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Astor
04-05-2010, 06:16 PM
Downing Street has confirmed that the Prime Minister is going to Queen to dissolve Parliament (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8603591.stm)

So, it looks like May 6th, which has been thrown around news channels, papers and Westminster *is* the date that the country will decide whether or not to install a new government.

Will Labour reach a fourth term of Government? Will we be waking up to Prime Minister Cameron on May 7th?

Or, are we going to see a hung parliament, which until this weekend, has been the prediction among many of the political elite?

Of course, there's a lot to consider - who has the best plan for the recovery, who will look after the armed forces, who's going to cut what where, and a whole lot more.

And this time round, we have the added pleasure of TV debates between the 'Big Three' (or five, depending on whether Plaid Cymru and the SNP manage to get some airtime).

So, what do people think?

jonathan7
04-05-2010, 06:44 PM
Hung Parliament, with the Conservatives forming some sort of Coalition, meaning (unfortunately) Prime Minister Cameron (though that's better than Brown) with either UKIP (depending on votes) or the Lib Dems, forming the Coalition; hopefully the latter meaning Menzies Campbell is made Chancellor...

Litofsky
04-05-2010, 06:44 PM
Being the ill-informed American that I am, the term "dissolving Parliament" isn't exactly the best choice of words there, Britons. >_>

Ping
04-05-2010, 06:53 PM
Being the ill-informed American that I am, the term "dissolving Parliament" isn't exactly the best choice of words there, Britons. >_>

Ditto. You guys had me scared for a sec. :confused:

Astor
04-05-2010, 06:54 PM
Hung Parliament, with the Conservatives forming some sort of Coalition, meaning (unfortunately) Prime Minister Cameron (though that's better than Brown) with either UKIP (depending on votes) or the Lib Dems, forming the Coalition; hopefully the latter meaning Menzies Campbell is made Chancellor...

I understood that in the event of a hung parliament, the current Government is traditionally allowed by the Queen to attempt a coalition - which would mean that Brown & Co would potentially still be in office.

Although, i'm not entirely sure how a hung parliament works - I've been reading about it, and just can't get my head around it.

I agree that the Conservatives gaining power still isn't a great prospect, but is infinitely more preferable to another five years of a dead-dog Labour government, complete with Brown, Balls (Darling certainly won't be chancellor on May 7th), Harman (or should that be Harperson?), and Mandelson's ****-eating grin.

Aside from the big issue of who will be in power on May 7th, i'm more worried about the potential increase in influence that the BNP and other extremist groups will enjoy - it certainly wouldn't be a surprise should they gain a seat in the Commons, but it would be incredibly sad if they did.

Being the ill-informed American that I am, the term "dissolving Parliament" isn't exactly the best choice of words there, Britons. >_>

Hmm, I tried to think of a clever joke involving dissolving agents, but couldn't.

Would 'Terminate' be a better word? :p

Salzella
04-05-2010, 07:13 PM
hopefully the latter meaning Menzies Campbell is made Chancellor...
Don't you mean Vince Cable?

either way I'm hoping Labour win or gain more places in a hung parliament - the Tories getting any sort of majority would be very bad for the country for all that Labour is by no means perfect. re: hung parliament, I think that a change from the adversarial politics they practise at the moment would do british politics some good.

SW01
04-05-2010, 09:01 PM
This is the sort of narrow margin that makes NI parties happy. :lol: It means that there is a good possibility that our MPs will have a greater voice in Parliament, though certainly the Ulster Unionists will (if they manage to gain more than one seat this time...) in the Tory alliance thing. I'm not very fond of our one-issue parties, though.

I'd hope that the size of NI parties in Parliament would reduce the likelihood or necessity of resorting to sucking up to UKIP, the BNP or the like. The DUP after all is the fourth largest currently, though by all accounts that could change a bit after the election.

Litofsky
04-05-2010, 10:00 PM
Would 'Terminate' be a better word? :p

Well, considering the fix that you guys are in right now, it might just be. :xp:

Of course, one might say that's the pot calling the kettle black...

jonathan7
04-05-2010, 10:26 PM
Don't you mean Vince Cable?

Yeah I did... 3 hours sleep and 12 hours on the road can do that to you >.>

Pavlos
04-06-2010, 05:59 AM
Should be an interesting election: I still don't know what the best outcome would be. The polls are probably going to widen what with Labour's poster cock-up.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00704/Poster385_704471a.jpg
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01609/camtory_1609430c.jpg

Being the ill-informed American that I am, the term "dissolving Parliament" isn't exactly the best choice of words there, Britons. >_>
That's the correct term: Parliament is dissolved during a general election i.e. it ceases to exist. It's what you get for having a democracy designed and built in 1688.

Menzies Campbell
For any non-Britons: this man's name is pronounced "Ming-iz". The "(n)z" is actually a "ȝ"; which is a letter capable of producing whatever ridiculous sound the writer wants it to in the middle of an English word generally makes a "gh" sound, but apparently can make an "ng" sound in Scots.

Astor
04-06-2010, 07:02 AM
Should be an interesting election: I still don't know what the best outcome would be. The polls are probably going to widen what with Labour's poster cock-up.

