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mimartin
02-15-2012, 02:09 PM
What trend in the gaming industry do you find the most troubling?

1. Online activation and online requirement to play (DRM). 3rd party requirement (Steam to play Skyrim or Origin to play Mass Effect 3).

2. Along the same lines. Digital distribution the move towards no longer having a physical copy and only being able to purchase the game from certain digital distributors (exp Origin)

3. Streamlining games in an attempt to make them more attractive to a wider audience.

4. More and more games being made with consoles in mind and PC just being a ported after thought.

5. More games trying to add multiplayer/co-op

MsFicwriter
02-15-2012, 02:25 PM
My main gripe is with the DRM (why, why, WHY, especially if it's a single-player game), but I'm also disgusted with the fourth option. Example: Skyrim. The controls on PC are simply maddening for me, and I don't own a console, so there you have it.

ChAiNz.2da
02-15-2012, 02:41 PM
DRM for sure. :carms:

While I LOVE Steam.. I don't think it should be a requirement for others who are not so fond.
I can only imagine the RAGE I'd feel if I were required to use Origin... (I play ME on console :xp: )

Alexrd
02-15-2012, 02:41 PM
"1. Online activation and online requirement to play (DRM). 3rd party requirement (Steam to play Skyrim or Origin to play Mass Effect 3)."

This, without a doubt.

Mandalore5
02-15-2012, 04:58 PM
I'd vote for all of them if I could, but I mainly hate the fact that I can't actually get a physical game. If a PC/console dies, and I don't have a disc to reinstall it with, then what would I do? It's far more reliable to actually have a hard copy.

mimartin
02-15-2012, 05:06 PM
I'd vote for all of them if I could, but I mainly hate the fact that I can't actually get a physical game. If a PC/console dies, and I don't have a disc to reinstall it with, then what would I do? It's far more reliable to actually have a hard copy.

Can't speak for the rest (don't have them), but with Steam, you just redownload them. It is just like magic or having the disc, only you can't lose the disc or scratch it up. ;)

Totenkopf
02-15-2012, 05:34 PM
Voted Yoda, NOT b/c there aren't problems, but b/c several of the options all seemed equally bad to me. Both DRM and lack of physical copy bother me about the same. If I'm gonna play a game, I at least want it on the disc I bought. Having DLable backups (like w/Steam, etc..) IS good, but not a substitute. #5 bothers me least, as long as the MMO type content isn't really integral to the story itself (but mostly an op to rack up a body count or just kill time, for instance). Streamlining and platform issues are in the middle with this group of options. ME3 is likely (along w/maybe TOR) to be my last vid game purchase for quite awhile.

Lynk Former
02-15-2012, 09:56 PM
In many ways digital distribution implies DRM to begin with... of course not always, just look at Good Old Games... but yeah, still.

Platform issues can go the other way too of course, PC games that get horrid console ports but no one seems to complain about that since I've found that console owners are more open to having multiple platforms available to them to begin with.

M@RS
02-15-2012, 10:36 PM
Yoda for, Online activation and online requirement to play (DRM) and Console Designed/PC Ported.

Sabretooth
02-16-2012, 12:01 AM
DRM can be gotten around, but a game made for consoles and ported to PC remains a waste.

Pho3nix
02-16-2012, 05:37 AM
DRM can be gotten around, but a game made for consoles and ported to PC remains a waste.
Yeah, this.

Lynk Former
02-16-2012, 06:21 AM
Sabre's only miffed about consoles because he pirates all his games and you can't really do that cheaply or for free with consoles... at least newer ones that aren't handhelds since you can easily download emulators and roms for the older and less powerful ones :p

Alexrd
02-16-2012, 06:23 AM
Can't speak for the rest (don't have them), but with Steam, you just redownload them. It is just like magic or having the disc, only you can't lose the disc or scratch it up. ;)

And with Steam, you have to hope someone doesn't hack your account or you don't get banned for some reason... I know cases where people were banned without doing anything wrong. And they don't give any explanation.

That's the problem of being dependable of 3rd party software or servers. You don't have any control over what you legally payed for. On GOG for example, you do have your account where you can download the games you legally bought any time you want. But if you choose to download the .exe and save it on a disc, hard drive, whatever, you can. And you won't ever need any kind of activation or login to play the game. It yours.

LordOfTheFish
02-16-2012, 10:25 AM
I haven't played any PC games lately, but DMR takes the cake on this one.

mimartin
02-16-2012, 09:52 PM
I know cases where people were banned without doing anything wrong. And they don't give any explanation.I don't know anyone that has been banned, but I have read about that on the internet.

