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Moses
11-23-2001, 02:20 AM
The transcript said that Kyle would start out with no Force at the beginning because he was choosing not to. This is going to be a lot more like JK that we thought I guess. I know I was looking forward to sitting down at my computer for the first time and diving back into the Force, but oh well. We won't have the Force or our lightsaber yet. Just a bryar probably, like in JK.

Also before didn't we read about 3 "levels" of Force awareness during the game. That makes sense, I guess. Start off with no Force. Middle of the game (2nd or 3rd level most likely) Kyle goes through a huge cutscene in which he decides he will turn back to the ways of the Force. End of the game when Kyle starts whooping up on people as a full fledged Jedi once again.

In some ways it will let us grasp the game controls before we start adding Force power hotkeys etc. All the same, I think I would have liked it all at the start. :rolleyes:

aferens
11-23-2001, 07:39 PM
No, he will start out with a lightsaber.

SlowbieOne
11-23-2001, 07:55 PM
Actually, it has been officially established he will not have the saber at the begining, Kyle gave it to Luke Skywalker to hold.

I also think it's a shame Kyle will not have at least some force at the start. It seems kinda weak how Kyle "forgot" how to use the force.

This is also very suprising to me because in one of the previews from E3, they said clearly that Kyle would be a full-blown Jedi at the start. Last minute change in the story LEC?

Oh well, perhaps it could be a unique turn of events that could have caused him to forget, hence the name Jedi Outcast.

[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: SlowbieOne ]

TrUeFoRcE
11-23-2001, 08:17 PM
either way there will always be codes so u can start off with all guns and all force powers :D

Seryl Cann
11-23-2001, 08:21 PM
Actually, it has been officially established he will not have the saber at the begining, Kyle gave it to Luke Skywalker to hold.
It could be he gets it back right at the start.

I also think it's a shame Kyle will not have at least some force at the start. It seems kinda weak how Kyle "forgot" how to use the force.
He did not "forget", he chooses not to use the Force. Or more accurately he is afraid he will go to the Dark Side again if he uses them.

StephenG
11-23-2001, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by TrUeFoRcE:
<STRONG>either way there will always be codes so u can start off with all guns and all force powers :D</STRONG>

using codes when you first play the game is pretty cheap. i hope they dont give out codes right away.

TrUeFoRcE
11-23-2001, 11:01 PM
i was joking steph, codes take away from the actual game, but for people who cant live without those sort of things im sure they will be in the game..

aferens
11-24-2001, 12:08 AM
I hope they use something else than "GOD" and "NOTARGET". :p

Millions o' Monkeys
11-24-2001, 08:49 AM
i hope cheats/codes will be nonexistent...like most westwood games.

cheats basically ruin the game.
I mean sure its fun after youve finished the game to walk up to enemies without being hurt then punch them to death or do something gruesom. But they should at least wait a few weeks before they release cheats.

Nyghtfall
11-24-2001, 05:00 PM
Even if/when cheats become available, there's no rule that says you have to use them. If you don't want to cheat, then don't. It's that simple.

GA zaarinn
11-24-2001, 07:47 PM
here's this they have the big cutscene (like they did jk and mots) showing kyle getting his lightsaber from luke and then it probably starts out with kyle being on yavin 4. now i bet everyone who writes to this forum, that i bet 1,000,000,000,000 credits that the game starts with the cutscene and then u start on yavin 4.

Frosty_V2.1
11-24-2001, 11:34 PM
^^^
that start sounds like it's about right. What I'm wondering is when he will he chose to use the force again, maybe an early encounter with a Dark Jedi or something could cause him to rethink the situation.

Jedi Howell
11-25-2001, 01:34 AM
i dunno. maybe a neat little training-style level w/ Jan and KK ambushed by thugs or something, and u learn weapons.

jh

Emon
11-25-2001, 03:52 AM
Yeah, he chooses not to use it because he's afraid of turning Dark. Just like his father, he could've been a full blown Jedi, but he was afraid of his potential.

Toa Tahu
11-25-2001, 01:36 PM
Who is Kyle's father?

Moses
11-25-2001, 06:33 PM
Morgan Katarn. Opening scene from JK. You see him more in the cutscene at the beginning of level 4: The Jedi's Lightsaber I believe.

CaptainRAVE
11-25-2001, 07:18 PM
Yea, but was Morgan Katarn actually a Jedi, if he was, then why was Rhans lightsaber passed to Kyle??

StormHammer
11-25-2001, 07:47 PM
On the subject of Kyle not being able to use the Force, there could be another explanation - that is used in the EU.

His Force powers could have been blocked, so that it is physically impossible for him to use them. I believe this cropped up in Darksaber - or a novel around that same period. Luke encounters a woman who was once a Jedi, and her access to the Force was blocked somehow.

So it might make sense if Kyle starts without the Force.

Although as Seryl Cann said, he might just be trying not to use the Force, for fear of turning to the dark side again. That would be a greater self conflict, and possibly make a slightly better story. ;)

Moses
11-25-2001, 11:51 PM
Hasn't it already been confirmed that he will start out without force powers because of the fear of the dark side? (Ironic actually since fear is the path to the dark side).

