View Full Version : Doesn't look like OUTCAST is following MOTS...

10-14-2001, 02:03 PM
It doesn't look like JEDI OUTCAST will be a sequel to MYSTERIES OF THE SITH, judging from the screenshots. Kyle had gray temples in MOTS, remember? He doesn't have them here.

Personally, I think it's for the best. MOTS struck me as a rushed attempt to cash in on JEDI KNIGHT, and while it was great fun, it just didn't have the depth of JK. JK had an interesting storyline and levels that were thrilling to go through, and MOTS doesn't compare, in my opinion.

Also, there are too many continuity errors. Mara Jade doesn't seem to know Kyle in the Expanded Universe novels, and she's still using the blue saber Luke gave her. I didn't particularly like making Kyle a man who was so easily turned over to the Sith, either, and I'd be glad to see that excised from DARK FORCES history.

I'm looking forward to the game. I hope Jan Ors is in it; she rules. Hopefully, they can get Jason Court and Angela Harry to reprise their roles; they weren't the best in the live-action cutscenes, but their voiceover work was good.

Although I sure wish Kyle had kept the cleanshaven look -- I get the feeling marketing saw the sales on SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE and wanted Katarn to have a Dash Rendar look...

- Ibrahim Ng

10-14-2001, 02:23 PM
That goatee is tho latht theason. :rolleyes: :D

I don't think the majority of people here are that bothered about the way he looks in regards to facial hair but as long as the voices are realistic enough I will be pleased.

(welcome to the forums BTW) :0)


Randle Crow
10-14-2001, 03:35 PM
A person that has made 566 posts welcoming someone that has made only a single post seeing this makes tears of joy stream down my face. (Creed with arms wide open.)

All cutscenes will be done in game. :(

Where is my November issue of PCGamer?

10-14-2001, 04:20 PM
well i think that outcast will follow MotS somewhat, because i believe it was said that Kyle had given up the force and his lightsaber for fear of turning to the darkside again... he had given his saber to luke, and when a new evil arises, he has to get his saber back from luke to battle it...

10-14-2001, 06:54 PM
awww shucks :o

You want to see GonkH8ter, he's a real softie.. :D

I think that you will really enjoy yourself here, it has the best spirit here in any forum I have been to..


10-14-2001, 07:02 PM
*wakes up*

huh...what? someone new? oh hi

*goes back to sleep*

Welcome to jkii.net!

10-14-2001, 07:35 PM
Kyle's gray temples...

10-14-2001, 07:53 PM
mots rules. i love how kyle goes insane.

i'm getting this for ps2. :D

10-14-2001, 07:59 PM

But... they *have* to disregard MOTS! It doesn't fit in with any of the novels.

Okay, yeah, his temples look gray, but they're not half as gray as they were in MOTS.

Awwwww... rats. Okay, I admit it. I was hoping they'd forget MOTS.

Well, admittedly, it HAS been ten years since JEDI KNIGHT.

I really did hope OUTCAST would replace MOTS.

- Ibrahim Ng

10-14-2001, 09:00 PM
hehehehehe i don't read most of the novels, just the bounty hunter trilogy (which is awesome, i need to find book 3 tho!!!) and some of the xwing series (stupid bookstore doesn't have the 2 after wraith squadron darn them i think i'll just get the next one they have and reread the series hehe).

I wonder if they'll have any Ubese aliens in it, i mean, cmon, i thought star wars has many aliens, not just gran, rodian, weequay, and tusken..there were a TON in the mos espa stadium, what happeneds in episode 2, does the force kill them all or something?

10-14-2001, 09:01 PM
hey, in that picture it looks like kyle has been using rogaine! lol

10-14-2001, 09:28 PM
Yeah, I have'nt played MOTS, but it seems to be a rip off to me. But how the hell could Kyle turn to the dark side so easilery?

10-14-2001, 09:38 PM
this is the second time i saw someone saying there are getting JK2 for PS2.

i thought JK2 was a pc only game?

10-14-2001, 11:18 PM
well, there's alot of rumors, and lec is going to port it to ps2 as well as pc or i'll go to their house everynight for supper.

10-14-2001, 11:57 PM
Impulse49:Mara Jade doesn't seem to know Kyle in the Expanded Universe novels,
Just curious, how would you know this? Can you give an example?

she's still using the blue saber Luke gave her.

Such a minor detail, but again, how do you know? Example?

I didn't particularly like making Kyle a man who was so easily turned over to the Sith

I actually liked the idea of the struggle. It was an interesting twist.