I also read about people being banned from bioware or EA's website, have their game in their hands, but still can't play it because of the ban. Again, don't know anyone that was banned, but I have read it.

I'm not losing any sleep over it, I've just decided not to post on Bioware or EA's official websites or even Steam for that matter. I'll post here and wait for Lynk to ban me, he has no control over my games though.

JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan
02-16-2012, 11:16 PM
DRM takes the cake for me.

Runner up would be console ports.

What about DLC? Is anyone still annoyed about those things?

Alexrd
02-17-2012, 07:42 AM
I'll post here and wait for Lynk to ban me, he has no control over my games though.

http://1funny.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/soon-cat-dog.jpg

:p

What about DLC? Is anyone still annoyed about those things?

Yes. Although generally I can wait for the GotY edition or similar where it comes with all DLC. But I still hate it, though.

Scorge
02-18-2012, 08:31 AM
Why is the option "Yoda" on pretty much every poll? LOL

d3sd0
02-18-2012, 05:16 PM
Yoda simply because almost all of the other options bother me.

joesdomain
02-21-2012, 02:05 PM
I am worried about all this online video gaming. I have been a single player video gamer all my life through PS1, PS2 and now PS3. It just discusts me that Lucasarts chose a online only game for PC for the Old republic. Where is non-online single/multiplayer Star Wars Battlefront III for consoles? Star Wars Battlefront I and II were Lucasarts highest selling video games to date. Why cancel the series after making all that money?

Alexrd
02-22-2012, 06:42 AM
Why cancel the series after making all that money?

Who said they cancelled the series?

Lynk Former
02-22-2012, 08:16 AM
They don't cancel anything at LucasArts, they just stop making stuff. It's not a very difficult concept to grasp... technically TOR isn't even a LucasArts game, it's a BioWare game.

LA does nothing.

mimartin
02-22-2012, 04:26 PM
Why is the option "Yoda" on pretty much every poll? LOL

Same reason polls have "None of the above" in them. It gives people something to vote for even if they do not care enough to think about it. Besides "it is tradition and I'm traditional kind of guy." no clue what movie/tv show that line is from

Alexrd
02-22-2012, 05:46 PM
LA does nothing.

When they hire a developer for a Star Wars game (Jedi Outcast, KotOR, TOR, and many others), LucasArts always takes care of the sound design.

Lynk Former
02-22-2012, 07:16 PM
You mean grab pre-existing assets from the huge archive of Star Wars sounds and music in Lucas' empire and forward it to those developers?

Jae Onasi
02-23-2012, 01:29 AM
I voted for DRM, but the other thing that really bugs me is 'day 1 DLC'. Why the hell not include it in the game in the first place?

Sabretooth
02-23-2012, 01:46 AM
I voted for DRM, but the other thing that really bugs me is 'day 1 DLC'. Why the hell not include it in the game in the first place?

Working with that argument fundamentally undermines the idea of DLC altogether. Why charge for extra tidbits you have cooked up after the actual game's development? Why not just give it away like you do with patches?

Hallucination
02-23-2012, 02:19 AM
Yoda, that mothertrucker is showing up everywhere nowadays.

Alexrd
02-23-2012, 06:12 AM
You mean grab pre-existing assets from the huge archive of Star Wars sounds and music in Lucas' empire and forward it to those developers?

Probably. It may not look much, but it saves a huge time during a game development.

Lynk Former
02-23-2012, 10:14 AM
Yeah... the company that made games such as X-Wing are now simply errand boys... kind of like how Rare Ware made games such as Donkey Kong Country and Perfect Dark and now look at where they are... they're nowhere really, they do practically nothing but still exist.

Q
02-26-2012, 02:04 PM
DRM can be gotten around, but a game made for consoles and ported to PC remains a waste.
Pretty much. For me it's a tossup between DRM and the consoletardation of PC games.

joesdomain
02-26-2012, 08:16 PM
Instead of giving us Star Wars Battlefront III. They have two handheld only spinoffs nd release video games based on Star Wars The Clone Wars TV series and Lego Star Wars games. I am sure they probably broke even financially.

Alexrd
02-27-2012, 03:43 PM
Instead of giving us Star Wars Battlefront III. They have two handheld only spinoffs nd release video games based on Star Wars The Clone Wars TV series and Lego Star Wars games. I am sure they probably broke even financially.

No. First, they are not stupid. They know Battlefront III is a most wanted sequel. And as you know, they were already making it for some time. If not for the company making it (Free Radical) went bankrupt, we would already be playing it. Second, they didn't just released the spin-off NDS games of The Clone Wars (and its Lego counterpart). They've also released TFU and TFUII, and SWTOR (whether you like them or not is another issue).

