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Captain-Olm
11-06-2001, 06:41 PM
Cuz JK2 is based on Q3 Engine, so it is not too hart to publish Counter-Strike on JK2. I searchs programmer who wants to help me. I would coordinate the project. It would be called "Jedi Strike" i think it would be make a lot of fun if you start with the saber as knife and the brayer charge pistol as hand gun :)
mailto: olmi@gmx.at

matt--
11-06-2001, 07:30 PM
Isn't counter strike based on the half life engine?

CoinFlippa
11-07-2001, 01:41 AM
Hahahaha... Yea, so like, Counter STrike uses the Quake III engine, which is based off the original half life game released three years ago. Yep, three years ago, they had the quake iii engine and then they used that engine and exploited it to make it quake iii arena game, which made millions of big bucks. HAHAHA JUST PLAYING!! I'm such a player, I get chicks. Chicks get me.
I dunnno.. I think this will be my one and only message cuz they'll ban me for my info. i'm so stupid, but you're stupider!!
okok.. i'm being a moron... coin flippa out!

matt--
11-07-2001, 02:22 AM
You should be banned. The majority of the people in Afghanistan are taliban(i think its 80% or so). Because women don't have rights over there, I doubt they choose their political alliances.

Where's Kurgan with his banning gun(TM)?

TrUeFoRcE
11-07-2001, 03:12 AM
umm good luck finding a team but i doubt u will get far, most mod teams like to have original ideas, and making cs for jedi isnt that smart since people will have cs2 soon, even if u can successfully create a mod it wont go far

GonkH8er
11-07-2001, 04:53 AM
It's under control :)

GH is on the scene....

SlowbieOne
11-07-2001, 05:14 AM
Yea, so like, Counter STrike uses the Quake III engine, which is based off the original half life game released three years ago. Yep, three years ago, they had the quake iii engine and then they used that engine and exploited it to make it quake iii arena game, which made millions of big bucks

What does this mean and what is the point of it?

matt--
11-07-2001, 07:13 PM
he thinks the quake3 engine is based on the half life engine. And this non-fact makes it easy for him to port it. :rolleyes:

GonkH8er
11-07-2001, 07:56 PM
lol the halflife engine is based on the quake 2 engine, isnt it?

SlowbieOne
11-07-2001, 08:48 PM
I thought the Half-Life engine was original, not the Quake 2, but I could be mistaken.

Wilhuf
11-07-2001, 09:48 PM
Half-Life engine is in fact based on the original Quake1 technology. Valve obtained a license from id in order to develop Half-Life.

But the modifications are extremely heavy. So much so that some at Valve have claimed that Half-Life is really no longer Quake1 tech.

Actually it's a good thing that Id and other software developers build upon existing technology. No need to reinvent something that works very well as a foundation.

Part of the reason that Valve was able to develop and publish 'Death Match Classic (DMC),' a remake of some of the original Quake1 deathmatch maps, was because the right to do so was part of the license they purchased from Id. Although Valve did clear it with Id before publishing, of course.

Anyway, on topic, yeah I think some kind of squad-based tactical play for Jedi Outcast would be a lot of fun. Either Raven or the mod community should produce something like this.

[ November 07, 2001: Message edited by: Wilhuf ]

Kurgan
11-07-2001, 11:05 PM
Actually, didn't the HL team upgrade to the Quake2 engine? More properly HL is a Q2 tech game, not a Q1. That is what happened with most of the Q1 engine games being developed around that time (SiN, Diakatana, etc).

Of course it was heavily modified, and they did start with Quake1, but I swear they used Quake2 in the final analysis.

Personally I think Half Life is highly overrated. Some concepts are good in general, and some are over-used. I guess what I'm saying is that people shouldn't expect every game to be just like Half Life. Even if Half Life in many ways was "just like every other FPS" it just did a good job of bringing it all together (and was popular as a result).

I know there are people who play nothing but CounterStrike, etc, much in the way many of us played "nothing but" JK for quite some time, and certainly other games can learn from their success, but I think also that it's important to move on and develop new ideas and concepts. Jedi Knight did this in its own right, building on the concepts that Dark Forces and other later FPS's (including LEC's own Outlaws) after it.

JK2 will do the same, I'm sure, and may incorporate some ideas from HL that the team finds valuable and transferable. But just because something worked well with HL doesn't necessarily mean it will automatically work just as well in JK2 (though that would be a good guess).

