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captmorgan72
10-30-2010, 01:42 PM
Just finished Force Unleashed 2 and I am amazed at all the negative reviews by both players and game reviewers. I really loved this sequel for several reasons. The improved graphics and effects is very nice and the story is thought provoking. Yes, it is much shorter than the original but oh well. The whole time you are left wondering if Starkiller is really a clone. There are moments in the game when Starkiller has flashbacks that seem to suggest he is not and then other times you think he must be. Kota never really believes he is.
I like how Vader used General Grievous as a sort of template for his Terror Troopers. It defiantly set things up for a third installment though.

MajinMikeyX
11-01-2010, 03:31 AM
Agreed. I honestly don't know why people complain about the story so much. In my honest opinion, it's MUCH better than the Clone Wars animated series story(which I think is quite stupid) or the Yuuzhan Vong or the Solo twins adventures. The TFU franchise, while it's not what KotOR or Jedi Knight or Battlefront was back in their time, it's definitely the most promising Lucasarts game of the current time.

Ctrl Alt Del
11-01-2010, 03:06 PM
In my honest opinion, it's MUCH better than the Clone Wars animated series storyThat's not much of an achievement.

The TFU franchise, while it's not what KotOR or Jedi Knight or Battlefront was back in their time, it's definitely the most promising Lucasarts game of the current time.I thought it was TOR.

And even if we ignore it what else does LA have running? A couple of CW-based children games? Again, it's hardly a feat.

MajinMikeyX
11-01-2010, 04:02 PM
Like I said, that's my OPINION, and many others as well. Then there are also the many who don't like it.

I kinda meant in the now, TOR isn't out yet but no doubt it'll be the next best thing from Lucasarts, and hopefully it will set the standards for what comes out after it.

Prime
11-01-2010, 04:18 PM
In my honest opinion, it's MUCH better than the Clone Wars animated series story(which I think is quite stupid) Actually, I think the CW stories and show in general have improved greatly as it has moved along.

Astor
11-01-2010, 04:43 PM
The TFU franchise, while it's not what KotOR or Jedi Knight or Battlefront was back in their time, it's definitely the most promising Lucasarts game of the current time.

I hate to sound like a killjoy/troll, but it surely couldn't have been that promising if the sequel was cancelled and all the staff were sacked.

Alexrd
11-01-2010, 04:51 PM
Actually, I think the CW stories and show in general have improved greatly as it has moved along.

And are way better storywise than TFUII, which isn't much of an achievement. :p

MajinMikeyX
11-01-2010, 08:36 PM
I hate to sound like a killjoy/troll, but it surely couldn't have been that promising if the sequel was cancelled and all the staff were sacked.

http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2010/10/29/star-wars-the-force-unleashed-3-possible-lucasarts-still-figuring-it-out.htm


And are way better storywise than TFUII, which isn't much of an achievement. :p

No. "Ahsoka Tano" says it all.

Alexrd
11-01-2010, 09:16 PM
No. "Ahsoka Tano" says it all.

I don't want to start an argument here, but the series (as the title says) is not about her, although her story arc is within the series. Anyway, she is as much a Mary Sue as Starkiller, so...

Ctrl Alt Del
11-01-2010, 11:31 PM
Actually, I think the CW stories and show in general have improved greatly as it has moved along.I probably dropped it way before that stage.

Endorenna
11-01-2010, 11:49 PM
No. "Ahsoka Tano" says it all.

Actually, she's improved a lot. See the last episode, where she was fallable and made mistakes. Frankly, now that she's growing past the "precocious child" stage, she's a lot less of a Mary Sue than Anakin is.

Anyway...on to the thread.

The story in TFU II has major problems. To name one:

SPOILER

So, Vader has an incredibly powerful clone/person about to do his bidding for one reason: because he has said incredibly powerful clone/person's girlfriend at his mercy, and Vader will kill her if incredibly powerful clone/person fails to do Vader's bidding.

So, non-Force-Sensitive girlfriend is pissed off and grabs a lightsaber, a weapon she has zero training in. She sorta points it at Vader, and what does Vader do? He casually grips her by the throat again with the Force, rips the lightsaber out of her hand, and his beautiful plan works perfe--oh, wait. That's not what he does. Instead, he grips the girlfriend by the throat and flings her through a window so hard that she flies waaaaay across a raging sea and conveniently lands on a platform. Both Vader and the clone/person assume that she's been killed, so clone/person attacks Vader.

Hold on.

1) Capture girl
2) Lure guy to girl
3) Threaten to kill girl if guy doesn't work for you
4) Pretend to kill girl so guy will no longer promise to work for you and will instead attack you

That was Evil Incarnate's genius plan?

Yeaaaah...no. Vader could've accomplished his goal with something very simple and, frankly, easier to do than fling some girl a hundred feet (<---conservative estimate) horizontally through the air.

Sordid Dreams
11-02-2010, 12:42 AM
I'd have to disagree with that. Vader was obviously pissed off by her attempt to attack him, and he is a darksider whose power is fuelled by passion and emotion and has a reputation for killing people who annoy him. From this point of view, killing Juno is perfectly in character for him.
As for his plan, it doesn't matter to him if Starkiller submits to him or not. If his plan was simply to make Starkiller submit by threatening Juno, then he wouldn't have tried so hard to make him give up his attachment to her in the first place.
Way I see it, his plan was to destroy the Rebellion by sending Starkiller back to them, then having him betray them. Only he wouldn't, because Juno's a Rebel now and he wouldn't betray the woman he loves. So Vader tried to make him let go of this attachment, which didn't work out all that great.
With Starkiller gone, Vader switched to plan B. Send out Boba Fett, bring Juno to Kamino, then try to coerce Starkiller into cooperation by threatening to kill her. That didn't go down all that well either, since Vader struck her down in a fit of rage.
But the beautiful thing is he can absolutely afford to do that, because he's got plan C. He has the Dark Clone. He tried to turn Starkiller because, well, two loyal and obedient demigods of mayhem and destruction are better than one, but ultimately it makes no difference if Starkiller joins Vader or not. Vader can simply kill him at any point and send out the Dark Clone in his place, which is what he was preparing to do at the beginning when he was getting ready to stab Starkiller in the back again.
It's essentially backup plans within backup plans within backup plans. And the best thing is that it worked perfectly even in the LS ending. In the DS ending the Dark Clone reveals himself because Vader is about to get killed. In the LS ending he has no reason to do that, but that doesn't mean he's not there. He simply remained invisible and in all likelihood stowed away on board the Rogue Shadow, en route to the secret Rebel base that Vader probably didn't even know existed. The LS ending works out better for Vader than the DS ending - not only has he learned of the existence of a hidden Rebel base, he's managed to trick the Rebels into taking him there along with a loyal clone of his superpowerful apprentice, whose very existence the Rebels have no idea about. Cunning enough for you?

GeneralPloKoon
11-02-2010, 01:16 AM
The TFU franchise, while it's not what KotOR or Jedi Knight or Battlefront was back in their time, it's definitely the most promising Lucasarts game of the current time.

Nah, the Monkey Island remakes are. :D

deesnyder
11-02-2010, 04:41 AM
I'd have to disagree with that. Vader was obviously pissed off by her attempt to attack him, and he is a darksider whose power is fuelled by passion and emotion and has a reputation for killing people who annoy him. From this point of view, killing Juno is perfectly in character for him.
As for his plan, it doesn't matter to him if Starkiller submits to him or not. If his plan was simply to make Starkiller submit by threatening Juno, then he wouldn't have tried so hard to make him give up his attachment to her in the first place.
Way I see it, his plan was to destroy the Rebellion by sending Starkiller back to them, then having him betray them. Only he wouldn't, because Juno's a Rebel now and he wouldn't betray the woman he loves. So Vader tried to make him let go of this attachment, which didn't work out all that great.
With Starkiller gone, Vader switched to plan B. Send out Boba Fett, bring Juno to Kamino, then try to coerce Starkiller into cooperation by threatening to kill her. That didn't go down all that well either, since Vader struck her down in a fit of rage.
But the beautiful thing is he can absolutely afford to do that, because he's got plan C. He has the Dark Clone. He tried to turn Starkiller because, well, two loyal and obedient demigods of mayhem and destruction are better than one, but ultimately it makes no difference if Starkiller joins Vader or not. Vader can simply kill him at any point and send out the Dark Clone in his place, which is what he was preparing to do at the beginning when he was getting ready to stab Starkiller in the back again.
It's essentially backup plans within backup plans within backup plans. And the best thing is that it worked perfectly even in the LS ending. In the DS ending the Dark Clone reveals himself because Vader is about to get killed. In the LS ending he has no reason to do that, but that doesn't mean he's not there. He simply remained invisible and in all likelihood stowed away on board the Rogue Shadow, en route to the secret Rebel base that Vader probably didn't even know existed. The LS ending works out better for Vader than the DS ending - not only has he learned of the existence of a hidden Rebel base, he's managed to trick the Rebels into taking him there along with a loyal clone of his superpowerful apprentice, whose very existence the Rebels have no idea about. Cunning enough for you?

You mean to say that the clone followed them to the rebel base, which scene they did not even show. What about boba fett's ship that was shown at the ending. If we had the same dev team i'm bloody sure they would've frozen starkiller in carbonite. Boba fett takes him back to vader's executor instead of jabba and juno uses her prior imperial identity to sneak in undetected and get him out.

You guys are giving good ideas for the story, but not admitting the crappy incompetence of the developers is suicide. If hayden blackman gets a chance to work on TFU 3 he'll botch the whole thing up. Apparently his plans with fearless studios are to make an "over the top"(i've been hearing this since 2007) shooter... Now what, shooter unleashed???? Face it, the man's got no creativity.

adamqd
11-02-2010, 05:33 AM
Actually, I think the CW stories and show in general have improved greatly as it has moved along.



I'm guessing you haven't seen the last 3 episodes? wow... the mandalorian trilogy that just aired is the most boring badly written drivel I have ever experienced, even the "I Love it whether its good or bad cus I love George" crowd are disowning this season :)

but for the Record there is no quality Star Wars Coming from anyone but Del Rey and Dark Horse atm. Lucusarts and Lucasfilm/animation are tearing away what little dignity this franchise has left.

Lets see what they do with Quinlin Vos on the 12th, I'll let you know if I've thrown all my Comics away or not.

Alexrd
11-02-2010, 10:47 AM
I'm guessing you haven't seen the last 3 episodes? wow... the mandalorian trilogy that just aired is the most boring badly written drivel I have ever experienced, even the "I Love it whether its good or bad cus I love George" crowd are disowning this season :)

I agree. The Mandalorian episodes were just dull. But that doesn't mean we should forget about the Kamino arc.

Lets see what they do with Quinlin Vos on the 12th, I'll let you know if I've thrown all my Comics away or not.

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab8/BarrissCoffee6/quinplastered.jpg

:p

Nah, the Monkey Island remakes are. :D

Damn right.

adamqd
11-02-2010, 11:35 AM
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab8/BarrissCoffee6/quinplastered.jpg

:p





I know your just posting that as a joke but for the record that panel is from Star Wars: Republic #41~ The Devaronian Version, and in this Comic the current events are explained from the Point of View of Vilmarh 'Villie' Grahrk (A Scoundrel, Smuggler type) and is supposed to show Quinlan in a Bad/incorrect Light ie; "Not how it actually happened" lol.

Endorenna
11-02-2010, 11:37 AM
I'd have to disagree with that. Vader was obviously pissed off by her attempt to attack him, and he is a darksider whose power is fuelled by passion and emotion and has a reputation for killing people who annoy him. From this point of view, killing Juno is perfectly in character for him.

That makes Vader an idiot. Yeah, he was known for killing admirals who annoyed him, but those people weren't part of his overarching plan.


As for his plan, it doesn't matter to him if Starkiller submits to him or not. If his plan was simply to make Starkiller submit by threatening Juno, then he wouldn't have tried so hard to make him give up his attachment to her in the first place.

So hard? He tried to get him to kill a hologram of Juno. Oh, and he said, "The woman means nothing!" repeatedly (ad nauseum) during the final boss battle. That's not exactly trying hard.

Way I see it, his plan was to destroy the Rebellion by sending Starkiller back to them, then having him betray them. Only he wouldn't, because Juno's a Rebel now and he wouldn't betray the woman he loves. So Vader tried to make him let go of this attachment, which didn't work out all that great.
With Starkiller gone, Vader switched to plan B. Send out Boba Fett, bring Juno to Kamino, then try to coerce Starkiller into cooperation by threatening to kill her. That didn't go down all that well either, since Vader struck her down in a fit of rage.
But the beautiful thing is he can absolutely afford to do that, because he's got plan C. He has the Dark Clone. He tried to turn Starkiller because, well, two loyal and obedient demigods of mayhem and destruction are better than one, but ultimately it makes no difference if Starkiller joins Vader or not.

So...Vader struck down some untrained, un-Force-Sensitive lady in a fit of rage when he could've easily disarmed her; that costs him the obedience of a demi-god, but it makes no difference? Really? Yeah, he has the Dark Clone as backup, but...well, the other Starkiller just single-handedly 1) escaped from Kamino 2) cut his way through an entire Imperial garrison on Cato Nemoidia, destroying two gunships along the way 3) killed a creature that eats rancors for breakfast 4) fought off a massive Imperial boarding party (okay, there were a few Rebel troops, but most of them sorta died) 5) flung orbital debris from a space battle out of the way of his ship while he crashed onto Kamino 6) cut his way through the Imperial garrison there 7) fought Darth Vader himself for a good long time without getting killed (not to mention fighting off countless clones of himself while doing so).

Yeah, no loss there.

Having the Dark Clone is nice. Having two Starkillers at his command is a dream situation. Losing a demi-god because he couldn't control his rage for three seconds is unacceptable and unbefitting of a Dark Lord of Vader's caliber.

Vader can simply kill him at any point and send out the Dark Clone in his place, which is what he was preparing to do at the beginning when he was getting ready to stab Starkiller in the back again.

Yeah, Vader can kill him at any point after securing his obedience, as he was preparing to do at the beginning, but how much damage could Starkiller do to the rebellion before he finally betrayed Vader? If Starkiller betrays him despite Juno's life being at stake, Vader and the Dark Clone can go kill him together. But that's pointless--after all, Vader couldn't control his rage and struck Juno down, remember?


It's essentially backup plans within backup plans within backup plans. And the best thing is that it worked perfectly even in the LS ending. In the DS ending the Dark Clone reveals himself because Vader is about to get killed. In the LS ending he has no reason to do that, but that doesn't mean he's not there.

He has no reason to reveal himself? Wait--didn't the original Starkiller (who may or may not be the player, remember) come that close to killing Vader before? Once Starkiller had attacked Vader again, the Dark Clone should've stepped in and killed Starkiller right then. Yeah, there's the Rebel base thing--more on that in a second.

He simply remained invisible and in all likelihood stowed away on board the Rogue Shadow, en route to the secret Rebel base that Vader probably didn't even know existed. The LS ending works out better for Vader than the DS ending - not only has he learned of the existence of a hidden Rebel base, he's managed to trick the Rebels into taking him there along with a loyal clone of his superpowerful apprentice, whose very existence the Rebels have no idea about.

But wouldn't it have been better to have both Starkillers truly loyal to him? Think of this: Vader forces Starkiller to serve him. He tells him to go kill the rebel leaders, or "she will die." Vader leaves Kamino in a shuttlecraft, taking Juno with him. The Starkillers are left there, with the Dark Clone hiding. Kota comes along and asks where Vader and Juno are. Player Starkiller tells him that Vader escaped with Juno, and he doesn't know where they went. He suggests they go see Bail Organa, Mon Mothma, and Garm Bel Iblis to show them that he's alive. Once there, Dark Starkiller reveals himself and kills all three of them while Player Starkiller kills Kota. When that's done, the Starkillers proceed to kill off the remnants of the rebellion, using the information that Organa/Mothma/Iblis would undoubtedly have near their persons.

And all that was traded for one lousy hidden rebel base because Vader couldn't control his rage for three seconds.


Cunning enough for you?

'Fraid not. Two demi-gods under your control are better than one.

Sordid Dreams
11-02-2010, 12:21 PM
That makes Vader an idiot. Yeah, he was known for killing admirals who annoyed him, but those people weren't part of his overarching plan.
Yes. So? The dark side is fuelled by passion and impulse, and those can make you do stupid things. Such as, oh I don't know, cutting off Windu's hand instead of just blocking his strike blade to blade.

So hard? He tried to get him to kill a hologram of Juno. Oh, and he said, "The woman means nothing!" repeatedly (ad nauseum) during the final boss battle. That's not exactly trying hard.
"Give her up or I'm going to kill you" seems pretty hard to me.

So...Vader struck down some untrained, un-Force-Sensitive lady in a fit of rage when he could've easily disarmed her; that costs him the obedience of a demi-god, but it makes no difference? Really? Yeah, he has the Dark Clone as backup, but...well, the other Starkiller just single-handedly 1) escaped from Kamino 2) cut his way through an entire Imperial garrison on Cato Nemoidia, destroying two gunships along the way 3) killed a creature that eats rancors for breakfast 4) fought off a massive Imperial boarding party (okay, there were a few Rebel troops, but most of them sorta died) 5) flung orbital debris from a space battle out of the way of his ship while he crashed onto Kamino 6) cut his way through the Imperial garrison there 7) fought Darth Vader himself for a good long time without getting killed (not to mention fighting off countless clones of himself while doing so).

Yeah, no loss there.

Having the Dark Clone is nice. Having two Starkillers at his command is a dream situation. Losing a demi-god because he couldn't control his rage for three seconds is unacceptable and unbefitting of a Dark Lord of Vader's caliber.
Yes, it makes no difference, since he already has the loyalty of a person just as capable. Not to mention that with the cloning process perfected, he can just make more. Even if it takes a million failures to produce a single stable clone, the Empire can afford it.

Yes, it makes no difference, since he already has the loyalty of a person just as capable.Yeah, Vader can kill him at any point after securing his obedience, as he was preparing to do at the beginning, but how much damage could Starkiller do to the rebellion before he finally betrayed Vader? If Starkiller betrays him despite Juno's life being at stake, Vader and the Dark Clone can go kill him together. But that's pointless--after all, Vader couldn't control his rage and struck Juno down, remember?
I don't follow.

He has no reason to reveal himself? Wait--didn't the original Starkiller (who may or may not be the player, remember) come that close to killing Vader before? Once Starkiller had attacked Vader again, the Dark Clone should've stepped in and killed Starkiller right then. Yeah, there's the Rebel base thing--more on that in a second.
I don't think there's any reason for him to step in earlier, Vader seems to be doing pretty well against Starkiller this time around. Plus the Sith are prone to gambling with their lives. Remember Palpatine arranging to get himself kidnapped by Grievous? Just watch the beginning of Ep 3 and count the number of times he narrowly escaped death in that little adventure. It was an insanely dangerous operation that put his entire galactic scheme at risk and he went ahead with it anyway.

But wouldn't it have been better to have both Starkillers truly loyal to him? Think of this: Vader forces Starkiller to serve him. He tells him to go kill the rebel leaders, or "she will die." Vader leaves Kamino in a shuttlecraft, taking Juno with him. The Starkillers are left there, with the Dark Clone hiding. Kota comes along and asks where Vader and Juno are. Player Starkiller tells him that Vader escaped with Juno, and he doesn't know where they went. He suggests they go see Bail Organa, Mon Mothma, and Garm Bel Iblis to show them that he's alive. Once there, Dark Starkiller reveals himself and kills all three of them while Player Starkiller kills Kota. When that's done, the Starkillers proceed to kill off the remnants of the rebellion, using the information that Organa/Mothma/Iblis would undoubtedly have near their persons.
And that wouldn't work with just one Starkiller... why, exactly?
Also, I seriously doubt the leaders of the Rebellion would leave incriminating information just lying around in their offices.

And all that was traded for one lousy hidden rebel base because Vader couldn't control his rage for three seconds.
You seem to be forgetting that the Rebellion tends to have only one base at a time.

'Fraid not. Two demi-gods under your control are better than one.
Plenty of cloning pods left intact on Kamino.

Endorenna
11-02-2010, 04:10 PM
*shrug* I'm not going to argue the point. I can see the story either way. If they come out with TFU III at some point, I guess we'll find out. :xp: (Would be nice for Vader to not be a complete idiot; still doesn't excuse the pointless cameos and character ruining the game did, but at least it would help the villain.)

And that wouldn't work with just one Starkiller... why, exactly?

This one part I'll answer: Dark Starkiller doesn't know what's passed between Kota and Starkiller. If Kota is the least little bit convinced that Dark Starkiller isn't Starkiller, he won't take Dark Starkiller to the heads of the Rebellion, and Dark Starkiller will have a hell of a lot more trouble completing his mission.

Also, I assume Kota, despite being blind, can sense a Dark Sider.

Sordid Dreams
11-02-2010, 04:27 PM
He does know what happened between Kota and Starkiller during TFU1 and not that much has happened between them in TFU2. Plus come on, Starkiller's been killed, revived (twice, actually), tortured, brainwashed, cloned, and god knows what else. Of course he's going to act a little weird.
As for Kota sensing a dark sider, in my opinion Starkiller is and always has been one. Plus Kota's an old fool that can't even tell the guy he's sitting next to isn't a Jedi.

Endorenna
11-02-2010, 06:22 PM
He does know what happened between Kota and Starkiller during TFU1 and not that much has happened between them in TFU2. Plus come on, Starkiller's been killed, revived (twice, actually), tortured, brainwashed, cloned, and god knows what else. Of course he's going to act a little weird.

Eh, maybe. I still think there would be enough differences for Kota to figure it out.

As for Kota sensing a dark sider, in my opinion Starkiller is and always has been one.

That's definitely a possibility, but I think he evens out to more of a "grey" Sider.

Plus Kota's an old fool that can't even tell the guy he's sitting next to isn't a Jedi.

Well, to be fair, Kota was drunk at the time...

But I won't argue about him being...okay, maybe not a fool, exactly...but an...annoyance. :p

Sordid Dreams
11-02-2010, 06:41 PM
I actually like Kota, aside from his insistence on referring to Starkiller as a Jedi. He's not as preachy and holier than thou as other Jedi, he seems to be a "no nonsense, get the job done whatever it takes" kinda guy. Kinda like Windu, only not lame and horribly miscast.

MajinMikeyX
11-02-2010, 09:41 PM
Now this is the type of conversation I've been waiting for!

Since you guys already discussed the things I thought about already, I have a suggestion for the ending possibly for the 3rd game. Well, in the start, I'm thinking that the Dark Clone would've been following the rebels wherever they take Vader. And then he breaks Vader out somehow. Then other stuff happens, hopefully a lot of stuff, making the game longer than it's predecessors. Then we figure out if we're controlling a clone or the original Starkiller. Then at the end I think Starkiller and the Dark Clone have to be killed somehow, probably by Vader.

I don't know why, but when I imagine it in my head, I imagine Starkiller and the DC to be fighting each other aboard a ship and Vader firing on them from another ship, kinda like Darth Malak did to Revan in KotOR.

deesnyder
11-03-2010, 04:34 AM
Just make TFU 3 good if you're making one. not the load of BS we have right now. This whole starkiller thing was pointless. Instead you wanna show tru force unleashed, you should've focused on the time line between RoTS and ANH with vader as the protagonist... that would've been wayyy better. I don't like the idea of calling myself unleashed and then having to dodge sniper rifle shots or getting pushed around by riot troopers. Here's my version.

Let the camera be more OTS like arkham asylum, so you actually get the sense of how tall and overpowering the guy is, accomplishing about 50% of the "unleashed" idea.

Secondly, new combat system, 2 laser blasts are enough to kill you, so you add a timed block system. Finally for combat, i would suggest an interactive, environment based control scheme. THis scheme is very popular and has not been that explored yet. Only true crime: hong kong and Assassin's creed 2 have explored this a little. It gives access to more satisfying combat moves and finishers, plus just imagine what you could do with the force??? Remember that pre-vis force power video? That will be a 100% possible. Another example would be: 4 troopers in front of you, Slash first one effectively beheading him, then do a saber throw and impale the second one leaving your saber there. Proceed to choke the 3rd one with a nice camera close up or any other effect giving the intensity of this guys power. Then finally force pull your lightsaber and with a small twirl do the infamous darth maul to qui-gon backstab.

Focusing on vader prevents the requirement for adding any new characters that if not researched properly, could leave holes in the story line.

DMM and EUPHORIA could've been easily explored since vast areas wouldn't be required... BTW There was no DMM in this game at all...

Darth Darkus
11-03-2010, 12:14 PM
just played through for the first time. Darkside ending is nice. Only my pc is a little too slow for this game. But the game itself is really good imo.

Visas
11-03-2010, 07:53 PM
I dislike the reskinned Darth Sion.

captmorgan72
11-05-2010, 03:00 PM
I agree with you guys about the scene with Vader force pushing Juno. That was very badly done. He could have easily stripped the saber from her with the force and then choke her for punishment. He needed her alive for Starkiller to follow his orders. What should have happen (and does happen in my mind anyway when I see that scene), Juno grabs Vader's saber like she did, but instead of just pointing it at him, she swings it and clips Vader's side. This causes just superficial wounds but enough for Vader to lash out instinctively with anger and force push Juno with lethal intent.

Now this mystery if Starkiller is really Galen or a clone. Through out the game we see Starkiller show very strong emotional ties to both Juno and Kota. He really cares about them. Then there are the flashbacks that happen during certain events in the game. When doubting that he could be Galen we see a flashback of when Vader brought him back from death's door in part one. Could be just a template memory or it could be a hint that he was brought back after his "death" suggesting that it happened again. In the final fight with Vader, Starkiller tells him, "I've always been stronger than you" in which Vader replies, "and yet you fail to kill me". Was this a slip on his part admitting that Starkiller was in fact Galen and not a clone?

The ending has two parts, one light side and the other dark. Assuming that this sequel follows the same format as the last, the light side ending is canon while the dark side ending is a "what if" scenario. At the conclusion of the light side ending, it looked to me that Vader failed to create a stable clone from Galen and decided to try to convince Galen that he WAS a clone. Then he tried to blackmail him with Juno but that didn't work out either. The dark side ending had Vader successfully creating a stable clone from Galen's DNA. Better yet, this clone fully embraced the dark side, were Galen never did. Then there is the possibility that Starkiller WAS in fact a clone. In this scenario, even if he was, like Kota said, it wouldn't matter. Through the clone, Galen would have been "resurrected". The same thing happen to Star Trek's Spock in "The Search for Spock".

Sordid Dreams
11-05-2010, 03:35 PM
Speaking of slip-ups, there's the costume selection menu. When selecting the Dark Clone robes, the info box says it's the outfit of "the only stable clone of Starkiller". Which leaves the player character either Starkiller himself or an unstable clone.

deesnyder
11-05-2010, 04:31 PM
Speaking of slip-ups, there's the costume selection menu. When selecting the Dark Clone robes, the info box says it's the outfit of "the only stable clone of Starkiller". Which leaves the player character either Starkiller himself or an unstable clone.

Or, The player character is the real starkiller.BTW i really preffered kota calling him Galen...

Prime
11-08-2010, 10:27 AM
Actually, she's improved a lot. See the last episode, where she was fallable and made mistakes. Frankly, now that she's growing past the "precocious child" stage, she's a lot less of a Mary Sue than Anakin is.I hated here when she was introduced, but her character has improved a lot and is far from the Mary Sue she once was, and certainly is nothing like Starkiller in that respect.

I'm guessing you haven't seen the last 3 episodes? wow... the mandalorian trilogy that just aired is the most boring badly written drivel I have ever experienced, even the "I Love it whether its good or bad cus I love George" crowd are disowning this seasonNope, I'm at around episode 17 of season 2. So maybe it takes a nosedive later, but I liked Season 2 overall. Flaws aside, I just like seeing Anakin portrayed as the hero we heard about in the OT and his interaction with Kenobi. Plus there is a lot less of the battledroid silliness, etc.

but for the Record there is no quality Star Wars Coming from anyone but Del Rey and Dark Horse atm. Lucusarts and Lucasfilm/animation are tearing away what little dignity this franchise has left.I'm a huge DH fan, and picked up the first issue of Knight Errant. Looks good so far! Del Rey I find hit or miss. Mostly miss post-RotJ.

Lets see what they do with Quinlin Vos on the 12th, I'll let you know if I've thrown all my Comics away or not.Well, whatever happens in the show I'll always cherish the Republic comics. They will always stay in my personal canon. :)

Now this mystery if Starkiller is really Galen or a clone. I thought it was already confirmed in the game when you do the achievements or whatever they are called that he is a clone?

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/SithStarSlayer/Rhett_is_DEAD.png

MajinMikeyX
11-08-2010, 08:42 PM
Or, The player character is the real starkiller.BTW i really preffered kota calling him Galen...

Yeah it was either slip-up or them telling us that the player is the real Starkiller.

I thought it was already confirmed in the game when you do the achievements or whatever they are called that he is a clone?

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/SithStarSlayer/Rhett_is_DEAD.png

Then here's the thing that has them telling us that the player is a clone.

My little theory is that if he's not a clone, then the player character was the "real Starkiller" from the picture and Vader was showing the Dark Clone what he was supposed to hate. Then after that Vader revived Starkiller somehow like he did in the first game and that's where TFU2 begins.

Not sure if I was clear but don't hate, I'm just giving a suggestion of a possible scenario.

Sordid Dreams
11-08-2010, 08:51 PM
Oh come on, guys. We all know that Vader lies a lot, and even discounting the possibility that the body is one of those training holodroids that scene is still taking place in a cloning facility. With hundreds of rejected Starkiller clones on hand. Please tell me you're not falling for that.

Or, The player character is the real starkiller.
That is what I said.

MajinMikeyX
11-08-2010, 10:34 PM
Oh come on, guys. We all know that Vader lies a lot, and even discounting the possibility that the body is one of those training holodroids that scene is still taking place in a cloning facility. With hundreds of rejected Starkiller clones on hand. Please tell me you're not falling for that.

Good point, but who knows. Only TFU3(hopefully) will enlighten us on this subject.

Sordid Dreams
11-08-2010, 10:59 PM
My theory is that the player character is indeed the real Starkiller. I base this on two pieces of evidence: Firstly, the Dark Clone costume description, which if accurate would mean the protagonist is either Starkiller or an unstable clone. He sure does seem unstable near the end, hearing voices and fending off attacks by an imaginary Vader. But the voices taunt him in very much the same way as Vader does. Kota's voice makes a reference to "a dead man", which is a phrase that Vader drops in pretty much every dialog. That leads me to believe that what is going on at that point is Vader's trying to mess with Starkiller's head via the Force.

Zerimar Nyliram
11-09-2010, 11:05 AM
I'm an Occam's Razor kind of guy: I believe that the simplest explanation is often the correct one. That said, I do believe that the Starkiller we control in The Force Unleashed II is indeed a clone. The novelization of the first game even describes his consciousness floating out of his body, out of the Death Star and out into space before dissolving. So yes, Galen Marek is dead.

It is kind of stupid that the body in the picture above is dressed in the outfit that the player is dressed in from the Salvation through the end of the game (by default), though. I wish they would have put him in that hooded outfit that he wore when infiltrating the Death Star in the previous game.

Alexrd
11-09-2010, 12:02 PM
I thought it was already confirmed in the game when you do the achievements or whatever they are called that he is a clone?

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/SithStarSlayer/Rhett_is_DEAD.png

Isn't that story non-canon? If it is canon, shouldn't Starkiller be wearing Jedi Adventure Robes? Isn't a bit awkward Juno falling in love by a stranger, just because he is Starkiller's clone?

Zerimar Nyliram
11-09-2010, 02:04 PM
The ending where the Dark Apprentice kills Starkiller isn't canon, but the Dark Apprentice's existence is canon. As to why he chose not to strike Starkiller down in the light side ending (since he was obviously so close, and was not detected by General Kota) is anyone's guess.

adamqd
11-09-2010, 02:33 PM
Well, whatever happens in the show I'll always cherish the Republic comics. They will always stay in my personal canon. :)



QFT

Sordid Dreams
11-09-2010, 03:04 PM
The ending where the Dark Apprentice kills Starkiller isn't canon, but the Dark Apprentice's existence is canon. As to why he chose not to strike Starkiller down in the light side ending (since he was obviously so close, and was not detected by General Kota) is anyone's guess.
No it's not. Vader clearly tells him to not step in until needed. In the DS ending Vader's about to get killed, so the clone reveals himself. In the LS ending Vader is not only not in danger but is in fact even on his way to the secret rebel base.

Zerimar Nyliram
11-09-2010, 03:09 PM
That doesn't make sense. Deciding to cut down Vader suddenly brings this other character who didn't exist previously into existence? That's not logical. The Dark Apprentice clearly exists, and there has to be a reason why he allowed Vader to be captured. [Edit: What you said about Vader clearly not being in danger in the light side ending even reinforces this.]

For that matter, there has to be a reason why Vader allowed himself to be captured. For someone so powerful in the Force, I can't envision him being so easily shackled up by a couple of puny Rebel soldiers, or that those harnesses would prevent him from breaking loose.

Prime
11-09-2010, 05:22 PM
Isn't that story non-canon? If it is canon, shouldn't Starkiller be wearing Jedi Adventure Robes? Isn't a bit awkward Juno falling in love by a stranger, just because he is Starkiller's clone?Doesn't he orignally get stabbed by Vader in the outfit shown?

Alexrd
11-09-2010, 05:27 PM
Doesn't he orignally get stabbed by Vader in the outfit shown?

True.

Sordid Dreams
11-09-2010, 06:18 PM
The Dark Apprentice clearly exists, and there has to be a reason why he allowed Vader to be captured.
Of course there is. What's Vader after? The Rebellion, right? And where's Kota taking him? To the Rebels' secret base. Kota is not only showing Vader where the base is, he's actually bringing him there. Now I wouldn't say that's a terribly bright idea even with Vader securly bound, but with an invisible evil Starkiller skulking around? Wanna bet he stowed away on board the Rogue Shadow? You see where this is going?

Doesn't he orignally get stabbed by Vader in the outfit shown?
Hm... now that's either a gigantic coincidence, or the writers may not be quite as incompetent as they seem. If I recall correctly, in TFU1 the enemies on the Empirical referred to the newly revived Starkiller as subject 1138. Now in TFU2 on Kamino they say that subject 1138 has returned to Kamino. Perhaps Starkiller's been dead since halfway through TFU1 and we've been playing a clone all along.

Alexrd
11-09-2010, 06:27 PM
Hm... now that's either a gigantic coincidence, or the writers may not be quite as incompetent as they seem. If I recall correctly, in TFU1 the enemies on the Empirical referred to the newly revived Starkiller as subject 1138. Now in TFU2 on Kamino they say that subject 1138 has returned to Kamino. Perhaps Starkiller's been dead since halfway through TFU1 and we've been playing a clone all along.

And wouldn't he need time to grow? That doesn't fit.

Zerimar Nyliram
11-09-2010, 07:25 PM
Of course there is. What's Vader after? The Rebellion, right? And where's Kota taking him? To the Rebels' secret base. Kota is not only showing Vader where the base is, he's actually bringing him there. Now I wouldn't say that's a terribly bright idea even with Vader securly bound, but with an invisible evil Starkiller skulking around? Wanna bet he stowed away on board the Rogue Shadow? You see where this is going?

Um . . . Yes, I agree with you one hundred percent, but I still don't see how that proves the Dark Apprentice didn't exist.

Think of it this way: In terms of the dark side ending, everything up to the moment where the player presses that "dark side" button and triggers the ending is canon, right? That means that everything that transpired up until that moment has really and truly occurred, both within the story that we see playing out in front of us, as well as what is happening behind the scenes in order to make those events play out the way we see them play out.

Now, in order for the non-canonical dark side ending to play out the way it does - with the Dark Apprentice showing up to spoil everything - that means that, up until that point, everything necessary to lay the groundwork for such a thing to happen needed to transpire within the canonical portion of the story. So unless this evil clone suddenly materializes from nonexistence into being when the player presses that "dark side" button, it's logical to assume that while Starkiller is off doing what he does over the course of the story, his evil twin is also out there doing what he needs to do to get close to his master and Starkiller in order to carry out Vader's will should the need arise (which it does not).

And for whatever reason--likely the reasons you mentioned--he chooses not to kill Starkiller when the latter spares Vader's life.

As such--and I know this is probably just the fanboy in me speaking--I think the Dark Apprentice is the best candidate for the other main villain in the next game. And although I'm willing to bet that LucasArts lets that entire scenario slide and leaves this huge plothole open, it still would not disprove his existence.

Zerimar Nyliram
11-09-2010, 07:32 PM
As a follow-up to the above posts: That would work if it were not for the fact that all of the clones possess Galen's memories from both before and after the Empirical incident. That would mean that, if the Starkiller appearing in the story from that point on was indeed the clone, the clones on Kamino are clones of this clone, not the original host; and that, in turn, means that the body suspended in the air in the above scene is not, in fact, the template from which all of the clones were created.

But in any case, I don't even think the outfit looks like the one you're talking about. Rather, I think it more closely resembles the outfit that Starkiller wears in the second game, from the Salvation onward. That's even more problematic.

But it's an artistic representation. No harm done. After all, look how much Kratos' brother from the new God of War PSP game--whose story was entirely inspired from an unlockable video from the first God of War game from PS2--looks nothing like what he looks like in that video. Things such as this should be viewed more as representations rather than actual depictions.




[Edit] As for having no time to grow the original clone, just to play devil's advocate here are two things to consider: 1) Vader raised Starkiller from childhood, so he would have had any number of years to obtain a DNA sample and grow a clone in secret. 2) Canonical sources say that six months pass between the scene where Vader stabs Starkiller through the torso and when he awakens on the Empirical. The same about of time passes between the two games, so Vader would have had the exact same amount of time to grow the first clone.

I'm not convinced either way, I'm just saying. I think it's a theory with a lot of merit, but I'm neither for nor against it at this point. More information is needed.

MajinMikeyX
11-09-2010, 07:45 PM
Of course there is. What's Vader after? The Rebellion, right? And where's Kota taking him? To the Rebels' secret base. Kota is not only showing Vader where the base is, he's actually bringing him there. Now I wouldn't say that's a terribly bright idea even with Vader securly bound, but with an invisible evil Starkiller skulking around? Wanna bet he stowed away on board the Rogue Shadow? You see where this is going?

Exactly.

Hm... now that's either a gigantic coincidence, or the writers may not be quite as incompetent as they seem. If I recall correctly, in TFU1 the enemies on the Empirical referred to the newly revived Starkiller as subject 1138. Now in TFU2 on Kamino they say that subject 1138 has returned to Kamino. Perhaps Starkiller's been dead since halfway through TFU1 and we've been playing a clone all along.

Considering that the player is the real Starkiller all throughout TFU1 and 2, I think it's a coincidence. I mean, yeah there's that big question now since that picture, but I have a feeling that they used the Sith Training gear costume to portray that body as the original Starkiller. That's the first outfit we've ever seen Starkiller in, so it's just a tool to tell people that "that's TFU real Starkiller, and there's TFU2 clone Starkiller".

That's what I think, but if they used the Jedi Adventurer robes, the one he "died" in at the end of TFU1, then I think it would be more of an obvious sign they're telling us that we're playing as the clone, or that Vader's more of a master of lying than we thought.

But I don't think there's any clone-business going on in TFU1 at all. Definitely something going on in TFU2, but not 1. Clones need time to grow. If I'm not mistaken, after Starkiller gets stabbed in TFU1 by Vader, when he wakes up it's been 6 months. That's what I've heard. And Starkiller's inbetween the ages of 20-25 or something. So growing a clone to that age in 6 months. So If this is the same clone in TFU2, 6 more months later, we should be controlling a middle-aged man.

Despite what the TFU1 novel said, how his spirit floated up into space or something, I'm still guessing that it's the real Starkiller we're dealing with in TFU2. Like a question brought up earlier, how could Juno love another man. I don't know about cloning and the Force, but Star Wars doesn't mess around with love.

Zerimar Nyliram
11-09-2010, 07:51 PM
But I don't think there's any clone-business going on in TFU1 at all. Definitely something going on in TFU2, but not 1. Clones need time to grow. If I'm not mistaken, after Starkiller gets stabbed in TFU1 by Vader, when he wakes up it's been 6 months. That's what I've heard. And Starkiller's inbetween the ages of 20-25 or something. So growing a clone to that age in 6 months. So If this is the same clone in TFU2, 6 more months later, we should be controlling a middle-aged man.

I just spoke to that one post above yours: The exact same amount of time passes between that event in the first game and the first two games. Six months and six months. And it's age-accelerated.

Despite what the TFU1 novel said, how his spirit floated up into space or something, I'm still guessing that it's the real Starkiller we're dealing with in TFU2. Like a question brought up earlier, how could Juno love another man. I don't know about cloning and the Force, but Star Wars doesn't mess around with love.

But Star Wars is also pretty big on the whole certain-point-of-view theme. Kota said it all when he said he was starting to think that whether or not Starkiller was a clone was irrelevant. He is the same man with the same memories and life experiences. It's like his life, which was cut off prematurely, has been given the chance to continue from where it left off.

Sordid Dreams
11-10-2010, 03:16 AM
And wouldn't he need time to grow? That doesn't fit.
Well we don't know how much time passed between Starkiller getting stabbed and waking up on the Empirical, do we? Plus I wouldn't put it past Vader to already have the project running while Starkiller was alive, so he may have had clones ready already.


Considering that the player is the real Starkiller all throughout TFU1 and 2, I think it's a coincidence.
Do we know that for sure?

I mean, yeah there's that big question now since that picture, but I have a feeling that they used the Sith Training gear costume to portray that body as the original Starkiller. That's the first outfit we've ever seen Starkiller in, so it's just a tool to tell people that "that's TFU real Starkiller, and there's TFU2 clone Starkiller".
Yeah, you're probably right. I have a tendency to overthink this stuff. I have a feeling it's the same thing as parts 2 and 3 of the Matrix trilogy. When the second one came out I started thinking about it and thought it had a really cool, well thought out story, but then the third one came out and proved me totally wrong.

If this is the same clone in TFU2, 6 more months later, we should be controlling a middle-aged man.
I would imagine the accelerated aging works only while the clone is in the tank.

Zerimar Nyliram
11-10-2010, 12:28 PM
Well we don't know how much time passed between Starkiller getting stabbed and waking up on the Empirical, do we?

Yes we do: Six months. I've said it many times.

jedimike2234
11-10-2010, 02:38 PM
If i remember,in the novel it states he was out for six months,then the novel goes to say it took another 6 more months to track down Kota,but in the game i dont think its said anywhere in terms of time,at least as far as i remember.
The game plays out as if he woke up just minutes after being stabbed in the chest by vader and it only takes him 10 minutes to track down kota in cloud city.
There is no time frame in the game as to how long events took,at least for me,not to start another war here just stating how things were in the first novel.

I guess what needs to be asked is if it happened in the novel does it mean that it also happened in the game?

Sordid Dreams
11-10-2010, 06:26 PM
I think it's mentioned that Starkiller tracked him across several planets, so it's reasonable to assume it took him a while. But how long he was out after being stabbed, that isn't stated anywhere. However, Juno is still scheduled for execution when he wakes up, which to my mind implies it didn't take very long. If he'd been out for six months, I'm guessing she'd have been long dead by the time he woke up.

MajinMikeyX
11-10-2010, 07:49 PM
Do we know that for sure?

Bad word choice again on my part. I meant more like "If we assume he's the real Starkiller, then it would be a coincidence."


I would imagine the accelerated aging works only while the clone is in the tank.

They modify the genes of the clones so that they grow faster depending on how they modified it. The Clone Troopers in Episode II age twice as fast as normal. So when they're 10 they're physically 20. Whether or not they're in the tank still or not, they grow faster no matter what.

I find it weird that there's a possibility that the Starkiller we play as in TFU2 might be a clone. I still don't quite know but Starkiller's within the age range of 20-25 like I said before. If he's a 6-month-old clone and he's physically 20-25, then he might die off from just old-age before Episode IV. It just doesn't make sense to me if he is a clone. It's also strange to me that we don't see any younger clones in the cloning tanks at all unless Vader just made one batch.

jedimike2234
11-10-2010, 08:07 PM
This is from the Wookieepedia entry for Galen Marek:

Betrayal and resurrection

After informing his master of Shaak Ti's death, Vader told him to return to the Executor immediately, for the time had come to face the Emperor. As Starkiller was aboard the Executor, the Emperor's fleet arrived. Starkiller believed that Vader had lured Sidious to them, but Vader revealed that he did not summon him. As the confused Sith apprentice turned to see PROXY entering the room in the form of Darth Sidious, he was brutally stabbed through the back by the very man who raised him, as Vader angrily stated that the Emperor's spies had followed him there. Darth Sidious commanded Vader to finish off Starkiller and prove his loyalty. Despite Starkiller's pleadings, Vader turned on him, telekinetically ravaging him around the command bridge before finally hurling him through the view port windows. While his body lifelessly drifted through space, a lone Viper probe droid swiveled by, picked him up and took him to a hidden location.

Escape from the Empire

"Your destiny is now your own. Sever all ties to your past. No one must know that you still serve me. Now go. And remember that the dark side is always with you."

―Darth Vader —

Approximately six months later, Starkiller awoke once more. As it turned out, Vader had rescued him, sending out a droid to recover his body, and brought him to be "rebuilt" on Vader's personal science vessel, the Empirical.

here is the link:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Galen_Marek


The other thing i do remember from the novel is that juno was in stasis in that time,where the stromtroopers would give her food every couple of months.

The following from junos entry in the wiki:

After defeating Jedi Master Shaak Ti on Felucia, Starkiller returned to his Master, only to discover that the Emperor had learned of his existence. Starkiller was betrayed, and seemingly killed, by Lord Vader at the behest of the Emperor. Afterward, Vader would declare Juno a traitor and have her imprisoned inside his science vessel, the Empirical, for six standard months.

The link just in case:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Juno_Eclipse


Now if the novel says six months passed and this entry says Approximately six months later,maybe it can be six monts later,but i guess it can be debated.

TFU 2 is just 6 months after the end of the first game..........

Sordid Dreams
11-10-2010, 09:09 PM
Well this entry is based on the book. It's not like the SW wiki is any kind of authoritative source, it just compiles the info from the various SW media. If the writers are setting up a plot twist for the third game/novel but haven't revealed it yet, then the wiki would of course only have the set up but not the twist itself. So I think it's still very much up in the air whether or not Starkiller is a clone or not and when exactly he'd been cloned if he is. Several viable options, plus the ever present possibility that the writers will just pull something that doesn't make any sense out of their asses (see my mention of the Matrix films in my earlier post).

MajinMikeyX
11-10-2010, 09:23 PM
I didn't read the novel..but the novel says it was PROXY posing as the Emperor, NOT the Emperor himself? If that's true, then it completely weakens the power of that scene to me. To me it was powerful because is was Darth Vader and Starkiller, his apprentice, and then the Emperor orders Vader, his apprentice, to kill Starkiller. Kinda confusing in that last sentence but just that Starkiller's master's master was there in front of him.

deesnyder
11-10-2010, 10:59 PM
I didn't read the novel..but the novel says it was PROXY posing as the Emperor, NOT the Emperor himself? If that's true, then it completely weakens the power of that scene to me. To me it was powerful because is was Darth Vader and Starkiller, his apprentice, and then the Emperor orders Vader, his apprentice, to kill Starkiller. Kinda confusing in that last sentence but just that Starkiller's master's master was there in front of him.

I highly doubt the emperor was proxy in that scene for two reasons...

1. If you notice proxy portraying a hologram, you'll have noticed that the character's voice of whom he portrays sounds similar to the original person but with a slight static sound in the background. Play it in high volume, you'll notice it. However no such static comes for the emperors voice, but i agree it doesn't come for vader as well. That's cause he already has his respirator assisted voice.

2. Once vader's done with starkiller and chucks him outta the window, you'll notice the emperor gives a brief but noticeable look to vader. That definetly suggests the emperor was present there at that point of time.

Sordid Dreams
11-10-2010, 11:16 PM
Plus if it was Proxy acting (presumably) on Vader's orders, why would he keep cackling after Starkiller's been chucked out the window?

MajinMikeyX
11-11-2010, 12:45 AM
I really hope you guys caught that it wasn't me that said it. I'm wondering from jedimike's post. Who in the world would put that on the wiki. I seriously think after someone posts an article that it should get locked until new media involved that character and they reopen it again and dot he same process because people are so stupid sometimes. I knew it had to be fake.

Zerimar Nyliram
11-11-2010, 03:48 PM
I've also read on Wookieepedia that, according to Lucas Film, the novel takes precedent over the game. This means that any additional scenes that we see in the game--including the downloadable Jedi Temple mission, as well as the three other Temple missions from the PS2/PSP/Wii versions--are canonical as long they they don't contradict the book and can seemingly be integrated into the story.

It also means that any departures from the book's narrative seen in the game are instances of apocryphal storytelling and are not to be considered canon. For example, in the novel, PROXY is possessed by the planet Raxus Prime's collective consciousness known as the Core when he attacks Galen and takes on the form of Darth Maul (as well as Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker in the novel), whereas in the game he is simply seizing the opportunity to catch Galen unawares. By this logic, this particular scenario as seen in the game is not the correct version; the novel presents the correct narrative in regard to this discrepancy.

So the Force Unleashed novelizations are held to a higher standard than the games. It's sort of the opposite of the movie novelizations, where the films take precedence.

That said, it was indeed PROXY projecting the Emperor's image in the scene where Vader runs Galen through. But I don't see how that matters: It's still Palpatine confronting them, whether he's there physically or not. And since we know that Vader is powerful enough to execute his malevolent Force powers on someone via a projection, is there any doubt that Sidious isn't capable of doing the same? In that respect, even though Palpatine is not truly present, he may as well be. I have no doubt that he would have been completely free to execute any Force power or lightsaber combat technique in that scene through PROXY should Vader have made the wrong choice (with the possible exception of Force lightning, but you never know!).

It doesn't cheapen the scene. If anything, it shows just how powerful and capable Palpatine is.

And, to restate what I've been saying: Six months passed between that scene and the one where Galen is seemingly resurrected, and six months pass once again between the two games. I am not sure whether I believe Galen was restored to life the first time through cloning or not, but if he was, considering it will only take six months to grow his clones later on, I would say that it is definitely a strong possibility.

MajinMikeyX
11-11-2010, 04:52 PM
"It doesn't cheapen the scene. If anything, it shows just how powerful and capable Palpatine is."

I don't know how you think that but I guess it's a point of view thing. I'd like to think that Palpatine's lightsaber style is un-copyable because it's too intricate and unpredictable. I mean PROXY doesn't have Mace Windu or Yoda so I wouldn't expect him to have Palpatine either.

For the cloning stuff though, I'd wager on the first game not having anything to do with clones at all. Only in the second is cloning a big part of the game.

Sordid Dreams
11-11-2010, 06:01 PM
Yeah, I don't really see how Palpatine being present via what is nothing more than a glorified video phone call makes him more badass either.
Plus there's the problem of the Force. Force-sensitives can sense other Force-sensitives. I find it hard to belive Starkiller wouldn't pick up on the fact that the figure in front of him isn't really a Sith lord.

Zerimar Nyliram
11-11-2010, 10:10 PM
Well, he's kind of lying there dying, having just been impaled. I'd say that's probably what's occupying most of his concentration.

MajinMikeyX
11-11-2010, 11:45 PM
Still though...it seriously changes the scene where Starkiller's "killed" but in the light side ending when Kota's like, "Let it go" and Galen says, "He deserves to die for what he's done to me".

Palpatine came in the room and Vader stabbed him in the back, slammed him against the walls, and flung him into space to make it look like he killed him. Starkiller had a grudge against Palpatine in his mind I bet because of what he caused and then to find out it was actually PROXY? Out of all the extra details and content the book has over the game, I think I'm going to try and disregard this one...:indif:

Zerimar Nyliram
11-12-2010, 01:05 AM
Dude, you know that all of the things you mentioned are still true, right? It was Palpatine, not PROXY, that betrayed Galen in that scene, and it was Palpatine, not PROXY, whom Galen wished to kill for what he did to him. PROXY's body only served as a communicational means. It's no different from the Emperor being present via holovid, only more realistic.

Why does it matter that PROXY's body served as the go-between? It doesn't take any of the blame away from Palpatine. PROXY wasn't in control at that point.

Sordid Dreams
11-12-2010, 08:32 AM
Well, he's kind of lying there dying, having just been impaled. I'd say that's probably what's occupying most of his concentration.
True, but he still thought he and Vader could defeat Palpatine, so he apparently didn't consider the gaping hole in his chest to be much of a handicap.

Ser'eck
11-15-2010, 01:02 AM
Just throwing in my :twocents: on the game. I just bought this yesterday and beat it in one night. Although short I must say that I really enjoyed the game. Everything about it was much better than the first one. And the challenge levels, IMO, make up for how short it was.

:thmbup1::thmbup1:

adamqd
11-15-2010, 05:05 AM
I'm a Star Wars Nutjob, but I was so disappointed with it, I cant bring myself to play from the last save point to see the alternate ending... TFU I was light-years ahead of this in every way

Alexrd
11-15-2010, 10:17 AM
TFU I was light-years ahead of this in every way

It's all about this folks. They should have stayed with the first one only. This sequel was too forced.

Sordid Dreams
11-15-2010, 12:38 PM
Or they could've made it, y'know, good. Which to my mind would mean making it at least five times as long, not cutting the story off just as it's starting to get good, making it not annoying in every single possible way especially in terms of the new enemies, and getting rid of that damn pause when you hit stuff. Even though the game runs perfectly smooth on my system, it still feels choppy because of that. Gawd, what idiot thought that was a good idea...

MajinMikeyX
11-15-2010, 11:15 PM
I'm a Star Wars Nutjob, but I was so disappointed with it, I cant bring myself to play from the last save point to see the alternate ending... TFU I was light-years ahead of this in every way

Definitely an opinionated statement. People had some pretty outlandish standards for this game if they expected it to just blow the first game out of the water. As for being light-years ahead in every way, the graphics and game mechanics of TFU2 are for a FACT improved over the first, everything else is a matter of taste.

It's all about this folks. They should have stayed with the first one only. This sequel was too forced.

Don't get me wrong, while the story and game overall was short and everything, I loved it while it lasted and I'll OCCASIONALLY play it after I get the last achievement I need for it. But, the game did seem kind of forced. They could've just finished with TFU1, but now I think they have no choice but to release a TFU3 since the cliffhanger they left.

Or they could've made it, y'know, good. Which to my mind would mean making it at least five times as long, not cutting the story off just as it's starting to get good, making it not annoying in every single possible way especially in terms of the new enemies, and getting rid of that damn pause when you hit stuff. Even though the game runs perfectly smooth on my system, it still feels choppy because of that. Gawd, what idiot thought that was a good idea...

I feel sorry for you PC-version owners. The 360 and PS3 versions are perfectly smooth AND not-choppy at all.

Sordid Dreams
11-15-2010, 11:41 PM
I feel sorry for you PC-version owners. The 360 and PS3 versions are perfectly smooth AND not-choppy at all.

I'm not talking about choppy as in low framerate. I mean that split second pause that happens whenever you hit an enemy with your sabers. It's not framerate stutter, the game runs perfectly smooth the whole time, it's just a momentary pause in the character's animation. TFU1 had it too and as far as I can tell from the videos it's present in the console versions as well. I can only assume it's something they did on purpose, but the reasoning behind it completely escapes me.