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View Full Version : Argy-Bargy Take 2? Now with added Chavez.


Astor
02-23-2010, 06:05 AM
Trouble is once again stirring between Argentina and the UK over the continued dispute over the Falkland Islands (or Islas Malvinas, if you prefer) and Argentina's vast claims of territorial waters. Of course, it might also have something to do with the fact that several British Oil companies are preparing exploratory operations in the waters of the Islands.

A brief rundown -

Argentina 'tales measures' to prevent British Oil drilling (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7031163.ece)
Argentina to launch diplomatic offensive to reclaim Falklands (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7035650.ece)

And, this morning, everyone's favourite South American dictator Leader has personally asked 'Mrs. Queen' to stop her 'Imperialistic and threatening behaviour'.

Hugo Chavez appeals to the Queen. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8529969.stm)

I doubt that the dispute will result in hostilities this time around (In fact, Ms. Kirchner has reportedly ruled out any military action. Wisely, however, the Royal Navy has apparently increased it's presence as a precaution.), but Argentina reportedly has support from most South American and Caribbean leaders (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8529605.stm).

Thoughts?

EDIT: I seem to have neglected to mention that when asked, the vast majority, if not the entire population of the Islands wish to remain British. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/apr/08/falklands-sovereignty-gordon-brown-argentina) Although, as is often the case, it seems the wishes of those who will be directly effected by any sovereignty claims will be ignored.

jonathan7
02-23-2010, 08:18 AM
Thoughts?

EDIT: I seem to have neglected to mention that when asked, the vast majority, if not the entire population of the Islands wish to remain British. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/apr/08/falklands-sovereignty-gordon-brown-argentina) Although, as is often the case, it seems the wishes of those who will be directly effected by any sovereignty claims will be ignored.

I think it upto the population of the Islands to decide if they are independent or affiliated with anyone else. So long as they wish to remain British, I think that we should offer all the protection needed for them to remain so. And frankly given Argentina's human rights record, and history of Governmental mis-management; if you were on Islander would you want to be affiliated with a country, which just wants to plunder your land?

For those who are going to suggest that the UK is there just to plunder the Fawklands, we have pumped money into the Islands; indeed for the majority of the Islands history they have cost us money to maintain, rather than them creating any revenues for us.

As I understand it we have Eurofighters stationed on the Fawkland Islands, which at least to me would mean any military attack by the Argentinians would be futile, given that air superiority is ours.

SW01
02-23-2010, 09:35 AM
the vast majority, if not the entire population of the Islands wish to remain British.

Far as I'm concerned, that should be the absolute end of it.

The idea that Argentina doesn't 'recognise' the right to self-determination for the Falkland Islands is simply laughable. Not particularly surprising perhaps, but absurd in the extreme. Not as if it's a gray-area issue of a section of their sovereign state seeking to break away.

It all looks to me very much like they are trying to threaten us (though diplomatically) while most of our forces are otherwise engaged (though as mentioned, it's good to read about the RN and RAF being in the area), in a rather transparent attempt to capture any potential wealth in the area. The Guardian article was very informative - essentially (and effectively) countering most of the less stupid Argentinian claims - though, the extent to which 'visiting war graves' could be held to justify an annexation is very dubious indeed.

Jae Onasi
02-23-2010, 11:59 AM
And of course, Chavez, living in an oil-producing country, wouldn't be interested in the Falklands being unprotected by the British at all. Nope. No interest whatsoever there.

Totenkopf
02-23-2010, 03:14 PM
Bah, Chavez is a buffoon. I suspect that this problem in Brit-Argentine relations will continue as such probably in perpetuity. Frankly, if Argentina can claim land so far off its shores (the petitioned claim to land under the ocean as far out as ~700 miles), then I guess the US can claim the same and embargo Cuba and drive out the Chinese from exploring oil off the coast of Cuba. Seems to me that if the Falklands wish to stay independent of Argentina, the Argentines should let them be, as they have enough other problems. Perhaps instead of trying to block oil exploration by Britain, they should appeal to Mexico or the loud mouth in VZ to help them establish their own oil rig presence in the region.

Jae Onasi
02-23-2010, 03:41 PM
Chavez is a buffoon who also manages to control a lot of oil coming into the US, and has stolen everything of value owned by anyone in Venezuela who he happens not to like. God help South America if he ever decides to start building a real army.

