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Arannor
09-05-2010, 05:26 AM
The Jedi Civil War left many unanswered questions. In the difficult days following the showdown between Darth Revan and Darth Malak, the Jedi Order struggled to survive, leaving little time for investigations. Redeemed as a Jedi, Revan traveled into deep space in search of a mysterious evil. We now know that the source of this evil was the reconstituted Sith Empire, but that solves only a portion of the mystery…

Watch the teaser video (http://swtor.com/media/trailers/mysteries-knights-old-republic) shown at the Penny Arcade Expo (PAX) for a glimpse at what may be revealed as you journey through Star Wars™: The Old Republic™.

Revan's rebirth? Is this and the shadow towards the end hinting that Revan is still some how alive?

Miltiades
09-05-2010, 10:00 AM
Apart from the uneasy feeling I get when Revans rebirth is being hinted at, the really interesting thing in this video came from the Emperors involvement. Not only is he giving direct instructions to an Imperial soldier (something I'm sure doesn't happen a lot), you can also interpret that as a sign of fear by the Emperor, fear for Revan.

Anyway, I'm not sure I like the idea of Revan being alive (if he is), but hell, there's an Emperor running around being 1,000 years of age. Besides, perhaps we should've seen this coming anyway. Revan being a god and all that...

Hurray for HK-47, though. That's not the same voice actor playing him, right?

logan23
09-05-2010, 12:17 PM
From the definition:

• REBIRTH (noun)
The noun REBIRTH has 4 senses:

1. after death the soul begins a new cycle of existence in another human body
2. a second or new birth
3. the revival of learning and culture
4. a spiritual enlightenment causing a person to lead a new life

This means Revan could also be dead but after the events of kotor he had a rebirth- this could be the Revan we play as in the kotor1 game since before that happen he was Jedi and Sith.

I doubt he is alive but maybe a Force Ghost. As a Force Ghost he could interact with the players and give info and history but the developers will not have to worry about the player wanting Revan to join their side or fight with him. This also allows a Force Ghost Revan to give inforation on the Emperor which could range from the time back 300 years ago which non of the Sith Empire would be alive to know or experienced.

Just my 2 cents

Logan

adamqd
09-05-2010, 12:57 PM
I still get pissed that Revan is still thought of as anything other than a Playable Character, therefore non existent outside of a name and basic canon game story outline... Its fanboys that have made him a Gary Stu, and now BW are playing on this. He must Stay Dead for the sake of KotOR I.

Miltiades
09-05-2010, 01:52 PM
@logan23: Possible, but the video does imply that this doesn't mean his mindwipe by the Council. I don't like the idea of Revan being a Force ghost used as library by the players. If he does make an appearance, I'd want him to be more involved than just being there as an information center.

I still get pissed that Revan is still thought of as anything other than a Playable Character, therefore non existent outside of a name and basic canon game story outline... Its fanboys that have made him a Gary Stu, and now BW are playing on this. He must Stay Dead for the sake of KotOR I. He is more than a playable character. Revan's character has been further fleshed out in KotOR II, the KotOR comics and that Darth bane novel. And probably some other stuff.

Zerimar Nyliram
09-05-2010, 01:55 PM
I agree [Edit: with Logan]. Revan has always been overrated. I mean, granted, the big plot twist involving him in the first game was a stroke of genius, and this is probably what propelled him to godlike status among fans, with good reason. But still, milking Revan for all he's worth to appease the fans is just wrong, and it will surely cheapen his character. They've already retconned him into having been the inspiration for Darth Bane's Rule of Two (in a book that I actually like very much, but it was still a fanboy's wet dream), and now they're having him be alive after half a millennium? Star Wars is chock full of characters surviving for hundreds or thousands of years. Enough already! This game already has one character like that, and one is more than enough.

If they really want to bring Revan back and show what became of him, there's a better solution: make KOTOR 3.

