View Full Version : The Final Word on lightsabres underwater....

Ari-Ben Kenobi
06-25-2001, 03:29 AM

I haven't been here in awhile so I have just been going over all the old posts. Now, on lightsabres under water, its quite simple. By looking at obi-wan and qui-gon sabres, they are completely enclosed EXCEPT for the opening where the blade comes out. So...water would go down that tube which would short circuit the electrical components inside, HOWEVER, all you have do is have a little automatic hatch above the opening which in the blink of an eye (or less) opens and closes when the blade goes on and off, and the blade works perfectly fine under water, its "pure energy." By the way, Jude Watson got it all wrong in that one Jedi Apprentice Book when Xanatos was attacking the temple that they couldn't go near the water tanks because the water would short-circuit the laser beams. Once again, this is wrong, because the lightsabre is not a laser. By the way, I am really sick of the EU, these people cannot right worth crap. Jude Watson constantly puts Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in situations where they are in severe danger and just fail to use the force, like when Obi went one on one with that one bounty hunter and lost his sabre, what did he do? Did he use the force and simply rip it out of her hands from a few yards away which is the most easy thing in the book for a jedi? NO!! He runs away makin Obi look like a wussy. None of the EU has any talent, this NJO series has gone on way too long and taking away the purpose of the Skywalker Bloodline by making the Yong or Zong more of a threat than the Sith, which is utterly stupid. And another thing, IMHO the reason GL got EP1 screwed was that he was rusty, under pressure, had to wide a scope to fill in, and was trying to reach all age groups. In many scenes we are left to discussion or wandering around without action, which I enjoy because we get a look at the culture of star wars, however, little kids get bored, so he added jar jar. It was a serious mistake. By doing so he added to childish a factor which took away from the seriousness. Comic relief should have been put on the shoulders of the relationship between Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, Threepio and R2, and maybe a wisecrack from Yoda, after all, Jedi are not just droids with the force, they are people and do have real emotions, something which George failed to put in. If George had :
Removed Jar Jar
Added more mysticism to the force
Added a more darker side to Anakin
Added more to Kenobi than "Yes Master"
Added Amidala and Kenobi relationship
Limited the final battles to 3
And added more Maul

We would have all been very happy, for it was not the overall storyline we were angered about, but the details that killed it. By the way, Kenobi and Skywalker are the coolest Jedi Bloodlines ever, Katarn can kiss my butt as far as I'm concerned. I will still say that Katarn is cool, but both Luke and Obi-Wan could have chewed him up and spit him out.


06-25-2001, 05:00 AM
Added Amidala and Kenobi relationship

its anakin + amidala.. duh!


06-25-2001, 02:40 PM
lol...hmm I just don't know how to read that long post...i guess you are all right..but you gotta remember one thing..George lucas does not endorce most of those Extended Universe thingies

Boba Jim
06-25-2001, 02:55 PM
As for the saber in the water thing;
In the Episode one script, it includes a section where Obi Wan explains to Qui Gon why he wasn't fighting back against the flying battle droids after they landed on the planet. The reason was because he fell in some water and shorted out his saber. I believe they even shot the line but it didn't make it into the final version. You'll notice Obi Wan is wet when he comes running from the trees and Qui Gon destroys the battle droids chasing him. In the script he gets a bit of a talking to about being so careless. So that's that.

06-25-2001, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by Mafia_Jabba:
<STRONG>lol...hmm I just don't know how to read that long post...</STRONG>

Ha! You obviously have yet to learn the ways of the Force Long-Post. I have learnt the ways, but my powers are weak, and I don't use it very often. Others, however, seem to make Force-Long-Posting a regular occupation.....

06-25-2001, 09:09 PM
Bah! And in (Lucas approved) Splinter of the Mind's Eye, (written and taking place just after ANH), we see Luke using his (Anakin's old) lightsaber underwater with no problems.

So I guess waterproof sabers were invented sometime between Episode I and Episode IV.

Also, techincally, Lucas has to endorse ALL of the material that bears the official Star Wars logo (it's all officially liscensed material). If he didn't endorse it, it wouldn't be official (not a tautology, just explaining how that works). ; )

What Lucas has said is that when it comes to making the new films, he may choose to deviate from any Star Wars canon laid out previously by other authors in telling his stories. They're HIS stories after all.

Hey, there's even stuff in the original novels that was changed (the spelling of Jabba's name/title and his physical description, etc) from/to the films. The point is that Lucas, as the owner/inventor of the genre, gets to play around with his creations as much as he wants, and you need his permission before you sell something using his names and characters.

Since the part about underwater sabers shorting out didn't appear in the actual film, Lucas isn't under any obligation to adhere to that "rule" in his remaining two films, logically. And if he still wants to, he can just use the explanation I provided above, free of charge. ; )


[ June 25, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

Boba Jim
06-25-2001, 10:48 PM
Well if you're going to get far to serious about it; that Splinter of the Mind's Eye story never took place as fas as the movies are concerned. It or any other book certainly cannot be considered a part of the story seen in the movies.
That's spending way too much time thinking about though. :rolleyes:

06-25-2001, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by Ari-Ben Kenobi:
Removed Jar Jar
Added more mysticism to the force
Added a more darker side to Anakin
Added more to Kenobi than "Yes Master"
Added Amidala and Kenobi relationship
Limited the final battles to 3
And added more Maul

1. I've got nothing against Jar Jar. He added a little bit of comedy to the movie. The movie doesn't have to be all serious.

2. I do agree that they took away some of the mystical feeling of the force. But it still is mysterious. Just a little more scientific added to it.

3. Why should Anikan have a dark side. He's playing a part of a hero now. Surely in the next films the dark side will envelop him, but not now.

4. I didn't see this as too much of a bad thing. He was the student suckin up to the teacher :)

5. I'd definitely say no on this one. Anikan and the queen get together. Not Obiwan and the queen.

6. Limit battles! No way. The more battles the better :D

7. I think we saw enough of Maul. ( even got to see his inside ;) )

06-26-2001, 12:25 AM
if you have guide to star wars universe it says everything might not be accurate to the lucas vision

06-26-2001, 10:07 AM
In a universe as wide and varied as that of Star Wars where different authors have written different stories over a long period of time, you are bound to come across contradictions.

Is this unrealistic? No, quite the opposite. If you read different two different history books, each about, say, the Russian Revolution or the Vietnam War, will they give you the same account? Clearly not. History books differ both stylistically and in actual factual accounts. That's part of what makes history so much more fascinating for me than math(s) or science. You have to decide for yourself what you ultimately believe. It's not so clear-cut.

It's just the same as Star Wars. Not all the accounts will be exactly the same in every factual detail and we shouldn't expect them to be. Remember that the saga took place "long ago in a galaxy far, far away" so to expect complete consistency throughout every book, film and video-game is a bit of a tall order.

The Wanderer
06-26-2001, 04:52 PM
Ok... ::uses force long post::

1. Jar Jar was not a little comic relief. He was the star of the movie. Jar Jar Binks actually had more scenes and lines than Obi Wan, and possibly Anakin as well. You could always count on Jar Jar to completely take you out of the movie with zany un-star wars like antics. He helped make episode one the "poopie joke movie"

2. They took away MOST of the mystical feeling of the force. You see, the Force isn't really a mystical energy surrounding everything. It's really just a bunch of tiny microscopic beings living in your blood. So in order to be a jedi, it has nothing at all to do with a profound spiritual connection with the soul of the universe, don't be silly, ha ha ha, no, in order to become a jedi you merely have to have a lot of microbes. If I wanted bad pseudo science, I'd go watch a Star Trek movie.

3. I don't think Anakin NEEDED to have more of a darkside to him (allthough this would have been great foreshadowing, a basic storytelling tool). Rather I think the problem was that he was an ANNOYING little kid with lines like "it'll BLOOOOOW you up". A kid who can't act, and has this smug little ego about him the whole time because "he's a big star now", and thinks he knows everything. A typical hollywood kid who is smarter than all the adults and gets into wacky adventures. "UH OH, I took off in the ship despite that the adults told me to stay put and accidentally blew up the droid command ship, he he he" Which fits episode one well since it's the poopie joke movie, but isn't very becoming of the future dark lord of the sith.

NOTE: for a well written child character and good child acting see the sixth sence.

4. One of the MAIN problems with that movie is that Obiwan was a suck up. I want to know where was the brash young reckless Jedi who thought he could teach Anakin as well as master Yoda could???? He could have been a great tragic hero, who had a fatal flaw. But no, the ONLY reason Obiwan trains Anakin is because Qui Gon begs him to do it on his death bed despite Obiwans whining about it being a bad idea throughout the rest of the film.

5. Agreed on Obiwan and the queen not getting together, she ends up with Anakin. But I do have a thing or two to say about the queen. was the queen a clone? was padme a clone? were they BOTH clones??? who was the queen and who was padme, and when was the queen the queen, and when was the queen padme??? They really did a lousy job on explaining this, and I'm still quite confused. I don't know who was who when, and so I really don't know them. it's hard to feel for a character when you don't even know when that character is that character.

