PDA

View Full Version : Possibility of face animation.......


CaptainRAVE
09-18-2001, 07:53 PM
This would be cool and possible with the Geforce 3, which is one of the main features of it. Any opinions??

StormHammer
09-18-2001, 08:39 PM
Well, they're implementing that in SOF2...and I don't think it's dependent on the graphics card. So why not JK2?

It wouldn't be much good for the Stormies, though. ;)

Rancor
09-18-2001, 09:19 PM
I'm assuming they'll have to have some sort of facial animation system in...EF had it, though I think it was done with textures since their modeling system wasn't true skeletal. Also, it in no way would be dependent on having a GeForce3 though seeing as how Ghoul2 is already fully skeletal...they would just have to plop a few bones in the face, then create the appropriate animations, I suppose. I wouldn't expect too much in this area since it would probably only affect cinematics, assuming they aren't using pre-rendered ones....or filmed ones....

Ice Man
09-18-2001, 09:49 PM
Well I would like perhaps just a few expressions on peoples faces. Unlike Max Payne: same old grimace on every screenshot I've seen of that game :).

Kurgan
09-18-2001, 09:56 PM
Yeah, that would be nice, rather than having characters who speak without moving their lips (while gesturing wildly) or the cheesy "animated texture" mouth used in Shadow Man or for Mon Mothma in that MotS cutscene.

The best lip moving w/ voice acting I've seen outside of cutscenes in a game is that used in Half Life.

Anyway, I thought it had been established that the cutscenes used would be "game engine" based, meaning in-game animation, rather than pre-rendered using live actors or CGI...

Kurgan

[ September 18, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

Seryl Cann
09-19-2001, 09:02 AM
In-game cutscenes can also mean recorded movies made using the game engine and maybe touched up a little. But I think the cutscenes will be a bit like some of the things we saw in Elite Force. They also had prerendered cutscenes, but I'm talking about the in-game ones.

Kurgan
09-19-2001, 02:37 PM
True. Guess we'll need Raven to help clarify.

Update: The recent PCGamer article on JK2 seemed to indicate we can expect animated faces when conversing...

Kurgan

[ September 23, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

Jolts
09-20-2001, 06:48 AM
All facial animations are for noraml 3d animation is morph targets(blend shapes) It wouldn't be hard to add them into jko. The face models would need some detail to pull off some nice expressions,which they have.It would be more of a time thing for raven I think.

It would be a sin not to have blend shapes in the cutscenes or normal gameplay with 3000 poly characters in my opinion.

DrIfTeR
09-20-2001, 06:59 AM
havinf facial expressions would be cool,but if it were like max payne with the same look on his face all the time would suck.

StormHammer
09-20-2001, 06:39 PM
Just for anyone who may have missed what Raven are doing with their Ghoul 2 tech in Soldier Of Fortune 2, here are some (small) pics they released showing facial animation...

http://www.storm.hammer.btinternet.co.uk/sofs1.jpg
http://www.storm.hammer.btinternet.co.uk/sofs2.jpg
http://www.storm.hammer.btinternet.co.uk/sofs3.jpg
http://www.storm.hammer.btinternet.co.uk/sofs4.jpg

I imagine the same sort of thing would be possible in JK2, and would certainly be appreciated if included. ;)

CaptainRAVE
09-20-2001, 07:08 PM
That means it will be used in JK2 then. All the systems from SOF2 are being used in JK2. I see JK2 as a conversion of SOF2. Face animation would be another interesting touch, but would also increase specs.

Rancor
09-20-2001, 08:35 PM
So, what you are saying is that Raven/LEC has confirmed that JK2 will be using the exact systems that the SoF2 has?

CaptainRAVE
09-20-2001, 09:03 PM
Nearly all the systems if not all.

Rancor
09-20-2001, 10:23 PM
Bah, until I hear something official ( from Raven/LEC ), I'll not fall into the trap of assuming way too much.

BluRR
09-20-2001, 10:36 PM
Would you mind telling us where you read this Rave?

Jolts
09-21-2001, 02:49 AM
You guys crack me up. I would place a huge bet that Raven will have facial animations in JK:O. Its not a hard thing to do, a modeler could have all the blendshapes done in one day for kyle. Then from there its up to the animators to use them.

The ingame characters might not have them, I doubt that tho' since they will have in game cutscenes which I would assume would use the same models. They might be setup differently to address deformation problems or for certain types of actions. I don't think cutscene models would have 4,000 polys and the player models only have 3,000 for example.

Rancor
09-21-2001, 02:42 PM
I never made any suggestion that Raven wouldn't be doing it. It is clear that if they intend to do some sort of in-game cinematics that that would require facial animation.

But, it certainly is a bold claim to say that JK2 and SoF2 are sharing all of the same systems. I have yet to see any news release validating such a claim. That is, more or less, what I'm pointing out.

StormHammer
09-21-2001, 05:04 PM
Rancor is correct.

Although SOF2 and JK2 are using the same Raven tech, and there is likely to be some crossover of features, it has not been officially announced that both games will incorporate all of the same features. I would imagine it will be totally dependent on the needs of the game, and the gameplay.

After all, JK2 has sabers (and therefore saber effects, different kinds of saber-fighting animation) whereas SOF2 is going to be more grisly with lots of flying body parts (which is unlikely to feature in JK2).

Which is why I said it was possible to have facial animation, although it may not necessarily be implemented. Personally, I can see no reason why it would be omitted - especially since there will be more interaction with NPCs.

Sounds Risky
09-22-2001, 06:11 AM
In the November issue of PC Gamer they talk about you being able to zoom in on characters (using binoculars I suppose) and watch them talk. So yes, characters will have moving mouths.

Jolts
09-22-2001, 07:15 AM
I'm 100% positive they will have blendshapes on all characters, and they will be more than just moving mouths

Rancor
09-22-2001, 07:28 PM
Excellent, as soon as you can post relevant links to credible reports that show that we can be "100% positive they will have blendshapes on all characters, and they will be more than just moving mouths"...then I'll let the matter drop.

In regards to whether or not it will be hard for them do facial animation, I agree that it is theoretically not hard to imagine how it could be done.

The point that I'm really trying to get at though is that people read something like "it snowed a lot" and assume that that means "Oh, there was an avalanche in the mountains of Switzerland". Maybe there is a valid connection there. Maybe there isn't.

You have to admit that many of the things we read are in all truth, vague little snippets. Extrapolating these nuggets of purported truth can very easily lead us into false assumptions.

As I've said before. I in no way doubt that there will be some form of facial animation. Until I've heard what is planned, I don't intend to assume that we will get Final Fantasy quality ( or whatever it is that you are assuming ) facial anims.

Tap[RR]
09-22-2001, 07:41 PM
FF didnt have ingame facial animations. It was pure cg, and i think what you mean by "quality facial animations" is the metal gear solid 2, in-game facial animations.

Rancor
09-23-2001, 10:09 PM
I meant the movie when I was referring to Final Fantasy. I was also not referring to facial animation techniques or applications thereof, whether it is applied realtime in-game or pre-rendered...I was merely referring to the quality.

In any case, the statement was not to be taken literally.