Yes, Labour certainly seems to be lagging behind on the poster front.

http://heady.co.uk/politics/conservatives_ive_never_voted_tory_before_600.jpg

Just listened to the coverage of the PM going to the Palace and his subsequent speech - did anyone else think it funny that he opened by saying that that Her Majesty 'has kindly agreed to dissolve parliament'?

It's not like she had an option, and we all knew that he wouldn't dare leave it till June 3rd, otherwise he'd risk looking like a coward.

I guess we now have four weeks of endless electioneering, canvassing, leaflets and yet more mud slinging!

Tommycat
04-06-2010, 09:32 AM
at least your electioneering and mudslinging isn't covered by every news outlet on the planet to embarrass your country with how ugly it gets.

as an aside, "Dissolving" Parliament sounds like fun, what kind of acid do you prefer.

Litofsky
04-06-2010, 01:49 PM
at least your electioneering and mudslinging isn't covered by every news outlet on the planet to embarrass your country with how ugly it gets.

as an aside, "Dissolving" Parliament sounds like fun, what kind of acid do you prefer.

Throwing H2SO4 at faces is pretty common during elections. :devsmoke:

Pavlos
04-09-2010, 02:00 PM
Voter Power Calculator (http://www.voterpower.org.uk/)

Calculate how much a vote in your constituency is worth. Pretty nifty.

In York Outer, one person does not really have one vote, they have the equivalent of 0.913 votes.

The power of voters in this constituency is based on the probability of the seat changing hands and its size.

Voters in York Outer have 3.61x more voting power than the UK average.

I trust everyone knows about the BBC Election website's snazzy seat calculator (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8609989.stm), by now.

Astor
04-09-2010, 02:11 PM
In Nuneaton, one person does not really have one vote, they have the equivalent of 0.352 votes.

Voters in Nuneaton have 1.39x more voting power than the UK average.

Joy. I'll still be doing my best to reduce Labour's majority.

I trust everyone knows about the BBC Election website's snazzy seat calculator (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8609989.stm), by now.

I've been playing around with that this afternoon, and have played around with their swingometer a little too.

Of course, for those who are tired of the Election already, there's always the brilliant Slapometer (http://www.slapometer.com/).

So, the National Insurance mashup continues between the Tories and Labour, with varying levels of ferocity, and a Scottish Labour Candidate (Ex) proves to be a twit. I wonder what next week will bring?

I'm quite looking forward to next Thursday's debate on ITV - maybe the Prime Minister will directly answer a question for a change?

SW01
04-09-2010, 02:33 PM
Voter Power Calculator (http://www.voterpower.org.uk/)

Calculate how much a vote in your constituency is worth. Pretty nifty.
In North Down (though I can't figure why it's listed as 'Down North') we have the equivalent of 0.219 votes each. Interesting.

The average UK voter has 1.15x more voting power than voters in Down North.
Discrimination. :xp:

It's listed as 'very safe' but it could be interesting this year with Lady Hermon standing down from the UUP/Conservatives and going Independent. And yes I realise that's only interesting to people in North Down. :lol:

Salzella
04-09-2010, 05:33 PM
I'm quite looking forward to next Thursday's debate on ITV - maybe the Prime Minister will directly answer a question for a change?
I predict Gordon will be solid if uninspiring, dealing in pragmatism rather than idealism, rather like Darling was in the Chancellors debates, whle still looking a wee bit stubborn and hidebound. Nick Clegg will throw himself at absolutely anything - as he has done with his Paxman interview - because he basically has no chance of winning and so might as well enjoy himself, and David Cameron will continue to come out with vaguely pleasant sounding mush in lieu of any ideas, whilst praying that people don't realise that yes, George Osborne really is their potential Chancellor-in-waiting (lord help us).

Our uni is putting it on in one of the unions. I suspect it will be one of the few places in the country where Labour still has the majority of the support.

Totenkopf
04-10-2010, 04:15 PM
Joy. I'll still be doing my best to reduce Labour's majority.

Of course, for those who are tired of the Election already, there's always the brilliant Slapometer (http://www.slapometer.com/).

:p Wish we had one of those for US pols. Then everytime Pelosi opens her mouth (to make yet another vapid statement) I could slap it. :devsmoke: Didn't pass up the op, though, to slap Brown around a little.

Astor
04-11-2010, 06:47 AM
There's a disturbing story in today's Sunday Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7094308.ece) claiming that cancer patients have been targeted by a Labour mailshot which, to put it bluntly, appears to claim 'Vote Tory and die'.

LABOUR has become embroiled in a row about the use of personal data after sending cancer patients alarmist mailshots saying their lives could be at risk under a Conservative government.

Cards addressed to sufferers by name warn that a Labour guarantee to see a cancer specialist within two weeks would be scrapped by the Tories. Labour claims the Conservatives would also do away with the right to be treated within 18 weeks.

Cancer patients who received the personalised cards, sent with a message from a breast cancer survivor praising her treatment under Labour, said they were “disgusted and shocked”, and feared that the party may have had access to confidential health data.

I'm sure that this won't be the only distasteful mail campaign of the election, but to attempt to gain votes and political points by specifically targeting cancer sufferers is disgusting in the extreme, although I should make it clear that I am saying this as a previous sufferer (although not breast cancer, obviously) myself, so I may be a little biased.