6. I'm not quite sure what was meant by limiting the battles, so no comment.

7. I'll comment more on Maul later, but his main problem is that he was all looks with no substance. He had no lines, and when he wasn't fighting he didn't do anything besides stand around. His ONLY pourpose for being in that movie was so there could be a saber fight.


8. For some reason they decided to focus on Jar Jar and Qui Gon as the main characters and not Anakin and Obiwan as they should have. You could have fixed 60% of what was wrong with that movie by focusing in on Obiwan as the main character, and making him a more independent thinker. (ie: reckless) When they land on tatooine Qui Gon could have sent Obi Wan out to look for parts while he did something else important (meditate or something, it's a movie they could make something up) Then Obiwan goes to look for parts at wattos shop and meets Anakin. Obiwan on his own sees Anakin's potential, Obiwan alone decides to rescue him and train him. All going on behind Qui Gon's back making it seem all the more like something a youthfull inexperienced character would do.

Now if you really want to make things interesting, back when everybody's getting set to leave tatooine and Darth Maul and Qui Gon start fighting. Darth Maul needs to kill Qui Gon then and there. This has a two sided effect. First, it makes Darth Maul actually seem like a threat. He has now done something besides stand around and look cool. He has done something evil, he makes the audience hate him, it's added emotion to the film (something that was sorely lacking) and it makes Maul seem tough. No longer just a cool visual he would have become an actuall threat. The other effect this has on the movie is it adds a whole lot of tension and puts Obiwan in an interesting situation. Suddenly the student now finds himself in charge and making the calls. Obiwan has to now grow up, and grow up fast. And he has quite a challange ahead of him, Darth Maul was good enough to take out his master, what chance does he, the former student have? It would have added a lot of emotion to the final saber fight at the end. A fight which could have tested Obiwan, pushed him close to the dark side due to his strong anger for Darth Maul, a fight that could have been symbolic representing Obiwans struggle as he transforms from student, to master. that's what that movie COULD have been, but no, we get Jar Jar Binks and poopie jokes instead.

Qui-GONE Jinn
06-26-2001, 05:07 PM
Many good points, although I don't totally agree on the Qui-Gon-critisism (sp?)... I mean, would he send a boy out to do a man's work? If I'd been Qui-Gon, I'd definitely go out and look for the hyperdrive parts myself, and not send my apprentice, regardless of how good he was.

Jar-Jar's role in the movie should be heavily toned down. He could've been a character that the audience could have had sympathy etc. for, and he just became a mixture between Chaplin and Goofy.

The Wanderer
06-26-2001, 05:21 PM
it's not a qui gon critisism, I just don't think the movie should have focused on him. That'd be like ANH focusing on Obiwan and not Luke. Besides you could write just about any decent excuse for sending Obiwan to fetch the parts. Maybe there's something even more pressing that Qui Gon has to take care of himself, or maybe Qui Gon senses that Obiwan's destiny requires him to go out on his own, anything.

06-26-2001, 11:29 PM
5. Agreed on Obiwan and the queen not getting together, she ends up with Anakin. But I do have a thing or two to say about the queen. was the queen a clone? was padme a clone? were they BOTH clones??? who was the queen and who was padme, and when was the queen the queen, and when was the queen padme??? They really did a lousy job on explaining this, and I'm still quite confused. I don't know who was who when, and so I really don't know them. it's hard to feel for a character when you don't even know when that character is that character.
the queen was padme. the queen is a look a-like body guard and doesn't make all the big descisions. when qui-gon told the queen she had to leave b/c something was really odd about the trade fed's invasion, etc. the queen said something to the effect "The journey will be dangerous and difficult" and one of the servants(padme) said "we our brave". when anakin came to see padme, 'she was out' and the queen(padme) made the appeal to the senate. it all came out when the queen was making an appeal to the gungan king and all the sudden the servant starts talking.

should be clear enough :)

06-27-2001, 01:10 AM
1. Jar Jar Binks didnt really have any prose accept to lead them to the city of thead and help lead the gungans into battle thats it He sucked still.

2. The Force was at its beginning what do ya expect for the first Storyline flim of the trilogys.

3. LOL its the beginning of Anakin's Life well for this series anyways. He did have a small ego but is growing stronger. Anakin and Obi Wan will have moreof a story in Episodes II and III. So that will be the beginning of the Dark SIde for Anakin.

4. Obi Wan didnt have much of a story yet ya right he was a abit of a suck up yet couldnt even save his master with force speed thats sad. He was right on the Way of Qui Gon and Maul yet he didnt force speed over to his master so ya knew his master was going to die.

