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VeniVidiVicous
06-30-2010, 01:22 PM
So i've been debating to myself whether to write this thread for a while and a recent post I read in a topic influenced me to express my opinions on TOR, so here goes:

Examine the reasons people dislike TOR. Most couldn't care less if it was a direct port of KotOR to the MMO genre. Just because it IS an MMO they hate it. so KotOR fans have already made up their minds that TOR is not their game regardless of if it works. Look at when it was announced. Before screenshots and anything else KotOR fans were thumbing their nose at it. Anything else just gave them more reasons to hate it.

i can assure you this was not my initial reaction.

After seeing the decieved trailer. I was thinking "OMG, they're going to continue Kotor through this game! This could be truely epic, this could actually be the first mmo that I can actually get into!"

You see I had just finished the first Mass Effect and loved it. It was an immersive experience that I really enjoyed but most importantly (to me) it was the first rpg I had played where I liked the combat system. You see i've always wanted a game with the character customisation of the kotor games without the normal rpg combat system.

So I was thinking something close to the mass effect combat system mixed with the SW:Kotor setting in an mmo might just sell me.

I presumed seeing as it was a mmo and a continuation of kotor that they wouldn't want anything too taxing on pc's in terms of graphics so I assumed they go with the look and style of the previous 2 games. (which I also happen to like)

Then it happened..

I saw a gameplay video. Not only did they not incorporate a new combat system for the mmo genre, they went a completely different direction for the visuals of the game.

The characters in this game look a lot like WoW characters to me. So anychance of me getting immersed into the game (and my potential character or characters) was gone. I always liked how the previous games looked and it genuinely surprised me that they mirrored WoW with the aesthetics here.


"Be a little more open" and quite frankly KotOR fans are WAY too demanding. They DEMAND Revan, They DEMAND Exile. They made so many demands, it was impossible to even come close to meeting their expectations. So KotOR fans are really the ones saying FU to BioWare for not meeting their impossible standards.

As far as Revan and Exile goes I knew this was going to be based around 300 years after TSL so I assumed they be dead and not too relevant to the player's experience in this game.
There are a few threads on canon/storylines within TOR and how they relate to the previous installments so I won't touch on it too much here.

I will say this though when I first heard about this I raced to my computer to find out more about this game but i've already found out enough about this game to know it won't be my cup of tea.

As a closing point, I think this game truely had the potential to break through a lot of the things that prevent certain gamers from playing mmo's. Unfortunatly this game will not be that genre-altering title I was hoping for. :(

If any of ye have different reasons for wanting to (or not wanting to) play the game i'd be intrested to hear it?

Miltiades
06-30-2010, 02:16 PM
I don't have any problems with either the combat system or the visuals. The combat system actually looks refreshing opposed to the combat in certain RPG's/MMO's I've seen or played. And maybe the game could've looked better in my opinion, I understand why they're going for this style and am not too bothered with it.

The key is to look at it as an MMO set in the Star Wars universe at its core. If either of the two don't appeal to you, you shouldn't play the game. Gameplay, of course, is going to be the next step in deciding if you like this game, but not much has been shown when it comes to gameplay to rate it at this point, I think.

The important thing to do is to separate the game from singleplayer RPG's BioWare produced, exactly because it is an MMO. And as much as the link between TOR and KotOR is being made, TOR is still very much a standalone game who only hints at the KotOR series.

I, for one, even if I'd still rather have a third KotOR game, am at this point still interested in playing the game. Because I've always wanted to play a Star Wars MMO (Galaxies being not appealing enough to me) and because it gives story an important place in the game. I may not like the way they're going with their copying of the Clone Wars, but it gives me the chance to be one character of a million characters who walk around the Star Wars galaxy, fighting those iconic elements. So if I have to wear Clone Trooper armor to do it, I think I will. :)

VeniVidiVicous
06-30-2010, 03:10 PM
I don't have any problems with either the combat system or the visuals. The combat system actually looks refreshing opposed to the combat in certain RPG's/MMO's I've seen or played. And maybe the game could've looked better in my opinion, I understand why they're going for this style and am not too bothered with it.

I'm sorry but the combat looks far to similar to other mmo games for me to consider it something different. The visual style they went for is VERY similar to WoW imo.

The key is to look at it as an MMO set in the Star Wars universe at its core. If either of the two don't appeal to you, you shouldn't play the game. Gameplay, of course, is going to be the next step in deciding if you like this game, but not much has been shown when it comes to gameplay to rate it at this point, I think.

An mmo set in the SW universe does really appeal to me. That's why i'm writing this.
Enough of the gameplay has been shown for me to know it's your standard mmo combat system.

The important thing to do is to separate the game from singleplayer RPG's BioWare produced, exactly because it is an MMO. And as much as the link between TOR and KotOR is being made, TOR is still very much a standalone game who only hints at the KotOR series.

I, for one, even if I'd still rather have a third KotOR game, am at this point still interested in playing the game. Because I've always wanted to play a Star Wars MMO (Galaxies being not appealing enough to me) and because it gives story an important place in the game. I may not like the way they're going with their copying of the Clone Wars, but it gives me the chance to be one character of a million characters who walk around the Star Wars galaxy, fighting those iconic elements. So if I have to wear Clone Trooper armor to do it, I think I will. :)

I agree that thus mmo having a heavier emphasis on story and dialog does appeal to me a great deal. But the fact it'll look like WoW/Clone Wars means that I wouldn't be able to take my character seriously.

SithLordDrew
06-30-2010, 05:10 PM
Blizzardís Art department for Warcraft I/II/III/WoW has been very distinct over the past 10 years. Over sized hands and feet, bright colors, and over sized weapons. Even the towns and villages are colored with a bright color palette. I have yet to see an MMO pull off the ultra realistic look. SOE tried with EQ2 but I think that game looked terrible. Solo player games like Mass Effect and Splinter Cell look awesome, but these games are focused on much smaller levels and are solo based so there are fewer objects to render.

IMO I think Bioware did very well to come up a look that is all their own. A good mix of realistic models and colors with a touch of anima. Plus, we got lots of boobs! If I had to compare the look to another MMO to TOR I would say it looks the most like City of Heroes.

Iím not sure what in game video you saw, but I would ask you watch this one (again). If you still donít like the direction the Bioware art team went after watching this video I guess there is no changing your mind. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbtWG_mApjA&feature=fvsr

~ Sith Lord Drew

Alexrd
06-30-2010, 05:23 PM
But the fact it'll look like WoW/Clone Wars means that I wouldn't be able to take my character seriously.

I don't understand how the cartoon look prevents you from taking your character seriously, but I think it's important to understand the reason behind their choice for the cartoony look.

VeniVidiVicous
06-30-2010, 05:44 PM
Blizzardís Art department for Warcraft I/II/III/WoW has been very distinct over the past 10 years. Over sized hands and feet, bright colors, and over sized weapons. Even the towns and villages are colored with a bright color palette. I have yet to see an MMO pull off the ultra realistic look. SOE tried with EQ2 but I think that game looked terrible. Solo player games like Mass Effect and Splinter Cell look awesome, but these games are focused on much smaller levels and are solo based so there are fewer objects to render.

True, it is much easier to make single player games look better.
However I think TOR's characters look more similar (in-game) to WoW than previous Kotor characters, which I think is a bad thing.

IMO I think Bioware did very well to come up a look that is all their own. A good mix of realistic models and colors with a touch of anima. Plus, we got lots of boobs! If I had to compare the look to another MMO to TOR I would say it looks the most like City of Heroes.

Well City of Heroes is a tongue-in-cheek super hero game and while that works for that type of game I don't see how it helps a heavily story driven SW game.

I will admit, i HATE anime. I just find that a lot of those things (Clone warriors or troopers or whatever it's called being a perfect example) are too cartoony for me to get into.

Iím not sure what in game video you saw, but I would ask you watch this one (again). If you still donít like the direction the Bioware art team went after watching this video I guess there is no changing your mind. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbtWG_mApjA&feature=fvsr

~ Sith Lord Drew

Watched it. I have seen it before.

On second watch I must say I still don't like the way it looks, the characters especially.

VeniVidiVicous
06-30-2010, 05:45 PM
I don't understand how the cartoon look prevents you from taking your character seriously, but I think it's important to understand the reason behind their choice for the cartoony look.

They wanted it to look like WoW?

adamqd
06-30-2010, 05:56 PM
Its called personal taste... I cant understand why the Clone wars got the green light to be even made, never mind being a Hit TV show in several countries, Its just down to what I think is Star Wars, and what I think is cool. It's an opinion. For example (It could well be my age and upbringing) But to me, any cartoon, whether it be carebears or Manga is for kids, I cant take it as cool, but some people would engage in a fistfight with me over it.

I think Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi: Redemption, is better than a New Hope, the Phantom menace and the Clone Wars... Other people would just say its crap EU, unrelated to G-canon. The only explanation is, is that its my preference.

If I find something crap or unlike Star Wars, I wont take it seriously, because I don't think its cool, very simple.

And regarding understanding the reasons for its appearance and game style, anyone with half a brain knows that Player base size and revenue is the number one factor in game development, so make it appeal to kids, casuals and adults, make it so you have to pay for content, Bioware rich.

What I want to know is why people get chastised for airing there views and called bitch's and haters, yet people who blindly except everything George releases as the word of God whether they secretly hate it or not, don't even get questioned... except by me lol.

Its not hating its wanting the best from a product you have investment in.

truJedi
06-30-2010, 06:16 PM
each to their own guys, everyone is different . I personally dont like the direction they have gone with for this game, so i oviously wont be playing it. But it eventually come down to what type of gamer you are , simple as that :)

VeniVidiVicous
06-30-2010, 06:22 PM
Its called personal taste... I cant understand why the Clone wars got the green light to be even made, never mind being a Hit TV show in several countries, Its just down to what I think is Star Wars, and what I think is cool. It's an opinion. For example (It could well be my age and upbringing) But to me, any cartoon, whether it be carebears or Manga is for kids, I cant take it as cool, but some people would engage in a fistfight with me over it.

I think Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi: Redemption, is better than a New Hope, the Phantom menace and the Clone Wars... Other people would just say its crap EU, unrelated to G-canon. The only explanation is, is that its my preference.

If I find something crap or unlike Star Wars, I wont take it seriously, because I don't think its cool, very simple.

And regarding understanding the reasons for its appearance and game style, anyone with half a brain knows that Player base size and revenue is the number one factor in game development, so make it appeal to kids, casuals and adults, make it so you have to pay for content, Bioware rich.

What I want to know is why people get chastised for airing there views and called bitch's and haters, yet people who blindly except everything George releases as the word of God whether they secretly hate it or not, don't even get questioned... except by me lol.

Its not hating its wanting the best from a product you have investment in.

I fully agree with you.

I do think that basing the visuals on the original games could still appeal to casual fans though, I think with a lot of SW stuff they underestimate young people.


each to their own guys, everyone is different . I personally dont like the direction they have gone with for this game, so i oviously wont be playing it. But it eventually come down to what type of gamer you are , simple as that :)

Wise words there.

Alexrd
06-30-2010, 08:01 PM
They wanted it to look like WoW?

Erm... No. Cartoon graphics don't get old as fast as realistic ones.

VeniVidiVicous
06-30-2010, 08:29 PM
Erm... No. Cartoon graphics don't get old as fast as realistic ones.

That's true.

My main point though is that with the cartoony graphics they're alienating me (someone who's already a fan of their series) from their mmo.

SithLordDrew
06-30-2010, 09:45 PM
I guess I'm just a big kid, I still like cartoons. :giggle1:

~Sith Lord Drew

VeniVidiVicous
06-30-2010, 10:40 PM
I guess I'm just a big kid, I still like cartoons. :giggle1:

~Sith Lord Drew

:lol:

I got nothing against cartoons, I just don't think it fits with TOR.

truJedi
06-30-2010, 11:16 PM
CARTOONS ROCK!!! :D ( but not with tor or any starwars game/movie) -->with the exception of clone wars lol

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 12:18 AM
CARTOONS ROCK!!! :D ( but not with tor or any starwars game/movie) -->with the exception of clone wars lol

Meh.. Animated SW cartoons just aren't for me.

Alexrd
07-01-2010, 04:04 AM
That's true.

My main point though is that with the cartoony graphics they're alienating me (someone who's already a fan of their series) from their mmo.

Fair enough. But the fact is they must sell the game (which is an MMO and not a SP game) to a much broader audience, otherwise it won't pay all the investment (and keep the game running for a long time).

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 04:53 AM
Fair enough. But the fact is they must sell the game (which is an MMO and not a SP game) to a much broader audience, otherwise it won't pay all the investment (and keep the game running for a long time).