Also, until I hear otherwise, I'm willing to bet this is LucasArts' doing rather than BioWare's, and the latter will be the ones to take the fall for it if it turns out to be crap. LA has and still continues to tarnish Obsidian's good name for what happened to The Sith Lords, which was the result of LA's own poor judgment.

Ogriv83
09-05-2010, 02:15 PM
I'm not sure I like the idea of Revan reborn. I think it will ruin his legacy to be a force ghost or anything else. Holocron's are a good way of using him in stories such as in Path of Destruction but I'm don't want to see him having a major impact on other sith or jedi actions.

Ztalker
09-05-2010, 02:41 PM
Revan wasn't overrated.

The reason why people love him is because they are him. He has NEVER been unmasked.
When I saw that shadowy figure go for the mask, I instantly flash-backed to my 'first' playthrough. Making him an NPC is like seeing yourself back in the game. And because he'll probably wear the mask, your Kotor 1 face could be behind it...

This could be the 'solution' for Revans fate I always dreamed of. I always found it strange it took the Sith so long to rebuild...almost as if someone was hindering them...or perhaps the Emperor was crapping his pants.

Maybe the Rebirth isn't literal. Perhaps (and I'm guessing) it is a point where light-side alignment Sith and dark-side alignment Jedi will experience something. A Yoda-cave sequence or something...

Or he's alive and kicking, frozen in carbonite (carbonite Sith/Jedi army from Empire anyone) waiting for a chance to kick some Sith Emperor ass.

logan23
09-05-2010, 02:47 PM
@logan23: Possible, but the video does imply that this doesn't mean his mindwipe by the Council. I don't like the idea of Revan being a Force ghost used as library by the players. If he does make an appearance, I'd want him to be more involved than just being there as an information center.


I re-listen to the lines in the video and I'm almost 100 percent they mean re-birth as when he was re-birth through the council/mind wipe. They talk about him being Sith and Jedi and that was Revan during the Mando wars/Jedi and the Jedi Civil war/Sith. After would be the version you played in kotor1. In kotor1 he was both and neither....he was something new.

Logan

adamqd
09-05-2010, 03:03 PM
Revan wasn't overrated.

The reason why people love him is because they are him

My Point exactly.

To explain my previous Post, I dont think he sucks or that he is unimportant, but Treating him like this legendary Character is like talking of yourself in the 3rd person lol, those traits and feats are yours... unless you were a Darkside female of course hehe

Astor
09-05-2010, 03:15 PM
I hope Revan is dead, and this is just an interesting quest.

Ztalker
09-05-2010, 03:18 PM
I hope Revan is dead, and this is just an interesting quest.

^It could be that 'touching' the mask will have the player experience somekind of vision of the past...Revan's mask did this before in the Kotor comics...

adamqd
09-05-2010, 03:37 PM
Don the Mask of legend!! (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100312065444/starwars/images/0/00/Revanfindsmaskblank.JPG)

Ztalker
09-05-2010, 04:16 PM
Don the Mask of legend!! (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100312065444/starwars/images/0/00/Revanfindsmaskblank.JPG)

I hope players can't don it...there will be a sick rush for the Mask of +1 awesomeness

Miltiades
09-05-2010, 04:38 PM
I re-listen to the lines in the video and I'm almost 100 percent they mean re-birth as when he was re-birth through the council/mind wipe. They talk about him being Sith and Jedi and that was Revan during the Mando wars/Jedi and the Jedi Civil war/Sith. After would be the version you played in kotor1. In kotor1 he was both and neither....he was something new. The line by one of the PC's (I think) "What do you mean, reborn? What was Revans final fate?" does imply otherwise.

Zerimar Nyliram
09-05-2010, 04:46 PM
Maybe donning the mask actually turns your character into Revan, Jim Carry style. ;)

logan23
09-05-2010, 05:49 PM
The line by one of the PC's (I think) "What do you mean, reborn? What was Revans final fate?" does imply otherwise.

