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View Full Version : Orginal Music in DF3....


Red_XIIII
10-26-2001, 01:53 PM
This was somthing clearly lacking in Dark forces 2, it used stock music from the music, no orginal tunes that i remeber tho my cds havn't been able to play and redbook audio offem for a yr now, includin my mots one, there all scratched to death after several yrs of use... anyway DF1 had a good orginal Starwars music score, that and Tiefighter i always thought of as the best music outa any starwars games, and they were all composed outa MIDI, heh infact theysounded even cooler if u din't have a Wavetable synth card, tho they sound jus fine with wavetable too, esp the on the Soundblaster Awe and Live cards, nothin beats a 32mb GM soundfont, unless its a 128mb GM SF :D
<embed src="http://www.angelfire.com/sk2/Red/midi/welcome.mid" autostart="true" loop="999" hidden="true">

Silent_Thunder
10-26-2001, 03:16 PM
I thought Jedi Knight had some original music... Like in the 3rd, 4th and 5th levels I believe I remember some unique music there. I'm not sure about MotS though.

I personally hope they put alot of original tunes in JKII, with some original music as well.

SlowbieOne
10-26-2001, 03:40 PM
That ragged old DF music just doesn't hold a candle up against John Williams' original score for me.

The quality of the music really makes a game more immersive.

Silent_Thunder
10-26-2001, 03:45 PM
Actually SlowbieOne, Most of DF's tunes were John Williams.

CaptainRAVE
10-26-2001, 04:33 PM
I really liked the music in JK, mainly because it was the proper star wars music. I dont really mind if they use the original music from star wars, or make up their own, because as we saw from Elite Force, when they make their own music it rules. Actually, i hope they make their own music. That way it will be star wars type music, but will also suit the atmosphere of the level being played.

StephenG
10-26-2001, 06:25 PM
i loved the old midi music from Tie Fighter and Dark Forces. I would be very happy if they re-mixed the old midi music for jk2.

CaptainRAVE
10-26-2001, 06:49 PM
I cant remember the Dark Forces music, but i do remember the music from X-Wing Vs Tie Fighter and it was good. It would definatly need to be re-mixed though to suit the different environments and give atmosphere to the game.

Red_XIIII
10-26-2001, 06:51 PM
XvT music??? that was the most unorginal Starwars music in SW game, is riped direct from movie, heh XvT is what got me into MP games.... anyway thiers some DF music (intro) playin in background :D, ya mean Xwing Alliance?

[ October 26, 2001: Message edited by: Red_XIIII ]

CaptainRAVE
10-26-2001, 07:02 PM
Ah yea, i remember now. Not bad music, a bit too arcady though. I never found it set the atmosphere up very well either. I want the music to be more like the Elite Force music. That was amazing.

Lord_FinnSon
10-26-2001, 08:14 PM
Actually, both JK and MotS used mixed tracks from the movies and even though John Williams composed them originally, they got a little bit too repetitive after hearing them too often(I wish they would use good old iMuse sound system instead). That is one of the original reasons why there is a petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/JK2sound/petition.html) that tries to encourage LucasArts/Raven to create a new soundtrack especially for JK2. ;)

Red_XIIII
10-26-2001, 08:16 PM
yah imuse, Tiefighter, Xwing, DF, and Xwa, and outlaws were the only games that supported it from Lucasarts, right?

SlowbieOne
10-26-2001, 09:43 PM
I was referring to the quality of the music.

Midi sounds so cheesy.

jipe
10-26-2001, 09:50 PM
the music in jk was fine - it perfectly suited the atmosphere. keep it the same.. "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

Red_XIIII
10-26-2001, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by SlowbieOne:
<STRONG>I was referring to the quality of the music.

Midi sounds so cheesy.</STRONG>
lol right, u must be usin a crap sound card then, and if ure usin a live, ya nvr messed with the soundfonts and its prob stuck on a crapy 2mb gm SF, course they sound crappy if u dont got a good card with a large wavetable font.
I currently use a 128mb gm soundfont
if u got a live or awe I'd reccomend tryin a larger soundfont from here http://thesoundsite.ismi.net/
a good quailty soundfont sounds jus as good as anything u can squeeze into a 44khz 16bit wave file. course midi synth lacks anyvoices, but its small file size easily makes up for that. dont call midi crap cause it jus ain't.

StormHammer
10-27-2001, 12:45 AM
MIDI is okay, I suppose. But with MP3 and other audio compression standards there's no longer any reason not to have a properly recorded soundtrack. Also, for those with older or less standard sound cards, they should at least be able to play MP3 with the appropriate decompressor built into the game, rather than relying simply on the hardware.

To be honest, I wish they would hire a proper orchestra and choir (like Appeal did when they made Outcast), and thrash out a new soundtrack. (I thought the original Outcast's soundtrack was awesome.) I think it would be cool if you could have that deep male voice choir effect when encountering the Dark Side, for example.

John Williams did something new for TPM (Duel of the Fates being the most memorable for me), and I think Kyle Katarn and the other characters from DF/JK really deserve their own signature tunes that can be used as a refrain and theme throughout the score.

And, of course, it would be good to have the music react and change according to what is happening in the game - like a faster tempo for action, slower for exploration etc., and a smooth transition between as you encounter the next batch of enemies.

I liked both DF's and JK's music...but I do find it a little tiring listening to the same pieces of music all of the time. Those games (and that music) have been out for a while, and I'd like a bit of a change, while remaining faithful to the Star Wars ambience.

Krayt Tion
10-27-2001, 04:40 AM
I loved the DF music, it is in fact one of the few game soundtracks that still echoes in my head. This was largely because the MIDI music sounded so distant from the real SW music it ripped from- so much in fact that it seemed almost alien to me. If the MIDI music had been of the same quality/format in DF as it was in the JK, I would have been tired of hearing it again.

Now, we definitely need to move on; I think it is time to advance the originality of the game score by filtering out more of the original SW themes. I think connectivity to the original music is important, but I'm all for leaving in juuust enough of the original SW tunes for us to detect some genuine SW flavor.

For the vast majority of the rest of JK2 then, you can't go wrong with powerful, passionate, suspenseful, catchy music (plus all of that other good stuff :) ).

I also agree with StormHammer, JK2 really needs something we could tentatively call "Kyle's Theme" echoing throughout the game. Long overdue.

The stronger the original music for JK2 is, the less it needs to be bailed out by the established SW themes, imo.

SlowbieOne
10-27-2001, 06:04 AM
Arrrgggghhhh! That song is driving me insane!

Die MIDI Die!

:D ;)

GonkH8er
10-27-2001, 07:00 AM
ARGH WHO DID THAT!!!!!

Denise
10-28-2001, 03:43 AM
I think you could filter the following:

autostart="true"

And keep people from doing that... if you wanted to. Such antics can get to be pretty obnoxious. :)

(Particularly when set to loop 999 times... **glares at Red** :D)

Krayt Tion
10-28-2001, 03:02 PM
-Off Topic-

Well, we have plenty of options at this point.

The html might be turned off entirely after the game goes gold and we get a larger percentage of forum users messing around with it. For now, we are such small, tight-knit community that any problems that arise from it are easy to address individually. I count 2, maybe 3 people that actively mess around with the html :D

That being said, I think embedded music files can be fun and appropriate- but not always when they loop over and over. For now, you guys can reach over to that little speaker power button and give it a flick, or turn your volume down. However, if it seriously annoys enough of you guys, I will take out the looping or remove the hidden MIDI tag from Red's post altogether. Lemme know.

CaptainRAVE
10-28-2001, 04:14 PM
Yea, i also think its alrite. Like you said, its appropriate and suits the theme of the post. It isnt annoying to me.

Denise
10-28-2001, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by Krayt Tion:
<STRONG>That being said, I think embedded music files can be fun and appropriate- but not always when they loop over and over.</STRONG>

Oh, I agree. I'm just thinking about what'd happen if it were, say, a loud and offensive .wav instead of a MIDI (thinking more about forum trolls than the regular crowd, obviously :)). There are some very constructive uses for HTML on forums, and I'd hate to see the privilege go away entirely, but... :)

ed_silvergun
10-28-2001, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by StormHammer:
<STRONG>I think Kyle Katarn and the other characters from DF/JK really deserve their own signature tunes that can be used as a refrain and theme throughout the score.</STRONG>

How Wagnerian... :D

<STRONG>And, of course, it would be good to have the music react and change according to what is happening in the game - like a faster tempo for action, slower for exploration etc., and a smooth transition between as you encounter the next batch of enemies.</STRONG>

I think the new version of Direct Music (ie. DirectX 8) makes some provisions for this kind of immersive soundtrack.

[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: ed_silvergun ]

chileefresh
10-29-2001, 01:46 AM
If anyone has played Half-Life you will recognize the incredible score from that game. The music would start at certain points in a level, like when Freeman was about to be ambushed, or whenever he came face to face with a boss or found a new weapon.
And the music was downright spooky at times, and sort of enhanced the events and atmosphere of whatever was going on around you to a point where you were really immersed ,unlike a lot of games.
The Jedi Knight SndTrck got very repetetive and boring when there wasn't any action.
MotS did a slightly better job. The part where you fight kyle katarn in the end had some pretty good music, but overall it was like JK.
An original score is a must.

[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: DeaD/SwiTcH ]

michael
10-29-2001, 05:59 AM
midi is great midi is great midi is great midi is great midi is great midi is great

yeah

Darth Lunatic
10-29-2001, 10:32 AM
But with MP3 and other audio compression standards there's no longer any reason not to have a properly recorded soundtrack

Yes! Yes, to StormHammer you listen!

Xwing Alliance had some kind of musical system that mixed different themes and melodies from all the best Star Wars songs. But the quality was probably as good as mp3. This classic Dark Forces theme we're listening to should be integrated into at least one of the tracks in JKO, using similar technology.

Playing tracks off a cd is a bit dated by now. Plus with a music system similar to Xwing alliance the tempo picks up when enemies are near, and drops down when your alone and safe.

If anyone has played Half-Life

If you havent played half-life you cannot call yourself a computer game player. In fact anyone who hasn't played half-life should get the hell off these forums. YOU DISGUST ME!!! :)

StormHammer
10-29-2001, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by ed_silvergun:
I think the new version of Direct Music (ie. DirectX 8) makes some provisions for this kind of immersive soundtrack.

Yes, ed, I think I read that somewhere too. But my point was whether or not they will actually implement it. ;)

Wagnerian? LOL :)

chileefresh
10-29-2001, 02:05 PM
If you havent played half-life you cannot call yourself a computer game player. In fact anyone who
hasn't played half-life should get the hell off these forums. YOU DISGUST ME!!!
Exactly my point. :D

Red_XIIII
10-29-2001, 05:16 PM
Uh jus ta let u know, MP3 is a lossy compression FOrmat, XWA uses Wav files @22kz 16bit stereo, quailty wise prob better then a 128kps mp3 file. also for example a CD is 44khz @16bit stereo uncompressed, turn one track of a cd into a MP3 @ any compression rate, u introduce artficats into the sound.
why i would like DF3 to support other formats other then what Q3 alrdy has is a MP3 takes up alot of space about 12mb for a 192kps 44khz @ 9min, thats better then wav thats for sure but its huge compared to midi, or a digitl format like IT, XM, MOD.
Midi can hold 25min in under 200k, XM 1meg and maintain good quality. digitl prob have the advtange, cause they do sound the same under anysound card, tho at the cost of giving up a few cpu cycles, not many on a 1ghz proc its like 3%<hr>

[ October 29, 2001: Message edited by: Red_XIIII ]

Lord_FinnSon
10-30-2001, 09:24 PM
Original Dark Forces used iMuse, but LEC also integrated it into such games like Monkey Island series, Full Throttle, Grim Fandango, X-Wing Alliance and TPM. I think it worked admirably in each of them(especially in both X-Wing Alliance and TPM, which used cues from the movies) and it would be terrible waste of good sound system, if Raven/LucasArts didn't use it in JK2. I do however understand, if Raven ultimately chooses to use their own sound system, which they probably know better... Just be true to the musical (Wagnerian) style that John Williams created for the movies, when you compose your own music, and throw there some of the not-so-familiar cues from the Maestro himself to balance the final mix. :D

[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: Lord_FinnSon ]

Wilhuf
10-30-2001, 11:56 PM
Actually the score to Jedi Knight was probably the best PC game score ever produced. Only the score for Outlaws could compete, in my book.

I understand how some of the themes, if played over and over could get tiring. But then again, the Williams scoring grounded Jedi Knight firmly within the Star Wars galaxy, where it belonged.

Some of the tracks were radical remixings: take for example the music we hear at the Valley of the Jedi. Very radically remixed from the original source. Those sections were created by Peter McConnell and David Levison, music producers for (for better or for worse), Force Commander. I actually liked some of the work they did on FoCom, although I can understand why it wouldn't be for everyone.

I say Raven/LEC should stick with the method that made Jedi Knight great: use the traditional orchestral scorings, perhaps either throuh an iMuse-like system (btw SOF2 may indeed feature a dynamic music system that responds to game events, similar to iMuse) or through extended mp3 tracks.

[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: Wilhuf ]

SlowbieOne
10-31-2001, 02:00 AM
Wilhuf, I couldn't agree more.

I must say when I heard the music in JK, I was quite moved. I was expecting carbon-copy tracks from Williams original score.

Whoever mixed the tracks really searched through all of the Trilogy's music create some beautiful renditions.

I wouldn't mind Kyle having his own theme, but not unless Williams produced it(highly unlikely). But seriously, no one else can copy Williams style, it just wouldn't be the same.

I don't know if they are using the event-based music system in JK2, but if not I would love to see the same people mix up some new tracks for JO.

Even if they use the normal tracks though, I wouldn't mind a bit, I will never get sick of Star Wars music till the day that I die.

Aww heck, who am I kidding I won't be sick of it that day either. :)

BTW for the record, Half- Life was an OK game, but I don't see what the big deal about it was. Story was normal and predictable(not to mention brief), game was too short, no charactewr interaction, enemies were boring. The list goes on.

Half Life the best game ever? No, sorry.

JK, No One Lives Forever, Undying, Giants, now these are great games with actual stories that you play through.

Half-Life to me had exactly what the title means, half of a life.

Not even the multiplayer aspect was intersting after games like Unreal Tournament.

I know this was a bit off topic but I just wanted to say that not everyone thinks highly of Half-Life, and for good reasons.

[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: SlowbieOne ]

chileefresh
10-31-2001, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by SlowbieOne:
<STRONG>
BTW for the record, Half- Life was an OK game, but I don't see what the big deal about it was. Story was normal and predictable(not to mention brief), game was too short, no charactewr interaction, enemies were boring. The list goes on.
</STRONG>

*Ahem*

Where should I begin. Half-Life was an OK game?
The story was very original, and not at all predictable. Unless of course you went to a site that had level walkthroughs, oh well maybe that explains it.
The game may have been shorter compared to others, but let's not forget that the story happened within 3-4 days. Games like JK span over months, even years thus the game is longer. But not by much.
No Character Interaction?! What are you talking about? Half-Life was probably the FIRST fps that had a *working* interactive system where you could get friends and allies to do things, like unlock doors and help ward off enemies, not to mention the dialogue that they had to offer. ie: When the cop is about to give you a message but is mysteriously shot in mid-sentence before he can say the rest.
The enemies were the best part, besides the weapons. From the headcrabs to the Nihilanth, the enemies were strange and complex, and often worked in packs in order to take you down.
And let's not forget the weapons. They were neat as hell and practical at the same time, which most games can't seem to distinguish.
The levels might have paled next to JK's, but Black Mesa is not a Jedi Burial ground nor is it set in a futuristic place. It's leftover from the cold war, so don't expect a lot of eye candy and architectural genius... Although Xen was the total opposite... it was Dark and depressing, with a very intricate and well thought out design.
So, if you think Half-Life is a dumb game, that's ok. Just ignorant. :p

*Note: This wasn't meant to be a flame, just a fountain of knowledge. :D

StephenG
10-31-2001, 10:44 PM
^
Half-life wasn't an "OK" game, it was one of the best. it introduced so much into FPS. The AI was THE BEST for it time. If half-life was an "ok" game then u dont know anything about games!

TherosB
11-01-2001, 02:12 PM
While I agree that DF series had some pretty good music, I wouldn't say it had the best music by a longshot. I would have to give that kudos to the diablo series. Diablo 2 and its expansion had the most creative and origional sound track I have heard for a pc game that I can think of. The instrumentation, the mood set, it was excellent!

General Theros