Isn't it possible that it would stand out in the mmo market and appeal to that same broad audience without the cartoony visuals?

Alexrd
07-01-2010, 05:05 AM
Isn't it possible that it would stand out in the mmo market and appeal to that same broad audience without the cartoony visuals?

Wouldn't the graphics get old faster? Yes.

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 05:45 AM
Wouldn't the graphics get old faster? Yes.

You do know that SW:Galaxies (for example) update the graphics every once in a while.

True, if they wanted it to look realistic it would get old quickly but what if they made the characters look like the ones in Kotor 1 & 2.. That (imo) is an improvement compared to the look they are going for.

Alexrd
07-01-2010, 05:57 AM
True, if they wanted it to look realistic it would get old quickly but what if they made the characters look like the ones in Kotor 1 & 2.. That (imo) is an improvement compared to the look they are going for.

Ans isn't the KotOR look somewhat realistic?

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 06:19 AM
Ans isn't the KotOR look somewhat realistic?

It is. I'm not on making a more realistic look though, I'm on about using the EXACT same look the last Kotor game had.

I think it would look better, be just as easy to run and in a way it would be cool for the fans of the old series

Alexrd
07-01-2010, 06:25 AM
It is. I'm not on making a more realistic look though, I'm on about using the EXACT same look the last Kotor game had.

I think it would look better, be just as easy to run and in a way it would be cool for the fans of the old series

It would look better for how long? The cartoon look has a good reason to exist, and I understand it perfectly. And how can this game survive with just KotOR fans?

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 07:09 AM
It would look better for how long? The cartoon look has a good reason to exist, and I understand it perfectly. And how can this game survive with just KotOR fans?

We misunderstand each other slightly.

I mean that the original look would permanently look better to cartoon graphics. (imo)

I'm not saying the mmo would survive on just kotor fans i'm just saying if they stuck with the original look they'd probably get more kotor fans playing the game. (like me) :)

Kira_Tsukasa
07-01-2010, 08:20 AM
I won't be playing it because it is an MMO. Now, I don't have anything against MMOs, I have something against buying a game for $30 then having to pay for the game all over again every month. That's why I will NEVER in my life play WoW. If they decide to have it free every month, I will definitely pick it up. If it's a low cost, like Runescape, then I'll consider it. I have bills to pay so I just can't afford to buy a game over and over again every month.

Alexrd
07-01-2010, 09:27 AM
I'm not saying the mmo would survive on just kotor fans i'm just saying if they stuck with the original look they'd probably get more kotor fans playing the game. (like me) :)

But they can't think only on KotOR fans. They must do everything they can to ensure the game will last, and cartoon graphics is one way to accomplish that.

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 09:50 AM
But they can't think only on KotOR fans. They must do everything they can to ensure the game will last, and cartoon graphics is one way to accomplish that.

I honestly don't see how cartoon graphic accomplishes that.

Where's this written rule that mmos have to have cartoon graphics to get people into their product?
If you're refering to casual gamers or WoW players, i'll say this:

I think the more this game has in common with WoW the less intresting it'll be to WoW players. Why you might ask? Well if it's similar in almost everyway why play TOR over WoW?
As for casual gamers something else will draw their attention away from this game around 3-12 months after it's release.

Alexrd
07-01-2010, 09:53 AM
I honestly don't see how cartoon graphic accomplishes that.

I've written this before. Here:

Cartoon graphics don't get old as fast as realistic ones.

Kira_Tsukasa
07-01-2010, 10:14 AM
What do you define as "cartoon graphics"?

To me, "cartoon graphics" is The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker, which was a surprising success. So if they can pull of "cartoon graphics" to make a good game, why not do so?

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 10:27 AM
I've written this before. Here:

We're going over the same stuff here..

When you pointed out that they age better I responded that what you say is true but I don't think it suits the theme and detracts from the game itself.

What do you define as "cartoon graphics"?

To me, "cartoon graphics" is The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker, which was a surprising success. So if they can pull of "cartoon graphics" to make a good game, why not do so?

I think there's some kind of misconception here that cartoony graphics are a key element to a mmo game being succsesful.

Basically I think a game they released 7 years ago had visuals that suited this type of game very well.
I think they're shooting themselves in the foot trying to make it look like WoW.

Alexrd
07-01-2010, 10:48 AM
When you pointed out that they age better I responded that what you say is true but I don't think it suits the theme and detracts from the game itself.

But some don't think that. And just because they've bet on a cartoon look, doesn't mean they are trying to copy WoW.

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 11:19 AM
just because they've bet on a cartoon look, doesn't mean they are trying to copy WoW.

I'm sorry man but i'm going to have to disagree with you here.

Bioware can lie to themselves (or the consumer) if they want and call it "Stylised Realism" but it's nothing more than mimicing WoW.

Alexrd
07-01-2010, 11:27 AM
What? Just because of the stylised look? Please... :rolleyes:

SithLordDrew
07-01-2010, 11:49 AM
I won't be playing it because it is an MMO. Now, I don't have anything against MMOs, I have something against buying a game for $30 then having to pay for the game all over again every month. That's why I will NEVER in my life play WoW. If they decide to have it free every month, I will definitely pick it up. If it's a low cost, like Runescape, then I'll consider it. I have bills to pay so I just can't afford to buy a game over and over again every month.

People use to say the same thing about cable TV. Today I spend $90 a month for cable TV. I spend $12 for my WoW account. I easily spend over twice as much time playing WoW then I do watching TV. To me, even with the month fee, MMOs are a much better deal. They are very cheap entertainment.

~Sith Lord Drew

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 12:09 PM
What? Just because of the stylised look? Please... :rolleyes:

Don't roll your eyes at me man! :lol:

You know I have a point here. It's the same trap a lot of mmos fall into.

A company takes a franchise, makes an mmo, base the combat/graphics on WoW and then are amazed when their mmo flops.

Coincidence?? :raise:

Alexrd
07-01-2010, 12:31 PM
Don't roll your eyes at me man! :lol:

You know I have a point here. It's the same trap a lot of mmos fall into.

A company takes a franchise, makes an mmo, base the combat/graphics on WoW and then are amazed when their mmo flops.

Coincidence?? :raise:

Do you have a source that says the combat and graphics are based on WoW? There were many games before WoW with stylised graphics. As for the combat, I don't see where it is related to WoW. So yes, I roll my eyes at what you said.

adamqd
07-01-2010, 12:55 PM
Cartoon Graphics don't age better, they were just low quality to begin with lol

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 01:12 PM
Cartoon Graphics don't age better, they were just low quality to begin with lol

Exactly what i've been trying to explain.

Do you have a source that says the combat and graphics are based on WoW?

Well obviously Bioware didn't say "We just wanted to copy WoW's system", watch any of those gameplay videos it's WoW with lightsabers.

There were many games before WoW with stylised graphics.

So?

As for the combat, I don't see where it is related to WoW. So yes, I roll my eyes at what you said.

Watch a gameplay video and tell me in all honesty you'd think of World of Warcraft when looking at the combat.

Alexrd
07-01-2010, 01:21 PM
Exactly what i've been trying to explain.

No need. Everyone knows that. Low system requirements is another factor that helps bringing more people to the game.

Well obviously Bioware didn't say "We just wanted to copy WoW's system", watch any of those gameplay videos it's WoW with lightsabers.

I don't think it is.

So?

So, it's not based on WoW. It's an option. Stylised or realistic graphics. They chose stylised, deal with it. There are many games with stylised graphics, and that doesn't make it a copy of WoW.

Watch a gameplay video and tell me in all honesty you'd think of World of Warcraft when looking at the combat.

In all honesty, It's not WoW combat. If you think it is, well, whatever...

TriggerGod
07-01-2010, 01:29 PM
What do you define as "cartoon graphics"?

Personally, for me, its the 'stylized realism'. The first non-TOR game that comes to mind is Team Fortress 2. And, well the stylizing makes sense with the game becauses its meant to be a funny, not serious game. But with TOR, from what we've seen, the only reason I've seen for their stylizing is that it lasts longer, which I tend to agree with. But I also see it as a way to save space, make textures that aren't as complex as, say, Mass Effect or Crysis.

Alexrd
07-01-2010, 01:35 PM
Personally, for me, its the 'stylized realism'. The first non-TOR game that comes to mind is Team Fortress 2. And, well the stylizing makes sense with the game becauses its meant to be a funny, not serious game. But with TOR, from what we've seen, the only reason I've seen for their stylizing is that it lasts longer, which I tend to agree with. But I also see it as a way to save space, make textures that aren't as complex as, say, Mass Effect or Crysis.

Exactly.

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 01:44 PM
No need. Everyone knows that. Low system requirements is another factor that helps bringing more people to the game.

Yes, I agree lower system requirements are a bonus. We seem to be disagreeing on what they could have done to maintain those same requirements.

I don't think it is.

Fair enough

So, it's not based on WoW. It's an option. Stylised or realistic graphics. They chose stylised, deal with it. There are many games with stylised graphics, and that doesn't make it a copy of WoW.

I'll just have to deal with it then... :eek:

In all honesty, It's not WoW combat. If you think it is, well, whatever...

I stand by my opinion. I will say though, even though we seem to be disagreeing a lot I am enjoying actually getting to talk about this. :)

Personally, for me, its the 'stylized realism'. The first non-TOR game that comes to mind is Team Fortress 2. And, well the stylizing makes sense with the game becauses its meant to be a funny, not serious game.

When you have a dialog heavy game that you are supposed to take a bit seriously can you see how that can put people off?

Alexrd
07-01-2010, 01:57 PM
I'll just have to deal with it then... :eek:

Why the shock?

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 02:05 PM
Why the shock?

It isn't real shock, i'm just trying to be funny.:thmbup1:

SithLordDrew
07-01-2010, 02:06 PM
When you have a dialog heavy game that you are supposed to take a bit seriously can you see how that can put people off?

Some of the best stories I have ever seen told are cartoons. They don't put me off. But that's just me. Just to name a few:

Monsters Inc.
Batman Mask of the Phantasm
Appleseed ExMachina
How to Train your Dragon
Incredibles


~ Sith Lord Drew

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 02:13 PM
Some of the best stories I have ever seen told are cartoons. They don't put me off. But that's just me. Just to name a few:

Monsters Inc.
Batman Mask of the Phantasm
Appleseed ExMachina
How to Train your Dragon
Incredibles


~ Sith Lord Drew

Fair enough but do you see my point?

A good story is a good story, In a video game though the visuals of the game help set an atmosphere. To have as much dialog as they're going to have and drive the dialog it just seems like a big contrast to have cartoon characters debating the semantics of how the force should be used (for example) seems to kill the immersion a bit.

Tommycat
07-01-2010, 02:22 PM
You should have accredited the original quotes to me BTW.

I did qualify my statements with "most" If that's not you, then it's not you.

Stylized graphics, Well I tend to really like the very artistic design of the landscapes and environment. There are a few other good reasons for it. Lower graphics requirements. Could you see a game appealing to the masses that only a few have rigs capable of running?

Of course you bring up KotOR's graphics. They had like 30 total faces... Mass Effect, had very customizable faces, but again, the graphics requirement are double that of WoW. Not saying the graphics look like WoW, actually those graphics were boring. BUT I could see the reason for it.

I look at the in game footage, and quite frankly it looks better than KotOR, but less than ME.

And quite frankly I played a few games that used "Cell Shaded" and had very good stories as well. Then there's all the Graphic Novels out there that have artistic styling. Then there's movies like Sin City that also use stylized realism.

SithLordDrew
07-01-2010, 02:24 PM
I have to disagree. Just because a movie is shot using live action does not make it more serious over a cartoon. IMO you can get the same attachment to a character when they love, cry, or are in pain no matter if they are an actor, or depicted as a cartoon.

~Sith Lord Drew

Alexrd
07-01-2010, 02:33 PM
It isn't real shock, i'm just trying to be funny.:thmbup1:

Oh. Sorry then. ;)

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 02:37 PM
You should have accredited the original quotes to me BTW.

I was afraid you'd freak out at me if I used your name seeing as I used them to start a new thread as opposed to replying within that thread.

Stylized graphics, Well I tend to really like the very artistic design of the landscapes and environment. There are a few other good reasons for it. Lower graphics requirements. Could you see a game appealing to the masses that only a few have rigs capable of running?

Don't get me wrong, I think the scenery looks cool enough. I just really hate how the characters look.
It's almost like placing Clone Wars Yoda into one of the films if you know what I mean?



I have to disagree. Just because a movie is shot using live action does not make it more serious over a cartoon. IMO you can get the same attachment to a character when they love, cry, or are in pain no matter if they are an actor, or depicted as a cartoon.

~Sith Lord Drew

I suppose that's where we differ a bit.
It's not so much that the characters are cartoonish, it's that it's cartoonish characters in a serious enough SW game. I just can't see me taking my character seriously.

My general experience is: Star Wars + Kid's Animation/Manga = :migraine:

They just don't mix well for me.

Oh. Sorry then. ;)

No problem. :lol:

Alexrd
07-01-2010, 02:45 PM
I just can't see me taking my character seriously.

My general experience is: Star Wars + Kid's Animation/Manga = :migraine:

They just don't mix well for me.

What are we supposed to do, then? :)

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 02:48 PM
What are we supposed to do, then? :)

Sympathise with me and tell me you know how I feel! :lol:

Seriously thiugh, I am curious if i'm the only one who thinks these 2 things don't mix?

Wouldn't this game be much better if it didn't look like a kids cartoon?

Alexrd
07-01-2010, 02:52 PM
Wouldn't this game be much better if it didn't look like a kids cartoon?

I don't understand the "kids cartoon" part.

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 03:05 PM
I don't understand the "kids cartoon" part.

Ok, this is gameplay screenshot from the upcoming mmo.

http://www.gx.com.sg/Admin/Storage/Data/UploadedPicture/Blog/star-wars-the-old-republic-screenshot-jedi-force-choke.jpg

And this is from the last kotor which came out 6 years ago.

http://ui05.gamespot.com/1316/kotor2004_2.jpg

Out of these 2 images which do you think looks better suited to a SW mmo?

Tommycat
07-01-2010, 03:12 PM
Neither. The screenshot you posted was one of the EARLY screenshots. You can tell by the "Pringles Saber"

Try this one
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.massively.com/media/2009/12/ss_20091211_sithinquisitor01_full.jpg

or this one
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.massively.com/media/2008/11/darkandlight-sms-1108.jpg

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 03:30 PM
I still think this:

http://ui05.gamespot.com/1316/kotor2004_2.jpg

Looks better than..

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.massively.com/media/2008/11/darkandlight-sms-1108.jpg

Tommycat
07-01-2010, 03:36 PM
So you prefer lightsabers that didn't connect, repeated flat landscapes, narrowly defined walking areas, very small worlds, expressionless faces, and a total of 30 faces for the entire game, to TOR? Then there's not much point in discussion is there. You won't be swayed.

VeniVidiVicous
07-01-2010, 03:55 PM
So you prefer lightsabers that didn't connect, repeated flat landscapes, narrowly defined walking areas, very small worlds, expressionless faces, and a total of 30 faces for the entire game, to TOR? Then there's not much point in discussion is there. You won't be swayed.

As i've stated many times now, it's the cartoony characters that i'm not into.

All of the things you just mentioned are not relevant to the point I was trying to make.

Alexrd
07-01-2010, 04:14 PM
So, you don't like the cartoon look and you think cartoons are for kids. We can't do anything.

truJedi
07-01-2010, 06:15 PM
Its ok Veni ...." You are not alone, I am here with you " haha i know exactly what you mean buddy - And so does ALEXRD lol . It looks SILLY the way they have created it all, unless your playing a game thats based on a cartoon show / movie, e.g Naruto or Dragon Ball Z.

I though one of the main points of the game was to try and make it look as realistic as possible unless thats the look they purposly are going for. I will say the movies look so amazing though ) :) but , theres nothing we can do to change it.

And btw The Incredibles movie was awwssoommee, im still waiting for the next one :)

Tommycat
07-01-2010, 07:14 PM
As i've stated many times now, it's the cartoony characters that i'm not into.

All of the things you just mentioned are not relevant to the point I was trying to make.

The "cartoony" characters in my opinion look better than the characters in KotOR(IMHO). But if you want a more realistic look you might look at SWG. And you did ask which looked better suited to an SW MMO. And quite frankly I think the realistic combat helps immersion better than early production cartoon looks detract from it. They have gotten a bit better.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.massively.com/media/2009/11/ss_20091113_imperialagent02_full.jpg

LordJhredmo
07-01-2010, 08:39 PM
So you prefer lightsabers that didn't connect, repeated flat landscapes, narrowly defined walking areas, very small worlds, expressionless faces, and a total of 30 faces for the entire game, to TOR? Then there's not much point in discussion is there. You won't be swayed.

This.

KotOR (one and two) will not hold a graphical candle to SW:TOR. I'm with Tommycat and Alexrd here. SW:TOR will be the first game I'll be paying a monthly sub for due to what I've seen while I've been following the game (the guild I'm in has also contributed to my hype).

I loved of Veni chose the most earliest screenshot as an example of the graphics of SW:TOR (that have been overhauled on many occasions and most likely will several more times before we reach launch). You're pretty dead-set, Veni, so I don't quite see the point of your debating the game at all. :confused:

WoW may be considering moving to a F2P style based on what they're seeing with Turbine's and other MMOs' numbers, so that may not be completely out of the question for SW:TOR. :¨:

JediAthos
07-02-2010, 09:33 AM
I've played most of the current major MMO's out there with the exception of Everquest. Out of all of them it is well known that the most successful is WoW, and the reason for that is that clearly Blizzard has done a good number of things right.

For me, the graphics are not a problem, but then I am a "veteran" MMO player and as such probably used to it. At the same time I'm sure Bioware and LucasArts considered many different things before they chose a presentation style including what they thought would work, and the success or lack thereof of their predecessors in the MMO genre. If you don't like it ya don't like and there's little I can do I'm sure to persuade you otherwise.

I could say the same thing regarding the combat system. Bioware and LA had to look at something they thought would work. WoW was not the first game to use the combat system it uses nor will it be the last. What I think will make TOR fun are the unique combat abilities available in the Star Wars universe including lightsaber combat, the bounty hunter jetpack, the Force etc...At the same time the same could be said for WoW as well but several of the abilities in WoW are very similar to D&D and other rpgs...

As for the subscription...well it is a necessary evil. Software sales alone are not enough to maintain servers, pay support staff, pay developers and whatnot especially over an extended period of time. Even Free to play games such as DDO have a subscription system available and microtransactions. The expenses of maintaining and MMO are massive and while paying is unattractive to some there are many that fail to understand why they subscription system is there. (not saying its anyone here, but I've run across plenty.)

TheRogueForums
07-02-2010, 04:55 PM
As of right now, the only thing that will prevent me from playing the game past the first month will be how much money I have to pay to play it. As a rule, I do not play games with monthly subscriptions. I've already bought the game, why should I have to pay more, just to play it?

Everything about TOR, so far, has enthralled me, every step of the way. I will say one thing I do not like, though- the HUD we've seen so far in the gameplay videos. However, that can most likely be altered through Textmod or something like that, so it's not *that* huge of an issue.

The-Seraphim
07-02-2010, 07:49 PM
As of right now, the only thing that will prevent me from playing the game past the first month will be how much money I have to pay to play it. As a rule, I do not play games with monthly subscriptions. I've already bought the game, why should I have to pay more, just to play it?

So the company can keep the servers up and pay their employees to make updates and expansions maybe?

JediAthos
07-02-2010, 08:31 PM
So the company can keep the servers up and pay their employees to make updates and expansions maybe?

QFT...as I stated previously maintenance over time of an MMO including hardware upgrades, software, development staff, admins, account management customer service etc...costs money that cannot be made merely off software alone particularly if the game continues to exist for years after its initial release (a la WoW). That money is certainly not pure profit.

Tommycat
07-03-2010, 12:24 PM
Not to mention many games with monthly fees ALSO add FREE* content. You get MORE content than you would from a simple single player game. It may be as simple as events, and equipment, or as in the case of SWG completely NEW content at no additional charge.

Imagine how much you would have to pay if BioWare released TOR as 8 single player games. In order to get the whole game with 8 class stories you would have to pay $480. For HALF that you have a year of play(assuming $60 for the game, and $15/month), the whole game, multi-player, and far more content than they could package into a multi-DVD pack. Even as little content as SWG has, it's more content than any SP game I played. And WoW has TONS more(I just don't like swords and boards).

Imagine if KotORII could have had that kind of freedom to add content. We wouldn't have had the crappy ending that left you going "um... is that it?" By their very nature an MMO has to keep you WANTING to play. So continuing to add content becomes necessary.

*free meaning without a second purchase, as the monthly fee covers that.

VeniVidiVicous
07-05-2010, 02:22 AM
Its ok Veni ...." You are not alone, I am here with you " haha i know exactly what you mean buddy - And so does ALEXRD lol . It looks SILLY the way they have created it all, unless your playing a game thats based on a cartoon show / movie, e.g Naruto or Dragon Ball Z.

Thanks for being here for me. :lol:
Your Dragon Ball Z anology perfectly explains where i'm coming from.

I though one of the main points of the game was to try and make it look as realistic as possible unless thats the look they purposly are going for. I will say the movies look so amazing though ) :) but , theres nothing we can do to change it.

I agree with you on the two trailers, I think they look cool. I'm just not as blown away by how the actual game looks.


KotOR (one and two) will not hold a graphical candle to SW:TOR. I'm with Tommycat and Alexrd here. SW:TOR will be the first game I'll be paying a monthly sub for due to what I've seen while I've been following the game (the guild I'm in has also contributed to my hype).

TSl came out 6 years ago, of course this game that's coming out late next year should be graphically better. I was argueing that the style is worse.

I loved of Veni chose the most earliest screenshot as an example of the graphics of SW:TOR (that have been overhauled on many occasions and most likely will several more times before we reach launch). You're pretty dead-set, Veni, so I don't quite see the point of your debating the game at all. :confused:

Honestly, I googled "tor jedi gameplay footage" and "TSL jedi gameplay footage" and those were the first few images that I saw.
I'm debating because i think that this game could be unbelieveably good but it looks like Bioware are missing a good oppourtunity here.

WoW may be considering moving to a F2P style based on what they're seeing with Turbine's and other MMOs' numbers, so that may not be completely out of the question for SW:TOR. :¨:

I doubt Bioware will make it F2P. If Blizzard are clever they'll do this close to the release date of TOR.

The "cartoony" characters in my opinion look better than the characters in KotOR(IMHO). But if you want a more realistic look you might look at SWG. And you did ask which looked better suited to an SW MMO. And quite frankly I think the realistic combat helps immersion better than early production cartoon looks detract from it. They have gotten a bit better.

I agree with you on the combat helping immersion. I will say this though, don't you think it's odd that the older SW mmo will have a more realistic look?

So, you don't like the cartoon look and you think cartoons are for kids. We can't do anything.

We? You work for Bioware?? :raise:
I'm just stating my opinions man. :)


Imagine if KotORII could have had that kind of freedom to add content. We wouldn't have had the crappy ending that left you going "um... is that it?" By their very nature an MMO has to keep you WANTING to play. So continuing to add content becomes necessary.

You do know that Lucas Arts forced Obsidian to rush the release of TSL yeah?

Prime
07-05-2010, 09:15 AM
You do know that Lucas Arts forced Obsidian to rush the release of TSL yeah?That's kind of a half truth. Obsidian also planned poorly for the time they had, which they admitted.

Feagildin
07-05-2010, 10:02 AM
I like the new look of the Old Republic era. Minus the clone armor for Republic troops. Other than that, I think this game is going to be amazing, graphics included. I will be playing, even if I didn't like the graphics as much as previous games. Honestly, seeing the post with a TSL pic and a TOR pic next to each other, I am even more excited and seriously can't wait for this game to be released!

VeniVidiVicous
07-05-2010, 10:23 AM
Obsidian also planned poorly for the time they had, which they admitted.

I didn't know that, thanks for the info.


I like the new look of the Old Republic era. Minus the clone armor for Republic troops. Other than that, I think this game is going to be amazing, graphics included. I will be playing, even if I didn't like the graphics as much as previous games. Honestly, seeing the post with a TSL pic and a TOR pic next to each other, I am even more excited and seriously can't wait for this game to be released!

In a lot of ways I think they're doing the right thing. It just dosen't look different enough from the other mmo's for me to be intrested.

Ztalker
07-06-2010, 08:45 AM
In a lot of ways I think they're doing the right thing. It just dosen't look different enough from the other mmo's for me to be intrested.

Well, it's difficult to do something different I guess. That goes for more genres.

I once named Guild Wars that did stuff differently, but even they had a static fight system, skills leveling, armor crafting and the standard stuff.

Maybe it's not the 'core' that's different, but merely the stuff Bioware is doing with that core gameplay. Peronalised transportation, fully voiced over game, cover system, fast-paced action (I was VERY pleased with the last demo video. It showed the healer character was able to do some Melee work while healing, the smuggler was too. WoW is VERY static when it comes to do this. As a caster you stand and spam 1-8 on your keybord).

The style, I still don't know. Too much prequel-looking for me. But I felt that way about TSL as well, with the modern robes and such. Maybe it'll come in time.

VeniVidiVicous
07-06-2010, 04:50 PM
Well, it's difficult to do something different I guess. That goes for more genres.

I once named Guild Wars that did stuff differently, but even they had a static fight system, skills leveling, armor crafting and the standard stuff.

I only recently discovered the system for pre-cu SWG of building your character. It is quite different to other mmo's and was quite impressed by it.
There are ways to do things differently but a lot of companies don't want to risk too much with their releases I suppose.

Maybe it's not the 'core' that's different, but merely the stuff Bioware is doing with that core gameplay. Peronalised transportation, fully voiced over game, cover system, fast-paced action (I was VERY pleased with the last demo video. It showed the healer character was able to do some Melee work while healing, the smuggler was too. WoW is VERY static when it comes to do this. As a caster you stand and spam 1-8 on your keybord).

I agree that WoW is an incredibly unintuitive combat experience, hopefully the more Bioware realise this the more they'll try to make their combat that much better. As it stands right now.. it's still kind of lacking imo.

The style, I still don't know. Too much prequel-looking for me. But I felt that way about TSL as well, with the modern robes and such. Maybe it'll come in time.

Well the robe thing in TSL was good i thought, I never liked the jedi/sith clothing in kotor 1, it just looked a bit of a mess.

I hope the more they expand the game the more intuitive the combat gets and more based on realism the character graphics get.

jonathan7
07-19-2010, 12:35 PM
On topic, I was not, and still am not happy that SW:TOR is a MMO, I'm a single player gamer by nature. However I don't see the point on judging the game now, if once it is release there are free 7 day trials and what not, I really don't see the point in having an attitude which is "I'm not going to play that" without having at least played a free demo. I for one despite by sceptical will but this scepticism asside and give any free demo's a chance. I don't like MMO's but if anything was going to get me to play one it would be Star Wars...

j7's humble 2 cents.

dswtor
07-28-2010, 02:16 PM
honestly im not expecting this game to be like any of the KOTORs when blizzard made world of warcraft was it similar to warcraft? no. but this dosnt mean its going to be a bad game.

truJedi
07-28-2010, 07:17 PM
im not going to play it because its an MMO , simple. doesnt matter if there is a 7 day
free trial .....meh . :)

swphreak
07-28-2010, 07:59 PM
Yeah, I don't think I'll be playing TOR. Just another MMO, but Star Wars.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it'll be a good MMO, I'm just not interested in playing an MMO.

MMO.

Ztalker
08-27-2010, 01:57 PM
The character designs look like something out of a low budget saturday morning cartoon. SWTOR offers nothing innovative to the genre despite their insistent behavior over how unique the story unfolds. While I am not a huge fan of the Force Unleashed, I would much rather see a Star Wars MMO similar in design and gameplay. Dark, gritty, over the top and set during a timeline most of us grew up loving.

Imo, The Force Unleashed is a collection of forced clichés in a canon-raping story. It's a good game, don't get me wrong. But it has nothing the old trilogy has. I don't think it gets much love from the first-hour fans. I mean....cloning, Vader, Yoda, reverse-grip lightsaber...it's an explosion of nerdgasm.
Swtor is trying to create a setting based on the movies and is much more subtle in doing so. It's using the movies as inspiration, not using everything IN the movies.

It is over-the-top epic though, have to give you that. But we haven't seen the lv 60 powers from ToR either...

Miltiades
08-27-2010, 02:39 PM
I, personally, am done with stories set in the timeline most of us grew up loving. That whole era has been milked out, whether it's in games, novels, comics or tv series, and none of it ever came close to the quality of the original trilogy.

I'm glad some people are steering away from this era, though not everyone is using that freedom to its full capacity. SWTOR is more than 3,000 years before the movies, but it still tries to connect as much as possible to the movies and in my opinion, actually not in a subtle way. Tie Fighters, Clone Troopers, Boba Fett, Moffs, Hoth, these are some of the results of the movies "inspiring" SWTOR.

I don't agree on SWTOR being better had they adapted a more action-y gameplay à la The Force Unleashed. I have only played a bit of TFU, but there's hardly much depth in its gameplay, something that I think is needed for games in the MMO genre. And I'm not pro-over the top gameplay, myself. Agreed, it's disappointing that SWTOR isn't trying to innovate when it comes to MMO gameplay (and keeps hiding behind the "story pillar" as if that was the one thing that was missing from MMO's) and it's precisely that aspect that will make or break the game, no matter how much effort they put into their storytelling. But I still prefer traditional MMO gameplay over TFU-based gameplay.

JediAthos
08-28-2010, 09:00 AM
I don't think that Bioware has to innovate anything in order to make this game a success. Why would they go out on a limb and try and design something completely new when they don't have to? All they have to do is do it in an outstanding fashion and they will draw subscribers. Blizzard didn't innovate a blasted thing when they brought out WoW, they simply did what everyone else was doing but they did it better, but then I'm an avid MMO player and I saw the difference between WoW and its predecessors.

For those concerned there's too much movie influence...what did you expect? I mean really, what did you honestly think they were going to do? This game, like any other product, has targeted demographics. Some of that is MMO players, some of that is OT fans, some of that is people who love the prequels(god help me there are some out there), some of that is KOTOR fans, etc...They have to use elements that Star Wars fans are familiar with but at the same time elements that someone who has never picked up a Star Wars game, book, or movie(god help me there are some of those too) can relate to.

I don't really think Bioware is "hiding" behind anything. They have been straight forward that they want to bring their kind of story telling to the Star Wars universe and the MMO genre. Say what you wish about Bioware's stories following "patterns" or whatever, but imho they still tell compelling stories in their games and that is evident by their game sales and critical success. I will definitely be playing TOR at some point even though there are things I dislike(the space combat for starters)I'm willing to give them a chance.

Miltiades
08-28-2010, 03:06 PM
I get that they need to attract as many people as possible. But as far as I know, the same was true for KotOR. And KotOR, while having very recognizable elements from Star Wars in it, was far more subtle than TOR seems to be. Besides, attracting Star Wars fans, whether they played KotOR or not, is as easy as showing lightsabers and having the pew pew pew sound. Combine that with BioWare's reputation, I'm sure they've got a lot of Star Wars fans in the bag, so making the game more unique, in my opinion, wouldn't have been a risk.

Convincing the Star Wars fans never was the main obstacle, I think, rather convincing the MMO fans is. At a time where developers start to experiment with the MMO genre and games like Guild Wars 2 crop up, it's hard to defend the traditional road BioWare is taking. The question is: will the Star Wars brand and the storyline(s) be enough to warrant the MMO players' backing?

JediAthos
08-28-2010, 04:08 PM
A solid point about KOTOR Miltiades and I think they Jedi thing is probably what drew people to KOTOR and will indeed by the thing that draws many SW fans to TOR.

As far as MMO players go..I think the biggest thing they have to overcome is Star Wars Galaxies and the way Sony $%*#@$ that up. Hopefully they will realize that Bioware is NOT SOE.

adamqd
08-29-2010, 03:44 AM
As far as MMO players go..I think the biggest thing they have to overcome is Star Wars Galaxies and the way Sony $%*#@$ that up. Hopefully they will realize that Bioware is NOT SOE.

^^ This ^^

Ztalker
08-31-2010, 03:33 PM
@ Miltiades:
It's not as subtle as I had hoped no. The fighters and stuff just resemble the OT stuff a little too much. Kotor distanced itself a bit more.
If you look at the Tales of the Jedi comics though, that's a giant leap away.

In some way, we all want a naughty astromech droid, crew ship, bitchy princess, overpowered hairy alien and lightsaber and/or blaster....

dswtor
08-31-2010, 04:50 PM
im liken where the games going with this space combat...

Prime
09-01-2010, 10:56 AM
Why?

Ztalker
09-01-2010, 11:13 AM
Why?

C-mon Prime. Everyone likes 90's on-rails shooters...wait. No. No-one does. Bah.

Tommycat
09-01-2010, 10:57 PM
Looks like I'll be avoiding the space content... I'll wait until there's something in it that actually gives a reason it's online instead of what could be a downloadable demo. It's that kind of game that's fun for a bit, but after a while after repeating it got old. Like the Star Wars arcade game. I used to play that before movies... I certainly wouldn't have played it for much longer than wasting time before the movie starts. After beating it one time, it just feels like boring repetition.

Lord Foley
11-04-2010, 02:19 PM
The rail-shooting in TOR cannot be worse than the space combat in KotOR. What a cheap pain in the ass that always was. Not interesting, not hard, not fun. TOR space combat reminds me a lot of that, except that it looks aesthetically pleasing. I'll take it for what it is.

Nedak
11-05-2010, 07:35 PM
Just watched this video:
http://swtor.com/media/trailers/warzones

After seeing that I probably won't be playing the game too much.

RogueJedi86
06-30-2011, 06:36 PM
Has the stuff on flashpoints and operations helped people's opinions? We've finally been seeing the MMO part of MMORPG for TOR.

Pho3nix
06-30-2011, 07:11 PM
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk281/duhflushtech/i-like-where-this-thread-is-going.jpg

Scars Unseen
08-17-2011, 05:04 AM
Imo, The Force Unleashed is a collection of forced clichés in a canon-raping story. It's a good game, don't get me wrong. But it has nothing the old trilogy has. I don't think it gets much love from the first-hour fans. I mean....cloning, Vader, Yoda, reverse-grip lightsaber...it's an explosion of nerdgasm.
Swtor is trying to create a setting based on the movies and is much more subtle in doing so. It's using the movies as inspiration, not using everything IN the movies.

It is over-the-top epic though, have to give you that. But we haven't seen the lv 60 powers from ToR either...

I think I am on the opposite side of the coin from your opinion. I think that TFU's story itself(haven't played the sequel) was serviceable enough given that a lot of the time between RotS and ANH is unknown, but the gameplay was utter crap. They ballooned the force powers up to the point where they were barely recognizable while simultaneously using an arcade beat-em-up model that made the lightsaber look only slightly less effective than the baseball bat in Double Dragon. Throw in the stupid QT finishers that I found annoying enough in God of War, and I quickly realized that the only thing that kept me playing the game was the story. Definitely glad I waited for the game to hit the bargain bins.

But at least TFU had a good reason for ripping off the aesthetic of the movies. It took place in the same era. SWTOR has no such excuse. So while the stylized graphics doesn't bother me as much as it does the OP(though still not my preference), the lazy choice to rip off the movies rather than come up with their own aesthetic (which they had already developed in KOTOR!) does. Does it bother me enough to prevent me from buying the game? Perhaps not on its own, but it does act as a bit of a warning sign that SWTOR might not be the kind of game I'm interested in. So I'm taking a wait and see stance at the moment.

EDIT: annnnd I just realized that I only looked at the month of that post and not the year. Aren't my cheeks red.

Master Finch
08-22-2011, 02:19 AM
Interesting. I understand what you're saying about the graphics, but, they will no doubt grow on you. I was a bit iffy about The Clone Wars at first, and I get a bit iffy about lightsabers not being able to cut through stuff. But I adapted and I made excuses for that (cortosis, etc.) and realistically, you shouldn't moan about this stuff before you've actually given the game a try.

It's not all about the graphics, it's about the content. I've played games like WoW which involves repeatedly spining around in circles hitting someone 82 times in the face with a battleaxe and they still won't die, whilst listening to 200 different sound effects from other players until the opponent finally submits to the 9,000 cuts and bruises he's sustained and keels over, dead.

With the combat, I think it looks pretty good. I know a lot of people don't really like how high-tech some of the equipment people are using is, but you have to remember that this is set 4,000 years before Star Wars IV. That's 4,000 years before The Phantom Menace if you round it up, so it's a completely alien time to the Star Wars we now know, and some of this tech might've vanished.

Like in Halo: Reach for example. They had amazing technology and upgrades and stuff, but it all went with time.

I think the main thing really is this:

Don't bitch until you've played it.

Klw
08-22-2011, 12:25 PM
I won't be playing it because it's an MMO. Have you ever heard of the "WoW Freakout Kid?" I have no doubt that I would turn into that kid if I ever picked up an MMO. I can get extremely addicted to much less immersive games like turn-based rpg's and rts's, all single-player even. The only games I will even touch nowadays are single-player story adventure games like TFU that actually end at some point. The less replayability the better. If this game were like TFU I would be drooling over it.

Master Finch
08-22-2011, 03:11 PM
I won't be playing it because it's an MMO. Have you ever heard of the "WoW Freakout Kid?" I have no doubt that I would turn into that kid if I ever picked up an MMO. I can get extremely addicted to much less immersive games like turn-based rpg's and rts's, all single-player even. The only games I will even touch nowadays are single-player story adventure games like TFU that actually end at some point. The less replayability the better. If this game were like TFU I would be drooling over it.

But World of Warcraft MAKES you addicted. It DEMANDS all your time to be able to play it. I don't think SW:TOR will be like that.

RogueJedi86
08-26-2011, 03:57 PM
Klw, the WoW Freakout Kid was faking it. WoW doesn't turn you into a moron. If you act like that you already had problems before that. Don't think that kid is indicative of how MMO players are or what MMOs can do to you.

I'm sure I could make unfair assessments on non-MMO players too. Like Kroyt's Rage for FPS players(warning, salty language, as expected for a video of FPS players): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG42S_PmRs4

Klw
08-26-2011, 09:53 PM
1. I insulted you by admitting that I have a tendency to get addicted to video games? If anything, I insulted myself. I never made a single "assessment" about other gamers in my entire post. The only generalization that I made is that MMO's are addictive. I stand by that statement.

2. MMO addiction is real for many players. I can come up with many more examples, including scholarly ones. In fact, I know a kid who got addicted to WoW and had to recover. I also knew a kid who was addicted to Halo. Here is some quick data: http://scienceblogs.com/cognitivedaily/2008/06/are_mmorpgs_addictive.php

3. I don't play FPS's either, mostly because I'm terrible at them but also because I know that they are also addictive.

It is my opinion that MMO's are dangerous and can have evil consequences if you take them too far. It is also my opinion that certain types of video games, like MMO's, are more addictive than others. But that doesn't mean that I think that all WoW players are "morons." Above I was simply answering the OP's request for reasons "why I won't be playing TOR." I won't be playing it because I have a past history of video game addiction.Now I will leave this forum and go back to the TFU forum if you don't mind.

RogueJedi86
08-27-2011, 02:11 AM
Everything has evil consequences if you take it too far. Even eating can have bad consequences if you overdo it, resulting in clogged arteries and heart attacks and heart disease. But you don't starve yourself to avoid such problems. The same applies to addictions of any sort. There's no such thing as a good addiction, that's why the word has such bad connotations these days. You name it, there's someone out there addicted to it. There's even people addicted to random things like growing their fingernails to lengths that render them unable to do anything with their hands.

My assessment remark was, like the rest of my post, focusing solely on the WoW Freakout Kid. I was saying few MMO players are like that if any, and that everything has a few freaks like that, including FPS games(hence my linked Croyt's Anger). I feel fairly sure the WoW Freakout Kid was proven fake. Sticking a remote in his butt? Come on.

I imagine TOR will be easier to not fall into the deep end on since each class has a storyline. You have obvious breaks at the end of each act(of which each class has 3) and at the end of each class' entire story.

Don't run off, you're welcome here. We're just having a spirited debate is all. :)

Klw
08-27-2011, 02:57 AM
I'm not so sure that the WoW Freakout Kid was proven to be a fake, but I'd welcome a link that proves it. People do strange things when they are in a fit of rage. They grab the nearest object and try to destroy it or use it to destroy themselves. If that was acting then it was certainly very good acting.

I don't think we are really having a debate because all you are doing is attacking straw men with red herrings. I don't disagree with any points you've made and you don't disagree with any points I've made. No need to get spirited about anything.

Now back to the main topic: You may be right that TOR is different, but I'm not willing to risk addiction to it to find out.

Astor
08-27-2011, 05:02 AM
The only generalization that I made is that MMO's are addictive. I stand by that statement.

They are no more addictive than any other type of game.

2. MMO addiction is real for many players. I can come up with many more examples, including scholarly ones. In fact, I know a kid who got addicted to WoW and had to recover. I also knew a kid who was addicted to Halo. Here is some quick data: http://scienceblogs.com/cognitivedaily/2008/06/are_mmorpgs_addictive.php

That study even admits that the results are far from conclusive. More so, it fails to take into account the fact that responsibility lies with the player. It's all well and good blaming the game, or the publisher, or whatever else, but ultimately the decision to start/stop playing lies with the player.

Klw
08-27-2011, 12:43 PM
I've heard this same argument from Republicans arguing against gun control. "Guns don't kill people; people kill people." It's just a play on words. In reality, guns make it much easier. In the same way, games which are designed never to end make video game addiction much more likely than games which do end.

Addiction is caused by the "reward" psychology. Rewards "reinforce" certain types of behavior. MMO's are designed to keep you hooked by constantly holding the carrot out in front of you. There is always another reward waiting for you if you play a little longer. You don't just play it; you subscribe to it.

They don't prove addicting to everybody because not everyone has the same tastes in video games. You might find WoW quests boring, for instance, so that you stop playing it. It's because you are not getting a psychological reward for such behavior. For other people, though, playing WoW is like a drug.

RogueJedi86
08-27-2011, 01:17 PM
TOR does have a more firm end though. Your class storyline exists and it does end. Other MMOs don't have such a clean cut end, but TOR does. You can keep playing after, but your storyline had a firm end for you to quit if you want to find an end.

Congrats on 100 posts.

Darth Avlectus
08-27-2011, 05:16 PM
I, personally, am done with stories set in the timeline most of us grew up loving. That whole era has been milked out, whether it's in games, novels, comics or tv series, and none of it ever came close to the quality of the original trilogy.
This.

I'm glad some people are steering away from this era, though not everyone is using that freedom to its full capacity. SWTOR is more than 3,000 years before the movies, but it still tries to connect as much as possible to the movies and in my opinion, actually not in a subtle way. Tie Fighters, Clone Troopers, Boba Fett, Moffs, Hoth, these are some of the results of the movies "inspiring" SWTOR.
It also doesn't help that the first star destroyers were made by this resurgent sith empire. Or that the padawan's voice sounds just like the guy who did Anakin's voice for the CGI CW show. Some people like it and that's fine but I'm on the same train as you when it comes to hoping for just a bit more originality in some of these aspects. A nod here and a wink there are fine but more it is done the more it screams 'rehash'.


I don't agree on SWTOR being better had they adapted a more action-y gameplay à la The Force Unleashed. I have only played a bit of TFU, but there's hardly much depth in its gameplay, something that I think is needed for games in the MMO genre. And I'm not pro-over the top gameplay, myself. Agreed, it's disappointing that SWTOR isn't trying to innovate when it comes to MMO gameplay (and keeps hiding behind the "story pillar" as if that was the one thing that was missing from MMO's) and it's precisely that aspect that will make or break the game, no matter how much effort they put into their storytelling. But I still prefer traditional MMO gameplay over TFU-based gameplay.
I don't have sufficient experience with MMO's to be able to support or refute this--just like 15 minutes with everquest almost 10 years ago.

I do see them maybe trying to include an element of TFU in there, though, but that would be speculative on my part.

So far as storyline, they probably have just made it more structured and less customizable than other MMO's. You "can't get away" from the storyline apparently. You might be able to go to Mos Eisley and have a bar fight for $***s and giggles or go ride a junk transport railcar on Ord Mantell for teh lulz I hope (Shadows of the empire).

No mounting a speeder bike, swoop, or animal backs or so I hear. :( I would have loved to get ahold of a bantha after slaughtering a bunch of sand people. Tauntauns, banthas, those feathery headed dog yelp sounding giant lizzards on utapau, tame one of those humongous tusked ape creatures, getting packs of womprats to sick on thieving gangsters.

This takes the fun out of exploring the wilds. Well most of it anyways. :D

I think I might ***eventually*** play.

adamqd
08-28-2011, 04:16 AM
The only generalization that I made is that MMO's are addictive. I stand by that statement.

Addictive? no/maybe, promote investment in your character and hard work? very much.

If you have an addictive personality then thats a Psy.D's problem.

The character is you, you make the choices, earn the credits, decide how you look, join groups, make friends. I understand its harder to walk away from than say TFU, but addiction is a strong word.

poseidon
08-29-2011, 06:07 AM
I wont be playing it due to the fees i don't have the spare money for that at the moment plus i would be paying like 50 something for the game and what 15 or so a month just to play,don't get me wrong it look good and i play mmos like dungeon fighter online maplestory etc, but some demand allot of money which is why i'm not getting it.

Deft Aklin
08-29-2011, 12:10 PM
Okay, so... I tried reading all of these posts, but it seems what I read everyone missed the true core reason why they use cartoon style graphics; It's so we can have millions of players. The general reason they tone down the graphics in this manner is to allow more computers and particularly older GPUs to play the game. This for an MMO can be life or death as the more people that can play the game creates a larger audience for the game to begin with.

Miltiades
08-29-2011, 12:41 PM
Okay, so... I tried reading all of these posts, but it seems what I read everyone missed the true core reason why they use cartoon style graphics; It's so we can have millions of players. The general reason they tone down the graphics in this manner is to allow more computers and particularly older GPUs to play the game. This for an MMO can be life or death as the more people that can play the game creates a larger audience for the game to begin with. The "official" reason is to give the game a unique look. But you're right, the true reason is allowing for a bigger player base. Of course, it doesn't mean it completely succeeds in the graphics department. Guild Wars 2 seems to pull off an art style much better than TOR does, in my opinion, and as far as I know, it aspires to be able to be played by older PC's as well.

Prime
08-31-2011, 12:17 PM
I don't mind lower level graphics. Hell, I'd be pleased as punch with KOTOR/TSL graphics. It's just some of the art design that bugs me. I'm just not big on the Sith-as-maniacal-wizards-in-over-the-top-outfits and so on. Even if they matched more with the cinematic clips I'd be happier.

Master Finch
09-01-2011, 02:36 AM
Addictive? no/maybe, promote investment in your character and hard work? very much.

If you have an addictive personality then thats a Psy.D's problem.

The character is you, you make the choices, earn the credits, decide how you look, join groups, make friends. I understand its harder to walk away from than say TFU, but addiction is a strong word.

I couldn't agree more. I think you're saying what everyone else knows to be honest.

Deft Aklin
09-02-2011, 12:03 PM
I don't mind lower level graphics. Hell, I'd be pleased as punch with KOTOR/TSL graphics. It's just some of the art design that bugs me. I'm just not big on the Sith-as-maniacal-wizards-in-over-the-top-outfits and so on. Even if they matched more with the cinematic clips I'd be happier.

I'm pretty sure I'd /wrists if it was KotOR graphics. lol Have you played through it again recently? I have... it was ugly... but has a great story. :)

RogueJedi86
09-02-2011, 02:29 PM
Yeah look at Bastila's main picture on Wookieepedia, you can see the low detail in hindsight of the better graphics of today.

Lynk Former
09-04-2011, 07:28 PM
Don't all Star Wars games follow that formula? Take another game and add a Star Wars skin to it. By this definition, ALL Star Wars games are for the most casual of casuals and not for "serious" gamers or "hardcore" gamers or whatever you want to call yourselves.

Either way, I'm gonna wait till the game comes out and I actually play it and see for myself before I make any definite claims about it one way or the other. After all, it makes more sense to damn a game or praise it once you've actually experienced it.

VeniVidiVicous
09-04-2011, 09:08 PM
I'm pretty sure I'd /wrists if it was KotOR graphics. lol Have you played through it again recently? I have... it was ugly... but has a great story. :)

I respectfully disagree here.

I'd rather have uglier graphics if meant the ott costumes and saturday cartoon look was gone, it's just not the SW I initially got into.

Prime
09-04-2011, 10:52 PM
I'm pretty sure I'd /wrists if it was KotOR graphics. lol Have you played through it again recently? I have... it was ugly... but has a great story. :)Yes. I'm playing it currently.

I still say the designs of KOTOR costume wise are better than TOR.

Shem
09-25-2011, 11:51 PM
I haven't been by this area of LucasForums in a while and it's mostly because I'm 99% sure I'll never play TOR. When I saw this forum title, I thought I would post my thoughts on why.

The biggest reasons why:

-Paying for a game, then paying monthly fees to continue to play it. That's the biggest turnoff right there.

-My computer is over 4 years old I don't like the idea of having to pay money to upgrade it right now when I have a wife and daughter to support.


The little reasons why:

-The game/graphics looks very outdated. That shouldn't surprise anybody once they learn it started production in 2005 (It took 6 years to complete this game).

-The costumes look a bit retarded.

-The combat system looks outdated.

-The idea of having to pair up with the 10-year-old age group isn't very appealing and it's very possible the bulk of the online players will be young.

-The idea I can't explore the game at my own pace since you need other players to complete my quests maybe frustrating on my end. And I don't have the time I used to have to play games since my daughter was born last year.

-I hate seeing a franchise that was based on a single role playing game turn into something else to continue the story. It messes a part of its tradition.



Possible reasons why this game could be a failure:

-A game that takes 6 years to develop means big time money was put into it and that means it needs to make a lot of money to cover the costs.

-We're in an economic recession at the moment and that means people are tightening their wallets. And since the bulk of the people who want to play the game maybe kids, parents may feel differently about paying for a monthly online subscription because of what is going on economically.

-Making it an PC only game is a mistake as well. PC gaming is slowly dying. I have a brother who is obsessed with gaming and following everything that goes on with it and has read where it is a dying field from time-to-time as more and more people are going to console gaming. A reason for that is the cost of having to upgrade your computer to keep up with the advancing technology on your PC where as that doesn't happen with your console. So with a slowly dying industry with a bad economy could spell financial losses for a game that took 6 years to develop.


**It's a shame in a way that this game wasn't made for the PlayStation and Xbox Live networks as it would get a bigger audience in its turnout. That would have a good way to tempt me to try it.

Lordjedi
09-26-2011, 01:13 AM
To Shem,

I can see the reasons as to why someone would not want to pay monthly fees to play a video game, but just think about it this way. Say you get a new game every couple of months, that's around $60. Meaning it's around $500-600 a year. When a TOR membership would be around $240 a year or so. I played pay to play MMO's and found that since there is a lot of new content and a live environment, that it was one of the only few games I was playing, and it kept me playing for a long time.

I also wished for a KotOR 3, but I guess this will be satisfying. It seems like a different MMO from others, such as World of Warcraft. For one, BioWare has continued it's tradition of having story based games with dialogue options. When you are questing you could make the choice whether a character lives or dies, like in KotOR. The whole "dark side, light side" points thing is still there too. You also get companions, just like in KotOR.

The outdated graphics are linked to the economic recession. As you stated, you don't wish to get a new computer and spend money for upgrades. Which is why BioWare made the graphics, for lack of a better term, crappy. They want as many people to play as possible, and when they have games with high end graphics, not as many people will be playing.

I would believe you can explore the world on your own pace. In many of the MMO's I've played, there was barely any group questing. The group quests were mainly for dungeons or for killing and higher level creature, that you can't solo. Most of the quests other than that were solo. You would get through quests faster if had were questing with others however. And you must also understand, much of the footage online for TOR is from 2009. TOR also had a moderate graphics update and combat update since then.

TOR, like many MMO's will have guilds. These are sometimes restricted for people of a certain age group or region, and you may have to apply in order to get invited. That could be one of the ways you could get away from the 10 year old fanbase.

I don't believe that PC Gaming is dying. I do believe many newer gamers are going to consoles first as you could get a Xbox 360 for $200, while you can get a gaming PC for $1,500. I am a PC gamer, as well as a console gamer. I prefer console for online and PC for singleplayer. The mod community is a big reason why people still buy for PC, and I just think the PC community is better overall.

TOR couldn't have worked on consoles, not at all. A big part of the game is talking to other players, which would be hard on consoles. In the end, MMO's just work best on PC's.

I must ask the question of whether or not you have played a MMO before. If you have not I recommend playing a free one, or try a free trial to one, and you could know what you might expect in TOR.

Mav
09-26-2011, 01:43 AM
I haven't been by this area of LucasForums in a while and it's mostly because I'm 99% sure I'll never play TOR. When I saw this forum title, I thought I would post my thoughts on why.

The biggest reasons why:

-Paying for a game, then paying monthly fees to continue to play it. That's the biggest turnoff right there.

-My computer is over 4 years old I don't like the idea of having to pay money to upgrade it right now when I have a wife and daughter to support.1. Valid reasoning dependent on one's financial situation, for myself a month of pay equates to less than an hour of work so it isn't a big deal, but for others the turn off is easy to understand.

2. Inarguable reasoning, everyone has different priorities in life, family is a sound first for sure.


The little reasons why:

-The game/graphics looks very outdated. That shouldn't surprise anybody once they learn it started production in 2005 (It took 6 years to complete this game).

-The costumes look a bit retarded.

-The combat system looks outdated.

-The idea of having to pair up with the 10-year-old age group isn't very appealing and it's very possible the bulk of the online players will be young.

-The idea I can't explore the game at my own pace since you need other players to complete my quests maybe frustrating on my end. And I don't have the time I used to have to play games since my daughter was born last year.

-I hate seeing a franchise that was based on a single role playing game turn into something else to continue the story. It messes a part of its tradition.1. The game graphics looking outdated and stylized is intentional with respect to one of your above arguments, not everyone has the money to upgrade their computers. From the get go BioWare has stated that their intent behind their design was to make the game accessible to as many people as possible.

2. Personal point of view, I for one think some of the Smuggler outfits (http://www.thatvideogameblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/tor_smuggler.jpg) are awesome though.

3. I can't say either way, seeing as I haven't been able to try it out for myself. I don't know if you've played other MMO's to compare it to, I haven't really, but I do think it is a bit silly to judge without trying.

The Rest - BioWare's stated that a majority of the game can be played solo, but the experienced is enhanced with friends, as for 10 year olds, that's why you'd play with the folks here, right? ;) I also think it is a bit of a leap to talk about how well the game continues the KOTOR tradition before seeing what it is actually made of.

Possible reasons why this game could be a failure:

-A game that takes 6 years to develop means big time money was put into it and that means it needs to make a lot of money to cover the costs.

-We're in an economic recession at the moment and that means people are tightening their wallets. And since the bulk of the people who want to play the game maybe kids, parents may feel differently about paying for a monthly online subscription because of what is going on economically.

-Making it an PC only game is a mistake as well. PC gaming is slowly dying. I have a brother who is obsessed with gaming and following everything that goes on with it and has read where it is a dying field from time-to-time as more and more people are going to console gaming. A reason for that is the cost of having to upgrade your computer to keep up with the advancing technology on your PC where as that doesn't happen with your console. So with a slowly dying industry with a bad economy could spell financial losses for a game that took 6 years to develop.


**It's a shame in a way that this game wasn't made for the PlayStation and Xbox Live networks as it would get a bigger audience in its turnout. That would have a good way to tempt me to try it.There have been arguments to both sides about how the recent economic recession has affected video games. I tend to believe that people facing financial trouble take solace in entertainment media. I know we aren't talking about the same genre or even audience of gamers, but Call of Duty, for what it's worth continues to break sales records each year. World of Warcraft's latest expansion broke several sales records for its respective genre. Also, if EA and BioWare are to be believed they have a massive amount of pre-orders for TOR and are expecting the largest launch for a MMO ever.

As far as PC gaming dying that's another hotly debated topic, that for the purpose of thread derailment I wont really get into more than saying that I don't believe PC gaming is dying.

Sabretooth
09-26-2011, 05:08 AM
Considering the nature and environment of PC gaming, I actually think it's impossible for it to 'die' at all. It might get pitifully weak and slow or even outdated, but it's never going to be a dead platform unless something bizarre happens like Microsoft creating a new kind of OS that removes all backwards-compatibility or PC users adopting increasingly disparate OSs, both of which are highly unlikely unlikely scenarios.

RoxStar
09-26-2011, 12:38 PM
I haven't been by this area of LucasForums in a while and it's mostly because I'm 99% sure I'll never play TOR. When I saw this forum title, I thought I would post my thoughts on why.

The biggest reasons why:


No one is going to knock you for supporting your family.


The little reasons why:

-The costumes look a bit retarded.

...

-The idea of having to pair up with the 10-year-old age group isn't very appealing and it's very possible the bulk of the online players will be young.

-The idea I can't explore the game at my own pace since you need other players to complete my quests maybe frustrating on my end. And I don't have the time I used to have to play games since my daughter was born last year.


1) It always pains me to hear a grown adult say the word "retarded".

2) Why would the bulk of players be 10 year olds if you've already established just how expensive the game is going to be?

3) I was under the impression that you could complete the quests on your own and have "bots" running the quests by your side.

MajikMyst
09-28-2011, 10:06 AM
The combat is no different than in WOW.. It is basically turn based, you have skills, cool downs, you have force power or energy.. It is essentially the same combat mechanic as WOW..

The graphics are pretty bad if you have to turn the setting down to run on your computer.. If you run the game with max settings with full shadows.. The game is gorgous.. The graphics are awsome.. Top notch spectacular.. I get goose bumps when I look at places like Nar Shadda or Tatooine.. The stories are awsome.. They really pull you into the game.. It is hard to turn the game off at times..

I am a beta tester and have been playing it since July..

I can't fault your reasoning of supporting your family.. Family is important.. One of the most important things in all of our lives..

As for pay?? WOW was a pay MMO.. All of the better MMO's usually are subscription.. WOW was a game that was forever evolving.. With the exception of their expansion packs.. Blizzard was pretty good at adding new content in between expansions at no charge.. The subscriptions also pay for the servers and the 24hr maintenance of the servers.. Blizzard made a lot of money off of WOW.. They also had about 50 servers or more world wide.. I can't imagine how much it costs to maintain them, upgrade them when needed, and staff them on a 24hr basis.. Not to mention pay for the bandwidth needed to allow all of us to log in to play..

I can't go into details about the game due to an NDA with Bioware.. So don't ask.. The info I have already given is all info that can be obtained from their website or videos..

Lynk Former
09-28-2011, 08:57 PM
...It's not turn based. An example of a turn based system would be Pokemon.




It does suck for a lot of people who don't want to or can't invest in an MMO though, in interviews they've been touting how if people want to play it by themselves, they can go through the entire game without really interacting with anyone... but they don't mention the fact that you'd still need to pay to play online even though you don't WANT to play online haha.

MajikMyst
09-29-2011, 03:47 AM
...It's not turn based. An example of a turn based system would be Pokemon.

I consider it sort of turn based as in everything has a world cool down and it does.. You can't just beat on a button and kill mobs with a million saber slashes..

The World cool down basically makes it so both you have a chance to hit the enemy, and the enemy has a chance to hit you..

I fail to see why you would say that I am incorrect and offer no explination as to why?? I suppose your claim is that unless it is Pokemon it isn't turn based?? Is it possible maybe if other games can operate on a different mechanic and still be considered turn based?? Try not to be so rigid in your views..

It is sorta real time.. Again except for the global cool downs.. So how does Real time/turn based feel.. Since that happens to be the prefered description for TOR..

WOW as I said would also fall into that catagory.. So?? Where exacltly was I wrong??

Before you go say someone is wrong.. Please read the reason why they said what they said and then offer an alternative.. I qualified my reasoning.. You should do the same..

Shem
09-29-2011, 05:49 AM
Whoa, I didn't expect so much response after being away for a few days. :D

To Shem,

I can see the reasons as to why someone would not want to pay monthly fees to play a video game, but just think about it this way. Say you get a new game every couple of months, that's around $60. Meaning it's around $500-600 a year. When a TOR membership would be around $240 a year or so.
Well, the time I have put into gaming has changed over the last year since the birth of our daughter, Lindy. I've devoted more time into spending time with my little girl because I can't get enough of her at times, especially as she gets older and she is capable of more interaction. If any of you have followed me on Xbox Live, I've been on it for 3 years and most of the points I put on my gamerscore was put on before Lindy's birth. I think this year alone I'd be lucky to have put 2000 points into it and that's considering I have over 27,000 on it right now.

Another thing is the money put into gaming right now. I've bought only two games so far in 2011, and one of them I haven't put a lot of time into yet. And both of those I didn't pay $60 for. Though I do get free games from 2K Sports and that's because I've been a board moderator there for 2 1/2 years now. So every year when their new baseball and basketball games come out, I get a free copy. So I have received three games so far this year, but only two I've paid for. I will be getting the next basketball game NBA 2K12 very soon in the mail and I will be getting new Batman game (Arkham City) next month.

And FYI, a new game every couple of months at $60 would be $360 a year. ;) There is sales tax for most people if you want to include that as money invested in games, but I never pay it. I live right by the Oregon border and in the state of Oregon, there is no sales tax and I always make purchases like that in Oregon.

The outdated graphics are linked to the economic recession. As you stated, you don't wish to get a new computer and spend money for upgrades. Which is why BioWare made the graphics, for lack of a better term, crappy. They want as many people to play as possible, and when they have games with high end graphics, not as many people will be playing.
I would think the graphics look the way they do because they started working on the game in 2005. And those graphics look more like a 2005 game. The issue then becomes it took 6 years to complete.

TOR couldn't have worked on consoles, not at all. A big part of the game is talking to other players, which would be hard on consoles. In the end, MMO's just work best on PC's.
If talking to players is the "big" part, then that wouldn't be a problem. I've talked to people on Xbox Live and even talked with them while playing a game with them. All you have to do is plug a headset into the controller. That solves what you believe to be the biggest issue. And yes, you can talk to multiple people at once in an Xbox Live party. ;)



1. Valid reasoning dependent on one's financial situation, for myself a month of pay equates to less than an hour of work so it isn't a big deal, but for others the turn off is easy to understand.
Well, if you're single and making $20, you have lots of money to spend if you're not up to your ears in debt and you don't have an expensive life style. It's a little different when you have mouths to feed.

1. The game graphics looking outdated and stylized is intentional with respect to one of your above arguments, not everyone has the money to upgrade their computers. From the get go BioWare has stated that their intent behind their design was to make the game accessible to as many people as possible.
Well, come to think of it, they have to make it that way to make sure they can make a profit from it because of all the money they have invested in it. But then again there were other things from watching demos and such that didn't look very appealing besides the graphics. The graphics were one part of the reason why the game looks outdated.

2. Personal point of view, I for one think some of the Smuggler outfits (http://www.thatvideogameblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/tor_smuggler.jpg) are awesome though.
Well, to make sure everybody knows what I was trying to say, I was generalizing it overall. Personally the styles they made in the previous two KOTOR games were much better. But that’s just my personal opinion.

The Rest - BioWare's stated that a majority of the game can be played solo
But that’s just it. You can’t play the “whole” game solo.

but the experienced is enhanced with friends, as for 10 year olds, that's why you'd play with the folks here, right? ;)
I admit, that is one of very few appeals is hooking up with all of us KOTOR vets at Holowan Labs. The problem is people’s schedules along with the possible time zones they may live in and such. Like some people can put more time in than others.

I also think it is a bit of a leap to talk about how well the game continues the KOTOR tradition before seeing what it is actually made of.
The part that breaks it for me is making it a different type of game than the previous two. That’s a huge part of the tradition IMO. Had BioWare made a new KOTOR game using the same engine they have been using for the Mass Effect games, I would be sold on playing it.

There have been arguments to both sides about how the recent economic recession has affected video games. I tend to believe that people facing financial trouble take solace in entertainment media. I know we aren't talking about the same genre or even audience of gamers, but Call of Duty, for what it's worth continues to break sales records each year. World of Warcraft's latest expansion broke several sales records for its respective genre. Also, if EA and BioWare are to be believed they have a massive amount of pre-orders for TOR and are expecting the largest launch for a MMO ever.
And it will have to have a big start to make up for all the money invested in making this game. But again and if I read it right, you did in a subtle way acknowledge Call of Duty breaking sales record may have to do with the fact they’re being sold on consoles. How well would it do if it was a PC only game? We’d be talking a different story.

As far as PC gaming dying that's another hotly debated topic, that for the purpose of thread derailment I wont really get into more than saying that I don't believe PC gaming is dying.
Maybe dying is a strong word, but it is slowly slowing down. I don’t think it will completely die, but it isn’t what it used to be.

1) It always pains me to hear a grown adult say the word "retarded".
Saying that opens the door to a political correctness debate. Sometimes I really just want to spit on that as many ways to describe things become a political correctness thing and I usually make a habit of changing my habits on what I think is the most important issues. Like how to describe a person’s race for example. Too many people easily get offended by that so that’s when I feel it’s important to make a change on what words that should be used in those types of situations.

Anyway, using that word has been a habit of mine easily for over 20 years of my life and have used it to describe something I think is or looks stupid without a second thought. And everybody has a point-of-view of what is offensive to say and what isn’t. My only advice is to learn to accept what you perceive to be little faults in others and not take offense over something so small and let it “pain” you. ;)

2) Why would the bulk of players be 10 year olds if you've already established just how expensive the game is going to be?
I thought I made myself clearer. It wasn’t talking about just 10 year olds. I was talking about the age group in general. From my point of view, I was also trying to include the teenagers since they’re technically in their 10’s and those younger than that. It’s just we don’t call it that. We say 20’s, 30’s, 40’s, etc, we just don’t say 10’s. And I could have said teens, but that is 13-19, not 10-19.

Anyway, that age group depends on their parents for the majority of them. I could go on to talk about those who have a job part time that could pay for it, but if you don’t include their summer breaks, they’re going to school and working, which will take up most of their days on most days. That leaves the majority of the age group depending on their parents to pay for their monthly subscription since they’re the ones with the credit cards necessary to pay for it.

But since you also established how I brought up how expensive it is, I thought I covered that in why I think this game could be a financial failure later on in my post; because most of the gaming is done by 10’s age group from what I understand.

3) I was under the impression that you could complete the quests on your own and have "bots" running the quests by your side.
I’ve read on the TOR site and others have elaborated on it in this thread that you will need to team up with other online players to complete some quests.

Considering the nature and environment of PC gaming, I actually think it's impossible for it to 'die' at all. It might get pitifully weak and slow or even outdated, but it's never going to be a dead platform unless something bizarre happens like Microsoft creating a new kind of OS that removes all backwards-compatibility or PC users adopting increasingly disparate OSs, both of which are highly unlikely unlikely scenarios.
Like I said earlier, dying may have been the wrong word to use since everybody has a point of view of how to interpret what someone makes by a word.
The combat is no different than in WOW.. It is basically turn based, you have skills, cool downs, you have force power or energy.. It is essentially the same combat mechanic as WOW..
And that is an outdated combat system. After playing a role playing game like Mass Effect, I don’t want to go back to that style of combat. It’s not as fun.

I am a beta tester and have been playing it since July..
Sounds like fun and it sounds like you’re really enjoying it.

As for pay?? WOW was a pay MMO.. All of the better MMO's usually are subscription.. WOW was a game that was forever evolving.. With the exception of their expansion packs.. Blizzard was pretty good at adding new content in between expansions at no charge.. The subscriptions also pay for the servers and the 24hr maintenance of the servers.. Blizzard made a lot of money off of WOW.. They also had about 50 servers or more world wide.. I can't imagine how much it costs to maintain them, upgrade them when needed, and staff them on a 24hr basis.. Not to mention pay for the bandwidth needed to allow all of us to log in to play..
That right there is a possible reason why this game can fail. All the money for the monthly subscription needs to go to financing the servers and such. That means it needs to make up for all the money that was invested in making this game in the amount of games sold. And since it is a PC only game in a tough economy; that could be a big OUCH!

...It's not turn based. An example of a turn based system would be Pokemon.
:lol:

It does suck for a lot of people who don't want to or can't invest in an MMO though, in interviews they've been touting how if people want to play it by themselves, they can go through the entire game without really interacting with anyone... but they don't mention the fact that you'd still need to pay to play online even though you don't WANT to play online haha.
And that is one of its turnoffs from my point of view as well. Personally if they wanted to make sure they made a profit from this game, they should have made available on consoles as well. Even if it meant converting it as a single player game.

Lynk Former
09-29-2011, 07:48 AM
@ MajikMyst: The cool down mechanic does not equal turn based since it's not a matter of one player attack, end turn, one enemy attack, end turn, repeat.

Also, you don't need to get so defensive, I'm not trying to pick on you or anything.

Deft Aklin
10-04-2011, 11:43 AM
I consider it sort of turn based as in everything has a world cool down and it does.. You can't just beat on a button and kill mobs with a million saber slashes..

The World cool down basically makes it so both you have a chance to hit the enemy, and the enemy has a chance to hit you..

I fail to see why you would say that I am incorrect and offer no explination as to why?? I suppose your claim is that unless it is Pokemon it isn't turn based?? Is it possible maybe if other games can operate on a different mechanic and still be considered turn based?? Try not to be so rigid in your views..

It is sorta real time.. Again except for the global cool downs.. So how does Real time/turn based feel.. Since that happens to be the prefered description for TOR..

WOW as I said would also fall into that catagory.. So?? Where exacltly was I wrong??

Before you go say someone is wrong.. Please read the reason why they said what they said and then offer an alternative.. I qualified my reasoning.. You should do the same..Then by your definition, FPS games are turn based. Since each weapon is assigned a specific cooldown to prevent multiple shots being fired at once. (Yes I am talking about milliseconds here, but it's a cooldown) Most of the cooldowns you speak of are a second or so. The major abilities will have 30-60 second cooldowns to prevent spamming of an overpowering ability. For instance, shields, escape mechanics, crowd control. That doesn't make it turn based. Turn based, by definition, your opponent can't do anything until you've finished your turn and vice versa.

MajikMyst
10-07-2011, 07:50 AM
Then by your definition, FPS games are turn based. Since each weapon is assigned a specific cooldown to prevent multiple shots being fired at once. (Yes I am talking about milliseconds here, but it's a cooldown) Most of the cooldowns you speak of are a second or so. The major abilities will have 30-60 second cooldowns to prevent spamming of an overpowering ability. For instance, shields, escape mechanics, crowd control. That doesn't make it turn based. Turn based, by definition, your opponent can't do anything until you've finished your turn and vice versa.

Not at all.. Rocket spam for the win..

Your nit picking.. No FPS has a global cool down.. You don't fire one weapon and have all your weapons or skills go on cool down.. Come on now.. Be serious here.. Depending on the game, and depending on the weapon, some have no cool downs at all.. In many FPS games where a machine gun type weapon is used, spray and pray is the tactic of choice.. No cool down there..

Your problem is that you are stuck on what a turn based game should be.. The last true or strict turn based game I played was Final Fantasy.. Not sure what number.. But it was an early one..

The turn base here in todays MMO is basically there for the server..

Think Diablo 2 for a minute.. Depending on what your cast time was, most majic spells had no cool down at all.. Necro's could spam bone spirit, Amazons could spam their arrows.. That was not a turn based game.. You literally could kill someone simply by shooting faster than them.. And for some that hacked their own gear.. Cast time was down to nothing.. You should have seen the matches on open Battle Net.. Where you could hack your toons..

Turn base doesn't just mean.. You do something and then you wait for your opponent to do something before you can do something again.. The global cool down keeps from being a spam fest and spray and pray.. It allows both players to execute a skill, and have the server register that skill.. Hence the Real time/Turn based.. No.. It isn't a strict hardcore turn based game.. But it is still considered a turn based game.. An RT/TB if you will..

But you can call it whatever you want.. It really doesn't matter..

Lynk Former
10-07-2011, 08:17 AM
Anyway... we'll let the people who stumble on to this thread and read that little debate choose for themselves who is right and who is simply making s*** up because they don't want to accept that they're wrong.

I'm sure people can make up their own minds.

Deft Aklin
10-08-2011, 04:04 AM
Not at all.. Rocket spam for the win..

Your nit picking.. No FPS has a global cool down.. You don't fire one weapon and have all your weapons or skills go on cool down.. Come on now.. Be serious here.. Depending on the game, and depending on the weapon, some have no cool downs at all.. In many FPS games where a machine gun type weapon is used, spray and pray is the tactic of choice.. No cool down there..

Your problem is that you are stuck on what a turn based game should be.. The last true or strict turn based game I played was Final Fantasy.. Not sure what number.. But it was an early one..

The turn base here in todays MMO is basically there for the server..

Think Diablo 2 for a minute.. Depending on what your cast time was, most majic spells had no cool down at all.. Necro's could spam bone spirit, Amazons could spam their arrows.. That was not a turn based game.. You literally could kill someone simply by shooting faster than them.. And for some that hacked their own gear.. Cast time was down to nothing.. You should have seen the matches on open Battle Net.. Where you could hack your toons..

Turn base doesn't just mean.. You do something and then you wait for your opponent to do something before you can do something again.. The global cool down keeps from being a spam fest and spray and pray.. It allows both players to execute a skill, and have the server register that skill.. Hence the Real time/Turn based.. No.. It isn't a strict hardcore turn based game.. But it is still considered a turn based game.. An RT/TB if you will..

But you can call it whatever you want.. It really doesn't matter..So, name an MMO that doesn't actually have a global cooldown. Heck, even the FPS games you claim that don't, do... it's called weapon swap animation time. This is how the devs balance weapons for FPS. They create a complicated formula that basically compares the following characteristics of a weapon to ensure balance:
Fire Rate, Damage, Range, Reload Time, Rounds/Clip, Accuracy etc. are all balanced out. Reload time is used as a balancing factor to impede weapons with large clips or high damage output, to compensate for the weapons with smaller clips to have faster reload times to ensure equal amounts of downtime is spent to cause the same amount of damage. The higher the damage dealt, the longer the time between shots (fire rate). The longer the range, the smaller the clip etc. All of these are built in global cooldowns.

To be honest, I think most of the argument in this thread is in regards to stating it's like every MMO and that it's turn based. Apparently we all have different definitions of turn based, and to compare MMOs is NEVER about turn basis, as the global cooldown you're talking about is built into EVERY MMO to create opportunity, not to perform actions, but to balance. Balance is not possible when the ONLY balancing factor is the speed of the human hand. To be quite frank, if you don't like an MMO because it's like every other MMO, then you actually just don't like MMOs... so why are you looking at SWTOR in the first place?

Zakhodit
10-12-2011, 03:59 AM
To be quite frank, if you don't like an MMO because it's like every other MMO, then you actually just don't like MMOs... so why are you looking at SWTOR in the first place?

This right here is the true topic of this thread.

The OP baffles me, and MajikMyst has talked himself into so many circles that I'm sure crops in Iowa have been damaged.

I hate cottage cheese. But I don't go onto the Cottage Cheese forums and explain to everyone there why it's such a horrible food and it should never be eaten. Nor do I debate what cottage cheese actually is or isn't.

May I suggest that if you don't like MMO's, TOR, or have liberal views on what "turn based" really means, that you take such thoughts to a different forum?

Your nit picking..

You're. As in "you are". "Your" denotes ownership.

Now that's nit picking! :thmbup1:

Snarils
10-12-2011, 08:54 AM
I don't understand the complaint about the subscription fee. 15 bucks.. really is not a lot for what you get in return.

If you go see one movie at a theatre.. you spend at least that much for 2 hours of entertainment and like someone else has pointed out.. new games for consoles are expensive and come out frequently. I know right now my sons have a few on their lists.. Saints Row 3, the next Halo game and a few others.. I will easily spend hundreds of dollars on getting those games for my kids.. then 3 months later.. they will want some other new game that retails at 60 bucks. not to mention the XBOX Live subscription (which I am happy to pay for my boys).. is 12 bucks a month and is needed to play the games online.

So to me, anyone complaining about the 15 bucks a month is using it as an excuse to not like the game.. because they don't have an income.

As far as graphics being dated... hahaha... you cannot judge this game by screenshots or the small videos you have seen. The environments, character and mob detail are some of the best I've seen and yes, I have experienced them first hand. Space (while on Rails...) is really very visually appealing. the class quests, the companions, instances are all very unique to this game and keep me engaged.

This game is very much at your own pace. There are some group quests sprinkled in here and there, but these quests are not required to complete in order to progress. your companion is enough to keep you solo.. as much as you want. some companions heal.. others tank while others are DPS. they are all very helpful. such as the inquisitor, have the tank companion couldn't be better. You can upgrade your companions equipment the same as you do your own character.

VeniVidiVicous
10-12-2011, 02:09 PM
This right here is the true topic of this thread.

The OP baffles me, and MajikMyst has talked himself into so many circles that I'm sure crops in Iowa have been damaged.

I hate cottage cheese. But I don't go onto the Cottage Cheese forums and explain to everyone there why it's such a horrible food and it should never be eaten. Nor do I debate what cottage cheese actually is or isn't.

May I suggest that if you don't like MMO's, TOR, or have liberal views on what "turn based" really means, that you take such thoughts to a different forum?

Is it really so baffling to want to see an mmorpg's combat system go in a somewhat different direction??
As I previously stated since Bioware are the company that brought us the Mass Effect series, the best combat system i've played in an rpg thus far, I was hoping that their mmo was going to be the first to break that mold. Clearly they're taking the safe,standard mmorpg combat system instead which is fine just not my own cup of tea.

I still think that the cartoonish look of the characters takes away from the game which imo has nothing to do with graphic limitations for an mmo.

Snarils
10-12-2011, 02:31 PM
Good News!

You are not required to play!!

:thmbup1:

Hallucination
10-12-2011, 02:34 PM
I hate cottage cheese. But I don't go onto the Cottage Cheese forums and explain to everyone there why it's such a horrible food and it should never be eaten. Nor do I debate what cottage cheese actually is or isn't.

I don't mean to derail this thread, but I'm pretty sure the question we're all asking ourselves now is: "Are there really cottage cheese forums?"

Darth Avlectus
10-12-2011, 08:37 PM
Cottage cheese? How about Havarti? Or goat cheese? Bree? Porvolone? Swiss? Cheddar?

Good News!

You are not required to play!!

:thmbup1:

Awesome post. (Though I must confess my interest in this game, never really having played an mmo, has risen from the initial onset. Probably out of interest more of what will happen in terms of storyline.)

I have a question: Who gives a $#*% about bigfoot?

Lynk Former
10-13-2011, 12:21 AM
I remember at first when TOR was announced my position was that I'd never end up playing this game ever because it was an MMO.

That kind of changed as I started to get more info about the Trooper class and thought "hey, it might be fun to play as a Trooper in this type of game"... the problem I had to face from there was that I had 0 experience with any type of MMO. That led me to play some Lord of the Rings Online for about a month and a half and I kind of got the jist of what an MMO is and what's involved. Was pretty entertaining but I'm not really that into The Lord of the Rings so after that little experience I uninstalled it lol.

I play a hell of a lot of other types of games and many other types of RPGs so TOR will be my first proper MMO experience... in terms of whether BioWare has been able to capture the percentage of people who don't normally play MMOs with this game... they certainly got me with TOR.

Darth Avlectus
10-13-2011, 04:29 PM
I figure it like this: if they cancelled Obsidian working on KOTOR3, they simply aren't interested. Even if they never built the MMO. (Our best bet for that I suppose is Logan23.)

All reservations aside, if this fails...well, I don't believe anyone will be making SW games anymore for both financial reasons and LA saving its own face.

So swallowing my pride, dealing in reality and not just the way I'd like things to be,
my interest is stirring because I want to see if my prediction about Revan's "rebirth" is correct. However it is unlikely I will have a new machine built in time to be a frontrunner to be first to find out the truth.

So my secondary interests would be
1) To see what has been done in general.
2) To live a main role in the SW universe. (Since Revan and the Exile are now relegated as just another part of the story)
3) possibly for the interaction.

The biggest influence:
Two friends of mine in real life are definitely going to get this game. One is not a SW buff whatsoever but as just a casual gamer is absolutely smitten with BioWare's recent games enough that he would do this game on principle alone. (Bioware, you can pat yourself on the back!)
The other is a SW buff, however is more just an avid online gamer than anything else.
Both have told me they really want me to play along with them.

If that isn't enough, here is some straw that is breaking the camel's back:
Both have separately even offered, if I preorder, to throw down on a Collector's Edition copy at best buy just for me if it meant I would play this with them.

Jae Onasi
10-13-2011, 06:19 PM
I hate cottage cheese. But I don't go onto the Cottage Cheese forums and explain to everyone there why it's such a horrible food and it should never be eaten. Nor do I debate what cottage cheese actually is or isn't.


:rofl:

@Hallucination: Here you go, the I Love Cottage Cheese forum (http://www.experienceproject.com/groups/Love-Cottage-Cheese/132810/forum).


BTW, TOR beta is serious amounts of fun.

Hallucination
10-13-2011, 06:44 PM
BTW, TOR beta is serious amounts of fun.
You know, it could be said that no amount of fun is serious.

And thanks for the link, time tell those people that fresh cheeses are for jerks. o_Q

Jae Onasi
10-13-2011, 07:36 PM
You know, it could be said that no amount of fun is serious.Oh, well, in that case, it's a hell of a lot of fun.

And thanks for the link, time tell those people that fresh cheeses are for jerks. o_Q
iknorite? Sharp cheddar ftw!

Blix
10-14-2011, 05:01 PM
If online play were free and I only had to deal with paying for the initial game itself plus future DLC/expansions then I wouldn't have an issue with TOR but hence that is the reason why I have never warmed up to MMO/MMORPGS ever since FFXI.

Zeami
10-19-2011, 03:55 PM
So i've been debating to myself whether to write this thread for a while and a recent post I read in a topic influenced me to express my opinions on TOR, so here goes:



i can assure you this was not my initial reaction.

After seeing the decieved trailer. I was thinking "OMG, they're going to continue Kotor through this game! This could be truely epic, this could actually be the first mmo that I can actually get into!"

You see I had just finished the first Mass Effect and loved it. It was an immersive experience that I really enjoyed but most importantly (to me) it was the first rpg I had played where I liked the combat system. You see i've always wanted a game with the character customisation of the kotor games without the normal rpg combat system.

So I was thinking something close to the mass effect combat system mixed with the SW:Kotor setting in an mmo might just sell me.

I presumed seeing as it was a mmo and a continuation of kotor that they wouldn't want anything too taxing on pc's in terms of graphics so I assumed they go with the look and style of the previous 2 games. (which I also happen to like)

Then it happened..

I saw a gameplay video. Not only did they not incorporate a new combat system for the mmo genre, they went a completely different direction for the visuals of the game.

The characters in this game look a lot like WoW characters to me. So anychance of me getting immersed into the game (and my potential character or characters) was gone. I always liked how the previous games looked and it genuinely surprised me that they mirrored WoW with the aesthetics here.



As far as Revan and Exile goes I knew this was going to be based around 300 years after TSL so I assumed they be dead and not too relevant to the player's experience in this game.
There are a few threads on canon/storylines within TOR and how they relate to the previous installments so I won't touch on it too much here.

I will say this though when I first heard about this I raced to my computer to find out more about this game but i've already found out enough about this game to know it won't be my cup of tea.

As a closing point, I think this game truely had the potential to break through a lot of the things that prevent certain gamers from playing mmo's. Unfortunatly this game will not be that genre-altering title I was hoping for. :(

If any of ye have different reasons for wanting to (or not wanting to) play the game i'd be intrested to hear it?

Snipped. Kinda glad there's no chance we get stuck playing together.

Cut out the personal attacks in future, please. - Astor.

Deft Aklin
10-20-2011, 01:23 AM
Is it really so baffling to want to see an mmorpg's combat system go in a somewhat different direction??
As I previously stated since Bioware are the company that brought us the Mass Effect series, the best combat system i've played in an rpg thus far, I was hoping that their mmo was going to be the first to break that mold. Clearly they're taking the safe,standard mmorpg combat system instead which is fine just not my own cup of tea.

I still think that the cartoonish look of the characters takes away from the game which imo has nothing to do with graphic limitations for an mmo.At no point did Bioware say they were redesigning the MMO combat system, except to say they were going to choreograph it as opposed to having standard animations. Honestly though, how could they redesign the combat system for an MMO and keep it competitive, fair and balanced?

As far as graphics, if you want graphics, play an FPS or RPG. MMOs are designed so millions of players on outdated PCs can all share an experience together. Graphics are ALWAYS toned down to allow for older dual cores and dated GPUs to be able to play the game and enable more people to play. In particular, those that don't own gaming rigs, the crowd that has never played an MMO before and is playing now because it's Star Wars and they were too young for SWG.

Ascended_Mike
10-23-2011, 10:47 AM
Firstly: To judge a game based on it's graphics is just ridiculous.
I honestly feel like every MMO that has tried realistic graphics has just faded away since then.

WoW's graphics are cartoony... yes. And many computers can run WoW with little to no effort. And this is one of the many reasons WoW was so successful. TOR is worth a try, shunning it even before its release based on what you've read and videos you've seen is just beyond me.

If you like star wars and you like MMOs, you should atleast try it.

Lynk Former
10-23-2011, 10:51 AM
@ Ascended_Mike: I've always felt that no matter what type of game it is, what makes a game visually is its art style and the way developers are able to use/manage the power of a machines to make a game look appealing.

I mean, to illustrate the point, all you'd have to do is look at a number of Wii games that have exceptional visuals despite the lack of grunt in the hardware to go HD and pull of extremely advanced effects.

Ascended_Mike
10-23-2011, 11:15 AM
@ Ascended_Mike: I've always felt that no matter what type of game it is, what makes a game visually is its art style and the way developers are able to use/manage the power of a machines to make a game look appealing.

I mean, to illustrate the point, all you'd have to do is look at a number of Wii games that have exceptional visuals despite the lack of grunt in the hardware to go HD and pull of extremely advanced effects.

I agree wholeheartedly with you on that point. But I think Bioware have a reputation for immersing you in a world and making everything feel believable.

I think from what i've seen so far, SW:TOR looks impressive. The cartoony visuals only lend to it's character. The original poster is refusing to play the game based on how it looks. I think that's a very stubborn take on it. I was shocked at first, as I expected it to lean towards a more realistic feel for characters, (Guild Wars is just an example i'd use) after playing kotor to death years ago.

I just think kicking it aside and not bothering with it based on the above and the combat system that you HAVEN'T tried yet is wrong.