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08-08-2010, 02:10 PM
For those of you excited by the prospect of space combat in The Old Republic, don’t get your hopes up yet. It is being rumored that the combat will be on rails, which means players will not be able to directly control their ship and it will be more of a guided experience. Many were [...]

Read the full story at starwarsmmo.net... (http://www.starwarsmmo.net/news/space-combat-may-be-on-rails/)

Hallucination
08-08-2010, 02:45 PM
It doesn't count as space if it's on rails, IMHO.

Miltiades
08-08-2010, 03:35 PM
Space reached the Industrial Age.

Ztalker
08-08-2010, 03:42 PM
Bugger. It's not a real gameplay element then, or is it?

Nedak
08-08-2010, 09:08 PM
It's a rumor.

And if it's true, I won't be playing SWTOR when it's released.


I know Bioware is a instance-whore, but screw that.

JediAthos
08-09-2010, 12:41 AM
WTF? How in the name of George Lucas could they do a SW MMO without REAL space combat? I hope to hell this isn't true...it could be a deal breaker for me if it is.

Prime
08-09-2010, 09:06 AM
I feel bad for all those sorry sods who got rid of their X-Wing series games. Upgraded X-Wing Alliance will be better than anything space related in TOR.

Ztalker
08-09-2010, 11:56 AM
I feel bad for all those sorry sods who got rid of their X-Wing series games. Upgraded X-Wing Alliance will be better than anything space related in TOR.

I sometimes start up ye old Gamecube with Rogue Squadron 2 at night, when nobody's watching. Flying my N-1 through the game at full speed doing corkscrews, loopings...shooting Tie Interceptors out of the sky. *sigh*

I had hopes TOR would be something like this. But if this rumor is true...*sigh again*

Nedak
08-09-2010, 12:49 PM
For those that dislike it, post in this thread and vote:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3825172&posted=1#post3825172

Hallucination
08-09-2010, 02:22 PM
For those that dislike it, post in this thread and vote:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3825172&posted=1#post3825172
The good news is that in the OP of that thread Dahlberg said:
UPDATE [1]: To clarify, Space Combat is not a Turret Shooter (this is probably obvious after seeing the screenshot but some people were mentioning it in the other thread).

I feel better about this now. o_Q

Miltiades
08-09-2010, 02:40 PM
For those that dislike it, post in this thread and vote:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3825172&posted=1#post3825172 The more interesting fact in that thread, however, comes from this quote: "They've admitted that you can jump to your death on coruscant, if you really want to...so definitely no invisible walls".

In all honesty, I don't ask much for space combat, after all, that's not what this game is about. The screenshot does seem to suggest something in the lines of Battlefront space combat. I'm not too bothered with the fact it'd seemingly be singleplayer only, apparently, PvP space combat could happen eventually. In the end, I think this is something you need to see in action before really knowing how it'll work.

JediAthos
08-09-2010, 03:01 PM
For those that dislike it, post in this thread and vote:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3825172&posted=1#post3825172

God that thread is mindnumbing to read...but I did post my two cents and vote for what its worth.

Miltiades
08-09-2010, 03:38 PM
God that thread is mindnumbing to read That's basically how it is in the whole SWTOR community. Hope you have fun in-game!

Nedak
08-09-2010, 05:00 PM
The good news is that in the OP of that thread Dahlberg said:

I feel better about this now. o_Q

I don't.

For a Tunnel Shooter you have to stay on a certain path, which means I have to stay on the path...which takes the fun out of space IMO.
In all honesty, I don't ask much for space combat, after all, that's not what this game is about. The screenshot does seem to suggest something in the lines of Battlefront space combat. I'm not too bothered with the fact it'd seemingly be singleplayer only, apparently, PvP space combat could happen eventually. In the end, I think this is something you need to see in action before really knowing how it'll work.
No, based on the information you won't be able to control the flight path of your ship.
But you will be restricted to one path...so that stuff wouldn't really work out.

Miltiades
08-09-2010, 05:13 PM
No, based on the information you won't be able to control the flight path of your ship.
But you will be restricted to one path...so that stuff wouldn't really work out. I have difficulty imagining this concept. What exactly is there left to do during a space combat sequence when you don't control the ship. Shoot and hope it hits? So a turret game after all?

Nedak
08-09-2010, 07:18 PM
Sort of like a 3rd person shooter.

darthfergie
08-10-2010, 11:44 AM
I have difficulty imagining this concept. What exactly is there left to do during a space combat sequence when you don't control the ship. Shoot and hope it hits? So a turret game after all?

Sounds more like SW: Rebel Assault (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Rebel_Assault). Now we're really getting retro.

Dunno. Not enough information for now, but I think a single player restricted space combat isn't fleshed out enough. Bioware wants so much polish on everything, but right now this area is obviously lacking some polish. If it stays on a single player track I am more inclined to just remove the feature entirely.

The potential for a battlefront style of space PvP is just too tantalizing. To be left with more of a single player mini-game is a little depressing.

If you're going to do an MMO, do a freaking MMO.

JediAthos
08-10-2010, 01:48 PM
I agree 100%...seems like a cop out to me by Bioware. You can say the game isn't space focused all you want...but I don't understand how you can have a Star Wars game without full fledged free roaming space content.

Prime
08-10-2010, 02:55 PM
That's basically how it is in the whole SWTOR community. Hope you have fun in-game!I will, because I will be playing solo and with friends only. :)

Just not in space, apparently. :)

Alexrd
08-11-2010, 04:48 AM
Check this out:

Page 1 (http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/Imperialagent0110/SWTOR/007.jpg)
Page 2 (http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/Imperialagent0110/SWTOR/006.jpg)
Page 3 (http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/Imperialagent0110/SWTOR/002.jpg)
Page 4 (http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/Imperialagent0110/SWTOR/001.jpg)
Page 5 (http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/Imperialagent0110/SWTOR/003.jpg)
Page 6 (http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/Imperialagent0110/SWTOR/004.jpg)
Page 7 (http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/Imperialagent0110/SWTOR/005.jpg)

jrrtoken
08-11-2010, 08:12 AM
This an unfortunate surprise, indeed; I was expecting an environment like Battlefront, where, well, you actually had a full six degrees-of-freedom. Now we have StarFox in Star Wars, which by itself might've been OK, but when part of an MMO, it's no better than KotOR's turret simulation; a cheap minigame. How do they expect to even implement PvP on a 2D constrained grid with a thirdperson perspective? It just doesn't seem logical.

Why people are lauding this, I don't know; unless everyone suddenly became content with arcade timewasters like Rebel Assault, then we're all doomed. But, hey, I get to fly in an invisible tunnel piloting Slave I... 3000 years before it was even developed. :indif:

Alexrd
08-11-2010, 09:00 AM
But, hey, I get to fly in an invisible tunnel piloting Slave I... 3000 years before it was even developed. :indif:

Yeah, I didn't got that Slave I thing, too. Stupid idea to put it on the Old Republic era.

JediAthos
08-11-2010, 09:01 AM
I have no idea why anyone thinks this is a good idea. I said before, I think its a cop out, and unfortunately I doubt that any forum posts or complaints will make Bioware change their minds. I think if they'd asked what the fans (i.e. their customer base and potential subscribers) wanted they sure as heck wouldn't have said a "tunnel shooter" for space combat.

Maybe I'm wrong and I'm sure somebody will try to tell me that this is the best thing since sliced bread, but I still call it lazy development and something to try to placate fans.

logan23
08-11-2010, 09:54 AM
I believe what happen is this,,,,they discover to do the proper mmo space combat they would not make thier launch date so they decided if we do a single player one and make it as fun as possible it will give space combat for TOR but it will not define true mmo spacebattle which will be done right and placed in as expansion. The pvp one should be sometbing different, this is a sideorder till the expansion. To place a real mmo pvp version im assuming it would push thier release date back close to a year.

Tommycat
08-11-2010, 09:55 AM
As for the ships, Those were guesses by the magazine, not the actual ships. Except the Sith and Jedi ones.

Well they're going back to old school space. Almost like the old Star Wars arcade game...

Miltiades
08-11-2010, 03:23 PM
But, hey, I get to fly in an invisible tunnel piloting Slave I... 3000 years before it was even developed. :indif: What'd you expect? We already knew we would get to fly a Tie Fighter and X-Wing 3000 years before anyone had ever seen one. Besides, after we got Boba Fett, Clone Troopers and Darth Vader in TOR, this shouldn't surprise you.

adamqd
08-11-2010, 05:26 PM
Boba Fett, Clone Troopers and Darth Vader in TOR, this shouldn't surprise you.

Lol, I'm actually warming up to tOR, but this^^ is so definitely true hehe

SW01
08-11-2010, 08:31 PM
Personally, I haven't been fond at all of the notion of limiting certain species to crtain classes, now it seems to be the case for ships as well? Granted it is not perhaps as bad as the former, but...