I'm sure they know what they're doing.
; )

Would I play JK2 deathmatch? Sure. Would I play JK2 "counter strike"? Sure. But I'd like to see something a bit more, for lack of a better word, fresh, as these are somewhat well-worn gametypes. Though it is true that with force/saber, there is a little bit of variation thrown into the mix from the get go (and that too can be played around with).

But then again, who am *I* to tell people how or what to make mods for in the new game? It's their time, they can do what they want (within the limits LEC/Raven sets in the liscense, however that will pan out).

I'm just saying what I'd like to see... whatever Raven/LEC doesn't do for us (and here's hoping the editing scene is allowed to go whole hog) then you'll get your chance!

Kurgan

[ November 07, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

StephenG
11-08-2001, 05:55 AM
good luck in finding a team. A mod is hard work, u cant just say "i'm starting a mod today".

btw...have you had any experince co-ordinate-ting (think that how you spell it)a mod?
anyway good luck and perhapes get some experince first

[ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: StephenG ]

Darth Lunatic
11-08-2001, 07:37 AM
Kurgans right. Half-Life is based on the quake 2 engine.

Wilhuf
11-08-2001, 03:47 PM
Here is what PlanetHalflife (http://www.planethalflife.com/half-life/guide/faq.shtm) says about it (for what it's worth):

Valve originally licensed the source for Quake engine from id Software and they began working on that code around October of 1996. Between October of 1996 till the time they finished Half-Life in October of 1998, they modified, removed, and created about 70% of their Half-Life coding. Not only did they got (sic) license for the Quake engine, but also got Quake II engine too.

I doubt the Quake2 engine was not available as early as October 1996. (It might have been.) Although it's possible Valve integrated some of the Q2 tech into Half-Life.

Kurgan
11-08-2001, 08:53 PM
For what it's worth:

Half-Life was originally developed using the Quake engine, then they moved to the Quake2 engine. Half-Life's final engine is almost a complete rewrite but still contains bits and pieces of Quake and Quake2.

http://www.3dgw.com/game/review/half-life/

Half-Life itself was based for 30% on the Quake2-engine and the presently popular Counter-Strike uses that engine too.

http://www.erwinspages.bewoner.antwerpen.be/epc/epcarticles/epcreviews/csrev.htm

Other sites that "think" that Half Life is based on the Quake2 engine (regardless if it began development with the Quake1 engine):

http://www.gamersdepot.com/games/rev-game-half-life.htm

http://www.phdweb.force9.co.uk/index2.html

http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/k6comp/2.html

http://www.mobygames.com/game/view_review/platformId,3/reviewerId,584/gameId,155/

There seems to be some controversy on the 'net over whether HL uses the Quake1 or the Quake2 engine, though every review I could find claimed HL was a Quake2 engine based game. The people who claimed it was quake1 based were mainly posters on message boards.

although my memory serves that it began with Quake1, and then switched to Quake2 but much of it has been reworked (as with games like Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine which uses the Sith engine) to the point where it doesn't resemble either game that much.

But as I see it, either it was based on the Quake2 engine or it wasn't. Many sites call it a "Quake1/Quake2 engine game."

I guess the best source would be the HL design team themselves, but I haven't been able to find any good "proof" quotes either way.

This controversy even appears on http://www.g256.com/archive/arc29.html where we see this:

Bill and I seem to be disagreeing about whether or not Half-Life was based on the Quake1 or Quake2 engine. While snooping around, I found this really old press release... It really gives you a feel for JUST how old Half-Life is:

Unfortunatley they don't tell how the debate turned out.. ; p

Other sites claim it was a combination of both Q1 and Q2 engines:

http://www.gamespy.com/halloffame/june01/halflife/index2.shtm

http://www.tf2.dk/tech.asp

http://redwood.stomped.com/pics/halflife/halfldoctorback.jpg

http://redwood.stomped.com/597.html This site establishes what we already knew (that HL began with the Quake1 engine).

http://www.google.com/s earch?q=cache:_lC-DpvlhJ0:www.voodooextreme.com/articles/interview_ht.html+valve%2Buses%2Bquake%2B2%2Bengin e%2Bhalf%2Blife&hl=en (http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:_lC-DpvlhJ0:www.voodooextreme.com/articles/interview_ht.html+valve%2Buses%2Bquake%2B2%2Bengin e%2Bhalf%2Blife&hl=en)

I can't get into VE (must use google.com cached pages), but they have an interview that seems to indicate that both Q1 and Q2 were used in Half Life.

