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Dak Drexl
10-09-2011, 01:19 AM
So what does everyone think? I really don't know much about it to be honest - I'd just like to hear some opinions.

Sabretooth
10-09-2011, 05:05 AM
I'm just waiting for when Obama will initiate bombing strikes and protestor crackdowns like any civilized communo-fascist socialist dictator. :carms:

Lynk Former
10-09-2011, 05:07 AM
OCCUPY THE MOON!


I've heard about it in passing on the net but I have no idea what the whole deal is or what it's about lol.

Astor
10-09-2011, 07:23 AM
Don't know much, but based on what I've seen it largely looks like a bunch of communists, anti-capitalists and anarchists with lots of catchy ideas and slogans, but no actually workable ideas, they're parroting the same things about 'more taxes' and 'down with banks/corporations', and holding up traffic, much like the similar group over here called UK Uncut does.

Like our brothers and sisters in Egypt, Greece, Spain, and Iceland, we plan to use the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic of mass occupation to restore democracy in America. We also encourage the use of nonviolence to achieve our ends and maximize the safety of all participants.

:rofl:

Sabretooth
10-09-2011, 11:20 AM
The irony is, most of the protestors don't have an occupation.

:iceburn:

logan23
10-09-2011, 11:27 AM
From what I read, they are are the 99 percent, people ranging from college to babyboomer (50s)...including a 92 year old marched with them.

They are against corporate greed and getting corporate money out of politics since our politicians are owned by these companies.

They don't have a full list of demands.....remember what happen in Egypt...how people had a college degree in engineering but are selling cell phones on the streets of NYC...This is the same setup here in America.

Social media is allowing this to grow since now its groups are now found in over a dozen cities...and its growing.

They are not against capitalism but they are against greed and the way how some business will use their money to buy politicians and place profit over people.

Ex. Some people who had their house foreclosed on and the bank did not make their full total money back..are now suing the person who foreclosed for the 78 thousand gap in what they wanted to get back.

Some of Corporations out there have now become the Kings and Queens of the world where they feel they are above all. They will do what they want and then blame the government...which they own.....for the reason for this.....This type of action will only fuel the occupy Wall street and other occupy groups...

They think what happen in Egypt can't happen in the USA,....the Mega rich and powerful along with politicians...are delusional if they think America is invincible/ immune to such events.

The group is growing and its peaceful....except for a few zealots who will do something dumb like the Smithsonian situation----which was the anti war group there.

Occupy Wall street is a peaceful growing group...

jawathehutt
10-15-2011, 06:14 AM
Occupy Frankfurt is starting today so I'm heading that way in a few minutes, I just really want to protest. I could be protesting anything and I'd be happy.

Ctrl Alt Del
10-15-2011, 11:20 AM
I can't argue with the initiative. It's a natural reaction to the most recent economic crisis which culprits have been determined ages ago. People are angry and want to vent it. They want to be heard, they want to be seen.

Still, and I can mention a few scholars that would agree with me, it's protesting for the sake of protesting. They lack an agenda and clear objectives and, in the end, it may not accomplish nothing because of that.

Ztalker
10-15-2011, 12:01 PM
I can't argue with the initiative. It's a natural reaction to the most recent economic crisis which cultprits have been determined ages ago. People are angry and want to vent it. They want to be heard, they want to be seen.

Still, and I can mention a few scholars that would agree with me, it's protesting for the sake of protesting. They lack an agenda and clear objectives and, in the end, it may not accomplish nothing because of that.

However, the reason they probably won't accomplish anything is not their fault.
With all the respect, the US is a 'sick' country. Watched the last Michael Moore documentary about the financial crisis and I can't shake the feeling that the nation is run by a select few who keep their 'layer' of society intact. Like the old caste system. Even Obama can't ignore them (since they funded his campaign).
We got that over here too though. Occupy The Hague is going on here.
We had a bank top manager scoring a multi-million bonus for his good performance. Best part: The bank needed an injection of billions to stay alive. So my tax money went straight into his (probably container-sized) wallet. And the government didn't fix this.

Because the old minister of finance who gave them the support of billions works for them (another bank though) now.

Astor
10-15-2011, 12:20 PM
They don't have a full list of demands.....remember what happen in Egypt...how people had a college degree in engineering but are selling cell phones on the streets of NYC...This is the same setup here in America.

They think what happen in Egypt can't happen in the USA,....the Mega rich and powerful along with politicians...are delusional if they think America is invincible/ immune to such events.

Comparing the revolutions in North Africa to protests in America and other Western countries does a disservice to those who died in those protests.

I'm not saying they're wrong to protest, but comparing themselves with the situations in Egypt and Tunisia is stupid. They're not being shot at for a start, and nor are they under the grip of a dictatorship that wouldn't hesitate to shoot them.

Some of the problems may be similar - unemployment, corporations, etc, but the protesters on Wall Street are guaranteed the right to demonstrate, something that people all across the Middle East are still risking their lives for.

Prime
10-15-2011, 01:08 PM
So what exactly needs to be changed? Until that is answered they will get nowhere.

Ztalker
10-15-2011, 01:39 PM
So what exactly needs to be changed? Until that is answered they will get nowhere.

Well...you're an American right? You can't be satisfied by the way your country is run, the way money decides who becomes the president, etc.
As an outsider, it's difficult to 'see' the real problems besides what we see on the television: People getting kicked out of their houses, after paying 20 years of mortgage, because a suited man is gambling in Wall Street. That's the image of the situation we get over here in Europe....

Dak Drexl
10-15-2011, 07:09 PM
I really just don't think protesting is going to solve anything. At first I think the initiative against big business and all was a good thing. But now... people are just going to protest against anything and everything they can think of; it's so unorganized. It's become quite retarded IMO.

Kjølen
10-17-2011, 12:50 PM
I don't want to be the ******* who throws out his credentials and says his opinion is better than everyone else's, but I'm in school for economics right now, so I see a lot of wrong economic advice on TV and stuff. What's WRONG with us right now is that our economy is in a bad slump. It's survivable. It's cyclical. It will get better and then it will happen again in the future.

The difference is our society doesn't accept as much as we used to. We don't work as hard and we were raised hoping other people would work hard for us. That means sometimes we ALL have to go through hard times and work for the benefit of other people. Greedy rich people have existed all throughout history in every system. We could (and probably should) find a way to moderate their greed, but placing the blame on them is scapegoating the real problem, and that is that we are getting lazy and greedy ourselves.

mimartin
10-17-2011, 01:03 PM
I find this funny, the tea party started about the very same thing...Governments involvement in bailing out the banks and wall street. In the beginning they were just as unorganized and stupid with tea bags hanging from their hats. However, they did have a very good point about the lack of financial responsibility by corporate America and the world for that matter. They made billions on risky investments and then when the time came to pay the piper they shifted the burden to the American Tax Payer.

However, that message from the tea party was soon squelched by corporate America and the Republican party so that the tea party has become little more that a subset of the Republican party. Cut the taxes on these same corporations, remove the oversight and wait for the next financial catastrophe.

Dak Drexl
10-18-2011, 01:18 AM
I don't want to be the ******* who throws out his credentials and says his opinion is better than everyone else's, but I'm in school for economics right now, so I see a lot of wrong economic advice on TV and stuff. What's WRONG with us right now is that our economy is in a bad slump. It's survivable. It's cyclical. It will get better and then it will happen again in the future.

Well said for sure.

Prime
10-18-2011, 04:10 PM
Well...you're an American right? You can't be satisfied by the way your country is run, the way money decides who becomes the president, etc.
As an outsider, it's difficult to 'see' the real problems besides what we see on the television: People getting kicked out of their houses, after paying 20 years of mortgage, because a suited man is gambling in Wall Street. That's the image of the situation we get over here in Europe....
Nope, Canadian. So I'm quite happy with regulated banks. :)

90SK
10-19-2011, 12:39 AM
I believe in progress and I do not think a stagnant political arena will get us any closer to the more perfect union promised. I support President Obama fully, he is an adequate leader and a fine spokesman for the land of the free, I was a student volunteer right along side my peers in 2008 when he ran, and we watched him get elected. This occupy wallstreet movement is the beginning of the end of corporate America if it achieves that message, though in terms of progress I don't know enough about the issues they're attempting to address specifically to offer any kind of advice for what an ideal outcome would be. I find the notion that America still has the ability to lead the world into a sustainable and progressive future regardless of senseless political dogma.

mur'phon
10-21-2011, 10:22 AM
To be fair, I think part of the reason they don't have a coherent set of demands is that, right now, the point is to show that there is a lot of people dissatisfied with the current system. By keeping the coalition broad enough, they might get enough mass to get some politicians to adopt their ideas, while a more focused group would be dismissed as a crazed fringe.

@Kjølen: While I agree with the belief that it's cyclical, to me the downturn appears more like the trigger for a protest, while other policies have provided fuel for the content of those protests. If inequality hadn't increased, bailouts hadn't happened etc I'm not sure people would be out on the street shouting the same thing.
As an aside, does your name mean anything? Because in my language it translates as keel:p

Q
11-21-2011, 04:07 PM
http://i.imgur.com/dzXFl.jpg

90SK
11-21-2011, 06:59 PM
So strange.

I support the occupy movement completely, because I believe that our way of doing things needs to be shaken out of its stagnancy with action coming from the people and expressing to the ruling elite.

Q
11-21-2011, 07:31 PM
Too bad that 99% of the 99% have no freaking clue why they're there getting pepper-sprayed in the first place.

90SK
11-21-2011, 08:59 PM
The message of the movement becomes less important the more footwork is done to support it, though the message remains important to the overall cause. I think the idea is to connect the occupy movement to the bank failures and bailouts of a few years ago and to bank fraudulence generally. Thats just what I know off the top of my head, couldn't say any more about what they intend to do.

Q
11-21-2011, 10:55 PM
No offense, but I rest my case. :cool:

90SK
11-21-2011, 11:16 PM
None taken, but I haven't been there, I've been here :D The activism is what counts, and how much of it has presented through this cause, whatever it may be, which is how I judge its merit.

mur'phon
11-22-2011, 06:17 AM
@Q: I don't see why they need to understand why they are being pepper-sprayed, as long as they make politicians jittery enough to actually support some of the causes they are trumpeting. Sure, it might not work and sure it could turn into a circus that turns the rest of the country against them. Then again, that was once the conventional wisdom regarding the Tea-party.

Trench
11-22-2011, 03:03 PM
Occupy LucasForums!

stingerhs
11-22-2011, 11:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJN56XPldms&feature=colike

couldn't have said it any better myself.

Dak Drexl
11-23-2011, 12:44 AM
Occupy LucasForums!

I'm sitting in as I type this, does that count?

Hopefully George doesn't pepper spray us.

Q
11-23-2011, 02:36 AM
@Q: I don't see why they need to understand why they are being pepper-sprayed, as long as they make politicians jittery enough to actually support some of the causes they are trumpeting.
These entitlement-mentality retards don't seem to understand that the presidential candidate who they're obviously going to vote for (again) is owned by the very people they're protesting, as is any Republican candidate.

They're getting maced for nothing, because nothing will change until we take corporate money out of our politics, and to do that will require a constitutional amendment.

Prime
11-23-2011, 11:00 AM
America is f'ed up.

At least from the outside looking in...

mimartin
11-23-2011, 11:39 AM
They're getting maced for nothing, because nothing will change until we take corporate money out of our politics, and to do that will require a constitutional amendment.Q you should be their leader, because if they came out and just said that was their objective then they may not be ridiculed to the extent they are now. Instead they all being painted as out of work, lazy, criminals that believe the government owes them something and that is too broad a brush.

Also, Newt who himself has spent a majority of his life living off the government tits and getting rich playing “consultant” (another word for lobbyist), should learn that a public park is open to all citizens, not just the ones with money. However, when you were the first Speaker of the House to ever be disciplined for ethic violations, then you may know scumbags when you see them (after all you see one every day when you look in the mirror). :xp:

America is f'ed up.

At least from the outside looking in...

From this side it just looks like David vs. Goliath, with David being portrayed as a bunch of lazy scumbags.

Just waiting for someone to say "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche."

Sabretooth
11-23-2011, 01:11 PM
America is f'ed up.

At least from the outside looking in...

I'm sure that's how America sees the whole world too. :D

Totenkopf
11-23-2011, 10:41 PM
@Q--I agree.

@mim--problem w/OWS is that the kooks that their circus atmosphere has attracted and abetted have become a blight on their movement. And unlike w/the Tea Party people, they've overstayed their welcome and become a public hazard and nuisance (to put it politely). Perhaps if these people were less of a rabble and more an organized and law abiding group, the media might not have anything to "paint them with broad brush strokes" over in the first place. The MSM (nevermind dem pols) would have liked nothing better than to present OWS as the mirror left image of the Tea Party people. Events have effectively neutered that as a realistic and rationale option. First impressions are very hard (though not necessarily impossible) to overcome. As to "Let them eat cake", it'd more likely be fromage in this case (as in govt cheese). :devsmoke:

@Prime & sabre---what, you mean there're actually other countries in the world?!? :xp:

Q
11-25-2011, 12:54 PM
Q you should be their leader, because if they came out and just said that was their objective then they may not be ridiculed to the extent they are now. Instead they all being painted as out of work, lazy, criminals that believe the government owes them something and that is too broad a brush.
http://ironingfairy.net/images/extreme-ironing-04.jpg

90SK
11-25-2011, 01:24 PM
Ideally we will have a quicker move towards unification, is being slowed by the fact that the targeted corrupt are hiding behind a sinking Republican minority making noise at Democrats whom I do not know about in terms of if they support action against the power in the states... really I just read different news sites and make my own judgements. I predict Obama winning his second term and a more organized move towards progressive America.

Q
11-25-2011, 02:05 PM
Still don't get that the Democrats are bought and paid for, too, huh?

There is no real difference between the two parties. It's all an illusion. OOOOOOOWEEEEEEEOOOOOOH!

mur'phon
11-25-2011, 05:43 PM
While I agree that getting the money out is important, I don't see why we should let the best be the enemy of good. If momentum is behind other beneficial changes, then let's support them since they are more achievable, while trying to convince them to support our cause. Deriding other efforts as tiny changes, is fine until you consider that said tiny changes can make a huge difference to some people.

90SK
11-25-2011, 06:32 PM
Still don't get that the Democrats are bought and paid for, too, huh?

There is no real difference between the two parties. It's all an illusion. OOOOOOOWEEEEEEEOOOOOOH!

I was ignoring them. They know who they are. But I agree with you on your last point, perhaps though from the perspective of an idealist who still believes in institutionalized change at least a little.

Q
12-01-2011, 08:20 PM
The only "institutionalized" change to the status quo would be a constitutional amendment.

Fortunately, it can be accomplished legally without any federal (or partisan) involvement at all...

Totenkopf
12-01-2011, 08:37 PM
Likely to be partisan involvement at local/state level in trying to get something passed, nevermind the headache of a Constitutional Convention. Still, it does allow for an end-run around the feds. Given how they (Congress) seem permanently mired in growing irrelevance and impotence, it's a good thing the founders had some foresight.

Also, nice to see what kind of responsible citizens these coddled OWS protestors continue to be. :rolleyes:

mimartin
12-02-2011, 04:46 PM
Also, nice to see what kind of responsible citizens these coddled OWS protestors continue to be. :rolleyes: Yes, they are all exactly the same and all have committed crimes. I guess all the republican candidates for President are all guilty of sexual harassment too? Or does that logic only work on those on the left? :xp:

Totenkopf
12-02-2011, 08:35 PM
Yeah, well if all the Tea Party types can be labled and/or dismissed as rednecks and racists....I guess the old saying about what's good for the goose... :devsmoke:

mur'phon
12-03-2011, 03:51 PM
A problem with protests (almost no matter the cause) is that of those believing in a given cause, the people who actually have time/prioritize protesting tend to be far more obnoxious than the supporters in general.

90SK
12-03-2011, 10:55 PM
If enough United States citizens rise up against a corporate entity, the notion of corporate accountability at the federal level may come into active questioning.


The physical structure of American government is stagnant and financially maintained. What the occupiers are doing is a sensible strategic movement given its roots and the nature of our current governing body also supported by roots movement.

Tommycat
12-03-2011, 10:56 PM
Yeah, well if all the Tea Party types can be labled and/or dismissed as rednecks and racists....I guess the old saying about what's good for the goose... :devsmoke:

With the irony of this being that the Neo-Nazis are supporting the OWS.

How many deaths at Tea Party Rallys?
How many rapes?
How many prostitution rings?
Any Tea partiers dropping deuces on cop cars?
How about vandalism? Any on the Tea Party side? I mean I remember one incident that later turned out to be a former volunteer for the Democrat it happened to, so I'll go ahead and say a few. But nothing so blatant as the OWS.
http://bigjournalism.com/files/2011/10/10119942-large.jpg
Tea Party Rallys tended to leave the area CLEANER than they found it.
How many tons of garbage have the OWS people left?

90SK
12-03-2011, 11:17 PM
Tea partiers are pussies, they're numbers and voices for a nameless republican presence in the white house that few really believe in. Nobody cares about Neo-Nazis, they live for the pointless ways; one neo nazi can attempt a murder and his identity will be erased by the American justice system.

Occupiers show force for financial accountability and reform, and I claim my bias freely because the alternative is of course nothing and we still have self-defeated progressions of policy coming through from the Bush era. Republicans still have an attractive opportunity to offer small government reform and Democrats still have an attractive opportunity to propose progressive social and financial revisions to our current set or rules.

Working together is not hard. Anyone who does not apply themselves to the task of working together openly will fail, in my eyes. Most of the GOP candidates have opposed this initiative. I believe they will fail to gain enough support to turn the leadership of America against President Obama, and I believe that President Obama will continue to gather support for his bipartisan talks and passive progressive mending of America's woes.

Tommycat
12-04-2011, 01:30 PM
Tea partiers are pussies, they're numbers and voices for a nameless republican presence in the white house that few really believe in. Nobody cares about Neo-Nazis, they live for the pointless ways; one neo nazi can attempt a murder and his identity will be erased by the American justice system.

Occupiers show force for financial accountability and reform, and I claim my bias freely because the alternative is of course nothing and we still have self-defeated progressions of policy coming through from the Bush era. Republicans still have an attractive opportunity to offer small government reform and Democrats still have an attractive opportunity to propose progressive social and financial revisions to our current set or rules.

Working together is not hard. Anyone who does not apply themselves to the task of working together openly will fail, in my eyes. Most of the GOP candidates have opposed this initiative. I believe they will fail to gain enough support to turn the leadership of America against President Obama, and I believe that President Obama will continue to gather support for his bipartisan talks and passive progressive mending of America's woes.
Tea Partiers are not supported by the Republican party. In fact there have been a few Democrats who were supported OVER the Republican candidate. OWS has been supported by the Democrat party from the start. While it's true that many Republicans support the Tea Party, it's more along the lines of them being more in line with the Tea Party than the other way around.

Totenkopf
12-04-2011, 02:03 PM
@90SK--while "working together" is not hard in theory, it usually is in fact. When both parties see radically different paths to a solution (ever bigger vs smaller/curtailed govt), co-operating becomes that much harder. But given your obvious preference for hardcore confrontation to achieve a goal, are you saying Teapartiers should have behaved as the OWS types have?

90SK
12-04-2011, 05:11 PM
I would not say that, which I suppose in turn reveals my bias against tea partiers. I have a hard time perceiving the difference and I suppose their cause also speaks through their actions on differing levels of delivery, occupiers showing force and tea partiers ranking elections and debates.

I believe that radicalization is necessary if radical change is the end goal.

Totenkopf
12-04-2011, 05:17 PM
Well, the French Revolution was pretty radical..... Still, radical change usually only seems to initially lead to anarchy and then you get the last line from Won't Get Fooled Again: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...... I think the problem is that many in the OWS movement are consumed with the tearing down party and haven't really thought through the aftermath yet (sort of like the complaint about "Bush's war" in Iraq....no planning for the post-victory/peace).

90SK
12-08-2011, 02:46 PM
This is a valid point, there are many radicals who would see the current establishment torn down yet I feel like there is no aftermath scenario commonly accepted or supported by organizations or individuals (like the President) who would be key players in this type of scenario.

Though, it may be early to put out faith in this type of occurrence just because it isn't happening of its own accord already with such force. The occupy movement and tea party movement both I think show that there is a move to change and progress in America, perhaps the election will allow President Obama to harness this phenomenon like he did to win the 2008 election, or perhaps there will be a backlash and one of the challengers will be elected... though I find that a difficult scenario to believe.

mimartin
12-08-2011, 03:52 PM
Moved to Kavar’s the discussion has gotten too serious and political for Atho. From here forward Kavar’s rules apply.

Totenkopf
12-08-2011, 06:18 PM
Though, it may be early to put out faith in this type of occurrence just because it isn't happening of its own accord already with such force. The occupy movement and tea party movement both I think show that there is a move to change and progress in America, perhaps the election will allow President Obama to harness this phenomenon like he did to win the 2008 election, or perhaps there will be a backlash and one of the challengers will be elected... though I find that a difficult scenario to believe.

Predictably, though, they are going in completely divergent directions w/regards to a solution. The OWS crowd seems to seek greater govt involvement, while the TP people see big govt being an integral part of the problem (esp at the federal level). Frankly, I don't believe Obama's defeat is that unlikely. However, much can change over 11 months (a seeming eternity in politics). This time, though, unlike in 2008, BO isn't an empty vessel for people to fill with their "hopes", but rather a known quantity and complete with his own baggage. Even if he does win, it's likely to be a very close election unless things turn around significantly by Nov, 2012. Afterall, a year out from the elections of 1980 and 1992, it's unlikely many thought Reagan or Clinton would defeat sitting presidents.

Tommycat
12-08-2011, 06:43 PM
In all honesty, I would love to see those in the government thrown out. Not just Dems, but Republicans as well. They've both gotten so far out of touch that it seems that a revolution is almost required at this point to do any change. Rid ourselves of the whole of the Federal government and start over.

90SK
12-08-2011, 07:29 PM
I would be sad to see Barack Obama defeated by some upstart. He is an intelligent man who knows how to deal in moderation. I supported his 2008 candidacy with volunteering when I couldn't vote, and I intend to vote for him in the upcoming 2012 election. My hope is that the time between now and then will be filled with turbulence and debate, and ideally Obama will emerge as the calm in the center of the storm, with bipartisan tactics and a concerted effort to unify the two parties in their agenda moving forward he should have a fair chance at his second term.


But one of the big issues here is the slack from apathetic citizens, the distasteful elephant in the progressive room. THATS why I like occupiers and I suppose tea partiers too though like I said anything that isn't moving towards a unified government under a right and left working together will undoubtedly mimic Obamas first term.

edit: Obviously I don't think about the repercussions of a second Obama presidency on our next president in 2017, I would like to see Obama as our president through 2012 because I believe he is a strong believer in America and her future potential: this nation can be great in so many ways and perhaps we forget that she is still growing up and going through those awkward phases. Pardon my metaphors... but its kind of true, I think if we as a people play our cards right, of course referring in this case only to Americans (but applicable to other westerners and like minded folks), we may yet find ourselves on the right track as a nation.

Dak Drexl
12-12-2011, 02:46 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/12/occupy-protestors-attempt-west-coast-port-blockades_n_1142978.html

These people are morons. Do they really think this is helping the 99?

90SK
12-15-2011, 01:45 AM
It being a blanket movement, I can't help but think it really speaks for itself. Rallying those who AREN'T the power elite to show their support against the power elite, and I myself being against a power elite thus cannot say I do not support the occupy movement.

Q
12-15-2011, 07:13 PM
But the occupiers are generally pro-Obama.

How is he not the power elite?

90SK
12-15-2011, 08:13 PM
Because he works for us, and he's largely transparent compared to "them". We could denounce him as part of the power elite, but we would in doing so ignore the support he has lended through his candidacy to the cause of the people and the betterment of our Union.

The "selling point" for a second Obama presidency is the fact that he is competent and likable, and as the President of the United States he is also the figurehead at which he does (in my opinion) an admirable job.

I reserve unconditional respect for the commander-in-chief because I empathize with my leader. He is accountable for the actions of the nation.

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G4yDCUJJm_U

This guy nails it pretty good, a lot of our problems as a nation are bogged down by bull****, public opinion on largely trivial social issues stopping up progress on fairly basic financial and legislative issues. This is why I am for the occupy movement and against the tea party (more or less): the tea party is kinda getting at a more upstart Bush-era-like (minus bush) routine of proposals while the occupy movement is basically staging attacks against the notion of unbalanced distribution of power and wealth. President Obama is in check, the system he represents is under the control of the people be definition and thus he works for us. He is doing his job for us, his job is to represent the people to make changes and enact legislation and representation of the country's best interests.

Then again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tO2irR2Wj8&feature=share

I don't know how this election season will turn out, I'm sure there will be more drama and plenty of confusion and pitfalls, perhaps from all sides of the spectrum this time.

Totenkopf
12-16-2011, 03:54 PM
Because he works for us, and he's largely transparent compared to "them". We could denounce him as part of the power elite, but we would in doing so ignore the support he has lended through his candidacy to the cause of the people and the betterment of our Union.

Actually, the govt is probably less transparent in the end than even the "corporate sector". In spite of FOIA requests and procedures, there is a lot the govt drags its feet on or worse. This president talks the talk, perhaps, but that's about it. BO is just one more of the power elite who will profit greatly from his stint in the WH.

The "selling point" for a second Obama presidency is the fact that he is competent and likable, and as the President of the United States he is also the figurehead at which he does (in my opinion) an admirable job.

Actually, that is a rather rosy view. His own ratings currently suggest that if the election had been held in Nov of 2011, he'd be out on his ass in January 2012. But, fact is, opinions (for and against) are subjective by nature and mercurial. If things turn around in a sufficently concrete way, he could still get relected next year. I'm hoping that he can join the likes of Carter in 2013 and maybe put his commnuity organizing talents to work helping HFH and like.


I reserve unconditional respect for the commander-in-chief because I empathize with my leader. He is accountable for the actions of the nation.

Wish I could say the same.


Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G4yDCUJJm_U

This guy nails it pretty good, a lot of our problems as a nation are bogged down by bull****, public opinion on largely trivial social issues stopping up progress on fairly basic financial and legislative issues. This is why I am for the occupy movement and against the tea party (more or less): the tea party is kinda getting at a more upstart Bush-era-like (minus bush) routine of proposals while the occupy movement is basically staging attacks against the notion of unbalanced distribution of power and wealth. President Obama is in check, the system he represents is under the control of the people be definition and thus he works for us. He is doing his job for us, his job is to represent the people to make changes and enact legislation and representation of the country's best interests.

Well, was initially reticent to view clip when I saw it was Ratigan, but wth, it was only about 5 min or so. There were a few glaring holes in his analysis. First, the presidency has also been bought (look at how much it costs to become the "leader of the free world") along with Congress. Two, Obama can make a direct appeal to the public, but the Constitution doesn't allow for a dictator. Three, his silly characterization of the republicans as "burning everything down" was laughable. To his credit, at least, he recognizes that the problem is still a bipartisan one (neither side proposing the kinds of measures truly needed to bring the deficit under control) and fueled by the problem of influence peddling and the international monetary system set up in the decades following WW2 (I'd say even longer than the 20 year +/- figure he mentions).


Then again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tO2irR2Wj8&feature=share

I don't know how this election season will turn out, I'm sure there will be more drama and plenty of confusion and pitfalls, perhaps from all sides of the spectrum this time.

I don't doubt that it will be even dirtier and murkier than '08.

Working Class Hero
12-16-2011, 05:57 PM
I reserve unconditional respect for the commander-in-chief because I empathize with my leader. He is accountable for the actions of the nation.I'd hope that respect should be ever more conditional the more authority you grant someone, not less.

Q
12-21-2011, 05:28 AM
^Well put.

Q
05-02-2012, 09:58 AM
The OWS scenario reproduced in a lab. (http://www.wimp.com/monkeydeviousness/)