EDIT: And I could care less about who sits in the Lords with the likes of Lords Mandelson, Martin and the Kinnocks in there already, but this just smacks of spite (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7094306.ece) - outside of politics, this is a man who has served his country dilligently for decades, and consistently stood up for the Army - even if it has meant fierce criticism of the Government.

Astor
04-13-2010, 03:52 PM
So, this week is 'Manifesto Week', with Labour's manifesto launched yesterday, the Conservative launch today, and the Liberal Democrat launch tomorrow morning (Plaid Cymru and UKIP also launched today, and the SNP launched yesterday).

Just looking at the covers of the two manifestos presents two very different visions of a future Britain.

http://www2.labour.org.uk/uploads/50f2ecb8-41d4-0664-59b3-013e288a09f4.jpg http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47636000/jpg/_47636775_009106601-1.jpg

Labour's manifesto has been derided as empty, 'nothing we haven't heard before', and no doubt the same will be said of the Conservative manifesto. Although one has to wonder why, after 13 years, we don't already have a 'Future fair for all'.

Both launches were slick, and filled with the faithful supporters of each party - although there was something very ugly in the way that Mr. Brown allowed his audience (and the Cabinet, it must be said) to repeatedly heckle the Press - even going so far as accusing Sky's Adam Boulton, on asking a question about the use of an NHS hospital for an election rally (no, no breach of rules here, Cabinet Office - it's not technically NHS - yet.), of being a Tory, and even saying this with his uncomfortable smile -

“it’s not a fair press. It’s a fair audience.”

I imagine that Mr. Brown will eventually regret saying that. It's well known in the Press and other circles that the Prime Minister does not like being questioned by the press, as Tom Bradby (http://blog.itv.com/news/tombradby/?p=232) mentions, but yesterday's display looked childish and petty - 'How dare you question our glorious leader?'

I missed any coverage of the Conservative launch, so I don't know how it compares to Labour's, but I have heard mention of 'Cameron's JFK moment'. Of course, that could all turn out to be nothing.

I wonder what the Lib Dems will come up with.

And yes, in case you were wondering, I have an intense dislike of the Labour Party.

mur'phon
04-13-2010, 05:47 PM
I'm hoping for a Lib Dem/Conservative government. Sure, the stockmarket isn't too keen on a hung parliament, but at least this way the conservatives less desirable policies (insta cuts, europhobia etc) would be moderated. Also, since the conservatives suffers (to some extent) under first past the post, there is at least a chance in getting it abolished.

And please keep the NI parties outside the government, if only to avoid unerving the other side. Unless Brittains election laws forbids this, I'd prefer them from influencing the government from outside should they become kingmakers.

Salzella
04-13-2010, 10:55 PM
Also, since the conservatives suffers (to some extent) under first past the post, there is at least a chance in getting it abolished.

how exactly? and labour is by far the more likely of the two prime candidates to change that particular aspect, besides the lib dems although they have **** all chance of getting in and therefore their policies are more or less only of interest as a sort of tie-breaker.

mur'phon
04-14-2010, 06:23 AM
Labor "waste" much fewer votes than the conservatives due to first past the post, it's one of the reasons why this election is close. Do you really expect politicians to vote for a law that will make them less likely to gain power?

Pavlos
04-14-2010, 06:37 AM
Labor "waste" much fewer votes than the conservatives due to first past the post, it's one of the reasons why this election is close. Do you really expect politicians to vote for a law that will make them less likely to gain power?
They have promised to change it: they're cutting the number of seats in the Commons. It's not so much electoral reform as it is reskewing the hopelessly unfair system we have now.

The Tories are really not the party of constitutional reform: a good deal of their backbenchers think that the constitutional settlement of the Glorious Revolution was just fine and dandy.

mur'phon
04-14-2010, 04:50 PM
Fair point, however, since whoever wins will probably do so narowly, selling the abolition of FPTP to Labor is going to be hellish as it's elections like theese where the FPTP system can lead to a Labor win.

Pavlos
04-15-2010, 07:01 AM
Fair point, however, since whoever wins will probably do so narowly, selling the abolition of FPTP to Labor is going to be hellish as it's elections like theese where the FPTP system can lead to a Labor win.
The Labour party have said that there will be a referendum on electoral reform after the election. They're proposing a change to the alternative vote system, which is better than nothing, I suppose. Whether or not it happens is another matter.

Astor
04-16-2010, 04:38 AM
And the winner is... Nick Clegg, by a wide margin.

I don't see why it is as surprising as some are claiming, though - many had said that the third party would benefit greatly from this equal footing. They had little to lose and much to gain from such a debate.

Cameron should have been a lot more forceful with Brown - especially when he talked about fixing existing systems - why no 'you've had 13 years to do that already, so why now?' ? I think that being on the center podium also damaged his chances somewhat, as at times it looked like he was caught in a crossfire between Clegg and Brown.

All three did make good points, and Brown even managed to make a joke. About Lord Ashcroft (so plant-like it's almost a tree). ::

Brown's constant stream of 'I agree with Nick' was ridiculous, especially when Clegg rounded on him.