Sith Holocron
02-28-2012, 07:51 AM
I chose "Online activation and online requirement to play (DRM)" but "Console Designed/PC Ported" isn't far behind. I'm in the military and an online option isn't feasible if I'm attached to a unit that's out to sea. For the second choice, I guess I'm really sick of looking Best Buy, Gamestop, Walmart, or any of the "big box stores" and seeing only a few PC games yet seeing so many console games available. I do have a Xbox 360 which I've hardly used and a Wii but when I feel like gaming, it's to the PC I usually go. Let's be honest - modding a game isn't something you'd seek a console out for, it's a PC.

Lynk Former
02-28-2012, 12:53 PM
Developers and publishers don't find profit in the modding of PC games, they find profit in the selling of console games. Until you can find a way for PC developers/publishers to profit as greatly as they have with console games, you're all out of luck.

Kurgan
02-29-2012, 12:18 AM
I wanted to get the demo for the latest Aliens Vs. Predator game. Turns out steam pulled it, so now I can't play it, even if I download it from elsewhere! So while the DRM thing is pretty annoying, [exclusive] digital distribution has its drawbacks as well.

I'll agree console designed can also be annoying (see the Force Unleashed games).

Lynk Former
02-29-2012, 02:30 AM
So basically...

PC port of a console developed game = BAD?
Console port of a PC developed game = I don't care I own a PC!

ChAiNz.2da
02-29-2012, 09:51 AM
So basically...

PC port of a console developed game = BAD?
Console port of a PC developed game = I don't care I own a PC!

Pretty much the mentality I've seen around.

Could be worse though.. developers could say "piss on ya PC owners" and not even bother with a port. Because I can guarantee that if they (developers/studios) had to choose.. the PC is on the lo$ing $ide. ;)

Lynk Former
02-29-2012, 03:31 PM
So with that last post and it's use of the $ symbol, I'm assuming that people think the following...

Game developers and publishers = charity organisations set up just for them

ChAiNz.2da
02-29-2012, 03:57 PM
So with that last post and it's use of the $ symbol, I'm assuming that people think the following...

Game developers and publishers = charity organizations set up just for them

huh? :raise:

I'm just calling it like I see it. More money to be made making console games = pc on the losing side. No delusions of charity in the statement, just cold hard fact about the gaming/development trend.

I seem to recall a similar statement. ;)

Developers and publishers don't find profit in the modding of PC games, they find profit in the selling of console games. Until you can find a way for PC developers/publishers to profit as greatly as they have with console games, you're all out of luck.

Lynk Former
02-29-2012, 04:15 PM
I know, I'm just pointing out the fact that people think that these companies exist purely for them, as if these organisations were created for the very sole purpose of making a game just for *points at someone very specifically* YOU!

But it wasn't an attack on you, chainz... just an observation about gamers in general who can't understand why video game developers want to make money.

ChAiNz.2da
02-29-2012, 04:54 PM
I know, I'm just pointing out the fact that people think that these companies exist purely for them, as if these organisations were created for the very sole purpose of making a game just for *points at someone very specifically* YOU!

But it wasn't an attack on you, chainz... just an observation about gamers in general who can't understand why video game developers want to make money.
No worries man, just was confused. Wanted to confirm that I was agreeing with ya :D

Alexrd
02-29-2012, 05:10 PM
But it wasn't an attack on you, chainz... just an observation about gamers in general who can't understand why video game developers want to make money.

Gamers understand why devs (or should I say, publishers) want to make money. What they are fighting against is the wrong preconception some have against PC gaming. At least I do.

When people say consoles sell more than PC, what exactly are they saying? That 3 different plataforms sell more than one?

Lynk Former
02-29-2012, 06:05 PM
Gamers understand why devs (or should I say, publishers) want to make money. What they are fighting against is the wrong preconception some have against PC gaming. At least I do.

When people say consoles sell more than PC, what exactly are they saying? That 3 different plataforms sell more than one?
I was going to write up a huge post about this but it's easier on all of us just to do dot points...

- You mean 2 consoles, can't count Wii in this since it's not on par with the PS3 and 360.

- PCs are not standardised like consoles are, every PC is different and it takes a lot more time/money/effort for developers to make PC games because of this.

- Console gaming population is huge and still growing and tend to spend A LOT more money than PC gamers do.

- Developers have more control over their games on consoles. Developers/publishers try to exercise this on PC by the way of DRM... which isn't very popular.