Kurgan

[ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

Kurgan
11-08-2001, 09:15 PM
Interesting quote from the last page I listed:

VE is Voodoo Extreme, 'Harry' is Harry Teasley of Valve Software (who made Half Life).

VE (8): A lot of people have been confused (As have I in the past) about whether Half-Life uses the Quake or Quake2 engine as a basis. Care to explain?

Harry (8): We have the source code to DOS Quake, Win Quake, GL Quake, Quake World, Quake 2, and the various patches. We pick and choose what is most useful for us from each. And obviously we have made a lot (and I mean a *lot*) of modifications to the engine to support the gameplay we are after.

VE (9) What kind of enhancements have you made to the QuakeX engine? We know about the skeletal animation, among other things...any that are often overlooked?

Harry (9): The animation is a big one: it allows in-game cinematics at little cost, and it just flat-out looks amazing. Colored lighting and 16-bit color in software, switchable trains you can ride and control, fog effects, alpha-blended decals,... the list goes on. But a game is not a
conglomeration of technical features, a game is an experience where the player has fun solving problems and doing fantastic things. The
interesting question is not what have we done to the Quake engine, but what have we done to the Quake experience? The answer is, "We've done a lot."


Kurgan

UGG
11-17-2001, 02:40 AM
I would coordinate the project.As opposed to actually doing anything on it! :rolleyes: Gooseman virtually made CS himself, Cliffe just did support stuff. Even if you did get a project started the real talent in the team would quickly take it over and dump you! LOL! :D

Half-Life was built around the Quake 1 code base, but then Valve replaced the low-level stuff, like renderer and netcode, with Quake 2 code when it became available.

Anyway, the engine is not that important. Look at Urban Terror! Just because it uses the newer Quake 3 engine does not automatically make it a CS killer.

Millions o' Monkeys
11-18-2001, 01:46 AM
didnt valve confirm it was the Qauke 2 engine

StephenG
11-19-2001, 01:46 AM
i found this at: http://www.3dactionplanet.com/news/archive.asp

Thanks to VE for pointing out a .plan update by Gearbox Software's Sean "Zoner" Cavanaugh. In the update Sean clarifies some incorrect HL: Playstation 2 info that has been appearing in reviews.
Factoids:

Full Plan:

Plan:
Nov 17 2001
Factoids:

I have now seen two reviews of Half-life for PlayStation 2 call the original Half-life for PC 4 years old. The original came out in November of 1998, which makes it exactly three years old now.

The models made for Half-life Dreamcast and the Hi-Definition pack are not the same as the models in Half-life for PlayStation 2. The Playstation 2 version has more detailed
models.

Half-life is NOT based on Quake2. There is little to no Quake 2 code in Half-life. All the work Valve did for Half-life was based on the Quake 1 code, of which whole sections were replaced entirely (skeletal animation model system, entity handling in C++ instead of QuakeC), and other sections given major rework (16 bit software rendering, EAX and A3D audio, networking).

go too: http://finger.stomped.com/plans/seanc@gearboxsoftware.com.php3

UniKorn
12-05-2001, 04:55 AM
From a cstrike question to a hl question. Argh.

BTW, it is

Dieu me pardonnera, c'est son mEtier.

Kurgan
12-11-2001, 12:35 PM
I'm afraid "little" counts as some, if there is some Quake2 engine code in HL, then it counts as being based on the Quake2 engine, by any definition, just as Indy Infernal is based on JK's "sith" engine, even though less then 5% original code remains.

Liscenses need to be purchased, and did they not in fact purchase the Quake2 liscense? If they used Quake2 code, they would have to have obtained the right to use it. Even if they modified every bit of it, they still had it as their source, hence the foundation. Anyway, not that it matters to much, but I think we can put it to rest.

The Half Life engine is a hybrid of Quake1 and Quake2 engines, according to the evidence. All reviews refer to it as a Quake2 engine/tech game which seems to be accurate enough.

Kurgan

Captain-Olm
12-12-2001, 10:23 AM
Hehe i did not know that i will get so much replys. So,
Counter-Strike is based on the game Half-Life which is based on the quake 2 engine. The "Half-Life Engine" is only a better q2 engine.
To CS for JK2
It WILL get speciell, just because you have the weapons out of the Star Wars universe. In CS you have very realistic weapons. In JK2 you will have science fiction weapons. So it would be make a lot of fun to hunt the terrorist with the force powers, which will give you a lot of tactical options. By the way: I am german and i hate it to write on english :D so if here are other germans please response in our language!

Darth_Lando
12-18-2001, 02:13 PM
Well we certainly got hung up on engines in this post ;) .

