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DarthReign
03-15-2010, 02:16 AM
Who thinks this is awful? I love the old republic...but I feel that they should have finished KOTOR off in a trilogy? Like WTF was Revan doing? We won't know now cuz of this bull****.

jrrtoken
03-15-2010, 07:28 AM
*signed*

leXX
03-15-2010, 08:01 AM
Nope, I'm looking forward it.

RogueJedi86
03-15-2010, 09:24 AM
Revan's story was done, I don't need another single player RPG to tell me that. We know each exactly what happened to him. He ran off to the Unknown Regions and joined the Sith. There you go.

And remembering how LucasArts screwed KotOR2 on rushing it out unfinished for a holiday release, I wouldn't wanna see a KotOR3 with the knowledge that they'd potentially screw it too.

Hallucination
03-15-2010, 09:56 AM
Revan's story was done, I don't need another single player RPG to tell me that. We know each exactly what happened to him. He had sex with Bastila (or her mom), got asked for child support, ran off to the Unknown Regions and joined the Sith. There you go.

Fix't to ruin his superhero image. o_Q

RogueJedi86
03-15-2010, 10:18 AM
Doesn't "runs off to join the Sith after his canonical Light side ending" ruin his superhero image enough? At the least it pushes him into gray territory.

Gurges-Ahter
03-15-2010, 11:18 AM
I'm with you, Rogue, in that we don't need another RPG (although I'd prefer it to an MMO), but I disagree that Revan's story was tied-up as neatly as you describe. We know he ran off to the Unknown Regions but we don't know that he joined the Sith. We don't know what he did at all after leaving for the Unknown Regions.

That being said, I'm perfectly content to learn what happened through TOR, and I do believe it will shed some light on the storyline.

RogueJedi86
03-15-2010, 11:25 AM
Didn't one of TOR's writers confirm a few months back that Revan at least met with the Sith Emperor in the Unknown Regions?

I just can't see us needing a full 40-60 hour RPG to explain what happened to Revan after KotOR. It could be easily explained in a paragraph or 2, which would be hard to expand to a full-sized BioWare RPG.

Darth InSidious
03-15-2010, 12:32 PM
No, you're not the only one, in spite of the the rather vociferous pro-voices you'll find in this particular part of LF. However, as shown by the current KotORFiles (http://knightsoftheoldrepublic.filefront.com/poll/) poll, a lot of KotOR fans would rather have KotOR III, and do not feel particularly favourable toward the MMO. I'm also not a fan of TOR.

I should point out that the numberof people who would prefer a real KotOR III is still a minority compared to the number of people who will probably buy TOR when it comes out. Or at least, the number projected by BioWare, LucasArts, and EA.

RogueJedi86
03-15-2010, 12:39 PM
And I'm sure before WoW came out, lots of people wanted a Warcraft 4 instead. The laws of probability say those people HAD to exist. And I'm sure those people are eating their words now that WoW is the online sensation that everyone has played. I can easily see TOR going the same way.

adamqd
03-15-2010, 01:41 PM
I'm Gonna Play it because I play MMO's, and it would be stupid to not play an MMO set in my Favorite "era"... But the fact it is an MMO will 100% Change Knights of the Old Republic forever. The reasons I fell in love with KotOR can not exist in an MMO full Stop. This game will cater to a larger Crowd, none fans, kids, passers by, Trekkies, the lot. KotOR was an Idea, it catered to EU fans and RPG Players, Bioware had nothing to compete against, it was an awesome idea and great story, they released it, we loved it. this is whole other ball Game, they have too many Shoes to shine in my opinion, but I hope its good enough to be put on the same shelf as KotOR.

Darth InSidious
03-15-2010, 02:24 PM
And I'm sure before WoW came out, lots of people wanted a Warcraft 4 instead. The laws of probability say those people HAD to exist. And I'm sure those people are eating their words now that WoW is the online sensation that everyone has played. I can easily see TOR going the same way.

Erm, why would people care that a game is popular if it's not one they enjoy, and was made specifically in place of it? Oblivion is execrable regardless of its popularity; I for one couldn't give a toss how many copies it sold - that doesn't change that it's crap.