- The majority of consumers want accessibility in their games. Insert disc, push start... start playing. Easy. Consoles do this, PC doesn't... developers know this.





...now what I want to know is what are these "wrong preconceptions" developers have of the entire PC gaming platform? I mean, a lot of them have been developing PC games for a long time before they started to trend to consoles. Obviously something is happening that is making them do that... but if they're wrong for doing it, why?

Alexrd
03-01-2012, 10:18 AM
now what I want to know is what are these "wrong preconceptions" developers have of the entire PC gaming platform?

That PC doesn't sell, that DRM protects their games, that piracy affects the sales hugely, etc... Do you really think that if they release a PC version of a game, that they won't have any profit (i.e: doesn't cover the expenses)? Look at The Witcher 2, for example.

I don't mind to wait a year or so for a PC version (we usually get all the DLC). In fact, I understand them when they do that. But giving some poor excuses to not release the game on PC is just stupid. I believe PC sells as much as a single console (if not more).

Lynk Former
03-01-2012, 02:58 PM
I don't think developers/publishers think they WON'T profit from PC games... it's just that most of them think they will get more profits from console games...

- PC games do sell... just not as quickly or as much as most console games unless it can do something a console just cannot... like TOR.

- DRM does protect their games, the more passive methods consoles and Steam employs seems to be pretty acceptable to a lot of people... but as you know, PC gamers draw a line and boycott games if it passes that line (see Mass Effect 3 on Origin).

- Piracy does have an affect, don't think it doesn't. We all do it but don't start thinking there is no affect.

You may have your beliefs but these companies have sales data on their games that seem to suggest that releasing games on a console is more profitable for them than on PC.

I'm not saying that we should like it, but they're not doing this out of some kind of malice or evil plan to take over the world or whatever personal attacks a lot of people feel PC developers are making against them. It's just business... it's the same reason why Nintendo of America didn't want to release Xenoblade, The Last Story and Pandora's Tower in the US... of course that's all fixed now since the success of those games in the EU and AU have changed their minds.

Alexrd
03-01-2012, 03:23 PM
I don't think developers/publishers think they WON'T profit from PC games... it's just that most of them think they will get more profits from console games...

I know. But then isn't it legitimate to ask for a PC version (even if it's released later on)? They have got "nothing" to loose.

- PC games do sell... just not as quickly or as much as most console games unless it can do something a console just cannot... like TOR.

I don't argue that. ;)

- DRM does protect their games, the more passive methods consoles and Steam employs seems to be pretty acceptable to a lot of people... but as you know, PC gamers draw a line and boycott games if it passes that line (see Mass Effect 3 on Origin).

How exactly does DRM protect their games? DRM is cracked mostly before or on the day the game is released. And in the end, the legitimate consumers are the ones who have to deal with it, while the pirates play the "normal version". Is it really worth it? I don't think so.

- Piracy does have an affect, don't think it doesn't. We all do it but don't start thinking there is no affect.

"Hugely" is the key word. ;)

You may have your beliefs but these companies have sales data on their games that seem to suggest that releasing games on a console is more profitable for them than on PC.

On the short run, yes. And as I said, I understand why they want to focus more on the consoles. I only think PC shouldn't be ignored either. And no, they are not charity organizations, but that doesn't make the plea any less valid.

Lynk Former
03-01-2012, 03:31 PM
How does DRM protect games? It doesn't, but it makes the investors of companies feel more secure of their investments.

I don't think any gaming platform should be ignored either but PC developers aren't ignoring the PC. PC games are being released, it's just that they don't take priority over the console versions since the console versions are seen as being more profitable.

However, if you're wondering why certain developers who have always made console games aren't making PC games... it's because they have 0 experience making PC games added on to the fact that they see consoles as being more profitable and secure than the PC platform as a whole.


EDIT: Also, piracy is a huge factor,.. after all, if it had no effect we wouldn't have DRM. The very idea that a company may lose a scrap of profit has made them react to piracy. That's a pretty huge effect, I'd say.

Mav
03-02-2012, 12:28 PM
I'm not voting until "**** DLC" is added to the poll and no I'm not going to pick Yoda because I'm pretty tired of that "trend" too.

mimartin
03-02-2012, 12:56 PM
Happy now Mav? Well I didn't remove Yoda, but I did add DLC.

Have to keep Mav happy, he is the reason I got to 400 in biochem in TOR.

Lynk Former
03-02-2012, 01:25 PM
Admin edited one vote down for me in DLC... it's soooo stupid.