The next two are going to be much more interesting. People are going to be paying far more attention to Clegg and the Liberal Democrats now, and I don't think he'll get as much of an easy ride in them.

Pavlos
04-16-2010, 02:43 PM
I agree with Nick (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2010/apr/16/digital-economy-bill-nick-clegg).

Darth InSidious
04-16-2010, 03:21 PM
I agree with Nick (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2010/apr/16/digital-economy-bill-nick-clegg).
It's said that Beau Nash agreed with Nick Clegg no less than five times yesterday.

Salzella
04-16-2010, 03:31 PM
I though Clegg was impressive and Brown was more convincing than Cameron. Brown was definitely angling for future pacts in a hung parliament with the Lib Dems though he did perhaps over-do it. I thought that Clegg came across as occasionally too 'me against the world' and at a few points just sounded whiny. He did make some good points though and to be fair had a lot of ammunition to work with.

Pavlos
04-16-2010, 03:46 PM
It's said that Beau Nash agreed with Nick Clegg no less than five times yesterday.
A milkmaid in Somerset saw five cows mooing the words, and 'tis said that three times did the monuments of the yard at Shrewsbury rise up and release their horrid charge, whose scaly arms and shotten heads cried out to Moon and Carriage that Nick was right: the words "I agree" on their nicked and shrunken lips.

I also saw a mudcrab the other day.

adamqd
04-16-2010, 04:16 PM
I don't drive, I don't use public Transport, I'm not an immigrant... I am a Sophisticated sex Robot though, who should I vote for?

Darth InSidious
04-16-2010, 06:17 PM
I don't drive, I don't use public Transport, I'm not an immigrant... I am a Sophisticated sex Robot though, who should I vote for?

Vote? We don't let your kind vote - you'll have to stand for parliament with the rest of the robotic whores.

Pavlos
04-17-2010, 08:57 AM
Who has David Cameron been talking to? (http://www.fridgemagnet.org.uk/toys/dave-met.php)

"Last week, I met a wheelchair-bound reformed paedophile, who told me that homosexual activists went to Eton."

Totenkopf
04-17-2010, 09:07 AM
So, what was the original statement he was being mocked over?

Pavlos
04-17-2010, 09:25 AM
Oh, Call Me Dave turned the first ten minutes of the election debate into an anecdote competition with some terribly contrived story about meeting "A spot-welder" who supports the Conservatives or something.

Personally, I agree with Nick.

"Last week, I met a Scottish sort in Westminster who told me that he agreed with Nick."

Salzella
04-17-2010, 11:34 AM
Don't you know he's a man of the people? Some of his best friends are poor.

Det. Bart Lasiter
04-17-2010, 11:53 AM
"Last week, I met a Dutch Chelsea supporter, who told me that the Minimum Wage killed Diana."

e: "Last week, I met a Polish policeman, who told me that teenagers high on meow meow had been shouting at buses on the high street."

what is meow meow

Salzella
04-17-2010, 12:36 PM
^^ A cheap, legal and dangerous high apparently. It killed one kid so it must be deadly. Oh wait...

adamqd
04-17-2010, 01:07 PM
Vote? We don't let your kind vote - you'll have to stand for parliament with the rest of the robotic whores.

Damn you Metalliphallus®, Damn you to Hell!

Last week, I met a Polish policeman, who told me that teenagers high on meow meow had been shouting at buses on the high street."

what is meow meow

4-methylmethcathinone, aka MCAT, hence the "Meow", legal amphetamine, well soon to be illegal, some of the lowlifes in my area like to sniff on that tihs.

Astor
04-18-2010, 05:31 PM
Oh, Call Me Dave turned the first ten minutes of the election debate into an anecdote competition with some terribly contrived story about meeting "A spot-welder" who supports the Conservatives or something.

I believe it was a man in Portsmouth who told him about something. But it was the way he said it -

Last week I met a black man

That was quite a surprise, and it did sound a little snobbish.

Although I do think the media frenzy around Nick Clegg is getting ridiculous. However true it might be, I never expected to see 'Clegg as popular as Churchill' on the front page of the Sunday Times.

As for the Digital Economy bill, I have to say I agree with Nick. :D

http://lucasforums.com/picture.php?albumid=100&pictureid=6334

Totenkopf
04-30-2010, 05:06 PM
So, what do you guys make of Brown's chances in light of his recent embarrassing gaffe?

Pavlos
05-06-2010, 08:29 AM
Well, I just cast my vote for the Liberal Democrats. Unfortunately, they don't stand a hope in Hell of taking this seat but the goal is to up their share of the national vote, making the case for electoral reform that much stronger.

In other news, it turns out that the New York Times has a rather skewed view of our democracy:

Clicky (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/03/arts/dance/03dancevote.html)
In a general election as impossible to predict as the one here on Thursday, with many constituencies in the balance and a large chance of a hung Parliament, any pressing issue may swing the vote of the undecided. One of these issues is dance.
[...]
Ms. Miller is careful not to urge the cause of any one party. “We simply want dance to be recognized as an issue.”
Makes satire superfluous, doesn't it?

