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Vagabond
06-11-2001, 05:23 PM
What multiplayer maps would you like to see in Jedi Knight II? Here's a quick list of things I'd like to see:

Coruscant
Tatooine (Mos Eisley)
Bespin
Nar Shadda
Kessel
Yavin IV
Kashyyyk
Hoth
Mon Calamari
Byss


[ June 11, 2001: Message edited by: Vagabond ]

Zorro
06-11-2001, 05:38 PM
Personally, I'd like to see a map similar to Canyon Oasis. I like having maps that are wide open where all can be seen.

I also would like to see in depth cities from the star wars universe.

-Zorro

wardz
06-11-2001, 05:49 PM
My favourite is alerady going to be included - Cloud city, its gonna rock! Also, Imperial throne room.

Hey Vag, in some other thread you said moderators are being sorted out at some point, who actually selects 'the chosen ones' or do people have to show an interest or do you lot pick someone who you think may be able to help out?

wardz

CaptainRAVE
06-11-2001, 06:00 PM
Hey, those multiplayer maps will ROCK! I love those!

wardz
06-11-2001, 06:05 PM
tut tut - 11 minutes captain sensible, getting a bit late there aren't we? :)


wardz

Swoosh
06-11-2001, 06:07 PM
I really hope Raven puts a lot of effort into the mp maps. Good multiplayer maps make the mp experience while weak ones just make me frustrated. Hopefully LEC will have a patch system in which they release new maps often. Maybe they can include some user made levels too! Even if they don't, it will be a lot easier to distribute levels with dedicated servers. If you don't have the level the server is using, a quick-automatic download will take care of the problem. I would really like to see a map on Endor and of course Tatooine. Hopefully we can et a bunch of classical trilogy locations...that would be awesome!

Swoosh

wardz
06-11-2001, 06:13 PM
I'd go with that swoosh, sounds good to me..

wardz

CaptainRAVE
06-11-2001, 06:33 PM
Very funny Wardz but ive got a big project on at the moment! Knowing raven and looking at EF they will have some good locations i reckon!

Vagabond
06-11-2001, 06:48 PM
wardz, the person calling the shots with regard to forum admins/moderators is ZeroXcape.

My favorite kinds of multiplayer maps fall into two general catagories:

1. Familiar locales from the movies.
2. Urban settings.

For example, in MotS, I loved the Throne Room, Gantry, and Carbon Freeze maps, which were familiar from the movies.

I also liked the Spaceport map, mainly because it felt like Star Wars - it had that civilized-yet-alien atmosphere that also had a really good flow to it. I'm thinking that a Coruscant version of the Spaceport map would be incredible ;)

Ice Man
06-11-2001, 06:58 PM
Those are good map suggestions, Vag.

Krayt Tion
06-11-2001, 08:30 PM
There are a few ways that I've noticed you can successfuly get a good Star Wars theme into your map.

Familiar locations from the movie themselves. This is the most obvious way. Grab that location you see in the films and duplicate it down to each inch of transparisteel.

Certain places in the movies are reflective of cultural settings or standards of groups of people. Note the most prominent features in this area and use them to make a new, completely fresh place in the Star Wars universe for us to play in, this will keep the feel of Star Wars quite nicely.

Map out actual Star Wars locations mentioned in the movies or in the Expanded Universe Literature. These places have already been at least roughly described (but never seen) and it is up to you the interpret these descriptions and make your 3D level come alive.

Finally we have the places that have never been mentioned even in the EU to this point, like many of the settings in Dark Forces. The designer has liberty to pull out of his arse almost whatever he can think up.

My ideal settings for JK2 levels include all of these approaches to map theme, even a mix of them every which way. :) Specifically I don't have any places I can mention right now but some good names have already been thrown out. I'll get back to you.

Wilhuf
06-12-2001, 06:39 PM
Bespin and Byss would rock.