Actually its two questions.
One is asking the NPC to define what reborn means?

The second question what is Revan's final fate.

NPC can explain what happen to Revan's mind etc...then go onto what happen to Revan after kotor1.

Reavn's reprogramming of his mind is a form of rebirth..since the Revan that was in the Mando wars and the Start of the Jedi civil war/Sith side,....is not the same person as the Revan after...The Jedi council did a job on his mind and we can only guess how much did they do to it on purpose or due to his injuries from Malak's attack.

TKA-001
09-05-2010, 06:12 PM
...complex is drawing power from reactors across this sector.
I'm not aware of any Star Wars technology that allows power plants to transmit energy across countless light-years of space without the use of cables.

So Revan might be alive again somehow, but is likely to have a very weakly-written copout of a return (if any). I'm dully surprised.

HK-47's back? Sod off, Bioware. It's been five years out-of-universe and three hundred in-universe. He isn't cool or interesting anymore.

Miltiades
09-05-2010, 06:17 PM
Actually its two questions.
One is asking the NPC to define what reborn means?

The second question what is Revan's final fate.

The guy asking it says it in a manner that it links both questions. As if Revans final fate will answer what the rebirth means. It's pretty obvious that's what it suggests, with the shadow looming over the mask just after the guy asked those questions.

Zerimar Nyliram
09-05-2010, 06:21 PM
HK-47's back? Sod off, Bioware. It's been five years out-of-universe and three hundred in-universe. He isn't cool or interesting anymore.

Actually, according to Galaxies, he's still around at the time of the movies. But yeah, I agree: let a memorable character rest in peace already.

Arannor
09-06-2010, 12:37 AM
Revan could have done something to himself after discovering the true sith, there are several methods in the EU that would work in keeping him alive (carbonite, oubliette, essence transfer).

Me personally, I like the idea of Revan still being alive, if that is what they are implying. Such power to stay alive is not just limited to one person per era.

Ztalker
09-06-2010, 10:51 AM
I'm not aware of any Star Wars technology that allows power plants to transmit energy across countless light-years of space without the use of cables.

So Revan might be alive again somehow, but is likely to have a very weakly-written copout of a return (if any). I'm dully surprised.

HK-47's back? Sod off, Bioware. It's been five years out-of-universe and three hundred in-universe. He isn't cool or interesting anymore.

It got me wondering as well. Did any of you find the look of that 'power plant' a bit Star-Forge like? Maybe we'll learn about that technology too...

I don't see the Revan and HK problems though. If they give Revan the Arthas treatment (tons of respect, awesome storyline, keeping the character intact) they both could work.
I think HK doesn't like the Jedi one bit and could be an ideal asset for non-force using Imperial characters. Maybe as a quest-giver, weapons trainer, skills trainer (how to efficiently kill Jedi) etc.
And for Revan...I would find it cool that, if he's brought back, he stays alive as well. So that it matters...

Miltiades
09-06-2010, 01:00 PM
Don't know what the fuss is about regarding to HK-47. It's BioWare's character, so obviously they'll be staying true to the character (though I'd very much like him to be more of the philosopher he was in KotOR II). HK-47 is still cool and is probably going to be more interesting than every other character in TOR.

300 years in-universe is a lot, but look at Legacy: Artoo is still rolling in that comic, which makes him about 170 years old. Besides, ancient stuff doesn't mean it can't pose a threat. Look at those ancient droids in the ruins on Dantooine in KotOR I: it's thousands of years old and still posing a threat.

adamqd
09-06-2010, 01:16 PM
It got me wondering as well. Did any of you find the look of that 'power plant' a bit Star-Forge like?


Absolutely, The first scan of the plant made me immediately think of the Star Forge

Ztalker
09-06-2010, 05:28 PM
I went ahead and found this article on Wook:

Link..not the Zelda one..just a link. (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Carbonite_Sith_Army)

Force of Corruption ended with the Discovery of this Star Wars 'Terracotta' army. The in-game files showed logo's similar to the Star Forge around the place (the logo of Revans Empire).