Totenkopf
05-06-2010, 11:07 AM
The NYT has a rather skewed version of a lot of things. :p

Astor
05-06-2010, 11:22 AM
I shall be casting my vote in the next two hours or so, attempting to end 18 years of Labour in my area, and hopefully the country.

If Brown is PM tomorrow i'll be both saddened and amazed.

Salzella
05-06-2010, 12:01 PM
I went Labour tactically, though to be honest the whole tactical voting thing makes me a feel a little dirty. Hopefully enough pressure can be brought to bear on whoever wins to introduce PR. Hopefully then we can actually vote for who we believe in which in my case would be the Greens. This is also one (of many) reasons why voting Tory would be a disaster - they are the only party of the main three that has made no commitment to introducing PR. Oh, and they're scum. Nearly forgot that bit.

@Totenkopf: that 'gaffe' was a ridiculous bit of the media making a story out of absolutely nothing. She was bigoted, and it would have been worse if he had shrugged it of - betraying a lack of principle - or even worse if he had agreed because what she was spouting was the worst xenophobic paranoid crap that most people who vote BNP use to justify themselves.

SW01
05-06-2010, 01:39 PM
I voted at a quarter past 10 this morning - for the first time that it actually matters on a national scale.

I'm hoping to see some indication of a swing away from the extreme parties here - but on a larger scale of course a shiny new government tomorrow. :xp:

Astor
05-06-2010, 02:30 PM
Oh, and they're scum. Nearly forgot that bit.

If that's your view of anyone voting Conservative, I have to say i'm rather proud to be 'scum'. :¬:

Revan 411
05-06-2010, 06:03 PM
If I were living in the U.K, and if I were over 18, (Sorry, I dunno what age you have to be in order to vote there) I'd most likely vote for Nick Clegg of the Liberal Democrats.

David Cameron is "too" Conservative, (meaning, that he'll remove a couple of Beneficial changes to Britain, and will take the UK all the way back to the 80's) and Gordon Brown has issues that the British people already knows about.

Ping
05-06-2010, 06:36 PM
If I were living in the U.K, and if I were over 18, (Sorry, I dunno what age you have to be in order to vote there) I'd most likely vote for Nick Clegg of the Liberal Democrats.

David Cameron is "too" Conservative, (meaning, that he'll remove a couple of Beneficial changes to Britain, and will take the UK all the way back to the 80's) and Gordon Brown has issues that the British people already knows about.

^I'd do the same thing.

Alexrd
05-06-2010, 08:08 PM
David Cameron is "too" Conservative, (meaning, that he'll remove a couple of Beneficial changes to Britain, and will take the UK all the way back to the 80's)

How? Anyway, if I were in the UK, I would vote for the Conservatives. It's the only one that favours right-wing politics.

By the way, congrats for them.

Darth InSidious
05-06-2010, 10:08 PM
At time of writing, Labour hold 37 seats and 31.0% of the vote, the Conservatives 21 seats and 27.9% of the vote and the Lib Dems 4 seats and 18.2% of the vote. 73 seats declared so far, ~4% swing to the Conservatives.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/

Totenkopf
05-07-2010, 04:50 AM
So, now that the Tories have the edge in seats over Labour, how long do think it will take either to emerge w/a "victorious" coalition? Also, what effect do you expect to see on US-UK relations?

Darth InSidious
05-07-2010, 02:14 PM
Not a fan of simple questions, Tot? :p

The Conservatives don't have enough seats for overall majority, on 306. But even together, the Liberal Democrats and Labour only have 315. With a target of 326, they might get away with further alliances with the Scottish Nationals and with Plaid Cymru (they're Welsh, for those not up on the more obscure end of British politics - it's pronounced "plied come-ree" :p ), they could get a further 9 seats. But that still leaves them short.

So failing a Lib Dem-Conservative pact, I'm going to predict a couple of days of scrabbling to win over independents and minor groups like the SNP, Sinn Fein, the DUP (who will probably go Conservative), the SDLP, and anyone else with a seat.

What effect this has on US-UK relations rather depends on who ends up in power.

Apparently, Cameron and Clegg are negotiating at the moment. A Lib-Con pact would end up with a majority at 363 seats, but it'd be weak and slow, and the real worry is that this is going to be used by some groups - the Liberal Democrats and Labour both being keen on the idea - to force through Proportional Representation, on the basis that while it can't produce decisive government, First Past the Post hasn't this time.

Astor
05-07-2010, 02:55 PM
Good result (if you're Conservative) where I live - a Conservative candidate for the first time in 18 years, and in the neighbouring constituency, Mike O'Brien, a Labour health minister lost to the Conservatives by 54 votes.

My biggest laugh today has been reading the failed Labour candidate (a thoroughly unpleasant woman, and I don't say that simply because she's Labour) blame her defeat on Lord Ashcroft and Rupert Murdoch. If she'd have spent as much time campaigning as she does moaning, she might have actually won.

Apparently, Cameron and Clegg are negotiating at the moment. A Lib-Con pact would end up with a majority at 363 seats, but it'd be weak and slow, and the real worry is that this is going to be used by some groups - the Liberal Democrats and Labour both being keen on the idea - to force through Proportional Representation, on the basis that while it can't produce decisive government, First Past the Post hasn't this time.

Strangely, i'm not averse to a Lib-Con deal, although we won't know what it would involve, or if it's even possible for a little while yet.

Anything that sees Brown and his government out on its arse is fine by me.

Darth InSidious
05-07-2010, 03:07 PM
I'm coming round to the idea of a Lib-Con pact; mainly because of the news that Evan Harris lost his seat, which is cheering. But also, I don't see a Lib-Lab pact going anywhere.

Astor
05-10-2010, 01:16 PM
Gordon Brown resigns as Labour leader. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8672859.stm)

Formal talks to begin between Liberal Democrats and Labour Party

****.

Totenkopf
05-10-2010, 01:43 PM
Well, wonder who talked him into that. IIRC he has a penchant for being quite stubborn. Good riddance to him, but I understand your sentiment, Astor.

Salzella
05-10-2010, 02:38 PM
Good man. Easing the process of transfer of power, standing aside for the sake of a progressive alliance despite having no reason other than convention to do so, and meaning that the tories don't get in power. GB <3

David Milliband for PM...

mur'phon
05-10-2010, 03:55 PM
Doesen't necessarly mean anything. Clegg is talking to Labor as much to make it clear to the Torries that his support isn't guaranteed. Brown steping down is probably as good for the Lib Dems as for Labor, simply by strenghtening Cleggs hand.

Astor
05-10-2010, 05:35 PM
Good man. Easing the process of transfer of power, standing aside for the sake of a progressive alliance despite having no reason other than convention to do so

He was a dead man walking as it was. All he did was jump rather than be pushed.

As for the 'progressive rainbow coalition' (I wonder which one is Bungle?), Labour, the Liberals and parties such as the SNP and Ulster Unionists working together is, as far as I can see, a recipe for disaster.

No doubt Labour have offered PR to the Liberals - which was a sticking point with talks between them and the Conservatives, but both parties had agreed that the economy had to take precedence over all other matters. If the Liberals enter into a coalition with Labour simply because of an offer of PR, it makes Nick Clegg look like a fool after his talk of ensuring Britain had a 'strong, stable government' as the proposed coalition looks far from stable with a mish-mash of smaller parties and a no doubt bloody Labour leadership contest.

If it goes ahead, we'll be back at the polls by October, hopefully with a clear winner (of any party).

and meaning that the tories don't get in power.

Holy **** Lord Tebbit's coming and he's got a ****ing shotgun! :eek:

Because really, we're all fox-hunting, money stealing Thatcherite toffs. :rolleyes:

David Milliband for PM...

Ugh.

SW01
05-10-2010, 06:30 PM
As for the 'progressive rainbow coalition' (I wonder which one is Bungle?)
He just left.

Labour, the Liberals and parties such as the SNP and Ulster Unionists working together is, as far as I can see, a recipe for disaster.

I did find it amusing to imagine the Democratic Unionist Party and the SDLP, Scots Nats and Plaid Cymru working together. And moreso to imagine the Westminster government being more of a patchwork than Stormont! :lol:

If only a few Ulster Unionists had taken seats - they were/are in a coalition with the Tories already. But the DUP have disappointed me by buying into the media frenzy over a passing remark about the size of the NI public sector.

No doubt Labour have offered PR to the Liberals - which was a sticking point with talks between them and the Conservatives

I thought the Tories had been more than fair in saying that they would put it to referendum. Labour had 13 years to reform the electoral system and didn't make a noise until it looked as if they were going to lose.

Because really, we're all fox-hunting, money stealing Thatcherite toffs. :rolleyes:
QFT. I've never been fox-hunting...

Ugh.
QFT again.

mur'phon
05-10-2010, 06:39 PM
I thought the Tories had been more than fair in saying that they would put it to referendum. Labour had 13 years to reform the electoral system and didn't make a noise until it looked as if they were going to lose.


They offered to have a comitee to have a look at it, which, especially since labor did the same, the Lib Dems didn't accept.

As for the importance of PR, given that the Lib Dems will have to piss ff a huge section of their voters to get to be the junior party in a government that's guaranteed to be hated, I'd say that they deserve to be given at least that much.

SW01
05-10-2010, 07:06 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8673807.stm

^I was going by that - referendum as the final offer. The Committee was the stance up until today, I believe.

Pavlos
05-11-2010, 07:03 AM
No doubt Labour have offered PR to the Liberals - which was a sticking point with talks between them and the Conservatives, but both parties had agreed that the economy had to take precedence over all other matters. If the Liberals enter into a coalition with Labour simply because of an offer of PR, it makes Nick Clegg look like a fool after his talk of ensuring Britain had a 'strong, stable government' as the proposed coalition looks far from stable with a mish-mash of smaller parties and a no doubt bloody Labour leadership contest.
To be fair to Mr. Clegg, he didn't really say that he was going to ensure that: he said that the party with the largest number of seats had the right to seek the Confidence of the Commons and try to form a government first. Nothing in there said he would join that first government. The Liberal Democrats are their own party, they are not something to slot into place with another. Should they choose to form a coalition with Labour, so be it. Should they choose to form one with the Tories, so be it. They may even decide to sit this one out, as they did in Scotland. So be it.

Now, it may be said that they have a public duty (if we may dust off this rather antiquated phrase after its neglect since Mrs. 'there's no such thing as society' Thatcher) to form a stable government in light of the economic crisis, and to do so give ground on their party values. But as a corollary the Conservatives must do everything that they reasonably can to romance the Liberal Democrats. And I don't think a referendum on AV (a system which is, in many ways, less proportional that FPTP) is really the best that they can do; not even a discussion of a mixed system as in Germany, with a chunk of politicians elected proportionally and the rest via FPTP.

If only a few Ulster Unionists had taken seats - they were/are in a coalition with the Tories already. But the DUP have disappointed me by buying into the media frenzy over a passing remark about the size of the NI public sector.
They've only threatened to cut thousands of people's jobs in a politically unstable part of the country; how wise of them.

On the talk of a referendum on electoral reform. I understand the desire for one, and do think it's wholly justified, but I'm a bit perplexed as to when politicians started wanting to have them on major changes. I think we should have one on Women's Suffrage, that was a pretty significant shift in the rules.

Salzella
05-11-2010, 01:54 PM
Holy **** Lord Tebbit's coming and he's got a ****ing shotgun! :eek:

Because really, we're all fox-hunting, money stealing Thatcherite toffs. :rolleyes:


QFT. I've never been fox-hunting...


Perhaps you're not, but your leaders certainly are. Several sources have said (i'll dig them out if you want) that this is the most Etonian government in a long time: cliqueish and over-privileged.

Astor
05-11-2010, 02:13 PM
Perhaps you're not, but your leaders certainly are. Several sources have said (i'll dig them out if you want) that this is the most Etonian government in a long time: cliqueish and over-privileged.

I accept what you're saying, but I don't really buy into the whole class thing.

As for cliques, they've got them all over the House - there are plenty of Labour politicians who went to private schools (Balls, Woodward, Hain, Darling, and a few others, even equality-mad Harman), and there are even more united by their membership of the TUC.

And with a reported 6 Liberal Democrat Cabinet posts, it might not be quite as Etonian as expected. :)

Salzella
05-11-2010, 02:36 PM
It's not so much class in a traditional 'downtrodden masses' sort of sense I'm talking about here, it's more of the problem with the very-very top classes, if you like. I can very readily accept that the whole class system is rather out-dated, but there does seem to be a problem with call-me-Dave, Osborne and Boris getting to the top of the political system despite having very limited reservoirs of political talent or intellectual ability. All three would be comprehensively out-thought by Brown for example, a very unlucky man in a lot of ways although obviously not perfect...

Incidentally, I'm not actually a Labour supporter - Greens for me. more Socialist than Labour, Internationalist (something i'm very keen on) and obviously very environmentally aware; another thing the Conservatives struggle with. their enironment minister looked pretty hapless in the environment debates.

And yes, re: the final point about the cabinet - good. If Vince Cable gets the position of Chancellor that would negate a lot of the damage that slime-ball smirking clown Osbourne would do. Indeed, as long as we get PR eventually - something I hope Clegg is not ready to compromise on even at this late stage - then i see a coalition as a lot less potentially damaging to the less well-off than a majority tory govt, which would not have been good, especially if you like having public services of a reasonable standard of quality...

Astor
05-11-2010, 03:08 PM
All three would be comprehensively out-thought by Brown for example, a very unlucky man in a lot of ways although obviously not perfect...

I'm not sure about the out-thinking bit (or maybe i'm not willing to cause an argument :p), but I do agree that Brown has been incredibly unlucky.
Lord Hattersly, writing in The Times today said that he was the most promising MP he'd ever met, and knew he would be Prime Minister one day - perhaps even in 1997, but gave way to Tony in 1995 when he was the more popular of the pair. Obviously, giving up what was an almost assured Premiership pretty obviously haunted him for near on a decade, and must have been even more soul destroying when he inherited a Government that was rapidly turning into a busted flush.

their enironment minister looked pretty hapless in the environment debates.

We have a Shadow Environment minister? :eek:

And yes, re: the final point about the cabinet - good. If Vince Cable gets the position of Chancellor that would negate a lot of the damage that slime-ball smirking clown Osbourne would do. Indeed, as long as we get PR eventually - something I hope Clegg is not ready to compromise on even at this late stage - then i see a coalition as a lot less potentially damaging to the less well-off than a majority tory govt, which would not have been good, especially if you like having public services of a reasonable standard of quality...

I can't see the Conservatives budging on Osbourne - but it's been reported that Cable will likely be Chief Secretary, so would have some say concerning cuts, etc. Someone suggested Ken Clarke as Chancellor, but I can't see that happening.

I just hope they choose someone competent for Defence. I know it's not a particularly important post anymore, but anyone is better is than Bob Ainsworth (who, coincidentally, is the MP for a rather run down and shabby part of Coventry I have to travel through to work). Someone suggested Lord Ashdown for the post, which might not be too bad considering his experience in both the Armed Forces and MI6.

Although I think all bets off for the Cabinet at the moment until the deal is finalised.

Totenkopf
05-11-2010, 05:46 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100511/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_britain_election

Astor
05-12-2010, 07:50 AM
So, the Cabinet is slowly forming - more information to be added to this post as it comes -

Prime Minister - David Cameron (CON)
Deputy Prime Minister - Nick Clegg (LD)

Chancellor: George Osborne (CON)
Home Secretary, Minister for Women & Equality: Theresa May (CON)
Foreign Secretary: William Hague (CON)
Justice Secretary & Lord Chancellor: Ken Clarke (CON)
Defence Secretary: Liam Fox (CON)
Health Secretary: Andrew Lansley (CON)
Education Secretary: Michael Gove (CON)
Secretary for Work & Pensions: Iain Duncan Smith (CON)
Business Secretary: Vince Cable (LD)
Chief Secretary to the Treasury: David Laws (LD)
Secretary for Climate Change & Energy: Chris Huhne (LD)
Secretary for the Environment: Caroline Spelman (CON)
Secretary for Communities & Local Government: Eric Pickles (CON)
Secretary for Culture, Olympics, Media & Sport: Jeremy Hunt (CON)
Transport Secretary Phillip Hammond (CON)
International Development Secretary: Andrew Mitchell (CON)
Welsh Secretary: Cheryl Gillan (CON)
Northern Ireland Secretary: Owen Paterson (CON)
Minister Without Portfolio: Baroness Warsi (CON)

Also attending the Cabinet:
Minister for the Cabinet Office: Francis Maude (CON)
Minister of State: Oliver Letwin (CON)
Leader of the Commons: Sir George Young (CON)
Leader of the Lords: Lord Strathclyde (CON)
Minister for Universites and Science: David Willetts (CON)

Attorney General: Dominic Grieve QC. (CON)




Sir Peter Ricketts (formerly Permanent Secretary to the Foreign Office) will be heading up the National Security Council, giving him direct supervision of the war in Afghanistan.

*There are rumours filtering through that Sir Menzies Campbell will be a candidate for speaker on the 18th - I think he'd make a great speaker, or at least a better one than John Bercow.

And of course, the great news is the dropping of ID cards, the Database and a whole host of other legislation in the 'Great Repeal Bill'.

More to follow...

Pavlos
05-12-2010, 10:24 AM
And of course, the great news is the dropping of ID cards, the Database and a whole host of other legislation in the 'Great Repeal Bill'.
Is this s Tory rebranding of the LibDem 'Freedom Bill'? Has a better name at any rate, even if it is a bit pompous. It makes it sound like we're abolishing slavery or deposing the Queen or something...

Astor
05-12-2010, 10:40 AM
Is this s Tory rebranding of the LibDem 'Freedom Bill'? Has a better name at any rate, even if it is a bit pompous. It makes it sound like we're abolishing slavery or deposing the Queen or something...

Liberal - Conservative Agreement (http://libdems.org.uk/latest_news_detail.aspx?title=Conservative_Liberal _Democrat_coalition_agreements&pPK=2697bcdc-7483-47a7-a517-7778979458ff)

From the Civil Liberties section -

The parties agree to implement a full programme of measures to reverse the substantial erosion of civil liberties under the Labour Government and roll back state intrusion.

This will include:

* A Freedom or Great Repeal Bill.

* The scrapping of ID card scheme, the National Identity register, the next generation of biometric passports and the Contact Point Database.

* Outlawing the finger-printing of children at school without parental permission.

* The extension of the scope of the Freedom of Information Act to provide greater transparency.

* Adopting the protections of the Scottish model for the DNA database.

* The protection of historic freedoms through the defence of trial by jury.

* The restoration of rights to non-violent protest.

* The review of libel laws to protect freedom of speech.

* Safeguards against the misuse of anti-terrorism legislation.

* Further regulation of CCTV.

* Ending of storage of internet and email records without good reason.

* A new mechanism to prevent the proliferation of unnecessary new criminal offences.

Salzella
05-12-2010, 02:27 PM
I still think we'd benefit from I.D. cards - it has done the continent no harm at all, streamlined travel amongst other things and is a great alternative to passports as a form of I.D. However i can see that it is a bit 1984, and the repealing of the other liberty-opposed bills is great.

re: the cabinet, it's looking pretty good. I'm glad the Lib Dems got the environment as like i said the Tories are very weak on that as they're continually balancing between looking wholesome to the public and protecting their big business interests and placating the more eccentric, Climate change denying end of their spectrum. Also, Vince in business is good, he's libertarian but not overly so, and is also a good economist which is obviously quite crucial...

Not sure at all about Liam Fox in defense though...

Astor
05-12-2010, 02:46 PM
re: the cabinet, it's looking pretty good. I'm glad the Lib Dems got the environment as like i said the Tories are very weak on that as they're continually balancing between looking wholesome to the public and protecting their big business interests and placating the more eccentric, Climate change denying end of their spectrum. Also, Vince in business is good, he's libertarian but not overly so, and is also a good economist which is obviously quite crucial...

Him and David Laws (who has a long history with The City, and lots of qualifications) are excellent appointments, even if Laws didn't get Education like he wanted.

Not sure at all about Liam Fox in defense though...

Neither am I, to be honest. He looked good in Opposition, but anyone would look good opposite Ainsworth.

I'm really quite optimistic about this. There are plenty of naysayers (to listen to Labour, you'd have thought the sky had fallen in), but I think we need to give it a few months to see how well this will work.