I'd like to see the Ralph-McQuarrie-inspired acquaducts of Coruscant.

http://www.ralphmcquarrie.com/book/25/paint/27.JPG


http://www.ralphmcquarrie.com/book/25/paint/53.JPG
Corellia and
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Chateau/9532/rm/etc/ald01.jpg
Alderaan would be interesting, new, never-before-seen locations.

CaptainRAVE
06-12-2001, 06:48 PM
Nice pictures!!!!!!!

Vagabond
06-12-2001, 06:54 PM
I Agree, Wilhuf, Alderaan, and Corellia would also be excellent venues to visit.

En Taro Taldarin
06-12-2001, 06:58 PM
For simplicity, I'll say all of the above and everything else I'd like. ;)

matt--
06-12-2001, 07:03 PM
Corellia...sounds classy.

[ June 12, 2001: Message edited by: matt-windu ]

En Taro Taldarin
06-12-2001, 07:16 PM
It's Corellia. :)

Vagabond
06-12-2001, 07:29 PM
After thinking about this some more, wouldn't visiting Alderaan entail navigating an asteroid field? It is destroyed during this time period, is it not?

But perhaps in another game, set in another time, when Alderaan's inviting landscapes were available for the intrepid explorer. That would be excellent :)

matt--
06-12-2001, 07:31 PM
Wasn't there a New Alderaan mentioned somewhere?

Vagabond
06-12-2001, 08:14 PM
Actually, yes, I do recall one of the novels mentioning a New Alderaan, but I don't know what it's supposed to look like. Presumably similar to the original.

matt--
06-12-2001, 08:16 PM
That would make sense.

Vagabond
06-13-2001, 11:59 AM
It might be kind of cool to have a map inside the hangar of a Star Destroyer. You could see TIE's hanging in their berths; you could look out past the magnetic field door, out into the main hangar where the Corellian Corvette was captured in Episode IV; there could be a really good weapon spawn inside of an airlock that could be triggered from a secret room, so that if someone tried to get that good weapon, you could eject them into space ;)

Swoosh
06-13-2001, 12:57 PM
Yes, I think the game MUST have some star destroyer or super class cruiser levels. The DF levels in the Arc Hammer and SD were, in my opinion, two of the best in the series. Having some SD levels would put people into an environment they could connect with from the films. Or even some type of space platform would be cool. Terrain and environment diversity are a must for multiplayer maps, even if all the single player levels are the same.

Swoosh

ed_silvergun
06-13-2001, 03:04 PM
I want an assault-style level where one team are stormtroopers boarding a Rebel corvette, and the other team are the soldiers defending it. ;)

Well, I can dream...

Masamune
06-13-2001, 03:51 PM
I'd love to see some cooperative multiplayer.

They could use the regular single player levels as a base to use for the co-op levels.

Two jedi working together besides regular CTF sounds fun, to me at least.

The more multiplayer levels, the better.

Vagabond
06-13-2001, 03:57 PM
Actually, ed_silvergun, there is good precedent for your suggestion. If you ever played MotS, the very first mission involved Rebel Fleet Troopers battling Imperial Storm Troopers. It's one of my favorite levels of the game.

So, I agree, it would be great to take that concept to a multiplayer map in an Unreal Tournament-style assault game mode. The example you've cited - the Storm Troopers boarding the Corvette being defended by Rebel Troops - is a classic idea. It's one of the most memorable scenes from Episode IV.

Along the same lines, a Hoth, Endor, and Naboo would make great assault maps as well. In fact, there are probably several great sources of assault maps in the Expanded Universe.

Great idea :)

CaptainRAVE
06-13-2001, 04:12 PM
I've been saying this kind of thing for ages. Do assault maps like the castle map in UT!

Vagabond
06-13-2001, 04:17 PM
One of my most memorable UT assault maps is the beach landing map. Saving Private Ryan had come out about the time I got UT, and it really made me appreciate the horror of what that must have been like on D-Day.

An equivalent JKII assault map would be equally dramatic.

DeathBoLT
06-13-2001, 04:23 PM
a level where you battle it out not just in a star destroyer hangar, but all over the star destroyer - especially the bridge. battling it out on other ships would be cool as well..

maybe a space suit type thing could be picked up(like the aqua lung in UT or gas mask in DF) and you could fight in a low gravity enviorment..

DeathBoLT
06-13-2001, 04:26 PM
and of course conversions of BGJ, Oasis, and the CTF level Nar Shaddaa(which is undoubtedly one of the best CTF levels ever made). They're classics :)

Wilhuf
06-13-2001, 04:37 PM
The Blockade Runner Assault idea sounds excellent. The Imperial Team must breach the Blockade Runner and find the stolen plans. The Rebels must prevent this from happening.

Rescue the Princess from the Detention Block would also be a classic assault-style level. Set on the Death Star, The Rebel team must successfully breach the detention center, shut down some of the automated defenses, and reach the Princess. The Imperial team must prevent this from happening.

Or how about a 'Steal the Solo' Bespin assault type game: The Bounty Hunter squad must steal the carbonite-encased Han Solo, bringing it to Slave 1. The Rebel squad must prevent this from happening.

Or how about an Assault on Hoth level? The Imperial Squad must capture key defense facilities in Echo Base. The Rebel squad must prevent this from happening.

And of course, as was said, there's Assault on Endor. The Rebel squad must place sequencers at strategic locations throughout a shield generator complex and destroy the facility. The Imperial squad must prevent this from happening.

So many cool possibilities. :cool:

Vagabond
06-13-2001, 04:55 PM
Steal the Solo...LOL!!!

Great idea.

I think I prefer to refer to these "Assault" maps as "Objective" maps.

You know, along those same lines, one could even resurrect that "Escort the Queen" idea that was bandied about when Obi-Wan for the PC was still a sparkle in our eyes. You could have a object-map where the goal is to escort Queen Amidalla up to her throne room, just as in Episode I. The other team must prevent this.

Then there's the objective map with the Gungans -vs- the Droid army. The Gungan objective was a delaying tactic, so perhaps they need to have at least one member survive until the time runs down. The other team must kill all Gungans before time runs out...can't imagine there'd be a shortage of volunteers for that ;)

How about a "Blast ouf of Mos Eisley" assault map? One team has fight their way through the streets of Mos Eilsley, reach the Falcon, and lift off. The other team has to prevent this. As a variation of this, perhaps you also need to safely escort an old man, a boy, two droids, and no questions asked ;)

[ June 14, 2001: Message edited by: Vagabond ]

Mafia_Jabba
06-14-2001, 12:58 AM
Those pictures are sweet..very cool...a complex aqueduct system sounds very cool for a level..

Outdoor terrains...from my understanding..are a no-no on the Q3 engine..

However, I'd like to see some original maps...and original locations so the creator doesn't have to feel locked down...Mabe a lost colony on Tatooine with caves, canyons, and puebloes...Or mabe an entire arena of very complex metropolitain areas..anything that plays well and is very immersive in the star wars univers....

I don't mind bad graphics outdoors..as long as the gameplay is solid

matt--
06-14-2001, 01:15 AM
Who would volunteer to be gungans?

digl
06-14-2001, 01:34 AM
Nobady :D

Good map suggestions
I hope there is a wide variety of maps and MP modes
They havent mentioned much about it, I hope there include an assault like mode and at least one or two another modes, besides CTF and all variants of DM

ed_silvergun
06-14-2001, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Vagabond:
<STRONG>Actually, ed_silvergun, there is good precedent for your suggestion. If you ever played MotS, the very first mission involved Rebel Fleet Troopers battling Imperial Storm Troopers. It's one of my favorite levels of the game.</STRONG>

I know, it's one of my favourites too. There certainly is a lot of scope for innovation in the MP side of the game. Let's hope Raven agree! :)

Vagabond
06-14-2001, 01:14 PM
Oh, and as a bonus map, it would be excellent if they provided a professionaly-done version of Duel of the Fates. I played that third-party map for MotS, and it was awesome. Having such a map would be great fun for saberists and gunners alike.