Perhaps now another view can be mixed into the pot.

Make a MP mod of JK2 but take the teamplay aspect of Counter-Strike and put it to use in the Star Wars universe.

For example: Astromechs- they wouldn't be any good in a fight but they would be handy in overriding computer systems to turn turrents on enemies, closing doors, locking doors, opening doors, downloading information, ect. It would be up to the teammates to keep their Astromech alive.

Assasin Droids- good for taking out Jedi.

and so on...

I have thought of a few MP team play maps that may or may not work. I'll probably never make these so if any of you feel inspired take the ideas and do what you will with them:

Episode 4 A New Hope: Play in the opening Battle scene of Episode 4 as Leighs ship gets boarded by the Empire. Team 1 is the Empire that storms the ship and Team 2 are the Rebels. Objective: Rebels must find the AI bots of R2D2 and C3P0 and guide them to the escape pods for victory. Empire must destroy all Rebels or destroy R2D2 and C3P0.

Shield Generator: Fought at Endor. Rebels must get inside the Death Star shield generator and plant the bomb. Empire must kill Rebels or defuse bomb.

Tractor Beam: Team 1: 1 person plays as Obiwan. Team 2: Storm troopers. Obiwan must go to one of the 3 tractor beam power sources and turn of the power. Obiwan has full force power, troopers only have laser guns. (This could be real fun!)

Sandcrawler Team 1: Jawa's (2 lives) Team 2: Stormtroopers (1 life). Stromtroopers searching for C3P0 and R2D2 fight to destroy the jawas. Jawas get 2 lives per round.

I have many more but you get the point. I personally think this would be some fun team play action.

Captain-Olm
12-20-2001, 04:28 PM
Hm.....but this would be like team fortress, or else.......

JediMastyre
01-09-2002, 04:47 AM
Hello All

I am new to these forums. So hows it going.

Being a programmer and very interested in JK2 and Counter Strike I have a couple of comments related to a "CS JK".

First to the guy wanting to do the mod..or TC..you have one big unknown at this point. If they do not allow you access to the engine...that is through some formal SDK you will NOT be able to do a mod. However, you will probably be able to do a mod based solely on new maps. But all game functionality is still inherit to JK2.

I am been ambisious enough to persue a HL TC in the past based on the Star Wars universe and unless Lucas Arts is willing to give up potential revenue by competing with your mod they probably will not release an SDK.

All that said....

I am personally really hoping for an SDK as well as a level builder of some sort. I am really hoping Lucas Arts will embrace the gaming community with freedom to explore these avenues.

So this is what you have to consider.

Also as a programmer and a little connected with the CS community...most are getting tired of the same old thing. Most want to see something different and involving. I like the idea of an astromech taking over bots or doors or something. I would also like to see ION based weapons and a whole lot more.

Anyway...

I look forward to JK2...I am hoping it will offer what the gamers and Star Wars fans are looking for. But I have not yet been let down by Raven...so there is hope.

Thanks All

JediMastyre

digl
01-09-2002, 12:58 PM
Welcome to the forums JediMastyre
Iv not been checking this thread, but as Mastyre says, an SDK released by LEC would be great to make good TCs
Who knows, maybe we get it

About a level builder, Im 99% sure JORadiant or similar will be released

Gonkish
01-21-2002, 10:35 AM
key thing here is... why would we even WANT a counter-strike-type mod for JK2 (or JK for that matter)? I can see the class-based gameplay for something like CTF or UT's Assault mode or something, but why ANOTHER direct rip of CS? I mean, sure, it'd be prettier than HL, but ultimately I'd be looking forward to something along the lines of "Jedi Fortress" (TFC). All in all I'm hoping for enough modding and mapping talent to come to JK2 and grow out of the exisiting JK community for us to have some distinct JK2 mods, instead of paltry rehashings of popular mods.

What I'm really hoping for is a revival of Infiltrate!... that'd be great. That was an outstanding mod (for its time), and is still basically the only semi-complete multiplayer mod that has been released for JK. Not only that, it was original. There was no mod like it for Q2, and UT wouldn't be released for a year. There was nothing like it. All in all I'm saying, WE DON'T NEED REHASHES. CS is an excellent mod. It's for HL. Let's leave it that way, please. Last thing we need is the whining, swearing, all-around idiotic 12-year olds who populate the pub servers in CS to be JEDI of all things.. And you thought grip was cheap NOW.. yeesh..

--Gonk

(Must.. find.. old.. forum.. password...) :mob: