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View Full Version : Requesta-force: what do u want??


$10BOOMBOOM
10-29-2001, 08:14 PM
What makes film orientated games good? They recreate and try to give the most accurate perseption of a playable film as possible. So why dont they try and make a good film orientated force power gameplay system. In JK 1 u would target an enemy with your forces. Lightning, grip and throw all used this system for the dark side, but why generalise this so much? Why dont u have a telekenisis (is that spelt right?) force where you can guide objects into people al-la force throw style or force pull useful objects towards urself. Depending upon your force strength you can rip larger objects off walls like that big thing darth vader throws at luke on the gantry. Also, depending on your force skill of telekenisis you will be more perceptive on what you can move. for example, unskilled players can only move objects infront of your view, but the skilled will be shown arrows like the targetting mode in Xwing alliance where objects are all around you. Just imagine doing what darth maul did with the box fusing the door switch in the final battle of episode 1 b4 the lazer corridor :cool:
Of course it will be too hard to aim by your self so an auto aim ability can help u. So if u throw an object within a certain degree of a cone that object can be precieved as good enough to be auto aimed into the door switch/enemys face/enemys crotch. But i hear you ask how this will be done??? U must have played black and white, so u gotta admit the throwing ability in that was good. U can pick an object to throw and with the force u can manipulate that object and move it around using your mouse, by holding down right click. when u want ot throw just let go of right click and snd it on its way. This system will mean that you can carefully guide an object to a switch ( i sense a "cant quite reach the switch but lets use the force to hit it" puzzle coming on :D )
You ca also just do a flick of a rist in the right vague direction to send a high velocity big object at an enemy. One of my coolest thoeries of this Requesta-force is that you could catch a thermal detonator some1 is about to chuck at u and make it hover in mid air infront of the geeza who was throwing it at you. Imagine the power as u chuck it back at him ;) and detonate right back at him. So what force do u demand?? I know u want to.

Jedi Howell
10-29-2001, 10:32 PM
u think too much

TrUeFoRcE
10-30-2001, 12:14 AM
looks like u put alot of thought into this, but isnt this force power pretty much force throw from dark forces 2? there werent many pieces of debree in most maps but u could throw stuff from all around you at your target

TrUeFoRcE
10-30-2001, 12:23 AM
i just hope JO will have some cool abilities like star wars obi-wan, the models are a bit low poly but u can throw huge boxes etc.. from what ive seen so far, also able to maneuver like a real jedi doing flips cart wheels etc..., i think/hope that JO end up like that

$10BOOMBOOM
10-30-2001, 06:38 PM
just think about it, being able to pick objects up without an aim on an enemy for force throw. Just think about how cunning it could be!! U chuck a thermal detonator at me, I stop it mid flight, bring it back to u and float it infront of your face and drop it :p :cool: ;) How smug will you feel when a newbie comes on to a multiplayer server and starts using weapons on you and the force.
the thing about JK1 was that the force powers werent there to be mastered, than just used. It wasnt all that fun cos it was so simplified. However the lightsaber was the best weapon to use once u learnt how to properly use it and gives longitivity to the game. Post your most demanded force power, what u think should be the same as JK or annotated to something better.

StormHammer
10-30-2001, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by TrUeFoRcE:
.. from what ive seen so far, also able to maneuver like a real jedi doing flips cart wheels etc..., i think/hope that JO end up like that

Cartwheels? You can't be serious. :rolleyes:

That is one of the things I dislike in the Obi-Wan game footage. A forward/backward flip could potentially reduce your profile to make you harder to hit - and even include use of the saber from the air.

A forward/backward/side roll can get you beneath your enemy's defences, and allow you a sneaky upward cut with the saber.

A cartwheel just says to your enemy 'here I am, shoot me now while I'm defenceless'. :D

As I've said before, if they just use Heretic II as a model for different moves, but with more control and accuracy, that would be enough for me. :)

As far as new Force Powers go, I wouldn't mind seeing Levitate, as Kurgan and I discussed in another thread. It could be very practical, like breaking a fall, or allowing you to fly through a window too high for Force Jump. ;)

Kurgan
10-30-2001, 09:25 PM
I want variable rate Force Speed.. not "Force Slow" or "bullet time" but I want to be able to, as one famous person put it, "run around at uncontrollable speeds."

Frankly, all of the force powers I've wanted to see have shown up either in JK/MotS or in Obi-Wan already, or have been mentioned as occuring in JK2. It's just the ways in which they work is what I hope they work on, so they are useful, balanced, and cool (but don't require the user to fight with the interface).

But I'd love to see "force fly/float." ; )

Maybe to appease the purists, they could include a "movie powers" mutator, that only allows certain ones, while the regular mode allows all the dragon-ballz/matrix-esque powers?

I hope they throw in some force powers we haven't seen, or give us some more creative uses for them (whether or not it was seen in the movies shouldn't be a criteria for deciding if it should appear in the games, IMHO). ; )

Kurgan

[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

SlowbieOne
10-30-2001, 11:12 PM
For those of you who haven't played Saber X for JK, it is a mod that improves saber fighting and adds an Evasion button:

Forward+Evasion=Forward Flip
Left+Evasion=Roll Left
Right+Evasion=Roll Left
Back+Evasion=Backflip

I found it to be extremely user-friendly.

By setting this button to my middle mouse button, I can easily dodge almost anything in a split second.

The author did a great job of making the movements and animations both smooth and fast.

I really can't think of a better way to implement evasive manuevers. The double tapping of the directions in Unreal Tournament to dodge were less than reliable and it could be awkward at times.

Not to mention sometimes in the heat of battle you can accidentally double tap and fall to your doom.

The reason I like Saber X so much is because it almost eliminates regular JK's need to jump around like a fool in saber duels, which needless to say made it kinda cheesy.

Also in Saber X you can Force Jump as many times as you want in the air, well until you run out of mana anyway.

There are several advantages to this.

First you can save yourself from a giant fall by tapping Force Jump right as you are about to hit the ground.

You can also use it to get to places 10 times higher than normal Force Jump if you have full mana.

Don't get me wrong I love Force Jump, but after playing the Saber X way, it's just not as good to me.

I like the idea of Force Levitate as well, but if they cannot fit that into the game, this method could be an alternative.

Your thoughts?

acdcfanbill
10-31-2001, 04:17 AM
i also thought that saber battle x was extreemly well put together... its a favorite mod of mine in fact... :D

Nemios
10-31-2001, 05:40 AM
If you like Saber Battle X but want to use also other MODs with it and can't, or think that has too many features you don't want, try my MOD. I made it before knowing about SBX... funny isn't it?

See below...

$10BOOMBOOM
10-31-2001, 07:04 PM
I like Saber Battle X also. I am downloading Nemois's mod at the moment, so I will post back onm my view soon. Indeed, what people want is refinement of the force powers that are in JK and mots. I would like to see some sort of an interaction between how your character is animated during the use of force powers. I always liked how in the films if some1 was using force pull they would point at it with their palm out, ready to catch it. This has been done in Saber battle X, but it did look that well choreographed and abit clucky and numb. I have always wanted force telekenisis / levitate, which is different from pull cos u can manipulate the object u have targetted more freely, like just making it hover without the computer guiding it to u or the enemy. GOD! I just want Raven and Lucasarts to take note of our wants and do them, or make a game which has had alot of fan input.

Another refinement would be the saber fights. In the trilogy they were more like fencing with fancy sword play, but in episode 1 is had alot of acrobatics. Perhaps the player in multiplayer could pick their style, for what ever reason or the next.

Nemios
11-05-2001, 07:51 AM
Then? What do you think about it? :D

Rogue15
11-05-2001, 01:26 PM
i want force control, like being able to get in the enemy's mind (first person view from enemy's perspective) and perhaps, shoot his partner, or make him walk right past you, or off a cliff. That'd be cool.

StephenG
11-05-2001, 02:02 PM
^
Rogue, thats i cool idea! i would use the stormies to look for keys and stuff.

Rogue15
11-05-2001, 04:41 PM
i got the idea when luke willed those beasts to move to a corner and stay put in part 2 of the corellian trilogy. :D

$10BOOMBOOM
11-06-2001, 03:24 PM
yer that is a cool and cunning idea.

Bartolo_JCS
11-07-2001, 05:24 PM
The reason I like Saber X so much is because it almost eliminates regular JK's need to jump around like a fool in saber duels, which needless to say made it kinda cheesy.

Also in Saber X you can Force Jump as many times as you want in the air, well until you run out of mana anyway.

There are several advantages to this.

First you can save yourself from a giant fall by tapping Force Jump right as you are about to hit the ground.

You can also use it to get to places 10 times higher than normal Force Jump if you have full mana.

