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nykel007
11-05-2001, 09:53 AM
I'm here only for the day, so I was thinking to myself the other day, that JK2 is a first. To my knowledge it is the first game where you really have, i'll have to say moderate control of a sword rather than a gun. The previous JK games, well let's not go there. :D And I'm a bit tired of the gun blazing Quake theme, sorry to all you Quakers out there.

Darth Lunatic
11-05-2001, 10:46 AM
Which reminds me...
WHen the hell are we gonna get some NEW news about this game. Something about the lightsaber abilities? Is it more extended than in Jedi Knight?? Any news? ANYTHING!

Kurgan
11-05-2001, 05:12 PM
To my knowledge it is the first game where you really have, i'll have to say moderate control of a sword rather than a gun.

Why do you say that? So general a statement would be proven false by such games as Die By the Sword, Bushido Blade series, Obi-Wan, etc.

Of course if you were meaning it has the best saber control in the DF series you might be right (we'll have to see and judge for ourselves in actual gameplay), but that's not really a "first," is it?

I mean right now, JK/MotS have the best saber control in the dark forces series.

Or did you mean lightsabers? If so, there aren't that many games that let you use them, so you could have a point (although Obi-Wan sounds like it has some major saber control, and it will be coming out before JK2).

Kurgan

StormHammer
11-05-2001, 06:42 PM
Actually, I've sort of had an idea...

As we know, Obi-Wan was originally intended/rumoured to be using the mouse as part of a Glyph system to draw your glyphs for different saber moves. I thought that idea was a bit silly at the time...why not just move the mouse to move the saber in any direction?

Anyway, the inherent problem was about mouse-looking while strafing and using the lightsaber.

Well, I now think it could be done...if someone would design a peripheral for it.

What if, on your mouse, you had a trackball (or equivalent) on top (rather than a wheel), that you could use to directly control the blade on screen? You could do a variety of different slashes, and click the ball for a thrust,

So you could still move the mouse to mouselook, and use the trackball to move your blade, while still strafing with the keyboard (or other controller).

I don't think it would be that hard to master such a setup...and it could be used for soooo many other games that feature swords, etc. - particularly fantasy games.

For normal use, the trackball could still have a similar function to the existing mousewheel for desktop applications.

Anyone else think such a system might work?

If so...do you think such a peripheral should be designed?

nykel007
11-05-2001, 06:44 PM
You know I didn't think of some of those titles, my mistake. I still feel it is a first. I did read somewhere that Obi-wan will be usuing a special button for enhanced saber control.

acdcfanbill
11-06-2001, 12:01 AM
you mean that this mouse has a trackball and can be moved? ive never seen mice like that....

StormHammer
11-06-2001, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by acdcfanbill:
<STRONG>you mean that this mouse has a trackball and can be moved? ive never seen mice like that....</STRONG>

That's my point. ;) Why has this kind of device never been designed?

Or has it...and I just don't know about it? :eek:

matt--
11-06-2001, 12:10 AM
I have a mouse with a p.o.v hat on the side of it. I guess that would work. :)

Jedi Howell
11-06-2001, 12:34 AM
what wd make me happy inside wd be a dual-trackball mouse. 2 trakballs. i like regular trackballs for FPSs. u never hv to move teh mouse back onto teh pad. if they came out w/ that, i would love them incredibly. who is 'them'? dont ask. they're watching...

jh

nykel007
11-06-2001, 04:39 PM
I just downloaded the DiebytheSword demo it seems to me quite good but there is still some limitations with the sword arm. With what I can tell from the clips JK2 is very much different. There is much more control of the saber.

rabidpsychodog
11-06-2001, 08:16 PM
dual trackball eh?

StormHammer
11-06-2001, 10:10 PM
rabidpsychodog...

Welcome to the Forums! :D

I don't know about the dual trackballs idea...I mean my fingers would probably get tangled up or confused. ;)

I'd stick with a trackball in place of a wheel, and move the mouse around to look.

Jedi Howell
11-07-2001, 12:26 AM
/me wd go for that too

nykel007
11-07-2001, 09:05 AM
That sounds reasonable.

Bartolo_JCS
11-07-2001, 05:30 PM
What about RUNE on the Unreal engine. You have swords there. Viking swords, nonetheless swords :) do i get jedi knight with 200 posts?

Jedi Howell
11-07-2001, 05:32 PM
/me thinks its aprox. 350-450

jh

GonkH8er
11-07-2001, 07:56 PM
250 i believe.

nykel007
11-07-2001, 09:23 PM
I don't get it. :D

nykel007
11-07-2001, 09:30 PM
I was looking at the viedo at E3, you notice he using a normal mouse and gets nice control of the saber. If you take time to notice, Dan is able to change direction of the sabe slash.

Kurgan
11-08-2001, 12:54 AM
Die By the Sword was a disapointment to me, it was hampered by overly complicated controls (IMO). I much prefer Runes, which are simple, on the level of JK.

I'm sure JK2 will go somewhat beyond what we've seen there... at least I hope so.

But the user shouldn't have to fight with the interface.

Kurgan

Bartolo_JCS
11-08-2001, 05:31 AM
speaking of interface at first I thought the force power using interface was cool the scrolling with q and e then using it with f but then later I realized all it does it make my fingers tired lol and I think that is the main reason people stopped playing ff when the higher end machines came out. With faster machines you have to use force faster and be extremely fast which can be stressful :(

Kurgan
11-08-2001, 01:27 PM
You never used hotkeys? That was something I picked up on day 1. It takes too long to cycle through your powers in MP...

Kurgan

SlowbieOne
11-08-2001, 01:50 PM
Yes, the reason you couldn't keep up with the good FF'ers is because they have hotkeys set up with easy acsess.

You should try it that way, I guarantee you'll fare better. :)

I can't imagine playing cycling through the powers,heh.

Bartolo_JCS
11-08-2001, 03:44 PM
default-wise

$10BOOMBOOM
11-08-2001, 04:20 PM
I have always had an Idea for a light saber control system.

cunningly enough it is a light saber...except without a blade :(

It has a little POV ontop of the handle where your left hand will be when holding it ( think like a golf grip ) This can move your character around, and it seemed to work well enough in Goldeneye and other N64 games. Now this is the cunning bit, when u move the light saber it is translated onto the screen. This will be done by a g-sensor. They use these things in airbags for cars and they are basically a ball inside a tube. When the ball rolls to each end of tube it is sensored using a pressure sensor and in the car airbag system it triggers the bag to go off. In this controller it can move your saber on screen. So that this controller can move along more than one axis the tube in which the ball is, is mounted so that it can swing side to side so that the movement of the saber can move left and right on screen.

Well.... is that workable??? please tell me If Im speeching complete gonads.

SlowbieOne
11-08-2001, 04:34 PM
It sounds like something that can be made down the line, anything's possible. I don't think it would be for everyone, but variety is good.

That reminds me, has anyone played the Star Wars Trilogy Arcade game? I remember playing it about 4-5 years ago, and from what I remember it was pretty sweet.

I only remember it vaguely, but I think it had controls somewhat similar to what you are trying to say.

The Vader duel was awesome! :D

Kurgan
11-08-2001, 05:20 PM
In SWT arcade, there were two sequences where you used a saber (as Luke) in first person viewpoint (against Boba Fett and against Vader).

They were pretty cool, although each sequence consisted of you "using the force" and saber fighting.

However, the onscreen cues would appear before each attack, showing you the only correct move to perform, then you had to perform it. If done correctly throughout, you'd defeat the enemy. So available moves were up, down, left, right, and diagonals. The controller was just pseudo pistol grip joystick you use for the rest of the game.

Kurgan

SlowbieOne
11-08-2001, 09:13 PM
Ahhhh, now I remember, thanks for clarifying that Kurgan.

StormHammer
11-08-2001, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by $10BOOMBOOM:
I have always had an Idea for a light saber control system.

cunningly enough it is a light saber...except without a blade :(


Actually, I had a similar idea for a lightsaber grip control rattling around in teh back of my head...but such a device would be purely limited to a game context, more specifically a game featuring lightsabers.

The reason why I came up with the modified mouse idea was because it would probably be viable as a control device for a variety of applications rather than just games. Replacing your existing mouse with one that has slightly higher functionality might be a more attractive prospect for many PC users (not necessarily just gamers).

I'm not saying a lightsaber handle is a bad idea, but it would really be down to the developer of the game in which it is used to supply it with the game. Considering the likely high cost of development and relatively low number of units supplied with each game, it might not be economically viable.

I just wish mouse manufacturers would look more closely at perceived needs across the board and come up with some more radical designs.

Has anyone got or seen the MS Strategic Commander device? I wouldn't mind something like that for my right hand. With six buttons and three modes, it has a lot of functionality already...imagine something like that with a hat or trackball as well, and you could be looking at some serious multi-functional control in the palm of your hand. ;)

Agen
11-09-2001, 03:45 PM
I once was on a website were a chinese guy had created a lgihtsaber handle with a stick and the movements worked in the game. nI tihnk it was jedi knight modified or another SW but it was cool. he was controlling the movement with his feet i think. any1 recall that???

Bartolo_JCS
11-11-2001, 06:28 AM
yes

$10BOOMBOOM
11-11-2001, 09:29 AM
No

GonkH8er
11-11-2001, 10:39 AM
dont...... this is the only warning im giving. If i see any more posts like those, im gonna get 'tee yuu dubble eff' TUFF

CaptainRAVE
11-11-2001, 12:16 PM
Posts like that remind me of Pretzel :) .

Anyway, yes I have heard of that, but I never actually saw it or downloaded it. I probably would these days with my T3, but I dont play JK anymore. It gets kinda boring after you've played games like Deus Ex, The Half Life Trilogy and Unreal Tournament, oh yea, and of course Elite Force :)