View Full Version : How to make a better JK2.

stars are bright
06-22-2001, 12:54 AM
JK2. Like it says: Jedi Knight 2. The sequel to Jedi Knight 1. The original Jedi Knight had a lot of flaws. If you want a better JK2, you MUST get rid of the flaws. To get rid of the flaws, you must know what those flaws are.

So I suggest those developers do a few things to make sure the flaws in JK1 will not be seen at JK2:

A)Pay a visit to the zone. Forget about Gamespy or other methods of playing. People who do not play JK at zone are mostly not experienced and they usually don't know how the game works. (Trust me, I've played against gamespy players, and they're just not good. No offense to gamespy players, I understand that most of you lack experience).
Go into zone, enter the room called nar shaddaa, and there you will find a lot of players who can give u advice about JK2.

B)Visit forums of clans with experienced players. Those players are experienced enough to tell you what's wrong with JK1, why it is wrong, and they can even give you advice how to correct the problem.
Here are a few forums:

VDS=Virtuosi De Sable (http://pub21.ezboard.com/fvdsvds)
The clan VDS's got the absolute best JK1-No Force-Saber-players. 80% of all the JK1-players are playing at the setting: No Force,Sabers, and that's why the majority considers VDS as the elitest clan out there. All the VDS members are very experienced(75% of them have been playing JK1 since it was first released), and that's why it's a must to pay a visit to their forum and ask for some advice.

JCS=Jedi of the Crimson Star (http://boards.gamers.com/messages/overview.asp?name=edoras)
JCS is one of the oldest clans JK1 has ever had. They've got a few experienced players, and the clan's well respected.

Prince (http://pub40.ezboard.com/fprincetestmsgboardfrm1)
Prince's also one of those old clans, and although a lot of the players aren't experienced, their leader Yackman knows a lot about the game.

HDK=Heavy Duty Killing (http://pub5.ezboard.com/bhdkmessageboard)
HDK's got a lot of experienced gunners.

EAH_Clown, the hacker (http://boards.gamers.com/messages/overview.asp?name=clownforum)
Clown is the best known hacker of JK1. He knows everything about how JK1's build. He could give advice of how to make the new JK2 hack-proof.

3 other clans that should be taken into consideration are WLP (http://sw.wlp.org/) , RGF (http://www.darkjedi.org/club/RGF/ ) and IGF (http://www.darkjedi.org/club/IGF/ ). These clans are the biggest JK clans. They've got the highest amount of members, and although most of them are rookies, the people in charge of those clans are also very experienced with JK1. it's not possible to post on their private forums, put it it possible to contact their "leaders".

I hope the developers pay attention to my advise. :confused:

Boba Rhett
06-22-2001, 01:09 AM
What are the other flaws? You really only mentioned one. That Jk is easily hackable. JK2 isn't operating nearly the same way jk is. So how would someone who hacks JK help them to stop people from hacking JK2?

stars are bright
06-22-2001, 01:27 AM
Like I said: Go visit those forums and ask about the other flaws!
The people from those clans will inform you of all the other flaws, because there are a lot of flaws, and I don't know all of them. But those people from those clans do know them, so go pay them a visit.

If JK2 really is that differnt, than a JK1 hacker might not be much of a help. I don't/didn't know if it's gonna be that different, so I just put a link up there to someone who knows JK1 a lot and maybe(!!) he could be of some kinda help. You never know what those developers want to know.

06-22-2001, 04:27 AM
Umm.. you have an interesting point.. but the majority of the players that will buy the game won't be skilled players or clanners.. so LEC and Raven will try to satisfy all variety of players. It is good when a game has balance between gameplay and respect of the theme and also when it's fun.

I'm not saying you're wrong, you are correct. Raven developpers need to integrate the community a little bit more like the people of Tribes 1/2 did..

But... could you elaborate on the flaws you have found in JK ..

06-22-2001, 04:32 AM
I think part of ware JK was really cool for me it all the secondary options of gunz. I think it would be cool to see a bit more of that for stuff like the briar and storm trooped. and they better not get rid of the sticky shots for the rail gun

06-22-2001, 05:08 AM
People who do not play JK at zone are mostly not experienced and they usually don't know how the game works

Well, teach them then. ITs the inexperienced players that will make this game succeede financially. And its those players who will advertise the greatness of the game.

I have never touched JK1, And im already into Jk2, go figure.

[ June 22, 2001: Message edited by: [HEL]Diablos ]

06-22-2001, 06:05 AM
I think that chracter classes like in mots can be really fun if they are done right. and a team fortess kinda idea would be cool,

you could have classes like:

Jedi - get's cool jedi powers, light saber
wookie - lot's of health, get's bowcsater and can rip peaople arms off
storm trooper - get's all the neet imperial toys for hunting and killing jedi

you could probly think of alot more, and if they got them all fair so that there wasn;t one that's way better then the others I think that would be cool

[ June 22, 2001: Message edited by: GE Joe Solo ]

06-22-2001, 07:59 AM
What ever dude. Gsa OWns the Zone. :mad:

06-22-2001, 08:59 AM
seeing as i was never really much of a quaker, was q3a or sof for that matter very hackable in terms of what we see in jk?

06-22-2001, 09:12 AM
I don't see anything wrong with Game Spy. I'm hoping they have an in game server search and use Game Spy along with it. Although I haven't been on the zone, since I played Jk online a few years back, so I can't really say anything bad about it.

As for Quake3Arena being as hackable as JK (or EF for that matter). That's a definite no. If there are people cheating at Q3 and EF, it's probably very few and a lot harder than Jedi Knight.

Hacking of the JK game was the main reason I stopped playing the game online. I got tired of seeing people with guns that could fire lightsabers and that sort of thing heh.

06-22-2001, 09:16 AM
Dark Forces was nice, JK was good, what will be JK2 ?*!

06-22-2001, 09:20 AM
we need sabers and forces! without these things it won't be JKII.. it would be nice if both Singleplayer levels and Multiplayer levels were nice and really amazed.

06-22-2001, 01:37 PM
VDS and Prince? Those are NF clans whos memeber will find thier laggy connections a curse rather then a blessing in JK2.

HDK I can respect for NF guns, and they used to have a good FF side. WD and DSbr are he 2 most elite FF clans. WD is also the oldest BTW :p

Why talk to clown? All he did is make more cogs for newbies to download and ruin games with. He also trashed the AHPs which only led to mistrust and damaged the JK community further. I don't know if you've ever been to a major tourney but...

[ June 22, 2001: Message edited by: -WD- ToRMeNt ]

En Taro Taldarin
06-22-2001, 02:14 PM
It's very naive to say players who have not played on the Zone are mostly inexperienced. No one has played even close to the amount of people you would need to play against on Gamespy to make such a statement. Besides, there are other players who don't even play on either, and stick to playing against their friends, I bet quite a few of them could beat the hell out of quite a few on the Zone.

LEC already visits the Zone, Gamespy, all the clan forums, all the fan site forums such as this one, and probably from many places you haven't even heard of too.

Tie Guy
06-22-2001, 02:44 PM
I think that one flaw with JK is that the saber was impractical. Sure, it was kind of fun to play with, and really fun on the Zone, but it is difficult and clumsy in SP. One example is if the computer has a concussion rifle or even pretty much anything, you can either use a long range force power, if you have one, or you can hope you don't get blown away while you run up to him so you can slash him. Now, imaine that there are three or more of those enemies together. It just doesn't work weell. Instead, it is much easier and safer (and i think more fun) to take out a blaster and pick them off as you run up. That way they can't hit you.

The problem was, that that was the way it was supposed to be play. It Should have just been Dark Forces II, because i don't think that they really meant for you to use the saber all that often. That is a major flaw that they need to fix.

Most bought JK because they wanted to play as a jedi. However, you simply played as a guy with a saber and a few powers instead.

When JKII comes out, i hopw you can easily and practically play through the entire game with the saber. That should be you're main weapon, not one you can use for a challenge.

Judging by the e3 footage and interview, it sounds like they are trying to make you feel more like a Jedi. I just hope that that promised is not misplaced as it was in JK.

06-22-2001, 06:14 PM
Well, speaking of winning the game with the saber only, I can proudly say that I did it in both JK & MotS, but, BUT, it didn't feel like the real thing. It was more like having a weapon that kills in one shot most of the time (like the rail-gun in quake 2 & 3) in a short range.

Hope that would be changed.

En Taro Taldarin
06-22-2001, 06:46 PM
It's easy to kill a computer with a sabre and not get blown away. Just strafe from side to side as you're advancing on them. I agree the sabre needs major improvements, but it was easy to use, the third time I beat JK, I used the sabre the whole time as soon as I got it, until I came across situations with which the level was designed so you could not beat it without the use of guns.

06-23-2001, 02:53 AM
You can also just type "red5" at the very beginning and use the saber (as well as force) alone through the whole game. ; )

I know in MotS there were some parts where you had to use a gun, but I don't remember any like that in JK (correct me if I'm wrong there).


06-23-2001, 05:57 AM
NF saberists are only the dominate class in Jedi Knight on the zone b/c they're all newbies that can't get any better. Alot of experts nf saberists now tend to be either be of the newest generation with a handful of older people hopelessly addicted to NF sabers(i.e. HeXeN).

I think whats going to really happen with NF saberists is that a lot of them are going to disapear when JK2 comes out. Q3 engine doesn't support 56kers too well.

JK had it's perks, but I don't want a remake of it. I spent 2 years playing JK and I'm plum tired of its aspects. I don't want the same old crud with a new force power here, and a new gun there disguised with hot-rod graphics. I want the best JK players, FFers and NFers alike to be forced to learn new styles and make new strategies. I want something other than how you play FF now. I want random spawn times on the power-ups weapons. New force powers that do away with old strategies of the old force powers.

Also what I'm looking foward to is having stronger based team play. Relying on your teammates to do certain jobs at a tatical level creates clanning bonds.

Im starting to lose my focus so I'll contribute more to it when I'm thinking clearly..

06-23-2001, 12:33 PM
amen brother

Obiwan was on the right track with the glyph system as far as I am concerned.

06-23-2001, 07:47 PM
People who do not play JK at zone are mostly not experienced and they usually don't know how the game works.

From personal experience, about 90% of the people I've met on the zone were newbs who couldn't spell and were obsessed with JHS. But maybe that's just me.

06-24-2001, 08:33 AM
elaborate sabering systems could be really fun or a massive burdon.. all depends on how they handle it

06-24-2001, 12:09 PM
JK had it's perks, but I don't want a remake of it. I spent 2 years playing JK and I'm plum tired of its aspects. I don't want the same old crud with a new force power here, and a new gun there disguised with hot-rod graphics. I want the best JK players, FFers and NFers alike to be forced to learn new styles and make new strategies. I want something other than how you play FF now. I want random spawn times on the power-ups weapons. New force powers that do away with old strategies of the old force powers.

eVe DeathBoLT, I totally agree with this statement. JK was fun but I just dont get the same kick out of it as I used to. I want a new challenge, and IMHO anyone who calls themselves "elite" or thinks that they are good should too. If we get the same game (which I dont think we will, GO RAVEN) it will be fun but loose it playability quickly. The new emphasis on the saber will calm anyones fears that it wont feel realistic and for those that arent that good using it, will probably make it easier (and harder) to use.

06-24-2001, 04:14 PM
JK2 is being built off the Q3 engine, so it's not going to be vulnerable to the same kinds of hacks that JK was.

I'm not a big saberist, but I just hope they put enough good multiplayer maps in JK2.

06-24-2001, 05:08 PM
Did someone delete my post? I'm pretty sure i posted somthin about this kid bein a newb...


06-24-2001, 06:45 PM
which kid?

06-24-2001, 06:51 PM
actually i hope RAVEN doesn't even bother with the best ff/nf clans. I have a feeling if it were left to most of the expert clans, they'd just end up with a jk remake. they should take a intelligent look at what made several force powers useless(i.e. persaution) and avoid such mistakes which just limit your choice of force powers.

06-24-2001, 07:59 PM
A good point there. I think the best thing about JK was the variety involved, that allowed you to customize your playing style (even more so in MotS). Also the vastness of the game and complexity made it take time to master, but you could still go about it different ways.

Many players have perhaps gotten locked into their own playing styles and would forget about innovation and that sort of thing that new players can contribute and bring to the community.

While it would be nice to get their input, this should be kept in mind. JK2 should appeal to more people than just the hardcore JK clan experts.


06-25-2001, 02:50 AM
although I know some WDs and SyKs would disagree with me, I think RAVEN not knowing how the experts play is a good thing. RAVEN will know basic neccessities, etc. for a good DM/CTF/ETC but it'll be a fresh slate - most expert multi-year jkers still playing JK are limited by a) PC restrictions b) they've become so dependant on one form of play that they never expand to new gameplay methods simply b/c they can't switch to any thing else. and i'd have to imagine that they would have the game modeled after a form which they've repeatedly played for years.

06-27-2001, 04:53 AM
one aspect i really loved about ff was the simple domination you could perform. its one of those things where u can easily kill everyone dropping all others in the ffa or play by yourself with one really lousy teammate and beating both members of the other team..

06-27-2001, 12:26 PM
Yeah, Raven Software Inc. could make a better JK 2 by asking Lucasfilm Inc. to make the game's cutscenes using the original cast of JK.


06-27-2001, 06:04 PM
i hope it uses better music than in JK. More adventure tunes rather than the Star Wars mystery tunes

06-27-2001, 06:38 PM
I loved the ol JK music

06-27-2001, 08:44 PM
ty for making yer sig smaller, ty god.

I meant stars are bright, I posted a very long msg dealing with why most of the "elite" members of the zone community don't have the attention span to explain how or why they play JK to their friends, let alone some Raven guys. Also said that VDS didn't hardly play JK anymore and that he sounded like he was trying to get voted in...

Also somthin bout Clown not knowing anything about q3, there being no cogscript in JK2, etc.

The best the Raven Team can hope to do is listen patiently to the community and hope we offer up some amazing gems of info by accident, or just go play on the zone fer a bit and see what it is we're talking about. Annoymously of course. Both of which im sure they've/re done/doing.

One of the biggest problems with the zone is how self important all the cats seem to have gotten over the last year and a half or so. The folks that are only interested in winning *have* become entrenched like DB said. They don't change, they refuse to give new kids a chance, and they have a strangle hold on the whole place. It might change, but its only got another year to do so.

Didn't use to be like that, for evidence I'd site all the folks that have moved on or switched between nf, ff, guns, sabs etc. Lots of the more mature players are all arounders, and a lot of the really coo ones are gone, playin other games; long since fed up.

I just thought sab's post embodied all that was wrong with Nar, so I said so. Dunno why it was deleted.


06-28-2001, 06:17 AM
$h|T man, music now ? Better check the topic "JK2 inside info/ spoilers


06-28-2001, 06:54 AM
FMV's or no FMV's, JK still is good. I dunnow if JK 2's FMV's, or in-games video's will ever be the same as JK. JK's story was it's most strongest element. What will Raven Software come up with ? Oh, we all know about Kyle finding out about a Dark Jedi developing a powerful new technology that harnesses the Dark Side of the Force. I mean Level storyline and objectives, dumb-ass !