Don't get me wrong I love Force Jump, but after playing the Saber X way, it's just not as good to me.

I like the idea of Force Levitate as well, but if they cannot fit that into the game, this method could be an alternative.

kinda hyporcritical no?

SlowbieOne
11-07-2001, 08:57 PM
Can you explain yourself please? I can't figure out why you think that.

Exactly why am I a hipocrite?

:confused:

[ November 07, 2001: Message edited by: SlowbieOne ]

Bartolo_JCS
11-08-2001, 05:28 AM
You think jumping around with sabers is cheesy yet you like the levitating idea...

Kurt Plummer
11-08-2001, 10:34 AM
Anti Surprise Tool.

If you slow down Ep.1 Quigon looks /before/ you here or see the blaster/speederbike combo.

The biggest disadvantage at the moment with shields and so on is that you can never REALLY immerse yourself in the part of a Jedi because that first blaster bolt is always gonna kill and/or hurt you (especially at Saber-X lethality levels).

That said, while I support the drama of lift->point->vector->SHOVE! it makes some basic mistakes.

1 You can't do much else (and the movie Jedi don't either).

2. Why not simply 'press the button'? Less mass = less effort one would assume...

Constellations of minimissiles makes sense in a way because they give you /some/ projectile fire capabilities without standing their looking like an idiot while your sabre plays at being a boomerang.

But here too, I would much rather have double taps that /automatically/ divided targeting up between one or all animate targets because I frankly don't think there will be time to dork about with point and click mouse designation. This may change with object-to-object manipulations.

I kinda enjoyed the flipping and cartwheels between EP.1 duelists as they allowed them to skip out of some pretty nasty leg cuts or take the edge off a donkey kick to the face.

The problem with them as fight moves in a game is that the perspectives and object detail is limited in terms of saying: "cycle with the blade swing but don't get hit!" and vs. multiple opponents it simply doesn't have much reality matching.

As for speed, it has two uses, one to get away (or avoid) a 'standoff'. The other to /enable/ an attack. When Quigon was drilling the door, it was all well and good for Obi Wan to give a heads up on the destroyers, but IMO, he _should have_ done this as a function of a sudden lateral translation INTO their path so that when they came to a halt, it was to eat light blade BEFORE they could erect their shields.

Bad Tactics which should be 'fixed', in game.


KP


Who, on a related note, thought the Jedi let Amidala and the movie down when they 'got personal' with Darth Maul instead of using weight of fire to force him back beyond the door and then (at most) leaving one behind to screen against his pursuit.'

What idiot would open a door protecting him from attack by 20+ determined and blaster armed individuals?

(One who could change location in a blink of an eye translation and sweep a sudden-on blade across all those standing gawping at his makeup of course...).

I would have enjoyed seeing him try (with an unlit saber no less) to block ALL their blaster fire AND the Jedi blades, functioning as a team.

This would have also let us 'bypass the bypass' of the silly 'ascension guns' and perhaps given a more realistic (and dramatic) result of the Droideka ambush. Two Jedi, about six Destroyers and 10 robots. Blocking, pushing back, redirecting at each other all the sudden-onset fires...

Whhhooooo Babay!:-)

$10BOOMBOOM
11-08-2001, 01:32 PM
Kurt, I kinda get ur point, but I reckon that it had to get personal between maul and the jedi's. Just think about it, they didnt know that the Sith was still around and this fella with a bloody great big lightstaff comes in lookin like a reject from the rocky horror show ( Im not knocking maul, he looks real mean IMHO ) causin all sorts of trouble. IE bear in mind they reckoned the sith had died out many centuries ago.

I have worked out what is truly gonna make JK2: aesthetics.

It will all be resting on aesthetics for people looking for a game which has a movie element about it. This is basically all about how it is done; options that will allow you to customise your character such as his saber handle and style. This will cause a sort of divide between the usual cut n slash element of the star wars community. Some people will value themselves as "old scool" trilogy ppl and will opt for a style similar to Darth Vader ( controlled breaks in between the fast saber attacks ) whilst other ppl will like the episode 1 style of quick spins and lots of acrobatics.

Also the style of the force powers being delivered will be an issue. How will the people deliver these powers, what will their bodies move like?
People will always want to reinact their star wars fantasies. so tell us here what you want to be able to do. U never know, Raven could take notice :D

Syntax
11-08-2001, 01:37 PM
I want a force where you can throw an object at a door control panel to open it.