5. Ok who ever doesnt get this ya just need to leave the Star Wars Unvierse forever. Anakin and Padmae are the ones that get together and have Luke and Leia. Not ObiWan and Padmae but Anakin and Padmae.

6. Hell na if anything there wasnt enough battles in Episode I. So I say **** you We needed more battles in E1.

7. Maul he was cool yet He was used George Lucas used Ray Park just for a kick ass Saber Battle. Darth Maul what was used for 15 mins and then died. Darth Maul was a True Sith Apprentice he would have lived . (So Darth Maul was Used)

So quit Complaining Ari-Ben-Kenobi

06-27-2001, 07:17 AM
/me eats pie

06-27-2001, 09:15 AM
I agree with you, Ari Ben Kenobi..

the force is with US!

06-27-2001, 11:40 AM
For the first time ever , I'm beginning to trust a Sith Lord's words.

Vader's right. Obi-Wan Kenobi could have saved his master using Force speed. It's not like he doesn't have this specific force
power. He and Qui-Gon use Force speed on the Trade Federation droid control ship to avoid being blown to bits by the destroyer droids.


06-27-2001, 02:08 PM
If you read star wars.com..it said that even Jedi's can become fatigued spiritually and physically...so after fighting a long time his force was really weakened

Old Jedi Ben Kenobi
06-27-2001, 02:51 PM

I think this link will clear up some things.

"Physical and mental exhaustion play a role in the use of Jedi powers."

During the duel, Obi-Wan fell of the catwalk a few levels, so to join Qui-Gon again, he had to work his way up, which must have tired him. Also, Qui-Gon was reckless. In the end, he decided to fight Maul alone, without waiting for Obi-Wan. How thoughtless is that? Maul had shown that he could fend off both Jedi at the same time, so what was Qui-Gon thinking?

06-27-2001, 05:51 PM
ill tell you what qui-gon was thinking........script says go in room with the actor that plays darth maul fight for awhile then let him kill you then go to Mr. Lucas for paycheck.

Guys it was a movie and in movies people follow scripts and they dont wear bracelets saying "WWJD-What Would Jedi's Do"

[ June 27, 2001: Message edited by: HyperAquaBlast ]

06-27-2001, 06:40 PM
What the hell was THAT last post about?

06-27-2001, 09:24 PM
lol hyper :D
Qui-Gon was reckless. In the end, he decided to fight Maul alone, without waiting for Obi-Wan. How thoughtless is that? Maul had shown that he could fend off both Jedi at the same time, so what was Qui-Gon thinking?

Well...he couldn't just run away as a chicken could he? Maul was slicing and dicing at him and IMHO I think Maul lured Qui-gon away from Obi on purpose...
He may be dead in 15 min of the film but that doesn't make him stupid ;)

The Wanderer
06-27-2001, 09:32 PM
Yes, Qui Gon deliberately let Maul kill him so he could then in spirit form help Obiwan fail to properly train Anakin.



06-28-2001, 02:50 AM
it was a setup George Lucas had to re write TPM story 3 times. Once because he didnt like the story. twice to add new actors third time well I dont know why.

Qui Gon is kind of pointless the SW TPM . Yet Obi Wan didnt really need a Master and Obi Wan was too much of a Suck up to his Master.

Old Jedi Ben Kenobi
06-28-2001, 02:02 PM
HyperAquaBlast, your reply is correct. Lucas wanted to kill Qui-Gon, otherwise the whole saga would be screwed. I was simply replying to those who were accusing Obi-Wan of being responsible for Qui-Gon's death.

As to my comment on Qui-Gon's thoughts, when I said he was thoughtless, it was because after meditating a little, instead of being defensive and evasive until Obi-Wan could reach him, he suddenly launches an impressive barrage of strikes, which, unfortunatly, has the secondary effect of wasting his own energy and giving Maul the chance to kill him.

As for Obi-Wan being a suck up, is that what you call someone who is constantly disagreeing with his master? Just because he said "Yes, Master." a lot doesn't make him a suck up, in my opinion.

06-28-2001, 10:51 PM
Of course the scene with Obi-Wan's lightsaber fizzling out because of water is "not part of the movie" either, since it doesn't appear anywhere in the film.

So I think we have nothing to say that lightsabers are water-resistant, or damaged by moisture, except in non-movie sources (which conflict). ; )

My point was to refute the "final word on..." original statement, since there is no final word (final word being "proof" in the movies).


Boba Jim
06-29-2001, 12:00 PM
Well.. :p ..while Obi Wan never says his lightsaber fizzled out in the film, the fact remains that he couldn't use it when the droids were chasing him and he was all wet. So you could easily infer that .... :rolleyes:

06-29-2001, 12:08 PM
I'd like to point out that in the book of the movie, Obi-Wan says after the two droids on STAP's ( Single Troop Aerial Platorm ) have been blown to bits:
"Sorry, Master. But my Lightsaber got fried..."


