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View Full Version : Do 56kers have life in jk2 MP???


Agen
10-23-2001, 03:58 PM
Ok take this from a point as if u don't have a computer and gonna get jk2 and have a sort of neutral answer.......... Well in Jk i used to have a 56k and i played guns and i was quite good and used the lag to my advantage if there was any ;) , but how will jk2 handle lag will it give u lag-0-vsion or just pretend like jk did and make the game run smoothly and still keep u happy but if jk2 gives u glitchiness there's a chance u just quit multiplayer because what's the point of playing MP if ur not gonna have fun. But if u take it form a cabler or an adsl then this is better choose .....

StormHammer
10-23-2001, 06:08 PM
Well, I hope it's playable on a 56k connection, because I can't get cable or ADSL where I live at the moment. My only alternative would be ISDN, but I'm not paying a premium for that.

While we're on the subject, I've had problems with online gaming in the past...like escalating ping, and really choppy framerates. I've got an internal 56k modem in an ISA slot (don't ask my why). I've heard that an external modem might take some load off the CPU. However, I've also heard that USB modems can create other problems. Does anyone think it might be worthwhile to go for a standard serial external modem?

ReAcToR
10-23-2001, 06:14 PM
Agen_Terminator:

To imagine what it will be like to play JK2 on a 56K, imagine playing JK and think of the opposite. In JK, you could ping in at 700 and still move around gracefully, but if you have anything over 350 ping in JK2, you will most likely freeze every once in awhile. JK dealt with this in bursts. If you lagged for a few seconds, you would sometimes be frozen in place to your opponent and would spin around in circles, then you would take off, shooting/swinging your weapon at a higher rate of fire and would run all over the place. In games with dedicated servers, if you freeze for a couple of seconds, you aren't going to be able to move around and someone can take you out easily, because of it. I know this isn't exactly the best way of explaining things, but I have class in a second and don't have alot of time to go into detail.

Agen
10-23-2001, 09:22 PM
I know about everything u've said but it's the decision raven are gonna make but i ping is about 125-250 in 2p games but 300+ in about 4 which is a problem because as u say it will freeze. and that's bad because i have a faulty modem even thoguh it worx fine the compiter automatticly crashes, puts game off or restarts. What i think they should do is get u 2 select what type of connection u have and if u have a 56k u don't freeze u get the sort of stuff that ahppened in JK if u have cable u get Q3,UT sort of happenings
Does that sound right or unfair???????????

Jedi Howell
10-23-2001, 09:37 PM
true, it would be nice...but i don't think that's possible w/o recoding a good bit more of the engine. I think that JKII will be playable on a 56k w/ up to 4 or 5 players. Not too much lag-type stuff, but not incredible either.

myself, i used to deal w/ a 28.8k. sad, sad university connection. but now im livin the life w/ cable.
:)

jh

ed_silvergun
10-23-2001, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by StormHammer:
<STRONG>While we're on the subject, I've had problems with online gaming in the past...like escalating ping, and really choppy framerates. I've got an internal 56k modem in an ISA slot (don't ask my why). I've heard that an external modem might take some load off the CPU. However, I've also heard that USB modems can create other problems. Does anyone think it might be worthwhile to go for a standard serial external modem?</STRONG>

Righto. It's not the case (as some like to make out) that external modems are faster than internal ones. The rule is that hardware modems (ie. ones which don't use CPU power to run) are faster than software modems (which do consume a certain CPU overhead).

All external modems are hardware modems, as it is impossible to use CPU power down a serial or USB connection, fairly obviously. Therefore, if you buy an external modem, you can be sure it is hardware. Now there is nothing to stop an internal modem being hardware as well... but an older part, especially one sitting in an ISA slot, may well be a soft modem, which would certainly explain your poor pings.

The problem is, when you buy an internal modem on the high street, you won't find any labelling on the box to identify it as either a soft or hardware modem. The trick in telling the difference is to look at the system requirements. If it says it will happily run on a 486 (or a similar antique) then you can be sure you've got a hardware modem as there is no way that a 486 could run a softmodem because the processing overhead would simply be too great.

I've not heard of any problems with USB modems myself, and have indeed read good reviews of many USB modems from well-known brands like Hayes or Olitec. That really is the golden rule when buying: read some reviews of your intended purchase from respected online or printed sources. They'll soon tell you if there are problems with the USB connection or anything else.

As to whether a serial modem would improve things for you... if your current modem is a hardware part, you're probably okay, your only problem is likely to be that poor data transfer rates over the ISA bus will act as a bottleneck. Having said that, data transfer rates will not be that great over a serial connection, either. In my opinion, your best bet would be a newer USB part, just make sure you read some reviews first, and buy a well-known brand.

Hope that helps.

StormHammer
10-23-2001, 11:20 PM
Thanks, ed. Much appreciated. ;)

WD_ToRMeNt
10-24-2001, 01:38 AM
Bah I can't believe you haven't used the word "winmodem." A winmodem uses software (read: eats up some of ur cpu). A "real modem" uses hardware for those functions. Real modems are much less sensitive to line noise and are generaly better over all. They cost twice as much though.

It can be hard to figure out what is a winmodem and what is a real hardware modem. Winmodems have a bad rep (deservingly) and may companies don't like putting "winmodem" on the package. I used to work at best buy I know what I'm talking about. The best way to tell if a modem is a hardware modem or not is to check and see if it required windoze. If it can run in DOS and/or Linux it's prolly a hardware modem. I think 3com sells a hardware model for around 70 bucks online. BTW any off the shelf computer these days has a winmodem in it.

I'm sure JK2 will be playable on a 56gay, but don't complain when you get blasted by some one with cable/dsl (ping of 50 ur so). The number of servers that you have a playable ping will be much less then some one with broadband.

Your connection depends on the wiring in your house, your computer hardware, your ISP, where you live, and how far you are from your ISP's nearest gateway. With so many variables it's hard to tell how one will do, but I'd say the average 56gayer can play reasonaly well on at least a few serveres.

StormHammer
10-24-2001, 01:57 AM
Thanks ToRMeNt. I don't expect miracles with my connection, but every little helps.

I've heard about Winmodems, and Hard/Software modems, I just wasn't sure if anyone had noticed getting a better connection by swapping.

If I knew for sure that broadband was coming to my area, I'd hold on a bit longer - but I'm determined to be able to at least take part online when JK2 arrives. If I get fragged a lot...well, that's life. It's the taking part that counts. I just don't want to wreck anyone else's enjoyment with my laggy connection. ;)

OnlyOneCanoli
10-24-2001, 02:06 AM
I've heard that Q3 is brutal on 56kers. I haven't played any multiplay on any Q3 engine game, so I really can't testify.

I am fairly certain that hardware or not, a dial up modem is going to be hell in JKII. It's just a really unfortunate fact that 56k modems are being phased out slowly but surely. RTCW is next to impossible on my 56k modem.

Luckily I am getting cable later this week, or so they say (Adelphia is like the worst company on the planet). But up until now, I was very worried by the possibility of JKII being unplayable on a 56k modem.

access_flux
10-24-2001, 02:25 AM
i certainly hope i can play JKO on my 56k connection, otherwise i'll be cut :( :mad: :(

WD_ToRMeNt
10-24-2001, 02:26 AM
NP bros. A couple more things though...

If you live in a rural area and/or you live in an older house a real modem would prolly be noticably better. It's less sensitive to line noise and other distortions. With this in mind I'd guess that you'd freeze a bit less. I forgot to mention that.

Having a hardware modem would prolly drop the ping at least a little because it wouldn't have to use ur CPU. Obviously if you're playing a 3d game your cpu will be trying to kick out as many frames as possible and still handel the modem. For this reason a hardware modem could MAYBE increase your framerate. I dunno, I'd guess 1 or 2 FPS. It depends on what is the bottleneck graphicaly, the CPU or your vid card.

One more advantage to real modems is that linux supports them all :). Linux does support some software modems but I'm not to familiar with that.

[ October 23, 2001: Message edited by: -WD- ToRMeNt ]

Silent_Thunder
10-24-2001, 02:39 AM
I'd certianly hope I could play JO on my 56k, considering I can play Tribes 2 with over 50 people with little to no lag, and I really doubt I would ever play JO with that many people, and even if I do the only think I could thing of that would cause lag for me would be low system specs, and now that I recently upgraded to a 1.4 GHz Athlon with 512mb of RAM and a Geforce 3, I doubt I'll have any problem with that :).

[ October 23, 2001: Message edited by: Silent_Thunder ]

StephenG
10-24-2001, 02:48 AM
you can always use bots...but it's not the same is it?

Agen
10-24-2001, 05:24 PM
I have a hardware modem and it's external and i guess i don't get that bad a ping (200 least 2 400--- medium 300 in unreal tourney and and same in jk) sad thing is i sued to have cable but i got it cut because illegally stealing tv :( I haven't played Q3 so i'm not sure how it deals with 56kers or as i would call it myself 56gayers but if it's anything the way UT handles it it'll be diabolic for 56kers........ if u go over 350 u always stop till ur modem gets back so that utter crap because u stay still and it doesn't takem uch to kill a standing player, does it? And torment did u work at best the modem making company or best buy, something else cause i've got an external best modem and tips would be greatful :D and igotta new comp 1.2 gihz and it churns out my graphics willingly from the most computer eating,demolishing games ever so graphics are out of the way and torment u mention sutff about old houses... i live in a victorian house that been refurbished (damn they done it good) do i have this advantage because most games i don't get terrible lag except in UT......
And as for Stephen, I don't think bots will settle the mind of any gamers.... anyway bye for now

-------
Term-

StephenG
10-24-2001, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by Agen_Terminator:
<STRONG>And as for Stephen, I don't think bots will settle the mind of any gamers.... anyway bye for now
-------
Term-</STRONG>

i know it wont, thats why i said:

Originally posted by StephenG:
<STRONG>...but it's not the same is it?</STRONG>

i was just suggesting that if it's too laggy theres always the bots

[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: StephenG ]

WD_ToRMeNt
10-24-2001, 08:36 PM
I worked in the computer dept of best buy.

JK2 will have similair netcode to UT, that is client-server. This type of game was made with LANs and broadband in mind, the better connection you have the better you'll do. You only have a connection with the server, and hits are scored on the server.

JK is peer to peer, meaning you have a connection with every other player. It tolerates poor connections better, but it has major disadvantages. Low bandwith connections with irregularities (packet loss, bursts, blah blah blah) tend to have an advantage because hits must be scored on the player's (the one being hit) computer.

As cable/dsl becomes more common, more and more games are using the UT/Q3ish client-server type. I hated JK's netcode, to me it was a prime example of what was wrong with P2P.

Agen
10-24-2001, 09:36 PM
uh huh i know i just wanted 2 use up the space and as for the server thingytorment was blabbering about i'm desperatly trying to get boradband again (liek i said i got cut off) and if i get i can get u can guess :)

[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: Agen_Terminator ]