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Darth Kiil
10-23-2001, 06:25 PM
Ok, I know this is probably a stupid question, but, in the fourth screenshot on the screenshot page, is Kyle decapitating that guy or is it just me?

SlowbieOne
10-23-2001, 08:38 PM
It's just you. :)

StormHammer
10-23-2001, 10:15 PM
*watches Darth Kill's head roll onto floor and out the door* :eek:

Would you like a band-aid for that? j/k ;)

On a more serious note, it's hard to judge, although possible. The reflection on the floor seems to suggest a head-lopping in progress, and decapitation is nothing new to the SW universe (ESB).

I wouldn't rule it out in that screenshot - but I also wouldn't expect the finished game to have decapitation if they are aiming for a certain rating.

Darth Kiil
10-24-2001, 01:08 AM
Well, they are going to be having dismemberments, minus the blood, so I guess it's a possibility.

access_flux
10-24-2001, 01:18 AM
i reckon they should have like a violence mode, like in DN3D, where you could activate stuff like Decapitations, not that i am into the violence thing, its just i remember in JK when on the very odd occaision, you could lop and arm off, which looked pretty cool, and there wasn't any blood there.

Darth Kiil
10-24-2001, 12:10 PM
Well, in the PC Gamer article they DO say there WILL be dismemberments. However, they also say that there will be no blood in order to get a more acceptable rating on the game. I'm not especially worried about the blood part, but, I do revel in the idea of lopping a Jedi's lightsaber arm off. I suspect that this will only be for single player mode, though, or that it will result in an automatic kill, because I don't see much sense in having a lightsaber multi game and having one guy run around without his lightsaber (and arm) until he gets killed.

CaptainRAVE
10-24-2001, 04:07 PM
I dont think it will be included in the game, not visually anyway. But with the Ghoul 2 system if you shoot them in the head they will die instantly. I wish Raven would give us an option for Gore or no Gore. That way young children playing the game could have no gore which could be turned off by the parents, and we could have lots of Gore.....like the gore levels in games like Unreal Tournament and the Half Life Trilogy.

With regard to the rating, I think it will be quite high anyway....15+, so gore wouldnt effect that rating anyway. And hey, if you can cut arms off, then i think you should be able to cut other body parts off :)

acdcfanbill
10-24-2001, 07:11 PM
well, using a saber to cut off an arm or a head wouldnt produce bool anyways... it cauterizes the wound. i think the only reason that there was blood in ANH was because that creatures arm was hollow, not filled with muscle, bone, and fat as most other creatures are... i dont know if this was the desired effect, or if george just made a hollow arm, hoping people woulnd notice and just assumed it was a normal arm...

StormHammer
10-24-2001, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by CaptainRAVE:
I wish Raven would give us an option for Gore or no Gore. That way young children playing the game could have no gore which could be turned off by the parents, and we could have lots of Gore.....like the gore levels in games like Unreal Tournament and the Half Life Trilogy.

I'd like to see that child-lock option too, like they had in SOF. Although I think the only time I'd want to see gobbets of flesh and blood spraying everywhere in JK2 is if you use a TD or other explosive device.

When it comes to saber cutting, I think the blood mist is fine, and you should be able to lop off hands, arms, legs, a nice mid-section slice (Maul/Maw style - funny coincidence ;) ), and probably the head.

With regard to the rating, I think it will be quite high anyway....15+, so gore wouldnt effect that rating anyway.

I hope you're right about the rating. :cool:

michael
10-28-2001, 09:08 AM
All 1st person shooters are 15 plus, so we will get limb chopping but no blood :)

GonkH8er
10-28-2001, 09:53 AM
There's a slight amount of blood.....

And they were still tossing up whether or not to include the limb removal. Head though..... im not sure about. My best guess is we won't be able to chop off heads though. I think it will be a head-friendly game.

CaptainRAVE
10-28-2001, 02:28 PM
Lets hope the arm doesnt come off randomly though. Sometimes on JK you would hit their legs, and their arm would fly off. If only their arm comes off, it seems kinda pointless in having anything coming off. Either all or nothing in my opinion. I just wish theyd give us an option for gore or not.

techsurfer
10-31-2001, 04:52 PM
Gore would be great as an option. Think of all the different colours of blood aliens have. I'd also like the models to have skeletons and some organs, similar to in Half Life but better, so bodies will consist of skeletons if a powerful weapon like a rocket launcher was used. But gore would only occur with impact weapons like rockets. Energy weapons would cause a wound and seal it at the same time. But decapitations and dismemberments would be great, you could collect storm trooper heads.

StormHammer
10-31-2001, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Darth Tech-Surfer:
...you could collect storm trooper heads.

Are you related to an Ewok by any chance? :D j/k

Kurgan
10-31-2001, 07:17 PM
Decapitation is very StarWarsy.. I hope they include it somewhere!

Btw, they could still include blood and retain a "Teen" rating. Lots of games have done that in the past (been rated "T" but still contained bloodshed).

I'd much rather see some more hackability with the limbs before I'd like to see blood flying (or mist). Like cutting in half, cutting off arms, legs, and head (in both single and multiplayer). Turn it off as an option, and have severed limbs disapear over time to prevent lag choking.

My point is that it could be included and wouldn't detract from the rating, or make it less Star-Wars like.

Kurgan

[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

Kurgan
10-31-2001, 07:21 PM
well, using a saber to cut off an arm or a head wouldnt produce bool anyways... it cauterizes the wound. i think the only reason that there was blood in ANH was because that creatures arm was hollow, not filled with muscle, bone, and fat as most other creatures are... i dont know if this was the desired effect, or if george just made a hollow arm, hoping people woulnd notice and just assumed it was a normal arm...

Lol.. nice try. ; )
If he had no fat, muscle, or bone in his "arm" then how could he ever hope to do anything with it? It would be impossible for him to draw a blaster with it. That and Maul's "red mist" seem to indicate that saber cuts could produce blood. And if not, I'm sure explosives and other cutting devices surely would.

Kurgan

[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

Lord_FinnSon
11-04-2001, 10:40 PM
Cutting of limbs is fine by me if done right. Blood? I think that "red mist" might be the only decent way to introduce blood in a SW game and after that dismembered limbs should come off with cauterized wounds(no pools of blood, al thought it might be more realistic). Guts and sticking out bones? Definitely not. We want a game that gives us a good idea what kind of damage a lightsaber can do, but we don't need to see added ultra-realistic "shock" effects; they would draw too much attention to themselves and make keeping JK2 purely adventurous action game much more difficult. I guess LucasArts is quite tight when it comes to these kind of situations in their games, so we shouldn't worry too much... :D

[ November 04, 2001: Message edited by: Lord_FinnSon ]

TrUeFoRcE
11-04-2001, 11:39 PM
the amount of blood doest really matter to me, just the ablility to slice people up is what im interested in :)

Lion Heart
11-05-2001, 02:16 AM
I never really noticed it in JK. (I seen it before.) because I never used the lightsaber because its pretty useless.

Kurt Plummer
11-05-2001, 06:15 AM
Quigon's tunic showed a dripped streak of blood as the sabre came back through and out.

Don't think for a minute that they didn't include Robots so that you could see the effects (some quite graphic in detail if slowed down) of these weapons without pulling an R rating.

The way Maul actually takes the cut and the pull-away flip as the body comes apart with an actual chopped scene as it tumbs goes to show that Lucas is so daddy-obsessive that we will likely /never/ see anything more than 'suggestive' of either blood or full body cut gore.

Which is both good and bad since even the Katana has some pretty much cleaver-nasty effects and while it's unlikely that you would /always/ dismember the body through the torse especially, the fold-and-flap (in the breeze) elements of drawing cuts would leave a LOT of liquid in only part cauterized wounds which would indeed spit and gush as the flesh tore further.

I have no idea how the Young Jedi are trained because fight globes are useless for offense and robots lack insight but it would be exceptionally foolish to go up against a child gifted with the Force but not discipline after handing him a 3.2foot unbreakable razor blade.


Kurt Plummer

StephenG
11-05-2001, 06:36 AM
they have to put in decapitating, even without the gore. i hope they include decapitating with droids too. i wanna slice up R2s, R5s but most of all GONKs!!!!!!!!!!!

Kurgan
11-05-2001, 05:26 PM
I figure they could just train with regular fencing weapons. The weight is neglable, and you have very little risk of injury (with proper protective garments).

Just an idea anyway....

Kurgan

Kurgan
11-05-2001, 05:27 PM
I never really noticed it in JK. (I seen it before.) because I never used the lightsaber because its pretty useless.

So you killed the Dark Jedi with guns and bombs? Interesting...

Kurgan

wardz
11-05-2001, 06:50 PM
Nah, he beat them at paper, scissors and stone. ; )


wardz

[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: wardz ]

acdcfanbill
11-06-2001, 12:04 AM
well, maybe the jedi trained with wooden (or the equivalent in the SW universe) sticks for sabers, much the same way the actors train... :D

Obi_Three
11-08-2001, 02:26 AM
In a "junior novel" based in Obi-Wan's younger days, the Jedi trainees fought with "training" lightsabers, set to so low a power that, if struck, the person on the recieving end of the blow would fell a sort of "Asleep" (pins-and-needles) feeling on the "wound".

Kurt Plummer
11-08-2001, 05:15 AM
Hey Ho,

Just saw the 'Breathing' AOTC-II clip.

WOW!

Finally, another _adult_ fairy tale out of the SW universe!

Amazing that the ESB/AOTC tensions and potentials are so dark, so intensely passionate-similar...

I can only hope that GL gives similar screen time 'patience' to allow the plot all the time it needs to properly develop (ESB was kinda ruined by the 'cutscene' to Bespin.

Traumatic Dismemberment and Light Blades.

I thought about 'play weapons' but dismissed them on a couple counts:

1. Foil/Epe, Shinai and equivalent weapons can still kill but they lack many of the stiffness, incendiary and instant-on risk factors of a sabre. The first two in particular score a LOT of kills simply by the 'sprung whip' effect of blade bypass or snapped strike inertia. Which sabres do not possess.

OTOH, Bokken are actually very heavy (and quite crushing lethal, even against a Katana) but have little grace to their movements.

Looking at the AOTC-II duel you see Anakin completely spraddle legged and 'stepping through' a lateral double cut attack and crossing-back blocked defense.

You would never learn this with any physical weapon because the leverage of the blade and positioning of the (weighted leg) would be instinctively just _wrong_ to maintain the speed of motion from such an open stance.

This is all the more critical if you are teaching them very young because they simply don't have the length of limb or the anaerobic endurance factors to sustain the active loading on their muscles.

2. Multiple attackers, Projectile/DE weapons. Many of the engagements you see are combinations of wheel to block (and place subsequent fire out of lane) and then cut to kill.

Though there were Katana arts dedicated to blocking arrows, they were not specifically designed to /return/ the shot and kill-stroke in the same fluid movement.

Again, this is a physical difference to both the environment and the weapon effect/kill methodology that makes all the difference.

Such becomes even more important where you have a partner whose fighting circle you must respect and the 'collateral' vulnerabilities of structural damage (vacuum beyond hull for instance) to your own actions are extensive and advantageable.

3. Frankly, if you duel 'safely' you are losing an edge of aggression. I know it's 'Anti Yodian' but fear is a tool of awareness-to-action motivation as much as a blinder of deeper insight.

Protective gear today is for regulated replication of 'strike zone outlines' not combat protection and where conventional armor's weight and sense of invulnerability might not be such a bad thing in massed-blade combat (where the good will learn to use their weight and axial hardness as a weapon in and of themselves); vs. a no-inertia (non-deflectable) blade that simply cannot be defeated with material layered defense, 'being safe' is simply a bad habit you can afford to pick up.

EVERYTHING must be concentrated on winning that 'one perfect moment' of balanced potential.

And that could only be done with live blades having all the properties of the true weapon.

I guess they must just have a lot of ER time on their Force-HMO plan, to go along with their olympic swimming pool sized bacta tank...;-)


Kurt Plummer

Kurgan
11-08-2001, 01:32 PM
You forget that when they've shot saber duels in the production of all the SW movies, the "sabers" they spar with have actual "blades" which at least in the early films were a modified tank antenna.

So their movements would have to be feasible to real life "foil-esque" weapons. Unless you want to theorize that the entire duel was created in CGI.

The only scenes where blade-less sabers are used is where a Jedi has it clipped to his belt or on a chair, or when they are in the process of pre-activation. But never fighting. They have to know when they are actually supposed to be striking, to mime the proper movements. ; )

Well maybe they use sparring blades not made of metal, but some other material that doesn't bend and "whip" so easily.

As far as the "safety" angle is concerned. Then how the heck does a person (or did they) ever learn to sword fight in real life? Did they have to kill all their instructors/students?? That would kind of make the lines pretty short for sword fighting lessons/instruction, don't you think? The only "true test" would be in battle against an enemy in a life or death situation, so there's no real way you could duplicate that, people just made do, which would also apply here. Who knows.. maybe they do it in VR...

Sidenote: Kurt, you really put us all to shame. Let me know when the book is finished, I might get it. ; )

Kurgan

[ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

Bartolo_JCS
11-11-2001, 06:18 AM
yes