Totenkopf
02-23-2010, 03:47 PM
Well, God help him if he builds it w/o Chinese protection. I'm gonna guess that the US might then be forced to act. We can always renegotiate the oil after he's gone.

Samnmax221
02-23-2010, 05:13 PM
Argentina's claim to the Falklands is ****ing joke. The Falklands were uninhabited by the time they arrived, and have been under British control for almost 200 years. Beyond that the residents overwhelmingly want to continue to be British subjects. Now as far as Chavez is concerned I hope he sticks his nose too far into this one and gets burned, or dead, I like dead better.

Ping
02-23-2010, 05:28 PM
Argentina is so ignorant. If the islanders want to remain British, then keep it that way. Besides, Argentina would be pretty foolish to go against Britain, who is pretty damn powerful. Though, the support it's getting from other countries may change that...

Q
02-25-2010, 05:35 PM
Well, I guess that the Argies have forgotten the bloody nose that the Brits gave them the last time that this issue came up. Time for another, I guess?

Totenkopf
02-25-2010, 05:47 PM
I have to wonder, though, how this administration would handle things. The first Falkland's war went pretty well for Britain b/c Ron had Maggie's back.

Ping
02-25-2010, 06:03 PM
Well, I guess that the Argies have forgotten the bloody nose that the Brits gave them the last time that this issue came up. Time for another, I guess?

Yeah, except this time Britain might break Argentina's arm.

Darth Avlectus
02-26-2010, 01:13 AM
Argentina just wants a bigger piece of the action. But are so in detbted to Brittan. Not going to happen.

As to the less-than-stellar human rights record of Argentina...well ok, it isn't stellar or even half nice for that matter, but last I checked Jorge González (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Gonz%C3%A1lez_%28wrestler%29) isn't dead from sheer neglect, *yet*. He's been reliant on their government, for a while now anyways.

@ Hugo Chavez: Man STFU. All you want is oil and you just don't like that Brittan and USA are allies.

I mean, what is he going to do? Start a war on Brittan? I don't think China would back him...though I could be wrong about that. Oh yes, and it isn't as if some major economic benefit wouldn't come to him from all this... OH no. Not him. He just wants Argentina to have oil? That's awful nice of him. :dev9:

VZ is in a bit of a tight bind--not sure what to say about them except God help them in any case. I really like them, actually.
Mexico...has its own interests and is sorta USA's ally.
By extension, wouldn't that mean Mexico was an ally of Brittan in some way?
Y/N/Maybe?

Say It was for real and Brittan were to leave this open. Think of what a vacuum of power that would leave. Inevitably followed a vie for control of the action. There would first be a reeeeal nasty fight for it. Mexico would have an obvious reason to want to accquire control of the islands and the Oil. China would want their cut on top of Chavez and Argentina...not sure of the middle east but wouldn't they also have something to say? How about Russia? The rest of Europe?

This is getting ahead of ourselves because somehow I seriously doubt Brittan would allow any of this to happen even IF Argentina were to reject them. Complete and utter horse puckey.

Samnmax221
02-26-2010, 03:04 AM
Chavez once again makes a fool of himself (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8537998.stm). For a little background Venezuela is currently experiencing a power crisis because a drought has affected their primarily hydroelectric powered grid. In between making statements about how the ****ty infrastructure isn't his fault, he's been accusing the opposition of cutting transmission lines. Also the recent Organization of American States report on Venezuela was not to his liking.


In a televised press conference, the socialist leader called the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights a "mafia", and its leader "excrement". "We will leave it," Chávez said.

Jae Onasi
02-27-2010, 02:48 PM
Chavez took over all assets worth taking over without compensating anyone whose assets he seized. Our missionaries never got any compensation when Chavez came in and just took their plane which they were using to fly in food and medicine to interior tribes. So now that the electric company which he owns isn't working, well gosh, it must be someone else's fault. Right. :roleyess:
Chavez is a freaking fruitcake who unfortunately has a lot of power in the region by virtue of sitting on a giant pool of oil. He's also so full of himself that he's likely to do something stupid if he thinks he can get away with it. If Chavez so much as sneezes towards the Falklands, the US will be there backing up the UK.

Mexico isn't going to side with VZ since they know which side their bread is buttered on. They're not about to risk losing the financial and military relationship they have with us to court Chavez. China does not have a large presence in the Western hemisphere militarily, and the US plans on keeping it that way. China has no intentions of losing its largest buyer of goods to make Chavy happy, either.