Maybe Bioware is actually tying all loose ends they can find together?
I like the mysticism surrounding the Revan reborn thing...

DAWUSS
09-06-2010, 05:38 PM
Revan's final fate: Killed by the Plot Hammer and Retcon Gun

Astor
09-06-2010, 07:01 PM
Maybe Bioware is actually tying all loose ends they can find together?


If that's the case, I hope that they are at least making sure that the ends they tie together at least match each other in some way, otherwise it's going to get real messy.

Prime
09-08-2010, 11:00 AM
Please don't bring him back 300 years later!!

Ztalker
09-08-2010, 01:46 PM
Please don't bring him back 300 years later!!

299 would've been allright? ;)
But seriously...I have faith that Bioware can pull up a good, epic, awesome explanation about it all.
I mean...on Revan's 'To do (because I rock) list' only 'Outlive that nagging Carth' thing was the only one left open. That he went to far with it is something else...

logan23
09-08-2010, 10:56 PM
The biggest pit fall with Revan being alive is that we all played as him and if bioware does something that we felt as Revan we would not do there is a chance we will disconnect with the character. This can be done but its touchy.

Wither Revan is alive or dead Bioware knows they are pushing their focus on the new characters which will be part of this grand epic . Revan and the Exile parts in the TOR game will help bring us back to kotor and connect the games but Bioware knows not to depend on Revan or Exile alone. The reason for doing TOR is to allow freedom for Bioware to create a new epic story without being binded by the other kotor games.

What ever happens with Revan it has to be done well or it would be batter not to include him.

Arannor
09-09-2010, 12:48 AM
The biggest pit fall with Revan being alive is that we all played as him and if bioware does something that we felt as Revan we would not do there is a chance we will disconnect with the character. This can be done but its touchy.

They could have a questionnaire right before you take the mission that would ask you what certain choices you made as Revan, and then the TOR story line of Revan would be unique for every player.

TKA-001
09-09-2010, 10:36 AM
They could have a questionnaire right before you take the mission that would ask you what certain choices you made as Revan, and then the TOR story line of Revan would be unique for every player.
...causing a catastrophic time paradox since it's a multiplayer game. Way to go, Bioware.

logan23
09-09-2010, 08:24 PM
...causing a catastrophic time paradox since it's a multiplayer game. Way to go, Bioware.

I agree that is just not possible with MMOs without messing up plot points.

I'm confident that Bioware will deal with Revan in a proper way that helps with the lore wither he is alive dead, ghost, etc.:)

Arannor
09-10-2010, 12:20 AM
I agree that is just not possible with MMOs without messing up plot points.

I'm not experienced in MMOs, could you explain how it would mess up plot points?

Ztalker
09-10-2010, 11:01 AM
I'm not experienced in MMOs, could you explain how it would mess up plot points?

For example, Star Wars Galaxies takes place in 2-3 ABY.
And, because EVERYONE can be a Jedi (with far too little cool alternatives) you have the Tatooine from the movies overflown with Jedi. It breaks the total atmosphere of the movies (which it tried to copy). And since they dragged every movie character ever into the game, it becomes...silly.

Everyone starting mission has Han Solo in it. Just because he is Han Solo. And people like him.

On the other hand (if you have some experience with the Warcraft franchise) there is WoW. It starts where Warcraft 3 ended. Almost every mission in that game is referenced. Characters from there only appear where you expect them and left them in the previous game. It's all done with respect.

I think TKA is afraid of a Galaxies-esque catastrophe where people casually raid Revan, his zombie-comrade Malak and loot his Mask, armor and saber. After which the entire Imperial capital is overflown with Revan look-alikes.

I personally think Bioware won't do that. However, Lucasarts is there too...

Jeff
09-10-2010, 11:24 AM
I definitely hope it's not a situation where you can actually get his equipment. Since people are talking about WoW, that would be like Arthas dropping his armor and helmet. Eventually everyone would have it and it would look ridiculous.

adamqd
09-10-2010, 11:41 AM
Exactamoondo, there has to be a distance and respect given to KotOR Characters and Historic events, MMO's cannot have SPRPG Plots when everyone on earth can do it... its gonna show if Bioware can avoid SWG's failures.

TKA-001
09-10-2010, 11:46 AM
I think TKA is afraid of a Galaxies-esque catastrophe where people casually raid Revan, his zombie-comrade Malak and loot his Mask, armor and saber. After which the entire Imperial capital is overflown with Revan look-alikes.

I personally think Bioware won't do that. However, Lucasarts is there too...
If they did that, I'd die laughing.

What I was getting at was the implausibility of having the "backstory" of Revan being up to the player, since there are bound to be many players at once.

jonathan7
09-22-2010, 03:58 PM
I really don't understand why Bioware had to go anywhere near Revan, as they may as well have set TOR just after TSL instead of 300 years afterward. Personally I'd like the Emperor to have killed Revan, but perhaps that's just me and my wish for all the fanboys to have to accept that there is someone more powerful than them Revan in universe.

I also don't see why Bioware actually needed to give away alignment or gender of Revan, although TBH if your playing as a different character; Revan's "canon" alignment doesn't actually matter in the slightest...

I am firmly on the side of it sucking totally if Revan was still alive 300 years later I'm not a fan of the Emporer being ridiculously old...

redrob41
09-23-2010, 04:25 PM
4. a spiritual enlightenment causing a person to lead a new life

I re-listen to the lines in the video and I'm almost 100 percent they mean re-birth as when he was re-birth through the council/mind wipe. They talk about him being Sith and Jedi and that was Revan during the Mando wars/Jedi and the Jedi Civil war/Sith. After would be the version you played in kotor1. In kotor1 he was both and neither....he was something new.

I agree, this seems the most likely meaning of "rebirth".

The guy asking it says it in a manner that it links both questions. As if Revans final fate will answer what the rebirth means. It's pretty obvious that's what it suggests, with the shadow looming over the mask just after the guy asked those questions.

I think that the guy asking the questions may be drawing his own conclusions, and connecting the dots in his mind, but that doesn't mean that he is connecting them correctly. Events may have panned out differntly than he is assuming. After all, he is asking questions, not stating facts.

As for the shadow over Revan's mask, that could just as easily be a TOR NPC or even your playable character.

^It could be that 'touching' the mask will have the player experience somekind of vision of the past...Revan's mask did this before in the Kotor comics...

The first few lines of the video say "Upon its completion, Revan sealed a mysterious cargo inside". And later: "After all these years, we'll finally learn what secrets Revan left behind". This sounds an artifact to me, which could be wearable loot or maybe vision granting item.

It got me wondering as well. Did any of you find the look of that 'power plant' a bit Star-Forge like? Maybe we'll learn about that technology too...

I thought that too. I even took another look at the room, and above the door at the back of the room, there is a design structure that looks a lot like the exterior of the Star Forge itself. At the very least, this is visual connection to establish mood. It also has a connection to the Infinite Empire Symbol (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:Infinite_Empire.svg) and the Sith Logo (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:Revanchist_Sith.svg) (without the circle).
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/391/starforgemaybe.th.jpg (http://img831.imageshack.us/i/starforgemaybe.jpg/)

Arannor
10-13-2010, 07:00 AM
I found this on darthhater.com, I guess some one was using this image to point out the similarities between Revan's backside and the back side of an unknown sith from the Timeline 6: Onslaught of The Sith Empire. See for your self:

http://darthhater.com/uploads/blog_images/6459/revanre.jpg

I know this doesn't prove anything but it's still fun to speculate:xp: