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Det. Bart Lasiter
12-21-2009, 08:01 PM
In light of the best thread in the entire KotOR sub-forum being ****canned, I decided to make this thread and put forth the theory that both The Beatles and Green Day were both hack bands who have contributed nothing to music and oh-so-much to re-packaging the work of musicians considered too "ethnic" for mainstream audiences of the time to have driven down their throats.

In short: play me some more Chuck Berry licks and sing at me through a cloud of weed smoke and under a fog of acid-soaked hallucinations, Beatles; get off the stage Armstrong & Co, you're a gaggle of middle-aged hacks who slap on foundation and eyeliner until you've filled in ~20 years of wrinkles and you don't even have the decency to come up with your own style of showmanship.

http://i49.tinypic.com/34gpuo0.jpg

:parrot:

Web Rider
12-21-2009, 08:39 PM
In the great words of DeviantArt: This belongs in your journal.

Det. Bart Lasiter
12-21-2009, 09:01 PM
yase you offer a compelling argument why a discussion happening previously is purely a matter for a blog of some kind maybe you should head on back to da and post some more of your "art", shindaku

Favourite band or musician: The Beatles, and Danny Elfman

Darth Avlectus
12-21-2009, 09:05 PM
I have to admit that although a headbanger and do like a lot of modern music and themes, I am somewhat clueless on the prospect of contributing to real music. As some guy with a part time DJMC gig going and playing CDs and MP3s for people, and a musician father, etc. admittedly I am undereducated in music though I am around it a lot.

Video Game music that is independently composed and IMO it is some of the best in recent melodic currents I ever heard. Yet even so this could stand to learn a thing or two from the classics. In one case it did use classics: Gyruss for NES using Beethoven if only briefly for some level intros.

TBH, does anyone (not a music major) really know what a significant contribution to music as a whole would *consist* of?

Web Rider
12-21-2009, 09:33 PM
yase you offer a compelling argument why a discussion happening previously is purely a matter for a blog of some kind maybe you should head on back to da and post some more of your "art", shindaku
There's no need to be disrespectful. You could at least make the effort to copy and paste my DA name correctly. Kavars is a place for serious discussion. What part of "I don't like the *insert band name*" is a serious discussion? Hmm?

The "discussion" before? Sure, it has some interesting merits. This has NONE of them. All you did in that thread was made weird racist statements and post pictures after a SINGLE post on your thoughts on the game. There's no discussion here, there's just more of your mouthing off and stupid pictures.

The entire basis of this thread is: "white people are racist." And frankly, that's not only a terrible place to start any kind of discussion from, it's downright insulting.

Mandalore The Shadow
12-21-2009, 09:35 PM
Favourite band or musician: The Beatles, and Danny Elfman

I love Danny Elfman

Det. Bart Lasiter
12-21-2009, 10:00 PM
There's no need to be disrespectful. You could at least make the effort to copy and paste my DA name correctly. Kavars is a place for serious discussion. What part of "I don't like the *insert band name*" is a serious discussion? Hmm?

The "discussion" before? Sure, it has some interesting merits. This has NONE of them. All you did in that thread was made weird racist statements and post pictures after a SINGLE post on your thoughts on the game. There's no discussion here, there's just more of your mouthing off and stupid pictures.

The entire basis of this thread is: "white people are racist." And frankly, that's not only a terrible place to start any kind of discussion from, it's downright insulting.feel free to just read my post as some sort of neo-malcolm x fight the power thing if you'd like it certainly would save you the trouble of actually arguing feel free to keep thinking they didn't just recycle previously existing music though that is your right as an american :nvr4get:

ganbatte... shindaku-san

http://i49.tinypic.com/e04x8p.jpg

Q
12-21-2009, 11:04 PM
Nothing sparks my interest like the sight of Zappa in a dress and sporting twin ponytails.

Det. Bart Lasiter
12-21-2009, 11:09 PM
the man made a blues song about clubbing a seal he could've dressed in anything he wanted and caught my attention

Q
12-21-2009, 11:20 PM
I always liked "Jazz Discharge Party Hats".

"...was like punching an eclair..."

Jae Onasi
12-22-2009, 12:34 AM
This needs a thesis/topic asap before one of us Kavar's mods comes and closes this down. Throwing around 'all whites are racist' will not be tolerated under forum rules.

Darth Avlectus
12-22-2009, 01:58 AM
<Thread hijack and rail setting>

So then, onto the business of music: What bands in your opinion, articulation, etc. etc. have had the biggest overall impact on music in our modern societies? Which ones have contributed most? Are there any genres/fields of music that are truly inspiring. Why?

I guess I'm being broad and vague b/c I want this to be a frank discussion in real earnest about the effects music has had within the past, say 75 years WITHOUT it turning into a debate which snowballs into a huge forum brawl.

I'll start off: I believe the Shock Rock era was inspired by the Hair Bands of the 1980s. While Bands like Alice Cooper, Twisted Sister, Quiet Riot, among others were alongside Heavy Metal in the eighties, the variation of bizarre and "badboy on rock'n'roll" was a merging unlike others before it and something not yet seen in the world. While this wore itself out and there was significant other breakout in music by the time the late eighties and early ninties rolled around, this element never completely died IMO.

In the 90's Rap had really taken off as well a hip hop, R&B, and this bublle gum-ish pop element had oddly just appeared. Once this begun to wear down, however, Rock came back again.

Marylin Manson was popular for his controversial stuff through the nineties. He was Mr. Shock and bizarre making all the headlines with all sorts of antics. All the while was a major fan of 80's hair bands and metal. Didn't take too long for other bands to follow suit or try to imitate him in some form.
One of my Ex GFs loved Good Charlotte who supposedly did the same--I just never had the interest in listening to them personally. As you may or may not have noticed, Hair bands somewhat came back. IMO due in large part to Manson's actions in pulling Quiet Riot back together for one last hurrah in the late 90's--it inspired the others to come out from their woodpiles.

By the time the 2000s rolled around, to my point of view it seemed that metal, punk, goth, industrial, were making a comeback. While Manson's shenanigans were getting tired, the value of shock went from taboo loathed to assimilated and the new rave. Ozz fest breathed life back into rock music.

The rebellious badboy attitude is something the young of every generation will strive for as they grow up to try to be independent. I'm not sure where it came from but I notice emos and their strange similarity to tilt-head skaters of the 80's, and seem to be a sort of mix of bubblegum-pop, shock, glam, punk, goth and god knows what else. I personally cannot stand emos. Emos they annoy metal heads and both new and old punk rockers alike, but still it is a trend something new born of the past culminations.

IMO all the bizarre stuff can be traced to hair bands. Just my observations and POVs. Metal has always been metal, OLD punk always punk music (New stuff is more about a cliqe of a certian fashion and politics as opposed to just music and a mindset), but it seems there is a third and evolving element outside these two and out of the light of other genres that exists, perhaps bridging the worlds of punk, metal, and all the rest.

I'm very much interested to see opinions of my fellow forumites on the evolution of, and influence exerted by, modern music.

BTW I'm also a very big VG music fan if you hadn't already noticed.

adamqd
12-22-2009, 03:56 AM
White People are Demonic Husks, Thieves, and Destroyers of Cultures, They took the Black man's Soul and made a Buck from Rock N Roll... But I like heavy metal music that is heavily influenced by classical music, so I don't care about all that Malarkey.

My Influence, Yngwie J. Malmsteen: Trilogy.

Jae Onasi
12-22-2009, 01:20 PM
White People are Demonic Husks, Thieves, and Destroyers of Cultures, They took the Black man's Soul and made a Buck from Rock N Roll... But I like heavy metal music that is heavily influenced by classical music, so I don't care about all that Malarkey.

My Influence, Yngwie J. Malmsteen: Trilogy.

If you like symphonic metal, check out Within Temptation, Epica, and Kamelot, along with Roy Khan's first band Conception. Sabretooth (at least I think it was Sabre) linked some Tristania for me, but they're a little too screamy for my taste.

adamqd
12-22-2009, 02:10 PM
hehe will do :)

edit: Happened to have a couple of Kamelot Tracks on a Compilation I had had, Good Stuff :)

Rabish Bini
12-23-2009, 01:20 AM
You say you like Yngwie Malmsteen eh?

Cacophony - Speed Metal Symphony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_Metal_Symphony)

Give that album a try.

adamqd
12-23-2009, 01:30 AM
Got it bud :) I've been a fan of Jason Becker and Marty Friedman since I heard Marty on Megadeth's tornado of Souls back in the day... I followed the Arpeggio's back to the cacophony days :)

Rabish Bini
12-23-2009, 05:05 AM
Got it bud :) I've been a fan of Jason Becker and Marty Friedman since I heard Marty on Megadeth's tornado of Souls back in the day... I followed the Arpeggio's back to the cacophony days :)
Ah, I see you are more well versed in Neo-Classical metal than I first believed, carry on then :)

purifier
12-23-2009, 05:31 PM
I'm very much interested to see opinions of my fellow forumites on the evolution of, and influence exerted by, modern music.

Yeah, I seem to recall a few bands in the past mimicking a few tunes from some of the early artist's in the Classical and Romantic periods. Come to think of it Metallica recreated a piece from Beethoven's 5th symphony in there on music style.

I guess you could say they've been influenced by Beethoven in that respect, or at least James Hetfield was.

urluckyday
12-29-2009, 05:28 PM
I don't get what this thread is about. Are you saying that no musicians today are original or worthwhile?

Tommycat
12-30-2009, 10:39 PM
Well in some cases it is realistic to assume that it was the packaging that made the difference. Some of Elvis's best known songs are actually old blues songs("Hound Dog" was originally done by Big Mamma Thornton). But Elvis was actually a fan of African American Music. Quite a few blues songs were also redone by Led Zeppelin. But I think it's more of a recognition of good music and being respectful. And if it's so bad, then the current crop of R&B artists are falling into the same trap.

As for creative musicians, there are quite a few of them. But you can trace their influences to a number of sources. Though if you are looking for them on normal radio stations, you'd be sorely disappointed. Radio play tends to go to the most generic and bland music of the genre. Radio is the McDonalds of music. Ok maybe Denny's...

While I would tend to agree on the point of Green Day, I shudder to see them placed on the same level as the Beatles.

urluckyday
12-30-2009, 10:55 PM
Certainly there are some bands that shouldn't be placed on the same level of classics. But if no band ever took influences we'd never have genres of any kind and we'd miss out on plenty of music b/c musicians as kids and adults alike listen to their bands and want to replicate them in some way...idk what's wrong with that at all...

Music has its value determined by a listener that enjoys it.
Idk how some people enjoy certain bands but there's gotta be someone who enjoys it, so I just say whatever and listen to what I like.

Tommycat
12-31-2009, 12:02 AM
Certainly there are some bands that shouldn't be placed on the same level of classics. But if no band ever took influences we'd never have genres of any kind and we'd miss out on plenty of music b/c musicians as kids and adults alike listen to their bands and want to replicate them in some way...idk what's wrong with that at all...

Music has its value determined by a listener that enjoys it.
Idk how some people enjoy certain bands but there's gotta be someone who enjoys it, so I just say whatever and listen to what I like.

I guess I didn't make it very clear, but I'm certainly NOT saying that musicians shouldn't taqke influences from other musicians before them. As a musician myself, I take influences from a number of sources... Metallica, Tool, Korn, Bootsy Collins, Geezer Butler, and a littany of others that could take a while to list. All musicians have influences. It helps diversify their style.

As for music value. I equate it as "Simple sells." Some of our most popular songs are the simplest to play. I mean one song I played 5 root notes, but everyone LOVED that song. I hated playing it. I felt like I was going to fall asleep every time I played it. That could be why so many successful bands have the most boring and simple music. It's easy for people to catch the tune. Its easy to sing the song. Easy and simple is easy and simple to repeat.

urluckyday
12-31-2009, 01:28 AM
It's easy for people to catch the tune. Its easy to sing the song. Easy and simple is easy and simple to repeat.

Isn't that the fun in music though?

Tommycat
12-31-2009, 02:09 AM
Isn't that the fun in music though?

For some, but then this thread isn't about fun so much as it is about creativity. Which simple tends to run in the face of creative. *chunk**chunk* *chunk**chunk* is fun, but not very creative. I mean Korn has a lot of songs like that. But then you have Tool with more creative songs, and well... Korn is more popular than Tool(intentionally using major bands for people's understanding). Heck MUSICALLY speaking, death metal bands are some of the more creative. But they are really far off the main stream.

But realistically, if you can't find a creative band out there right now, that is YOUR failure. There are a lot of them out there. Ya just gotta look for the one that meets your needs. But you can't find the most creative bands on broadcast radio. My suggestion would be to get out and check out local bands. It's rather hit or miss, but many of them are FAR more creative than what you hear on the radio.

Maybe the main topic is about The Beatles being overrated. Which I can understand. They weren't the first rock band, and certainly not the most creative. But they did get marketed well. Kinda like Star Wars. Not the first nor best Sci-fi but marketed very well.

El Sitherino
12-31-2009, 02:23 PM
Kinda like Star Wars. Not the first nor best Sci-fi but marketed very well.

You makin waves in the wrong ocean, boy. :xp:

This is true though, most movies and music sell because they're essentially packaged in a shiny little box. There are exceptions, but they're more exceptions that prove the rule in that they compete simply on their ability to mimic the shallow, well-developed chart toppers looks. District 9 would never have been as highly recognized as it was had it not been for those graphics, because in actuality most people care very little for the depth of the material. The same thing happens to music, so you have artists picking up pop elements to cover up meaningful lyrics or creative ideas in genre-bending. Though the most exposed are the ones sticking to very specific formulas. Rappers are essentially doing the same thing NWA did in the 90's without any of the originality and rockers are so peddled up and full of post-production nasal-voice that they can easily be played over eachother and no distinction could be made by general listening.

The market is based on saturation, it's sad and pathetic, but in a world run by the idea of not taking risks it's what we get stuck with.

urluckyday
01-03-2010, 12:39 AM
Rappers are essentially doing the same thing NWA did in the 90's without any of the originality and rockers are so peddled up and full of post-production nasal-voice that they can easily be played over eachother and no distinction could be made by general listening.

The market is based on saturation, it's sad and pathetic, but in a world run by the idea of not taking risks it's what we get stuck with.

I'm sure this will sound like garbage w/ somebody with a 50 avatar...but even someone as commercialized as 50 has offered the music marketplace with something that isn't recycled. I mean, his later albums were recycled from his OWN material but idk, the only thing I find to be similar for rappers these days is in the beats over the material.

However, you do have something with lack of distinction as you can see with the "featuring" (specifically lil wayne and akon).

I think these days you're right, people go for what you can see on MTV (chris brown, kanye, etc.) but purists will be able to find music that is above the generic level that we hear so much today.

anyway, lol, idk what I'm trying to say other than there are still some highly commericalized bands (like 50, or even Coldplay) that deliver high-quality music on a regular basis...

Qui-Gon Glenn
01-07-2010, 04:35 AM
De La Soul. A Tribe Called Quest.

I learned to be interested in rap again with these two. Shamed as I am to say it, NWA was too hard for my little white ass back then, and I was confused since I thought rap was always done with Aerosmith.

De La in particular managed to be fresh, current, provocative, especially in my favorite album, Stakes is High. Talking about real things, and revealing dirt and calling it dirt. Fearless. Unfortunately, their influence on hip-hop went out shortly after the Thug movement took over. I am not black, not in the culture, and so g-rap never made any sense to me, although I did hang with Dre and Snoop and mad blun*z a generous amount ;)

As for other musical influences, Danny Elfman is up there, but only with his band backing him. BOINGO FTW!!!

Prince influenced me greatly.... and so did Led Zepellin (not sure how they escaped Bart's indignation)

As for influence on music in general, I have no clue. Not a music historian. Not really a listener anymore.... talk radio.

Det. Bart Lasiter
01-07-2010, 10:03 AM
because zeppelin owns

thegame197676
01-13-2010, 08:08 PM
A thread like this will always be a matter of opinion and never fact, because this is a clear case of one persons trash is another persons treasure.


Wether or not the Beatles were copy cats of bands we will never hear of is one thing. They did however impact music as a whole forever when they came to the United States. I am not too big of a fan of the Beatles myself, I do however appreciate the Sgt. Peppers record that they released... made for one hell of a movie hehe.

I am a big Green Day fan. Sure their musical style may not be the most original, but its the message they put into their music that I can appreciate.

Like others have said, the music that gets put out on top 40 radio is and will always be flavor of the month music. And when bands see that this is what is selling records, of course they are gonna try to impliment that into their music.