Besides, this game won't be called Jedi Outcast for nothing! :)

10-15-2001, 12:27 AM
In two of the Timothy Zahn novels, SPECTRE OF THE PAST and VISION OF THE FUTURE, which chronologically closed out the Bantam Books series, Luke discusses lightsabers with Mara and gives her some tips for "when you build your own." And in these books, Mara is *still* using the blue saber that Luke gave her. Yet, MOTS said that Mara built her own lightsaber; the purple one. The books don't acknowledge anything that happened to Mara when she was with Kyle.

Also, MOTS has Mara acting as an agent for the New Republic when the books, including SPECTRE OF THE PAST and VISION OF THE FUTURE, show her to be working for the smugglers, but helping out Luke and company on occasion. While she's sympathetic to them, she's certainly not taking orders from New Republic generals, as was seen in MOTS.

Also, Mara recounts her history as a Jedi, and Kyle Katarn isn't mentioned.

I didn't like making Kyle the bad guy, simply because he's the hero of DARK FORCES and JEDI KNIGHT. He's the hero, and I want to be him when playing a DARK FORCES game. I didn't like seeing the hero of those two games go bad just so there'd be an antagonist for Mara.

I am still hoping that OUTCAST ignores MOTS, like the rest of the expanded universe, and just starts from where JEDI KNIGHT left off. His story is far from over, and he deserves better than being relegated to second string in his own series.

Sure wish he didn't have the gray temples, though... Maybe what the OUTCAST story will do is quietly ignore MOTS; not blatantly contradict it (by having the gray temples), but not acknowledge it either. Kyle's fear of the dark side could be described as just that without attaching it to a specific event, so you could assume it was the events of MOTS, or because he almost killed Jan in JEDI KNIGHT.

- Ibrahim Ng

[ October 14, 2001: Message edited by: Impulse49 ]

Randle Crow
10-15-2001, 12:33 AM
Kyle is useing Just for Men.

The game is called Jedi Outcast because Kyle has mastered both sides of the force at one time or the other. No other Jedi has ever did this at this time in the starwars universe. (Luke does later on) Anywho...

No plans are in place for Jedi Outcast to be on anything but PC!!!!!! :D

The people that made MOTS ripped everything off JK thats why everyone hates it. Story line was cool. :)

10-15-2001, 12:41 AM
nm, i was just going on one of my caffine insanity rages. i'm fine now, my computer asked me very, very, VERY kindly to upgrade it in the middle of one of my ps2 gamecube debates i made (which actually burnt off the caffine, but it was funny anyways, i'll give the link to it so u can all laugh your heads off at me) I'm going to take at least $200, and get a agp adapter thingy or is it ati i don't know and get a geforce 3, and also get some more ram. not sure if it'd make anything go faster, what do u all think?

Darth Lunatic
10-15-2001, 02:17 AM
MOTS had more hardcore Jedi action than the first Jedi Knight did. The level design played a big part in this, there were more force powers and some kickass lightsaber related death and/or mayhem

Although the game obviously had a low budget (in game cinematics compared to FMV in the first JK), it was still a heap of fun, and i really enjoyed the story. The game was a lot darker than Jedi Knight was. More nightmarish if you will, which is what i love!! Dromuund Kaas had a great atmosphere, in fact i think it should somehow be involved in Jedi Outcasts story. They have to relate Outcast to MOTS!!

[ October 14, 2001: Message edited by: Darth Lunatic ]

Kurt Plummer
10-15-2001, 03:34 AM
Given that they treat things like the 'throw lightsaber' as if it was a /new/ thing it's pretty clear that, for marketing reasons if nothing else, (JK=long time ago JKO=new sales for a new crowd) MOTS doesn't exist.

MOTS was okay in someways. The active lighting was cool and I enjoyed the Hutt-lair levels and the ship agrav areas but found that playing Mara Jade was boring as well as weak with her being so slow on defense and SO vulnerable to personal damage without counteracting 'female strengths' of mind-Force or whatever.

To be frank: the final levels on Dromund Kaas were an absolute blood bath with the girl unable to deflect the little flower dart gamingus' and frustrating me with her lack of mirror-matched capabilities (damage and force power use) against the doppleganger.

The Stone Tigers were worse, running me over from within tight battlespaces where it was swing blade or DIE!

Without MUCH faster force-recharge from such a 'live' planet; I went from inviso-assassin to tired of the crap invulnerable mode for much of the level (the vamp-ghoul thingies I never really 'fought' so I have no clue how bad they were...).

The overall feel was like the difference between Alien-1/2 with a high tech-confidence-if-not-competence-meets-
ancient-bio-horror kind of universal conflict theme vs. Alien-3 where you were in some kind of Carnival Halloween funhouse environment that basically bit it big time if only because they killed off all the characters you cared about with such ease.

DK, even though it's motif was not altogether different from say Yodas little 'Marine Corp Boot Camp In Cajun Swamp Decor', was similar and the sudden shift of contiguity to a save-the-man-not-the-universe kind of plotline also ruined the feel of the entire game, IMO.

Mara is a smuggler, if you are going to make it 'personal' (her struggle with old way of life vs. new Jedi responsibilities), it would have been FAR better if you had simply left her to duke it out in that environment.

As for beards and such, it seems to be a constant them of Lucas (see new Ewan McGregor Obi Wan EP.2 'look') that as men grow old they grow fashion-face-hair like a mane to match their 'experience'.

It is a fairly common theme in the societies (Indian, Sikh, Chinese Braid etc.) whose legends and 'Power of Myth' storylines he takes the SW conflict resolutions from.

Ugly as hell (bad for field discipline/hygiene, unwise for combat with burn weapons etc.) but then again it was also ugly to see Kyle as a grey-tinged middle age man when you would think that they could stave off the effects of aging with either Jedi or Biogenetic-engineering 'power'.

Jedi are best served young with a garnish of rashness so that they have the physical ability to get out of dumb situations they put themselves into. Old Men just die badly.

Kurt Plummer

Darth Lunatic
10-15-2001, 05:44 AM
The Stone Tigers were worse, running me over from within tight battlespaces where it was swing blade or DIE!

The vornskrrs i think your talking about. There not stone but organic like you and me. What a great enemy they were! Finally a challenging enemy, that took some careful preplanning to take them out. The strategy often involved using sabre throw against them, then taking another quicking swing.

To be frank: the final levels on Dromund Kaas were an absolute blood bath

I know! How cool are blood baths!!

10-15-2001, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by wardz:

You want to see GonkH8ter, he's a real softie.. :D

AY! i aint no softy........ kinda...... sorta...... well...... hrmmmmmmm........ shut up :(

10-15-2001, 08:50 PM
I don't have a lot of time to type anything long-winded right now, so I'll put my two cents in in the following way:

MOTS kicked arse.

Thankyou, and good night. :D

10-15-2001, 09:04 PM
Encore Encore!! Thats beautiful! Say it again Ed!. :D

short and to the point, a good one at that.


10-16-2001, 03:13 AM
MoTS was excellent. It was only an expansion pack after all... and it obviously had a pretty low budget.. But, when it got going, the plot was pretty cool, and having kyle almost turn to the dark side was a great idea... flawed heroes are always much more interesting, and the ending just fitted in really well with the feel of starwars.

The whole bit with the Holocron was a bit crap, plot wise, they never really explained what the hell it was. But MOST of the levels were excellent, and for an expansion pack they added a hell of a lot, an almost new cast of enemies, coloured lights, new powers, friendly forces (well they tried ;))

Compare that to most expansion packs where you get 3 new enemies, a new weapon and a some levels and it was pretty good value.

The spaceport levels had a cool feel where you could wander round and not everyone seemed to be after you.

Carbonite gun sucked, and why did they get rid of force throw??? Mara rocked.

ps/ at least this looks more like a beard, rather than that terrible goatee, and the bigger palette makes the grey look more natural.

pps/ who cares about lightsaber colours??? i think some people who read EVERY novel are getting pretty picky about consistency... :(

10-16-2001, 04:38 AM
Are you sure Kyle turned to the dark side?

I find it highly unlikely that Kyle became a Dark Jedi, however temporarily. He already faced the dark side in JEDI KNIGHT, when he was tempted to murder Jan, cut his ties to anything good in his life, and to take the power of the Valley for himself. He didn't turn. He stayed true to the light side. The game said so between the cutscenes, and I don't think Justin Chin would lie to me. :-)

I was not convinced by Kyle's turning to the dark side in MOTS. We didn't even *see* it happen. He just jumps to the dark side and back.

I also find it highly questionable whether or not Kyle actually turned in MOTS. I don't think whoever wrote MOTS had any idea what the Sith was. They depicted it as just another Force using religion. The creators probably didn't know the Sith were the Dark Jedi until THE PHANTOM MENACE came out.

MOTS is vague and sloppy on these points; Kyle's supposedly turning over to the Sith, the status of Jan Ors, the various aesthetics, like the sabers, and the lack of continuity with the rest of the Expanded Universe. The game isn't even sure what the Sith is. For those reasons, I think MOTS should be ignored. (And I think that it is. They aged Kyle for OUTCAST, but he's back in his regular clothes and out of the MOTS black uniform.)

I don't like the gray temples... but admittedly, Kyle is ten years older than he was at the end of JEDI KNIGHT.

I hope that OUTCAST disregards MOTS, but what I think will happen is this: OUTCAST will not refer directly to MOTS, but will not go out of its way to contradict it, either. It will probably go against MOTS in order to keep continuity with other Expanded Universe stories, and it probably won't refer to anything in MOTS like the events on Dromund Kaas or Mara's training, but it will refer to a vaguely defined event in which Kyle almost turned to the dark side -- leaving it to the discretion of the individual gamer whether it was almost killing Jan or joining the Sith.