You know like Darth maul did in the Trio dual in PM that was cool! :cool:

SlowbieOne
11-08-2001, 02:02 PM
You think jumping around with sabers is cheesy yet you like the levitating idea...

Look up the word hipocrite in the dictionary, this is not what it means my friend.

Since when are jumping and levitating the same thing?

When you are jumping around, you are constantly moving up and down, up and down...

When you are levitating, you are moving in a fluent motion just as if you were moving on the ground.

You can't jump while you're levitaing, so I don't know where you get this hipocrite thing.

Maybe you should've thought a little harder before you called me a hipocrite...

BTW, if I'm sounding like a D$!*, don't take it that way. I come to these forums to express myself, hear others opinions, and maybe make some new friends. :)

But if you are gonna call me a hipocrite, please explain youself.

Bartolo_JCS
11-08-2001, 03:42 PM
lol dude you're saying jumping is cheesy and levitating is not(its a fluid motion).

Yea fluid motion straight into the wall. ;)

SlowbieOne
11-08-2001, 04:19 PM
You are talking about the cheat for flying in JK, which is terrible.

Go play Quake 3 Arena, or Star Trek Elite Force and then tell me flying sucks. It was done perfectly and the control was flawless. How can you possibly say flying sucks, when you don't even know what it would be like?

Don't judge a book by it's cover.

Also I didn't say "jumping" in general was cheesy, because it's a necesity. I said "jumping around foolishly while saber dueling." This wasn't because people wanted to, it's because you HAD to since the saber blocking sucked and it was the only way to evade most of the time.

[ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: SlowbieOne ]

Kurgan
11-08-2001, 05:24 PM
Funny, I thought it was often HARDER to aim while jumping constantly.

I played most of my saber duels without jumping, now that I think about it.

Not that the strategy doesn't sometimes work, but in general, simple footwork suffices (even without neutral force).

Kurgan

Bartolo_JCS
11-08-2001, 07:02 PM
I need to get 250 posts someone think up a new idea hehe :)

$10BOOMBOOM
11-10-2001, 08:24 AM
Come on! start talkin about how u want the game to be !! just TALK!!.......or type....cos technically........u have to type to talk... :confused:

Bartolo_JCS
11-11-2001, 06:29 AM
yes

toms
11-13-2001, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Rogue15:
<STRONG>i want force control, like being able to get in the enemy's mind (first person view from enemy's perspective) and perhaps, shoot his partner, or make him walk right past you, or off a cliff. That'd be cool.</STRONG>

Go and look at Requiem: Avenging angel. The games was quite good, and it copied a lot of JK's force powers, but it had some quite cool ones of it's own. Namely:

Bullet time ;) - sorry. but it did have it first, and it was cool at the time, before i got fed up with it.

Shield - just gave a second or 2 of a shield in front of you. great for jumping out from behind corners. (might work a bit like vader blocking han's laser blast.

Possession - allowed you to control enemies (as above). Was pretty cool. Best bit was the aninmation of you "emerging" from the body afterwards though (guess you wouldn't have that in JK)

Persuasion - my fave power. get about 5 or six grunts running around after you providing supporting fire or working as a huuman shield. (anyone remember Syndicate?? :D )

Blood boil, turn to salt. Both very cool... but i guess not very jedi like...

there were loads of others... can't seem to remember...

Maybe having puzzle soultions including possesing enemies to open doors, turn 2 distant switches at almost the same time etc... (a little like messiah.. but not so full on).

The force thing i didn't really like in JK (sp especially) was force heal... it reduced the game to a stop start affair as you fought, then waited to get enough mana to heal yourself, then fought again. And it made you almost invincible... but very boring. Not really sure how to get around it (except maybe by removing it.)
Maybe instead have the civilians you meet offer to heal you if you haven't been slaughtering them. That would give an advantage to staying on the light side (to counter our evil tendancies ;) )

Of course i suppose a dark jedi could just "persude" them to heal him... but it would mean he would have to use mana and still mean he would have to progress through the game, rather than hiding, waiting and healing himself after every battle.

tomS
PS/ also wanted: Team Force Powers... as discussed in detail a long time ago (and maybe in a OB1 forum far, far away..)

StormHammer
11-13-2001, 04:49 PM
I tried playing an old demo of Requiem: Avenging Angel recently...but it wouldn't recognise my updated DirectX drivers, and kept telling me I didn't have version 6 so it wouldn't run. :mad:

Shame really, because it sounds like fun :(