[ June 14, 2001: Message edited by: Vagabond ]

ed_silvergun
06-14-2001, 04:13 PM
I won't argue with you over that one.

CaptainRAVE
06-14-2001, 05:20 PM
I think it would be cool if you had to unlock multiplayer characters and maps in some way. Maybe by finfing in game secrets or something :)

Lucky
06-14-2001, 08:47 PM
I think JK's lvls were great in that most of em embodied the gameplay inherent in the game very well. SW locales don't need to be presented perfectly imo, just elements of them that compliment the gameplay of JKO, however it develops.

Expecting a perfect image of Coruscant or Corellia is just silly. It's gonna look like its gonna look to offer great game play. And its gonna feel SW'ish. Thats about what you can expect. =P

Lucky

DeathBoLT
06-14-2001, 09:49 PM
maybe a bombed out version of Oasis... after all those conc shots, the bridge, pool, etc. must show some wear and tear..

GonkH8er
06-14-2001, 10:23 PM
i'd like to see a junkyard style map...... with rusting ships and droid junk everywhere.

a town is also another thing i'd like to see. maybe with a subway system or some kind of transport. shops and malls and stuff...... it'd take a while, but if it was done well it'd be popular


hey, raven might even contact jeff and ask for the right to do a drazen remake :)

Vagabond
06-15-2001, 12:44 AM
That sounds like a cool level, GonkLu4.

;)

matt--
06-15-2001, 12:45 AM
All these huge maps. I think you guys would really enjoy Star Wars Galaxies.

Vagabond
06-15-2001, 11:07 AM
As a map with a lot of atmosphere to it, what about one that's like an abandoned spaceport? Did anyone ever see the original Heavy Metal movie? There was a scene in there with a B-17 bomber crew, and to make a long story short, the last survivor bails out over an island to escape the undead creatures that were taking over his plane. Thinking he's escaped, he begins to explore his new home, and at the center of the island he discovers abandoned aircraft from several eras. There are biplanes and triplanes from WWI. There are all variety of bombers and fighters from WWII. At first he's curious, until he realizes that these planes also come with their undead crews. It's a really cool episode in that movie.

Anyway, along similar lines, an abandoned spaceport with all varieties of ships might be an interesting map. There could be Republic, Imperial and Rebel fighters. There could be freighters, and small capital ships such as Corellian Corvettes, all rusting through, some fallen off of their landing gear. A few might still have operating gunwells that you can use to shoot at people with. It should have a spooky atmosphere, with appropriate deserted-wind sounds, and ocassional dust-gusts.

Just an idea.

[ June 15, 2001: Message edited by: Vagabond ]

SithSeeD
06-15-2001, 01:09 PM
I was talking to Chris Foster (Design Lead for JK2) the other day. And I suggested a multiplayer map too him. Battleground Jedi, redone with the amazing Quake 3 engine... ohh makes me want to drool. Anyway I explained that it is probably the most loved map from JK and seeing it in JK2 would be amazing and the fans would love it.

He said he would mention it to LEC.

Quite cool indeed.

SithSeeD :mad:

Vagabond
06-15-2001, 01:20 PM
Well, let's just say that there are many loved levels from JK and MotS, that being one of them. I'd love to see Spaceport, Imperial Throne Room, Carbon Freeze Chamber / Gantry from MotS redone for JKII.

Wilhuf
06-15-2001, 01:29 PM
Honestly while I like the JK/MotS levels, I'd rather we get all new levels, rather than revisit the maps we've all been playing for almost 4 years.

For instance, do we really want to play Spaceport again only jazzed up on Q3 tech? Sure it would be fun for a few, but if it's basically the same level again, we're just running in circles.

Although maybe a few remakes would be OK, but not at the expense of getting new maps with new gameplay.

I'd wager that fans will remake the JK/MotS levels anyway, if Raven/LEC don't do remakes.

ZeroXcape
06-15-2001, 01:40 PM
If Raven doesn't do a Canyon Oasis remake, someone will within the first month of its release. As Swoosh mentioned earlier, I hope the MP maps are stellar. It really keeps the MP scene going...

En Taro Taldarin
06-15-2001, 02:14 PM
New Alderaan was mentioned in the novel The Courtship of Princess Leia. It was an uninhabited planet originally, but because of its similarity to Alderaan was inhabited by the people who formerly lived on Alderaan.
I think it would be a great location for multiplayer. Another place I'd like to see as a location for multiplayer would be the planet Corran Horn goes to in I, Jedi while pretending to be a mercenary.

ed_silvergun
06-15-2001, 03:19 PM
A couple of revisits to old JK and MotS levels would be cool, but not at the expense of new levels.

I would like to see Spaceport, The Valley Tower, Gantry and The Throne Room converted. Oasis would be quite cool for a quick blast, too.

Obi Kwan
06-15-2001, 03:27 PM
I think it would be cool to be aboard some type of small starship as it is flying at lightspeed. Maybe make a room with windows all around so you could see all of the stars rushing by, etc. It would just make a cool atmosphere.

En Taro Taldarin
06-15-2001, 03:35 PM
Yeah, I'd love that, as long as you didn't actually fly the ships. ;)

CaptainRAVE
06-15-2001, 05:25 PM
There may be the possibility of new unknown locations.....like in EF. That would be real annoying, but its unlikely.

TheJackal_jk2
06-15-2001, 06:30 PM
Raven <U>must</u> have a look at Unreal Tournament, Counter-Strike and of course... JK & MotS maps.

MY fav in UT are:
-Morpheus (deathmatch)
-Facing Worlds (CTF)
-Gothic (deathmatch)

C-S:
-dust (terrorist must plant a bomb. Counter-terrorist my prevent it, or disarm it)
-dust2 (bomb)
-inferno (bomb)
-oil rig (escort VIP to safety)
-high rise (bomb)

JK & MotS
-blades of death
-all the movie maps (but I ask that the weapons and etc be better placed and balanced)
-hum... memory blank.

Swoosh
06-15-2001, 07:22 PM
Raven members are obviously gamers...so I have no doubt that they will look at other successful multiplayer maps and try to take what they can from them. Does anyone know about SOF and EF's multiplayer maps? How were they or did those games even have mp modes? This could give us a good idea of the quality of maps we would be getting.

Swoosh

CaptainRAVE
06-15-2001, 07:36 PM
Ef maps were quite good. But could have been better. They should have had more locations from the film etc. The add-on pack gave us a lot of new and interestiong features.

matt--
06-15-2001, 07:37 PM
Face and morpheus are great!

You just can't find too many servers that host morpheus. :(

Swoosh
06-15-2001, 08:57 PM
Well, I'm assuming we can expect similar, if not a bit better levels from RAVEN. I mean, this is the biggest game they have ever worked on. You'd think they would put more effort into it than any other title to date...right?

Swoosh

DeathBoLT
06-17-2001, 02:15 PM
i hope they create new DM levels, but carry over the organic feel and rolling hills of BGJ to other sabering levels. Flat and blocky levels sets the standard for the movie style dueling which I really don't see possible in online games for awhile. Per se you need to make levels that are designed for WASD(movement) based play. In FF the organic and rolling design of BGJ allowed near countless force speed+force jump possibilites. Sabering only levels = curved terrain is the way to go.

For guns I hope for open levels that offer varying degrees of attack. Levels that put everyone on the same floor tend to get boring after awhile. Levels that give you room to run and give u various top levels to fight for control of produces a sort of play that people keep coming back for. Oasis offered this, Q3DM17 offered this, and so on.

I'm having trouble describing the yardstick that any good DM level is measured by, because the proper words and descriptions don't easily come to mind..

As for CTF, the best way to put it: Large Maze-like levels is how to make for advanced team strategy play. The Challenge at Nar Shaddaa is one of the best ctf levels ever. It offered unique team strategies. Hell, a game of 2vs2 Nar Shadddaa to 200 points is usually at least an hour long commitment between two good teams because a good strategy is so neccessary. I don't think I've ever seen a q3 level offer more than grab the flag and haul ass outta there stategy. I'd like to see even larger levels than Nar that support many more players.(Nar would start to get small in 4+ vs 4+ )

NeJJa
06-17-2001, 10:38 PM
i have the SOF demo, and the MP levels seemed to me to have

architecture
many hallway, room, hallway, room type deals. nothing innovative.

weapons placement:
good. they would put high powered weapons either in a place that is hard to reach or a place you are easily seen and picked off from. (eg end of a long narrow hallway, or on top of a bunnch of crates.)

pace/ gameplay:
i think this is where they excelled
the maps my friends and i played on LAN were very entertaining. they had a real nice 'flow' to them, and it was hard to camp any certain spots.


the SOF multiplayer maps are fun but nothing weve never seen over and over before. i hoep JK2's are better.

(btw raven kicks ass hehehe) :eek:

acdcfanbill
06-18-2001, 02:57 AM
Hmm, i always thought a rooftops of coursant would be a great lightsaber level. something to the effect of you have to jump from rooftop to rooftop, landing on catwalks, or fire escape-like devices (of course, fire escapes would be too useful many km. in the air). the updrafts of air between buildings could help for longer jumps and softer landings. although if jet packs are included, this could negate some of the fun associated with this level, if i wasnt so terrible with JED i would have worked something out like it already. anybody else feel the same?

Vagabond
06-28-2001, 02:04 PM
That's a great idea, acdcfanbill, and I actually like the idea of jetpacks for non-Jedi classes, since they won't have force jump.

From another angle, the dark, belly of Coruscant would be fun too, where only a dim twilight from the sun above filters down to the alleys and shadows below. Rumors are that unknown creaturs and sub-humans dwell in the dankness below, where people seldom venture. This could be a spooky MP map.

Similarly, on Kashyyyk, Wookies live in the tree tops, and as one progresses down toward the forbidden surface, the creatures become ever more vicious. This could be an interesting setting for a MP map as well.

Kurgan
06-28-2001, 10:48 PM
I like the idea of fully modeled movie locales (and EU locales) using the pretty engine. ; )

How about Jabba's Palace (inside and out)?

Somebody's idea of the battle over the great pit of Carkoon with floating skiffs (pilotable?) sounded cool.

Forest moon of Endor (with speeders?) ; )

Imperial Throne Room, it was great in MotS.

Duel of the Fates saber dueling scene from TPM.

Nar Shaddaa with it's vertigo inducing visuals, passing ships, scum, and graffitti is something I'd like to see again too. ; )

How about the Emperor's secret cloning facility?

Rebel Base at Hoth?

Lot's of stuff that could be done. Of course I'd love to see lots of high quality CTF maps. Taking a hint from the likes of UT and of course the granduer of the larger two JK CTF maps.

Kurgan

Vagabond
06-28-2001, 10:57 PM
The number one MP map that I hope to see is Mos Eisley, complete with cantina and docking bays. That's always been my favorite movie locale, and it would just ROCK to play a well done map of it.

Ice Man
06-29-2001, 12:32 AM
Some of these suggestions are sounding really great! I'd like to see a large hangar bay, with lots of ships and crates around. I'm talking like Lambda-class shuttles, YT-1300s, Mobquet Transports, some cheap fighters like Z-95s...

Anybody else liked X-Wing Alliance? :)

matt--
06-29-2001, 12:40 AM
Great game that XWA.

SlowbieOne
06-29-2001, 01:35 AM
How about a Jabba's sail barge level set in the Tatooine desert above Sarlaac? Just like the movie, they could have One big barge (Jabba's), and a few smaller ones, and u hop from barge to barge, or battle in the big barge. Or slowly be digested over 1,000 years, haha. I can picture it now... Sorry if this was mentioned. If they dont make this(which they prolly wont) u can bet i will!