View Full Version : A JK2 feature that really WORRIES me...

11-19-2001, 07:02 AM
"3.01 What type of game is Jedi Outcast?
Jedi Outcast is an action-oriented first-person perspective game, similar in nature to the original Jedi Knight. Third-person perspective is used for lightsaber combat."

Does this mean that you won't be able to freely switch from 1st to 3rd POV with any weapon? I'm going to be very sad if it will be so. Saberfighting from 1st POV is the BIGGEST feature for me and I think that 3rd POV with any gun should be there for people who likes it, since now there's an aiming cross. Acrobatics from 1st POV shouldn't be a problem. The camera hadn't to "roll" like the body since our brain automatically "corrects" the vision (Have you ever watched TV from the bed? And when you turn riding a Motorcycle? :D ). Many MODs for JK1 works well in that manner (An example? See my own from the signature) and I think noone would complain. Please, insert this feature if is missing. If it is already there than tell us or, better, let we see a screen when you release others.

P.S.: I know this had been talked before but I hope to catch the developers' attention with a new topic. Excuse me for my bad english...

[ November 19, 2001: Message edited by: Nemios ]

Darth Lunatic
11-19-2001, 07:19 AM
Yeah thats the same way I interpreted that comment Neimos.

I'm pretty sure you will be able to use guns in 3rd person mode though.

11-19-2001, 09:05 AM
I agree, I'm also worried. I always like usuing the blater in 3rd POV and just having a 1st POV of saber fighting gives you the feel of saber combat. Lets hope that nothing has changed.

11-19-2001, 10:26 AM
I'm 99.9999999999% sure that we can use guns in 3rd person perspective......

Seryl Cann
11-19-2001, 12:03 PM
If it's not a standard option, you will surely be able to do it in console with a command.

11-19-2001, 02:13 PM
Agreed, the quake3 console is a powerful thing. If it's like other games, the developers will probably leave all sorts of feature switches hooked into it. Once we find out what those are, we can get access to additional things that may not necessarily be available by default in the game.

11-19-2001, 02:19 PM
I'll throw my two cents into this discussion as well. It's all about options. Game developers, listen up. As a fellow software developer, it is paramount to provide the user with ways to customize and configure a piece of software to their preferred method of operation. If a gamer wants to saber in 1st-person, then why shouldn't they be "allowed" to do so? Sure, default it the way you "think" it should be, but if someone disagrees, then let them play their way. We all have different tastes and preferences.

It's the economy, stupid.

I'd modify that to be:

It's the options, stupid.

Of course, I'm not calling anyone stupid, but that's the quote, so you get the idea. Just be liberal with the options, and you can't go wrong.

[ November 19, 2001: Message edited by: Vagabond ]

11-19-2001, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Vagabond:
Just be liberal with the options, and you can't go wrong.

I second that motion! :D

JK had some of the greatest choices in how to play the game of any FPS. Please continue that trend with JK2. ;)

11-19-2001, 04:40 PM
You probably can, it would be pretty stupid if you could only have 3rd peron view when your lightsaber was on :rolleyes:

MaJeSTiK the God
11-19-2001, 07:02 PM
If you guys carefully watched the trailers "under download section of jediknightII.net" You would have noticed that in the game the user made it so that he had pulled a saber out, than changed to a storm trooper rifle, changed to 1st person and fired. I noticed that the second time, after reading your comments about it. So don't be afraid it will be perfectly fine.

11-19-2001, 07:11 PM
Welcome to the forums, MaJeSTiK. Have a cookie. :D

Yeah, I take your point about the trailers...although keep in mind that was from a very early demo level made for E3.

Heh...that seems like ancient history, now. ;)

11-19-2001, 07:16 PM

I reckon you should have that welcome message in your sig. We will be sayign it enough.

(welcome BTW Majestik)


11-19-2001, 07:26 PM

You're right...and that's a good idea. ;)

(See below :D )

11-19-2001, 11:16 PM
Wow, this is the opposite of the other thread in a way. I'm hoping for the whole game to be 3rd person, with everything feeling like Heretic II. Although, Hexen II, which was first person, had sword fighting in 1st person and it was really cool too. Hopefully Jedi Knight II will be the best of both worlds: Heretic II meets Hexen II meet Star Wars :D

Toa Tahu
11-20-2001, 03:58 AM
I'm afraid that that is not so.You fight with any rifle in first person,and in third person ewith the sabre.Check the official Jedi Outcast site for yourself.

Too bad,they really should have the sabre fighting in First Person.

MaJeSTiK the God
11-20-2001, 04:16 AM
one thing to say...
i have never meet a nicer bunch of people on the net before. and i meet thousands and thousand of gamers, etc.
I been playin jk (1st one) since 97 i used to be a nf gunner legend on the zone. and everyone i meet is an ******* at first than nice at the end..
So thanks for the welcome, =)

11-20-2001, 06:42 AM
Seems that everyone cares much more guns on 3rd person POV... if it's true that the console lets you switch (but someone said that in EF you have to enter cheat mode, so what about in multiplayer? Still possible?), for guns virtually there's no problem but for the saber remains. In JK1 animations differs from external and POV (see into COGs, scripting language) and if for guns' external animations we are sure they exist (like someone said, in multiplayer we still see animations for the opponents), we are NOT sure internal animation exist for the saber...
Did you understand me? My english seems not so good to me :(

11-20-2001, 09:34 AM
Yes Nemios, we understood. To me, I don't see why they can't just use the same animations for both 1st and 3rd POV.

11-20-2001, 02:04 PM
I, for one, am very skillful at first-person sabering in MotS. It's the only way I've ever fought, and although I am capable of sabering in 3rd-person, I'd just as soon not. It's not my cup of tea, so to speak. My strong suggestion is that JKII support the same customization options that the original JK and MotS had. Remember, evolve the gameplay, not devolve - otherwise I'm going to have to whip it - whip it good!!! :cool:

11-20-2001, 02:32 PM
Actually, I noticed something a bit odd about sabering in 1st person in JK. It seems that I see more arms coming off my opponents when in 1st person than I do in 3rd person.

11-20-2001, 03:03 PM
just tried the fp POv and more arms do come off... strange...
Welcoem to the Forum Newcomers.. Enjoy the hype.

11-20-2001, 03:12 PM
I'm not going mad, then...well, maybe. :D

Of course, what I'd like to see is the ability to cut people's arms off in MP...and have it regenerate if you get some more health. I thought that was funny in RUNE. ;)

11-20-2001, 03:23 PM
I'll bet $50 that we can play it in any of the above listed ways. If we get proven wrong, I'll pay the first person that notifies me that I lost the bet, heh.

11-20-2001, 04:52 PM
You're right, my friend Stormy, I laughed my ass off the first time I saw my bloody stump grow back into a fully functional, although somewhat bloody, arm again.

The wonderful healing power of Turkey Legs and Mead...gotta love it :cool:

11-20-2001, 07:48 PM
simply because it switched to 1st pov when he got the gun, doesnt mean you cannot gun in 3rd... if you recall in JK, there was an option call 'lighsaber camera' or something, and what it did was it automatically switched to 3rd when you had you saber out, and then switched 1st again once you pulled out a gun... so it will probably be an option again...

11-20-2001, 07:51 PM
Yeah, I really do hope we'll get the same customizability we got in Jedi Knight.

And also about the 1st-person sabering in JK, I also noticed that more arms come off, and not only that, but I also seemed to be able to block more shots. Very strange.

11-20-2001, 07:58 PM
Hi people,
I think 1st person perspective should be the default, with 3rd person as an options.
The more options the better

11-20-2001, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by Santa Claus:
...and not only that, but I also seemed to be able to block more shots. Very strange.

Well, I think that is more readily explained. In 1st person you should be better at aiming, even without the crosshair - so I found myself automatically focusing on the opponent's gun, which meant I more accurately deflected their shots.

It's actually kind of fun just standing there with Force Speed turned on, deflecting the shots from an Imperial Repeater. :D

For those who haven't tried 1st person sabering, I recommend it. ;)

11-22-2001, 04:56 PM
Cool, do u stay awake all night tying to figure this stuff out?

11-22-2001, 09:59 PM
Terminator...LOL :D

No, I don't have to stay awake all night. These things just pop into my head. ;)

11-22-2001, 11:11 PM
I wish everyone would consider giving 3rd person a try :). Has anyone else ever played Heretic II? 1 on 1 blading was awesome and I'm hoping Jedi KNight II will be even more fun.

Hexen II had first person sword fighting, which was great, but not as great as Heretic II. Seems like everyone is looking forward to a Hexen II meets Star Wars, while I'm looking for Heretic II meets Star Wars. I saw a guy from Heretic II ask about it in the chat, but Raven didn't give any details. But are we the only ones wanting 3rd person features? :eek: :confused:

Darth Lunatic
11-23-2001, 04:45 AM
I'm with you dude. I'm never gonna use lightsaber in 1st person.

Heretic 2 staff fighting heaps of fun.

Its only a personal choice but i like seeing the character i'm playing, from a 3rd person view. You get to see them run, jump, flip, kick, spin the saber and a whole bunch of other cool animations.

11-23-2001, 05:11 AM
Originally posted by Agen_Terminator:
<STRONG>Cool, do u stay awake all night tying to figure this stuff out?</STRONG>

well, usually, these are discoveries that a intelligent mind picks up after using the method(in this case, using first-person with the lightsaber), and are rarely subjects of intense thought..

[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: DeathBoLT ]

11-23-2001, 06:16 PM
Omedarcus...just an FYI...

Heretic II is one of my favourite games, and they got the 3rd person just right. It is, in fact, my favourite 3rd person game (although RUNE is a very close second). I never got into the MP scene due to a naff net connection.

I've played JK and MotS several times, in 1st person, 3rd person, using blasters, or just the saber...or even boxing my opponents, which is fun until you die (often).

I don't think anyone here is saying they don't want to play in one perspective or another, but everyone has their preference. Now that Raven has confirmed it is possible to play in whichever perspective you like, my preference is both perspectives, and I will probably play JK2 from start to finish 3 times - 3rd person, 1st person and a mixture of the two. ;)

So for me, it already has replay value built in. :cool:

Rest assured, there are many people who like 3rd person. :)

11-25-2001, 07:29 PM
They just said recently you can play the entire game with either 1st OR 3rd person view. And since they also said Kyle does not have his lightsaber in the beginning of the game, that would imply that you can use 1st or 3rd person any time. I also don't see why they would restrict it...Just do like JK, lightsaber auto cam and 1st or 3rd person view.

11-25-2001, 07:45 PM
Actually JK2 will definately be customizable since it's using the Quake 3 engine and not Lucasart's engine

11-25-2001, 08:15 PM
The only things that really worry me are that they will simply be left with the Q3 default or the JK default.

I mean I think the stuff in JK is great, top notch, and maybe it isn't "broke" and doesn't need "fixing" (and that's up to the discretion of the dev team), but I'm a bit worried that stuff that could be improved is simply left as is (from either Q3 or JK).

But then again, I just have to hope that the team gives its all and does their best, and that the gods of marketing, budget, and deadlines are gentle.

Like for example, I hope they beef up the built in server browser, the Q3 one just annoyed me. UT's was much better. And how about bringing back loading status bars? And secondary fire is great, so long as it's more than just a zoom (so far they sound like they're making sure it isn't just a default zoom for every weapon).

I'm disapointed that coop play won't be included (although that would make a great mod/expansion option), but it isn't the end of the world. It could still be a great game. This just has the potential to be so much more than "Jedi Knight 1/2b: Improved Graphics and Dedicated Servers Edition."

Good luck to the team...