Originally it was said he will have 3 stages of Force attentiveness throughout the game. Back then we thought this might mean he was simply "rusty" with his powers and he would start out with something but not much. But recently the new website's FAQ or maybe the chat revealed he will start out with NO Force powers at all. I also believe it said this is because he is afraid of turning to the darkside. Even if I'm mistaken though it does seem to be the most logical explanation.

The overview of what the game says Kyle is a "Jedi Outcast" and that he has lived without the Force and vowed never to use it again because of his fear of turning to the DS from his experience in MOTS. The fact that he was turned so easily frightened him into becoming this recluse. So it stands to reason that that is why he has no powers at the beginning of JKII.

michael
11-27-2001, 03:14 PM
First cutscene: Luke tells Kyle he senses some dark jedi or something like that on yavin 4. First level: Kyle goes to look for it. Kyle finds it. Kyle, having no force or saber, runs away. Second cutscene: Gets saber from luke. Decides to learn force again.
What do you think of that as a beginning? ;)

SlowbieOne
11-28-2001, 12:00 AM
If Luke knew about the Dark Jedi, then why would he send Kyle without a saber and force?

Luke might as well just slice him with his saber and finsh Kyle off by himself. :)

Personally, I hope they have something crafty planned rather than a normal story. One thing that can ruin a game quick is if the story is predictable.

toms
11-28-2001, 02:45 PM
Having the forces "build up" over time is pretty essential. Otherwise (a) the game is very tricky for new players (b) you get some immensely powerful weapons/abilities at the strt of te game and have no incentive to use any weaker ones. which leads to (c) you getting a bit bored of doing the same thing over and over again.

example: max pain. Bullet time is really great... but by half way through you are REALLY bored because it is all you use and it is so powerful that the game is ridiculously easy.

same reason these games always start you off with a pistol... ;)

personally i hope you won't get the saber for at least a while.. i guess about when you meet luke and he talks you into using the force again and you hopefully get to kill some baddies with him.. ;)

i liked the Vision of the Future idea of the force... where it was a bitlike sound... if you used it too much the "noise" drowned out the more subtle noises of the force guiding you. hence those that used teh force for everything, and in bigger and badder ways always seeming to turn to evil.. whereas yoda didn't seem to use the force much at all... an then only when he had to.

SO if kyle has been cutting back on force use, he should be closer to the will of the force than ever...

Kwup
11-28-2001, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by TomS:
<STRONG>SO if kyle has been cutting back on force use, he should be closer to the will of the force than ever...</STRONG>

:confused:

what kinda reversed psych class are you teaching us here anyways?

Moses
11-28-2001, 08:26 PM
I'm with RaoK. If what you are saying is true, I would be more attuned to the will of the Force than Yoda. You have to learn to "quiet your mind" as Qui-Gon said. That takes training, practice, diligence. I'm thinking that while Yoda used the Force to calm himself, keep control and patience, and sense the life around him, Kyle has been slacking off from all of them. No control, no patience, no calm.

Agen
11-28-2001, 08:32 PM
That's why he's a good fun hero

toms
11-29-2001, 01:25 PM
yeah...but you don't have any midichloreans... ;)

basically the idea is that the force talks to you... but if you are busy crashing around FOrce-destructing, lightning bolting and doing other OTT force things (like seems to happen quite often in the EU novels) then you drown out the will of the force with all the force noise you are making...

theorectially, if there is no difference between a rock and luke's ship, then there is no difference between luke's ship and, say, the death star... and so yoda should just be able to do things like send the death star hurtling across the galaxy in a giant game of planet pool. but he doesn't, he jsut leads a simple life in a small hut with icky stew. :)

i think it was partly a get out clause in the novels, because some of the force-feats that had started to be performed were getting a bit silly, and they wanted to reduce them to a more sensible level, and have luke cut down on his force usage a bit...
(they folow it up by saying almost eveything he has done in the novels.. Jedi Academy, vader's fortress etc.. was a mistake.. ;) )

so if kyle has been off doing a yoda (complete with swamp, hut and icky stew) then he might be in a better position to sense a new disturbance in the force than all the other nu-metal-jedi who are running around doing big forcey-things...

i am sure yoda could have explained it better...

acdcfanbill
11-29-2001, 03:14 PM
they were all a mistake? why is that?

Kurgan
11-29-2001, 05:34 PM
The way I see it, the reason Raven is probably doing this (ie: starting you out with NO FORCE POWERS) is so that they can ease newbies (those who have never played JK or MotS) into the use of force powers.

Thus they twist the story around that idea so it makes more sense. Still I think it's kind of lame. But it could still work. But it sounds more like they're re-creating JK. Slowly build up more and more force, so you basically go from zero to 1000 miles per hour in 20 hours (or however long it takes to beat the game). I just hope the force power progression is paced well, if they're going to do it this way.

Kurgan