So, I'm guessing that if we ask the creators whether MOTS happened or not, the response will be, "Up to you."

- Ibrahim Ng

10-22-2001, 04:46 PM
I agree, MotS is like its own story solely based on star wars ideas. JK was derived off of Dark Forces' story which will be expanded into JK2 hopefully.

Also I'm glad JK2 isn't following MotS. Go read Mara Jade books instead if you're into that stuff.

[ October 22, 2001: Message edited by: Bart-=[JCS]=- ]

10-22-2001, 10:41 PM
COnsidering Lucas seems to be making this stuff up as he goes along it isn't suprising if the sith in MoTS vary from the ones in TPM. Although the ones in MoTS seem more in tune with the original movies, not something you could ever acuse TPM of being ;)

I don't think that just because Kyle didn't kill his best friend in JK that means he is now immune to all temptation from the dark side. The idea of a place being strong in the dark side (and even facing yourself there) comes directly from the movies... although they never really explained it then either...but it was definately something that could be expanded on.

The kyle thing is basically a copied Vader deal, good jedi turns bad and then returns to the light side when a good jedi friend refuses to fight him. Seems well in the feel of starwars to me.

It would have been cool if it had branched too... and allowed mara to join him, or maybe even strike him down and take his place as an evil jedi... but i guess it was only and expansion pack, and all these branching storylines play havoc with trying to get some continuity between novels.

And since the only bit of plot we know about explicitly refers to Mots (giving up saber and becoming recluse because of turning to the dark side, hence having both side's powers) i don't see how you can assume that they are gonna ignore it.

I seem to remember somewhere that EB or some other store was gonna bundle together JK and MoTS so people could catch up on all of Kyle's backstory.

10-23-2001, 12:17 AM
TomS, I totally agree.

And you're right about Jedi Knight being available again. ;)

[ October 22, 2001: Message edited by: StormHammer ]

10-23-2001, 01:11 AM
in the PC Gamer:

"Jedi Outcast cover the period of my career beginning about eight years after the events chronicled in Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith. If You'll recall, I had narrowingly averted losing my sould to the Dark Side of the Force, and had vowed to never again use my considerable Force powers. I'd even handed my lightsaber over to Luke Skywalker."

it does follow MOTS. thought you oughta know


Philbo - The Lightsaber-Welding, Sombrero-Throwing, Semi-Italian Low-Level Government Worker!

10-23-2001, 11:35 PM
Ok Im new but not to JK or MotS.
The idea that MotS sucked is a little crazy most who say they dont like it never played it or liked using guns more than sabers.I dont know why MotS is so unpopular but from a game perspective it was more lightsaber orented and force push and lightsaber throw...mmm those are in JKO(the force powers and MP experince was much better in mots than in JK.BGJ and Oasis sucked for sabers i mean all that space is for force speed n Conc. killings.Any how MotS is better gameplay and MP the classes are awsome scouts jedi Bounty hunters and soliders oh my..it made for better ballance only thing i hate is the carbonite gun that was dumb.Mara is cool.period.and read the latest stuff mots isnt forgotten other wise how would he be a jedi outcast and remember luke is his master....Thanks for reading goto www.futurelooks.com (http://www.futurelooks.com) for cool stuff like the xbox and gamecube hands on reveiws...

Darth Lunatic
10-24-2001, 12:18 AM
I fully agree with you I man!

I found the single player experience of MOTS contained a lot more hardcore Jedi lightsaber action. I almost never use guns in MOTS. To top that off the last level you could only use your lightsaber, since your guns wouldnt work on Dromuund Kaas. That was the best level out of all Jedi Knight and MOTS combined IMO.

Even multiplayer MOTS was more fun. With the inclusion of saber throw, lightsaber fights became even cooler. I always played cloud city gantry (where vader cuts lukes hand off) multiplayer, more than any other level.

Yes, and Kyle has stopped using the force, because of the events on Droumuud Kaas, where he succuumbed to the dark side of the force. So the backstory of JKO is heavily related to MOTS.


[ October 23, 2001: Message edited by: Darth Lunatic ]

10-24-2001, 07:39 AM
Aaaaahhhh.....nothing more fun then hacking up Sith statues :D

Darth Lunatic
10-24-2001, 09:07 AM
Damn straight! :D :D :D

10-24-2001, 04:03 PM
for a mo there, I thought that statue had a lightstaff.

Just the way it looks.


10-24-2001, 07:08 PM
lol, i can see it too wardz...

i always enjoyed playing MotS online more too, but there never seemed to be as many people to play with anymore...