Similarly, that TOR may - and note, it may - become popular does not mean that it is: (a) wanted by KotOR fans, (b) likely to be bought by at least a proportion of people who bought KotOR, (c) actually a good game, (d) a satisfactory ending to the series, or (e) going to make people stop wishing for an actual KotOR 3.

You're post is as good as meaningless.

Oh, and actually some of us found the nuances added to Revan's character by Obsidian rather interesting.

Gurges-Ahter
03-15-2010, 02:31 PM
I'm Gonna Play it because I play MMO's, and it would be stupid to not play an MMO set in my Favorite "era"... But the fact it is an MMO will 100% Change Knights of the Old Republic forever. The reasons I fell in love with KotOR can not exist in an MMO full Stop. This game will cater to a larger Crowd, none fans, kids, passers by, Trekkies, the lot. KotOR was an Idea, it catered to EU fans and RPG Players, Bioware had nothing to compete against, it was an awesome idea and great story, they released it, we loved it. this is whole other ball Game, they have too many Shoes to shine in my opinion, but I hope its good enough to be put on the same shelf as KotOR.

This is exactly how I feel. Well put.

Didn't one of TOR's writers confirm a few months back that Revan at least met with the Sith Emperor in the Unknown Regions?

Yes, but that's not the same as saying that Revan's story is done, as you put it. There are a ton of possibilities that could stem from his meeting with the Sith Emperor, especially considering how vague Revan's story is post-KotOR 2. I think you could make another 40-60 hour RPG from it.

That being said, I fully understand the demand for an MMO outweighs that for another RPG. On these forums, however, where there is a large contingent of hardcore KotOR 1 and 2 fans, you will more often find the opposite opinion.

ChAiNz.2da
03-15-2010, 02:57 PM
Nope, I'm looking forward it.
same here :D

Oblivion is execrable regardless of its popularity; I for one couldn't give a toss how many copies it sold - that doesn't change that it's crap.
really? I for one loved Oblivion, and to this day can still play it for hours on end. Pretty much changes it from being 'crap' to me.
You're post is as good as meaningless.
Oh, and actually some of us found the nuances added to Revan's character by Obsidian rather interesting.wow. and some of us didn't. hehe
The only good thing about K2 was Kreia (and that too is a big argument :xp: ). Sorry, but I'm not an Obsidian fan. Frankly, imo, anything Obsidian has touched turns to crap. They screwed up K2 & destroyed NWN 2.. I fear they're going to do the same to FO: New Vegas.

Guess there's all kinds of different views in the gaming world.. doesn't necessarily make one's post meaningless. I could pretty much say the same thing about yours.

RogueJedi86
03-15-2010, 03:03 PM
Don't most people agree that Obsidian did well on KotOR2, the only problem being that LucasArts forced Obsidian to stop work on it so they could release it for Christmas'04? There's so much unfinished content in the files that prove Obsidian had a lot more planned. The blame there should be placed on LucasArts, not Obsidian.

ChAiNz.2da
03-15-2010, 03:41 PM
Don't most people agree that Obsidian did well on KotOR2, the only problem being that LucasArts forced Obsidian to stop work on it so they could release it for Christmas'04? There's so much unfinished content in the files that prove Obsidian had a lot more planned. The blame there should be placed on LucasArts, not Obsidian.Oh, of course, no denying it (LA's guilt).. however, I blame both. :)

Obsidian/Feargus/Avellone (whatever the entity one wants to use) bit off more than they could chew despite the rush in the deadline.


http://www.starwarsknights.com/fullstory.php?id=386

Hallucination
03-15-2010, 08:26 PM
Didn't one of TOR's writers confirm a few months back that Revan at least met with the Sith Emperor in the Unknown Regions?

That was the first time he went into the Unknown Regions, before the events of K1. The second time he was evading a paternity test. And fighting the True Sith (that was really just a way for him to kill time. And aliens).

EricDraven
04-16-2010, 02:33 PM
Revan's story was done, I don't need another single player RPG to tell me that. We know each exactly what happened to him. He ran off to the Unknown Regions and joined the Sith. There you go.

And remembering how LucasArts screwed KotOR2 on rushing it out unfinished for a holiday release, I wouldn't wanna see a KotOR3 with the knowledge that they'd potentially screw it too.

Yeah....Revan goes to unknown regions,joins them and suddenly Sith wait another 300 years to attack....:rolleyes:

RogueJedi86
04-16-2010, 04:55 PM
Why not? The Sith are known for patience, like how they waited a thousand years to get revenge for being decimated at the Battle of Ruusan 1000BBY. If they can wait 1000 years to get revenge for a single lost battle, I think 300 years is nothing. :)

EricDraven
04-16-2010, 05:03 PM
Why not? The Sith are known for patience, like how they waited a thousand years to get revenge for being decimated at the Battle of Ruusan 1000BBY. If they can wait 1000 years to get revenge for a single lost battle, I think 300 years is nothing. :)

Ok...that is your opinion.
But we'll see what Bioware and LA have to say about it!
I at least hope that we will get some answers....

Seires
04-16-2010, 05:30 PM
I'm pretty sure Bioware/Lucas Arts will cover the 300 year gap with more story. Maybe it will be covered in the SWTOR book coming out in a couple months as well. Fear not, I have full faith we will be given good details as of what happened with Revan and everything else that happened in the 300 year span.

EricDraven
04-17-2010, 08:11 AM
I'm pretty sure Bioware/Lucas Arts will cover the 300 year gap with more story. Maybe it will be covered in the SWTOR book coming out in a couple months as well. Fear not, I have full faith we will be given good details as of what happened with Revan and everything else that happened in the 300 year span.

Imagine this happening:
Some character in the game says the lines:"Do you want to know what happened 300 years ago to Revan and the Exile?"
Your char:"YES!!!"
Some char"Well..."
TQtQUedddio

sarpedon2
05-03-2010, 12:40 PM
I haven't really followed this much so my opinion may not be judged well but this is something I'm not going to look forward to. The back-story seems pretty bad, particularly the Sith Empire. When I thought of the True Sith, I was hoping for the last of the Sith Species now growing in numbers. I was pretty disappointed in that its just the Sith Empire from Naga Sadows time, I was hoping for something earlier which would have made more sense. The retconning of Revan's motive really bothered me. I enjoyed the idea that Revan only invaded the Republic to make it stronger against the True Sith more, rather than he was evil all along which just seems cliché. Once again I apologise if I've gotten my facts wrong. The thing that bothered me the most was perhaps the design. There is nearly not a single design in the game that looked like it was from the Late Republic-Galactic Empire era. I understand there may be an in-game explanation but it seems a little lazy just to nick designs that have already been done rather than do something original. It seems like the designers never thought hard on how this galaxy and its inhabitants should look like. KotOR and TSL may have done the same but they had some pretty good designs e.g Sith Trooper armour, Sith fighter ship, Taris, Kashyyk, Sand crawlers. The designers for KotOr and TSl made stuff look like it was made from that time, not from a future time.

Rant Over:p

Dervish108
05-03-2010, 01:21 PM
I would have liked to have seen Revan's story wrapped up, but I accept it may be one of those mysteries, like Yoda's species and backstory.

If SW:TOR turns out to be an excellent MMORPG, I wont mind at all.

The retconning of Revan's motive really bothered me. I enjoyed the idea that Revan only invaded the Republic to make it stronger against the True Sith more, rather than he was evil all along which just seems cliché

That reminds me of Admiral Tolwyn in Wing Commander IV, creating the Black Lance forces for some unseen threat. Which they did end up with via the Nephilim.

RogueJedi86
05-03-2010, 01:48 PM
I can understand the complaint of things looking way too much like the movies. I had that complaint myself. My biggest beef was how the sandcrawlers in TOR look identical to the ones from ANH and nothing like the ones from KotOR. The KotOR ones looked sandcrawler-ish without blatantly copying the movie ones. But a mere 300 years later, the TOR ones look identical to the ones that show up in the movies 3500 years later. In light of KotOR's fantastic-yet-familiar designs, the fact that within 300 years of KotOR they change everything to a look that won't change for 3500 years is disappointing.

Knight Of Honor
05-05-2010, 05:25 AM
^^^^^^^^^

I agree.. Very dissapointing. Lack of creativity.. Ever since this game was announced i have feared that it will ruin the great Old Republic feel in this unique & unexplored era, introduced by the original Kotor games. I fear Bioware forget themselves. Very sad, this game is huge, and will probably and unfortunately take up to much space in this era. So there will be less and less room in the old republic era for new and original stories in the future.

I really hope, after this MMO affair calms down, that game developers will go back to making real SP-RPG games.. MMO games will get to superficial to carry a great story experience.

RogueJedi86
05-05-2010, 11:58 AM
Well I don't think that just because they made another single player game they'd instantly go back to creative again. That mentality is already in their heads. Hell, I kinda get why they're doing the "uncreative" look. They want TOR to appeal to people who never played KotOR and only saw the movies, so they're drawing visual influence from them too, so those people can kinda "play the movies". I just wish they'd throw in a few more original designs. Like the Sith Trooper armor from KotOR, it was familiar without being blatantly clone/stormtrooper in design. It'd just be nice if they carried over at least a few of the KotOR designs while they're busy copying the movies' designs.

Knight Of Honor
05-06-2010, 05:16 AM
Well, that is the point i was trying to make. A MMO can never match a SP game experience; because for a MMO game it is absolutely vital to appeal to a much larger part of the public, so it is destined to become a commercial machine, and it will loose a lot of the magic we experience in the original kotor games. This is the reason why i personally dont like MMO games.

RogueJedi86
05-06-2010, 01:50 PM
I like MMOs. I'm sure I'll enjoy TOR anyways, and play it for years. My complaints are mostly nitpicks anyways. Not like I'll be around the sandcrawlers non-stop, and they're just one tiny part of the big game.

Hallucination
05-06-2010, 02:53 PM
I like MMOs. I'm sure I'll enjoy TOR anyways, and play it for years. My complaints are mostly nitpicks anyways. Not like I'll be around the sandcrawlers non-stop, and they're just one tiny part of the big game.
That is, of course, until they release the first expansion, The Old Republic: Sandcrawler Adventures, with 10 new levels of content, all of which is in, on or otherwise directly involving sandcrawlers.

Blix
05-06-2010, 07:11 PM
Even though I have yet to begin playing an actual MMO, for some reason a Star Wars mmo taking place in the Old Republic just seems cooler than the rest to me (especially the mixture of organic and machine components on Taris). I agree that Lucasarts SHOULD have finished off the Revan/Exile story with a third and final installment beforehand instead of giving us two very "wtf endings" in TSL. I think this game looks quite promising to be honest, I only wish I could afford a subscription.

Tommycat
05-06-2010, 10:44 PM
Ugh.. this again?

I understand that people want a finish to the Revan story. But Obsidian basically ruined the possibility of that. They sent him off to fight the True Sith, ALONE. He's either the most powerful jedi EVAR! or he gets turned back to the dark side. It could very well be that he delayed the Sith attack. But honestly Obsidian killed Revan. The Unknown regions is the equivalent to "He went away, never to be seen again."

If Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back had been handled the same way, Luke would have been gone, with only a guest appearance, and everyone would have been talking about his accomplishments as if he were a god. Vader wouldn't have been in it as he would have been killed at the end of Star Wars(ANH). And it would have been given over to Nick Meyer to do a script.

sarpedon2
05-09-2010, 10:39 AM
The thing that bothers me the most about this entire game though is the handling the Sith. I know after reading an interview with Chris Avellone that Obsidian's intention was to have the True Sith a remnant of Naga Sadow's Sith Empire (like Bioware have done). But instead of having them shadowy, slowly crippling the Republic internally (like Sidious), TOR Sith just go for an all out attack against the republic. I know I don't much about the storyline and some may not agree with me, but that seems pretty stupid. I'd would have assumed that the True Sith would have been more cautious, weakening the Republic gradually before finally striking out, delivering the killing blow.

RogueJedi86
05-09-2010, 12:56 PM
On the grand scale of the SW universe timeline, "slow crippling the Republic internally" has only happened........once, with Palpatine/Sidious, and that took a thousand years of waiting/planning. All other times it was all-out war. When your entire group is based on succumbing to emotions like aggression and anger, subtlety is rare.