06-29-2001, 02:44 PM
Well again, not in the movie... then it doesn't have the same status as what is in the movie.

Heck, in the EU there's tons of stuff going on "behind the scenes" that could be inferred if you wanted to (ie: Shadows of the Empire, select scenes mentioned in Zahn's first trilogy, events of Dark Forces, etc).

The novel of TPM also mentions stuff not in the movie like about Darth Bane, etc.

Lucas said his stories didn't have to gel with anything in the EU. We can infer that means that the movies are supposed to be coherent, but the other material may or may not be. After all we're dealing with multiple timelines done by multiple authors.

Yes, if you want, you can show me where all of the non-movie sources about the events of TPM show that Obi's saber fizzles out (ie: won't work when wet) but that doesn't mean that it has to be that way (since it's not in the movie).

Just as the force is detected by midichlorians (in the movie) as opposed to something else (explained in some novel).

Of course, I admit, it's all fiction, so it hardly matters, but if you want to argue continuity and what is "Lucas's original/authentic vision" then you have to stick with the movies.

Now of course it would hurt my argument if the new TPM dvd has the deleted scenes that have Obi-Wan and Qui Gon talking about how wet sabers don't work incorporated into the regular film (aka: Special Edition, or like they did with X-Men), but we'll see. ; )

On a side note: What about when Obi and Qui Gon went to Gungan city? They clearly got their sabers soaked there too, but we see no mention of it. Or is it just that if a person has the saber ON and gets it wet that it shorts it out temporarily? It is some time before we see either Jedi actually use his saber after their dive.

I think perhaps what the underlying issue here is that people are wondering if, in JK2, will we be able to use the lightsaber underwater (as we could in JK and MotS). That is an issue for the Raven/LEC devs.

Personally I don't see why they should change it. After all, the EU supports lightsabers underwater (SOTME at least, is the only source outside TPM that I know of that addresses the issue at all), and it was in the previous games.

If you want, just say they invented water-proof sabers after TPM.


Boba Jim
06-29-2001, 03:36 PM
I think Raven will make saber use underwater possible in JK2, but when you turn it on, everybody in the water gets a good shock, or all their hair falls out cause of the electrolosis. :p

06-29-2001, 06:40 PM
Well whatever, as long as everytime you try it, it doesn't go into a cutscene where the ghost of Rahn scolds Kyle for "being so careless."

Maybe a nice joke could be inserted, like the first time Kyle fires it up, you hear him mutter to himself "good thing this thing works underwater."


07-29-2001, 05:28 PM
did anyone else read the obi-wan interview where it was said that in obi-wan sabers will automatically turn off underwater, and it was based on the deleted scene from Eps 1 where obi-wan fried his... maybe obi-wan just doesnt know how to make waterproof sabers, or none work underwater... hmm, interesting...

07-29-2001, 06:00 PM
In The Phantom Menace you couldnt have the lightsabre on. I wonder what Raven will do....

Seryl Cann
07-29-2001, 07:03 PM
I've found something that might be a script for episode 2. Now, I'm not going to say too much, since a lot of people don't want to know (if it is the real episode 2 script). I hope it is the real script of episode 2, cos it would kick ass!
Amadila and Padme are sisters in that script (probably twins).
There is a lot of fighting (Jedi vs Sith, Jedi vs Mandalorians, Dark Jedi vs Sith, Dark Jedi vs Jedi, etc) in it, with a scene where someone uses a saber under water. Maybe he removed that scene where Obi Wan's saber is fried from episode 1 so he could do the under water saber scene in episode 2.
Jar Jar is in it, but a bit more serious and would actually fits into the movie (if he didn't talk so weird).
We'll see a bit more of Palpatine's Dark Side (including what he can do).

Now, about episode 1:

When you don't compare it to episode 4-6, it is a good movie, not as great as 4-6, but good. (except for Jar Jar)

There wasn't enough fighting in the movie?? We saw more (and better) real saber fighting in that one movie than in episode 4-6.

Obi Wan could have fried his saber in different ways than with water. He could have reflected a blast too low on the saber or something.

I don't think Obi Wan was sucking up to Qui Gon. He was an apprentice talking to his Master. You're suppose to have respect for your Master. And just because Obi Wan said he was a "brash young reckless jedi" in episode IV (i think) doesn't mean that he actually was.

07-29-2001, 07:35 PM
And i believe that is actually THE FINAL WORD :cool: