded into invading the Republic by the True Sith, Revan and friends fight them back (during which he realizes some of the problems of the Republic), Revan and Malak head to unknown regions, see True Sith empire and realize what they're all about, do some housekeeping with the Republic with the help of the Star Forge, Malak jumps Revan, Revan gets captured, Revan defeats Malak, Revan returns to the Unknown Regions, and incites a civil war that delays an invasion for 300 years.

Now, I'm not so sure...

DAWUSS
12-24-2009, 12:54 PM
Being rebellious, angsty, and power-hungry. While the Emperor's away, the children will play. Get me? In other words, no mind control here folks. Just a simple matter of reaching into the cookie jar while the "law" has it back turned.


You're also forgetting the Star Forge. Revan knew what the Star Forge was a lot better than Malak. Malak was going to use that to build and fuel a second "Infinite Empire" while Revan was using it just to achieve an end of reorganizing the Republic.

Feagildin
12-24-2009, 11:23 PM
No, I left the SF out of my post on purpose. Like Vader said about the Death Star: "Don't be too proud of this technological terra you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force." I understand that the SF was a 'being' of the dark side, but it is still insignificant compared to, in some cases, even a single force user, be it a Sith, a Jedi, or an ambitious Galactic Senator.