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View Full Version : Canon and New Movies, Your Opinion?


mimartin
05-06-2013, 10:46 PM
Another Poll Question from Char Ell, so credit, blame goes to him.

In your view how important is it for the new Star Wars movies to not contradict/retcon existing Star Wars canon established by books, comics, and video games of the Expanded Universe set in the time period after Return of the Jedi?

-Utmost importance - the new movies should not retcon anything already established in the post-RotJ EU.

-Fairly important - the new movies should make every effort to not retcon post-RotJ EU but some retcons may be acceptable.

-Indifferent - it's fine if the new movies retcon post-RotJ EU and OK if they don't do any retcons too.

-Not very important - post-RotJ EU isn't much to get excited about, retcons are acceptable and to be expected.

-Not at all important - blow away the entire post-RotJ EU and start fresh!

urluckyday
05-06-2013, 11:10 PM
I'd say that it's of the utmost importance - there's an entire galaxy of content that has been carefully created by talented authors already.

Bob Saget
05-07-2013, 12:49 AM
Post ROTJ EU isn't exactly great other than Kyle Katarn and other various stuff, so I'd be ok for them overriding areas that are crap. However, erasing Kyle Katarn will make me go insane.

Red Hessian
05-07-2013, 04:31 AM
^ Agreed. As long as they keep Kyle Katarn, I'm happy. So I'll go with "Fairly important".

Miltiades
05-07-2013, 08:37 AM
The only thing post-EU that I really liked were the Thrawn trilogy and stuff concerning Kyle Katarn. Other than that, blow away!

Alexrd
05-07-2013, 09:02 AM
As long as they get rid of Sidious' clones, fine by me.

mimartin
05-07-2013, 02:38 PM
Erase Chewie's fate and they can do whatever they want.

Mandalore5
05-07-2013, 03:19 PM
Don't touch Thrawn or Katarn - other than that, no problem.

Lynk Former
05-07-2013, 04:37 PM
Don't touch Thrawn or Katarn - other than that, no problem.
Pretty much.

Darth_Calo
05-07-2013, 07:10 PM
It depends on the canon being contradicted. If they suddenly say "lol JK Yoda didn't die" I'll be annoyed. If they say that there was no truce at Bakura, I'll be fine.

Other than that, Kyle Katarn being there is a must, Rosh Penin is optional, Jaden Korr is optional (mostly because they were relatively minor video game only characters), and the Thrawn Trilogy must be kept intact.

Other than that....Chewie dies? Jacen goes all evil pants? Some fat evil wound-in-the-force/shapeless blob tries to eat Han and Leia's son, conveniently enough named Anakin? It can all be disregarded.

I would enjoy seeing the events of The Courtship of Princess Leia in film, if only because it would 'complete' that arc started in A New Hope

mimartin
05-07-2013, 11:23 PM
I would enjoy seeing the events of The Courtship of Princess Leia in film, if only because it would 'complete' that arc started in A New HopeReally long courtship if they are going to have Carrie Fisher play Leia. :xp:

Darth Avlectus
05-08-2013, 12:55 AM
Going to say fairly. Would say utmost but also recognize a need of creative flexibility sometimes.

I too don't have a problem for retconning canon if it's hurtful to the series or just sucky. Problem is your opinion may differ from the next one's and so-on.

Legacy and its apparent successor...I understand it isn't all that hot, but at least they're trying to come up with new content that is fairly original.

I understand the original trilogy is iconic. However, we need some fresh air. If people cant distinguish Malgus from Vader, or republic troops from clones and stormtroopers? As Ron White would say:

http://www.curtaincalltv.net/uploads/5/4/0/6/5406589/741817_orig.jpg

"There's your sign".


I liked Kyle Katarn's stuff.

Never read the NJO series. So, honestly I can't say I'd be too torn about it if other stuff got nerfed.

Heard thrawn was good but never read it. Yeah, I know, burn the heretic. :roleyess:

So it is what it is. Take it for what you will.

Sabretooth
05-08-2013, 06:37 AM
I don't know or care much about post-RotJ expanded universe, apart from the Yuuzhan Vong and some weird **** like Luke's kids or something, so no, I couldn't care less. Whatever J.J. Abrams does, I'm certain it will be better than what's squatting on the spot right now.

(JJ ABRAMS IF YOU'RE READING THIS READ MY JADEN KORR FANFIC IT IS THE PERFECT SCRIPT)

Pho3nix
05-08-2013, 09:15 AM
Yeah I'm with Sabre on this one... never really delved into EU stuff that much so I'm kinda indifferent. :rhett:

Bob Saget
05-08-2013, 10:30 AM
(JJ ABRAMS IF YOU'RE READING THIS READ MY JADEN KORR FANFIC IT IS THE PERFECT SCRIPT)

Offtopic - can you link me to it in a pm? sounds intriguing.

Either way, I doubt Disney will retcon too much, though I'd be happy to see the Emperor's clones gone. What a disastrous story that was.

Darth_Calo
05-08-2013, 10:31 AM
Really long courtship if they are going to have Carrie Fisher play Leia. :xp:

Ha! Yes, well, maybe they find new actress to portray Leia.

And a new actor for Han
And a new actor for Luke

Yes, I know I speak blasphemy by suggesting that, but none of the "big three" stars from A New Hope - Return of the Jedi have aged particularly well.

GeneralPloKoon
05-08-2013, 01:41 PM
I love alot of the EU so I picked Fairly Important, some parts of the EU can have silly stuff so I wouldn't mind a little recon here and there. I really hope the EU stays intact, the many authors who have worked in the EU has made a great effort in having a stable continuity, for the most part. And things that are retconned I wouldn't mind having rewrites or additions.

I think the Halo novel The Fall of Reach had some changes after the release of Halo:Reach due to the game kinda changing some things that didn't match with the novel.

Jamps
05-08-2013, 03:01 PM
I'd like to see them wipe the slate clean so-to-speak and retcon the post-ROTJ EU. That being said, I would love to see them pull characters and ideas from that content to make a new, untold story. Its going to be interesting to see what they do...

mimartin
05-08-2013, 04:02 PM
Yes, I know I speak blasphemy by suggesting that, but none of the "big three" stars from A New Hope - Return of the Jedi have aged particularly well. Harrison Ford aged extremely well, he is just 70 years old now. Hell he was still convincingly playing his type of action hero in his 60's.

In Fisher case, to borrow from Ford's list of famous lines, "It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage."

urluckyday
05-08-2013, 08:26 PM
Could you imagine a movie that stars Kyle Katarn?! That'd be great!

Darth Avlectus
05-08-2013, 11:03 PM
Hell yeah! I'd totally go for it. From the first Dark Forces. That's one exception I would make if they were to trot back in on original trilogy territory.

Darth_Calo
05-09-2013, 12:22 AM
Harrison Ford aged extremely well, he is just 70 years old now. Hell he was still convincingly playing his type of action hero in his 60's.

In Fisher case, to borrow from Ford's list of famous lines, "It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage."

maybe; maybe. but if they get a younger actress for Leia they have to do the same for Han. In my opinion.

I saw Mark Hamil on an episode of Chuck a while back -- 2011 maybe--didn't look like the same guy.

purifier
05-09-2013, 02:40 PM
I believe it's necessary and fairly important, especially with the intro of Kyle Katarn. But something tells me they're not going to go that way.

Tommycat
05-09-2013, 07:06 PM
I think the majority of the post ROTJ canon can be sent to the circular file for all I care. I seriously hope they do it justice, and make it new again.

Q
05-17-2013, 12:02 AM
The only thing post-EU that I really liked were the Thrawn trilogy and stuff concerning Kyle Katarn. Other than that, blow away!
This.

They can just flush the rest. :D

noizer
05-19-2013, 05:48 AM
Don't touch Thrawn or Katarn - other than that, no problem.

i agree.

DAWUSS
05-28-2013, 06:23 PM
I'd say it's important (even with as much crap as the EU contains), but I have a feeling there will be a massive retcon session going on at Wookieepedia once the new trilogies come out.

K_Kinnison
07-12-2013, 01:12 PM
Bad enough that GL retconned his original movies. But for Disney to smear the original movies with a crap sandwich in an attempt to re-imagine it would be a travesty

Darth Xander
07-18-2013, 08:51 AM
It'd be great if it was centered about the Old Republic times, but I highly doubt that would happen. A few references would be great, but I do think they should stick to canon.

Lord Foley
08-09-2013, 12:28 AM
I want them to ignore EU canon completely.

Totenkopf
09-06-2013, 02:04 AM
Lots of mediocre stuff since original series. Doubt most people would know what got nerfed if they did contradict it....until some enraged fanboy made a stink. Even then....most probably woudn't care. Thrawn best of lot, Rogue Squadron stuff wasn't too bad. Katarn can stay too. the rest........

Prime
09-06-2013, 03:24 PM
If it got rid of the Vong I'd be cool with that. As would having Chewie back.

Totenkopf
09-07-2013, 02:57 AM
^^yeah, SW w/o Chewie not really right.

Darth_Calo
09-24-2013, 10:20 PM
I was thinking about it. I'd accept a "midquel" of sorts. Think Lion King 1 1/2. Between A New Hope and Empire Strikes back. What other systems does Vader search? Other stuff as well. Or maybe between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope. The Great Jedi Purge took a long time, and there was nearly 20 years between ROTS and ANH.

Oh and I selected "Yoda" because if they could work Yoda into it, that would make it better. I think so at least.

Zerimar Nyliram
10-17-2013, 10:12 AM
I would be fine with very, very minor events being rewritten, rearranged, or overridden, but deleting whole chunks like the Yuuzhan Vong War, or major events like the deaths of Chewie or the Solo kids is just going too far, regardless of how the public feels about these events. I will not consider the new films canon if they do.

And honestly, I don't understand why everyone is so butt hurt over Chewie's death. In fiction, as in real life, people die. This included likable characters. Loss is real and isn't choosy.

Redwing
10-24-2013, 07:03 PM
Honestly, I think it would be better to completely ignore every facet of it. The current universe can officially be an AU.

I really can't see any good story being written within the constraints of the EU. And I loved a lot of the EU.

Also, making a totally different canon means that the writers have the option to include stuff we all love (or that at least some of us love).

However... I really want them to include some of the the EU characters if possible. Tell completely different stories with them, or even relegate them to cameos, but I'd love to see Thrawn, Mara Jade, and other iconic characters like that make appearances or play roles.

But let's be honest, a large amount of the EU stuff is either crap or works well but could easily make the new movies crap if they tried to stick to it. I'm willing to be proven wrong here, but I doubt I will be.

Zerimar Nyliram
10-30-2013, 10:07 AM
To me, that would be a major sellout for Star Wars since the whole alternate universe thing (where everything outside of the movies is not recognized, and its continuity is not heeded between authors) is something that Star Wars has not suffered from, as opposed to, say, Star Trek. It was the first franchise to take such a thing seriously, and others have since followed suit. To go back on that would be a slap in the face to the other writers as well as their fans.

Now, I'm not suggesting meticulous adherence to the EU. Certain events can be retconned, rewritten, or even overridden (but not major events, like Chewie's death or the whole Yuuzhan Vong War, as others here have suggested). After all, the EU itself does this all the time with new material. I'm suggesting adhering to the general timeline as a whole, as well as its events.

Redwing
11-08-2013, 08:56 PM
To me, that would be a major sellout

...sell...out...?

This doesn't fit any definition of "sellout" that I have ever been aware of.

Also understand that I'm not speaking of in-story alternate universes. Just separate canons.

I think the writers should be free to do what they want. If they want to include the Vong and offing Chewie, then sure. If they don't, then, well, forget it.

Zerimar Nyliram
11-13-2013, 11:35 PM
.Also understand that I'm not speaking of in-story alternate universes. Just separate canons.

I . . . I know. I don't see how my post implied anything different.

Redwing
11-18-2013, 12:33 PM
I . . . I know. I don't see how my post implied anything different.

I think I got confused with regards to your comparison to Star Trek, then.

CommanderAwesome
12-22-2013, 01:30 PM
They should try to make as valid a story as possible if they want to please the fanbase, but some retcons are inevitable. Just make sure they're minor.

The Republic and Empire have cooler looking ships? Go right ahead!
The Second Imperium crisis (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Imperium_Crisis) happened earlier? We'll get used to it.
There was no New Jedi Order? Not gunna happen!
Palpatine wasn't cloned? :argh:
Kyle Katarn didn't exist? I disapprove.

And so on.

urluckyday
12-23-2013, 07:42 PM
I'd be so pumped if there was Kyle Katarn in the new movies!

Ferrin13
03-14-2014, 11:08 PM
If they want to change some stuff from comics or low release books, that's fine. But if they touch the Zahn books I really am going to be upset. There is absolutely no reason for Disney to mess around with those books.

Ferrin13
03-14-2014, 11:12 PM
What? You don't think Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill look like people ready to swing lightsabers and lead the New Republic? Blasphemy!

duster
03-15-2014, 10:47 AM
Would be ineresting to see the new movies focus on Luke and Kyle.Mabye about their history,how they met...mabye Kyle's fall to the dark side and his return.But that wouldn't take the focus that much on Luke as much as it would on Kyle wich is fine by me.Hopefully they will keep the original cast,introduce Kyle's character and mabye the new movies be actually be bout him.

Gurges-Ahter
04-18-2014, 01:34 PM
I think there's very little chance that the new movies will discuss pretty much anything from the EU at all, unless it's a nod here and there, or the powers-that-be happen to like a character that could fit in the new story.

And personally, even as a fan of the EU, I'm totally fine with that. Much of the EU contradicts itself already - that doesn't make me like any of it less. The Clone Wars animated series also contradicted much of the EU - those books and other media can still be enjoyed even though they are against a higher level of canon. The Clone Wars also borrowed here and there from the EU, which was nice to see at times.

I prefer it when the creators are big fans of the saga, and show reverence toward it. This was the case for Dave Filoni and The Clone Wars, and I feel is probably also true for JJ Abrams. It's in good hands. But EU stories aren't going to be on the silver screen... they just aren't Ep VII movie material.

Redwing
05-01-2014, 12:42 AM
Well...

Lucasfilm has decanonized the entire present EU, to make for a new slate of expanded universe stuff.

Old-EU elements can potentially be brought into the new EU in another form, but beyond that... yeah.

Judging from the poll results, this could have interesting reactions from SW fandom overall...

Darth Avlectus
05-04-2014, 02:56 AM
^^Slight correction, Red: Disney actually made that decision. GL is just an advisory figure.

So far, it's getting a predicted reaction, a catch 22. They love the new move for getting rid of things they didn't like, they bemoan it for getting rid of what they did like.

Redwing
05-05-2014, 09:46 PM
^^Slight correction, Red: Disney actually made that decision. GL is just an advisory figure.

So far, it's getting a predicted reaction, a catch 22. They love the new move for getting rid of things they didn't like, they bemoan it for getting rid of what they did like.

Nope, I was correct the first time. Lucasfilm was bought by Disney, along with the Star Wars franchise, so I did in fact meant to say Lucasfilm. Lucasfilm is, of course, part of Disney, so yes, Disney, but that's not a correction. ;)

I normally wouldn't make such a nitpicky counter-correction, but this has been the response literally every time that I've heard this brought up! ;P I think it's something about how people instinctively want to frame things...

I think it'll be interesting to see what elements get brought back into the new canon and what stays left out...

Darth Avlectus
05-07-2014, 03:59 PM
Nope, I was correct the first time. Lucasfilm was bought by Disney, along with the Star Wars franchise, so I did in fact meant to say Lucasfilm. Lucasfilm is, of course, part of Disney, so yes, Disney, but that's not a correction. ;)

I normally wouldn't make such a nitpicky counter-correction, but this has been the response literally every time that I've heard this brought up! ;P I think it's something about how people instinctively want to frame things...

Nah you didn't come across as nitpicky. Humorous rather. Nice distinction there: LucasFilms, that is now Disney, and not the man himself.
--TBH I still blame him ...to some extent. :dev9:

I think it'll be interesting to see what elements get brought back into the new canon and what stays left out...

Darth Bane was part of the original work, so that will remain. But I hear his apprentice was "supposed to be" male. Obviously Revan's holocron will not be part of it anymore. So I guess we're back to the comic Bane of the Sith.

Kurgan
06-27-2014, 05:41 PM
I wonder what EU stuff people are comfortable with losing. Is it just stuff that's older (nostalgia)? People want to keep the Zahn stuff, but I'm guessing not the earlier Marvel Comics stuff? They want to jettison the new stuff like New Jedi Order but not Clone Wars or Old Republic?

The Kevin J. Anderson stuff and the Stackpole stuff was ruthlessly mocked, but it formed the backbone for a lot of stuff that was to come later. Few remember the Alan Dean Foster stuff or the things that were ignored from the Radio Dramas or film novelizations. People apparently loved Infinities even though it was never canon. Let's not forget the "Tales" series, inventing improbable backstories for every background character ever glimpsed in the movies.

And we all recall the endless fascination with the Holiday Special (and especially the Boba Fett cartoon which I'm not sure how anyone can rationalize as being in continuity with the movies). Then you get our own Jedi Outcast which basically rips off "I, Jedi."

Some of the EU stuff is really popular, others of it has nostalgia for certain fans. If they use any of the EU, it's going to upset some people. Some of the older EU stuff was derived from unused concepts from the original Trilogy production, but it's no more "canon" than anything else. They're starting over.

It's funny though, even as I'm talking about this, it sounds like I'm imagining Disney execs in Spielbergian space suits kicking down doors and grabbing EU novels, games, comics and toys out of the hands of fans and slamming the doors in their faces. Or fans lining up to toss all their Star Wars merch into a big bonfire in front of a giant statue of Bob Iger. Nothing is really "going away" it's just what stuff would be considered relevant to the new movies and movie spinoff stuff.

So this will determine if they'll mention Mara Jade or the Vong in the Episode VII novelization. Will somebody cry in the theater if Mark Hamill doesn't get a red headed former Palpatine lackey as his spouse? If Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher have force-sensitive children that aren't a set of twins named Jaina and Jacen and another son named Anakin? If Luke doesn't start a "Jedi Academy" at the Massassi Temple on Yavin IV? If Kyle Katarn isn't mentioned somewhere for all the stuff he did in the old EU? Chances are they could just not mention any of the stuff, but if it's touching on the "personal histories" of the main cast from the Original Trilogy, I guess somebody will be miffed that their favorite thing was left out.

I couldn't care less what they do, so long as the new movies are good. They should at least be better than the prequels. I would say they should be in strict continuity with the old movies, but Lucas messed around so much with the continuity already, I'm not sure that's practical.

I could dream that they'd really only acknowledge the Original Trilogy, but since the Prequels were so hyped up so recently, I can't imagine they'd be paid any less attention. But there's a difference between essential plot points vs. name-dropping fanservice. Like do we need a scene of the principals meeting an elderly Jar Jar in the nursing home?

I'm not mocking people who liked the EU through all its twists and turns. I am a little amused by the idea that we're freaking out over some fictional side stories not being taken into consideration with this newest set of sequels to this fictional franchise. If the new stuff is just as good or better, enough people will buy it that they won't care who was upset.

So how best to appeal to old fans while drawing in new ones?

Kurgan
06-27-2014, 05:59 PM
That is a good question though... will the "G-canon" stuff outside the films be kept as well or will it be thrown into the bin with the rest of the EU?

We've got the screenplays, movie novelizations, radio dramas... and the "T-Canon" of the CG Clone Wars movie and tv-series. Is that staying too? I personally don't care if all or none of either set is "kept" but I'm curious. Will they clarify that now, or do like they've done in the past and clarify it every few years from now until after the movies are out?

Will RPG players get upset if there's a bunch of changes to the games based on the new movies?