"Let's make an incomplete game! Yeah, people will love that and then we'll get them to pay more for parts of the game we release after launch!"




Also, just to finish off the console thing. Consoles make more money for developer/publishers faster. There really isn't any thought of the long term in this, rather, how much money they can make the quickest to please investors who want high returns quickly. It sucks, but unfortunately that's just the way things go in this business. Of course, through all of this no one has mentioned all of the good things PC gamers get that console gamers don't get... which I find interesting.

mimartin
03-02-2012, 01:52 PM
Of course, through all of this no one has mentioned all of the good things PC gamers get that console gamers don't get... which I find interesting.

Can't speak for all console gamers, but I've been known to buy games for both the console and the PC if the game has more good things for the PC gamers. That is if it isn't mucked up with spyware. I own both ME and ME2 for both the 360 and the PC, ME3 I will only get for the 360.

Working Class Hero
03-03-2012, 06:49 PM
Online activation will make me refuse to buy. Games like Civ 5 have no business requiring steam.

Sabretooth
03-03-2012, 11:46 PM
How exactly does DRM protect their games? DRM is cracked mostly before or on the day the game is released. And in the end, the legitimate consumers are the ones who have to deal with it, while the pirates play the "normal version". Is it really worth it? I don't think so.
As a representative of the Pirate Worker's Union, I'll have you know that pirates do not play any "normal" version. The pirated versions of modern game have to be manually patched, and that is IF a pirate group is kind enough to put up a game's update on the Internet. In 98% of games, there is also no multiplayer on pirated games. A Call of Duty or a Battlefield game could hardly be called "normal" without its multiplayer.

DRM helps protect games. It isn't the company's fault that the DRM ends up cracked by talented pirates. Piracy is a major concern for video game companies and while they can't shoot lawsuits at every torrent site like MPAA, they try to make sure they're trying their level best at the product-end.


On the short run, yes. And as I said, I understand why they want to focus more on the consoles. I only think PC shouldn't be ignored either. And no, they are not charity organizations, but that doesn't make the plea any less valid.

Major companies maybe, but there is actually a very, very large mass of indie games that get released for the PC. Especially thanks to distribution models like Steam, where pretty much anyone with a good game on their hands can get the same platform as Valve or Activision (except in marketing). Then there's companies dedicated to the PC, like Paradox Interactive, who profess to making games that hearken back to the 90s.

Lynk Former
03-04-2012, 12:36 AM
And that's one of the good things about PC gaming as a platform... the fact that it allows smaller and indie developers to do their thing.

Alexrd
03-07-2012, 06:22 AM
DRM helps protect games. It isn't the company's fault that the DRM ends up cracked by talented pirates.

Well, it certainly isn't the legitimate consumer's fault that pirates crack their games. And yet they are the ones who have to deal with DRM every time they want to play the game.

Piracy is a major concern for video game companies and while they can't shoot lawsuits at every torrent site like MPAA, they try to make sure they're trying their level best at the product-end.

I agree that companies should try to protect their products, but not at the expense of legit consumers. In fact, these should be the priority, not the pirates.

Why does a company obliges someone to have an internet access (which is paid), to install a software that doesn't benefit the game, to create an account of said software, login every time they want to play the game, all in order to finally the person who paid the game can enjoy the product (s)he paid for? All this for a single player game like Skyrim and many others. In the end, the pirates are the one who get the "DRM free version", and the consumers are left to deal with all this crap.

Red Hessian
03-08-2012, 04:42 PM
What trend in the gaming industry do you find the most troubling?

1. Online activation and online requirement to play (DRM). 3rd party requirement (Steam to play Skyrim or Origin to play Mass Effect 3).

2. Along the same lines. Digital distribution the move towards no longer having a physical copy and only being able to purchase the game from certain digital distributors (exp Origin)

3. Streamlining games in an attempt to make them more attractive to a wider audience.

4. More and more games being made with consoles in mind and PC just being a ported after thought.

5. More games trying to add multiplayer/co-op


How about: "6. All of the above"?

What happened to the days when you could just go to a store, buy the game on a CD/DVD, install it quick and easy, and play to your heart's content without being angry with the poor consol porting and not worrying if you'll have the money for the multitude of DLC's already announced by the time the game was released...

mimartin
03-09-2012, 11:54 AM
How about: "6. All of the above"?
Nope, because the question is "What trend in the gaming industry do you find the most troubling", not Do you find these trends in the gaming industry troubling. In that case the "All of the above" would be a valid option, but I wanted to know which one everyone found the most troubling, not if they found them all troubling. :D