The designs really aren't surprising. That the Ebon Hawk type is not more similar to the Millenium Falcon is a shock. :xp:

darthfergie
08-12-2010, 10:57 AM
The designs really aren't surprising. That the Ebon Hawk type is not more similar to the Millenium Falcon is a shock. :xp:

I point you back to Tommycat's post:
"As for the ships, Those were guesses by the magazine, not the actual ships. Except the Sith and Jedi ones."

The article itself has a whole ton of speculation in it that probably did more to misinform than to help.

dswtor
08-13-2010, 07:44 PM
I dont think its going to be on rails. i think its just going to be semi instanced space. eventually they probably will have free roam space.

darthfergie
08-13-2010, 11:41 PM
I dont think its going to be on rails. i think its just going to be semi instanced space. eventually they probably will have free roam space.

Hopefully if they take the user backlash into account we'll get free roam space. Forums all over the place haven't been too friendly to their announcement it would be a tunnel shooter.

Bioware has been pretty interested in listening to their users so far and that early announcement was a good testing of the waters. They've pretty much received the mandate that a tunnel shooter isn't good enough. We shall see.

Tommycat
08-14-2010, 11:40 AM
I'm actually more disappointed that it's single player. One of the best things about JTL was being able to work as a team to take things out. Figuring out tactics to take out a corvette solo was great, but getting a group together to enter Deep Space and "patrolling" the area was awesome.

Though I really would prefer free roaming... I like the choice of saying "Whoops I didn't bring enough firepower... Lemme run outta range, and take em on one at a time."

Alexrd
08-17-2010, 11:25 AM
Yep, it's on rails. (http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/space-combat)

Rinku
08-17-2010, 11:42 AM
So we are getting a glorified star fox..........

If you look closely you see most of the ships, which are not that creative....

darthfergie
08-17-2010, 01:22 PM
Yep.

It looks slick, but you can definitely tell it's star fox style rails.

However as much as I like my star fox, one of my favorite things to do on Star Fox 64 was the practice mode that was 360 degree free flight. :indif:

adamqd
08-17-2010, 01:33 PM
I dont want to bring up SWG again lol, but the thing that made Space (And in fact ground) boring to me was that there was like 1,000,000 sq light-years of Space... and 14 Players, it was mind-numbingly boring, like real life, but boring. Sometimes you just gotta let game designers show you the hot spots :)

Alexrd
08-17-2010, 03:01 PM
I think the problem is that they not only show you the hot spots, but they force you to be on the freeway.

TKA-001
08-17-2010, 03:13 PM
I dont want to bring up SWG again lol, but the thing that made Space (And in fact ground) boring to me was that there was like 1,000,000 sq light-years of Space... and 14 Players, it was mind-numbingly boring, like real life, but boring. Sometimes you just gotta let game designers show you the hot spots :)
SWG's space combat was hideously bad for reasons completely unrelated to it being "off the rails".

adamqd
08-17-2010, 03:17 PM
I disagree, the ships, the level of detail, POB's, were great, there was just nothing of any interest to do in a vast sand box.. Now putting it on Rails will not necessarily solve all problems SWG had with space, but it will have to be better than SWG.

and by the way, please explain what was so bad and unrelated to being "Off the rails", or are you just happy being of the opinion that I'm wrong lol :)

Alexrd
08-17-2010, 03:20 PM
I disagree, the ships, the level of detail, POB's, were great, there was just nothing of any interest to do in a vast sand box..

This. Space is one of the best things SWG has, and the only big problem is the lack of people on those huge maps.

Rinku
08-17-2010, 04:03 PM
Yep.

It looks slick, but you can definitely tell it's star fox style rails.

However as much as I like my star fox, one of my favorite things to do on Star Fox 64 was the practice mode that was 360 degree free flight. :indif:

Don't get me wrong I like Star Fox, but if I want Star Fox style space combat I will play Star Fox. Now maybe this will be a bit more complex, but from the video I am not expecting much.

Nedak
08-17-2010, 04:17 PM
I disagree, the ships, the level of detail, POB's, were great, there was just nothing of any interest to do in a vast sand box.. Now putting it on Rails will not necessarily solve all problems SWG had with space, but it will have to be better than SWG.

and by the way, please explain what was so bad and unrelated to being "Off the rails", or are you just happy being of the opinion that I'm wrong lol :)
Tell that to the people that play EvE.

adamqd
08-17-2010, 05:05 PM
I have no idea what eve is or how it relates to my comments, so I would be hesitant to tell them anything :D

Nedak
08-17-2010, 05:11 PM
You're saying that Sandbox Space games are boring...correct?

adamqd
08-17-2010, 05:13 PM
nope, that sand box space games with no content or players are :)

Its like the ground game too, with enough players its bearable, but I reactivated a Toon on swg a couple of days back for the **** of it... There were 2 people in the PVP zone, an AFK entertainer in the "Busiest" cantina... You see, the company rely on us to make the entertainment, thats why I champion Bioware for not leaving everything in our hands, because if theres not 80 people in the same area as you, we still have something to do :)

TKA-001
08-17-2010, 05:18 PM
I disagree, the ships, the level of detail, POB's, were great, there was just nothing of any interest to do in a vast sand box.. Now putting it on Rails will not necessarily solve all problems SWG had with space, but it will have to be better than SWG.

and by the way, please explain what was so bad and unrelated to being "Off the rails", or are you just happy being of the opinion that I'm wrong lol :)
With pleasure lol. :thmbup1: Space combat in SWG was a disgraceful drag in all of my experiences in it. Solo missions were painfully slow and unexciting, despite the admittedly lovely graphics. Once I got behind an NPC fighter, it was nothing but slowly flying in a circle, hammering away at its shields for an obscenely long period of time before it finally exploded, and I could repeat until the mission was complete. Even on the few occasions I was able to team up with other guys for these missions, it was the same experience - except larger.

It wasn't anything like the X-wing/TIE Fighter series, one of a few game series that epitomizes ideal space combat simulation to date. Xw/Tf enemy AI was intelligent (unlike the slow straight line-flying chumps in Rogue Squadron II and onward), different starships had significantly different capabilities, and combat was fast-paced and fluid. It was surprising to me that SWG wasn't just as good, since as an RPG, it came with the ability to customize your ship and whatnot.

Although starships in Galaxies were apparently customizable up to their ears, I never observed that making any real difference. The only thing that seemed to make a difference in who would win at space battles was your level. The main reason enemy fighters took so bloody long for me to kill seemed to be at least half based on the fact that my level of experience in the pilot skill tree was not significantly higher than them. And, as mentioned earlier, combat consisted of very little other than flying around in a circle after something until it dies.

Epitomizing the sheer ludicrousness of the whole thing was the time I went with a bunch of guildmates on a little adventure aboard a VT-49 Decimator one of them owned. For the uninformed, a Decimator was one of the largest ships available at that time in the game (and it might still be), bristling with weapon ports, beautifully spacious on the inside, and of course pimped out with custom parts to the max. I was a gunner. We took this warship into one of the space PvP zones (because it makes perfect sense that Rebel and Imperial players can only fight in a certain star system), blew up some AI fighters, and had a good time doing it. You can imagine my excitement when we spotted an enemy player-controlled B-wing enter the area. You can also imagine my Bull**** Meter going off the scale when said B-wing demolished our ship in three shots.

As far as I know, space combat in SWG has never had any significant updates since then, except for the addition of prequel-era ships for advertisement purposes and the like. So yeah, SWG's space combat is bad because it's boring, repetitive, and shamelessly unbalanced. Whether it's on rails or not is a different can of meat and potatoes entirely.

adamqd
08-17-2010, 05:26 PM
I concur :)

Nedak
08-17-2010, 05:33 PM
nope, that sand box space games with no content or players are :)

Its like the ground game too, with enough players its bearable, but I reactivated a Toon on swg a couple of days back for the **** of it... There were 2 people in the PVP zone, an AFK entertainer in the "Busiest" cantina... You see, the company rely on us to make the entertainment, thats why I champion Bioware for not leaving everything in our hands, because if theres not 80 people in the same area as you, we still have something to do :)

Misread your post! Carry on.

:)

JediAthos
08-17-2010, 07:14 PM
I'm seeing some love for this type of combat...and that's all well and good, but you'll not be seeing any from me. After seeing the video I like it less than before I saw the video. It reminds me of shooters from ten years ago except in 3D. In my humble opinion Bioware dropped the ball on this one...this type of stuff belongs in the Clone Wars Adventures game..not TOR,

The-Seraphim
08-17-2010, 07:58 PM
Omg! its the Lego Star Wars Battle over Coruscant only in high tech graphics!

-_-

DAWUSS
08-18-2010, 08:59 PM
Don't get me wrong I like Star Fox, but if I want Star Fox style space combat I will play Star Fox. Now maybe this will be a bit more complex, but from the video I am not expecting much.

Well, SWG JTL was more like Wing Commander, so...