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View Full Version : How about a Role Playing MP mode?


SSH83
12-08-2001, 12:41 AM
A few threads down there is a rather long thread concerning the balance between gun and saber in MP in fear of the repeat of the problem from JK where a newbie using Concusion Rifle can outgun and overcome experienced saber user with ease. One possible solution, was be the combination of penalty of speed and access to the force power when a player uses a gun. In that the saber user would have advantages in force power and speed to counter the gunner's advatage of attacking from long range.

However, this "solution" would not help balancing the MP if a player can simply change into saber when using force and change back to gun whenever attacking. In response to that, a special MP mode might need to be included for players who are not big fans of Quake-Style rampage killing. That special mode might be a Role Playing mode, where as a player might be able to choose to either be a Jedi or a Gunner, where as the first would not be able to pick up guns and the later would have no access to saber or higher lvl force power. That way players won't be able to "cheat" by changing between being a gunner and a jedi situationally. Not only that, with this Role Playing mode, JK2 will be vastly different from being just "Quake with Force Power," but more like how Team Fortress Classic made a breakthru for Half-Life multiplayer.

Comments, anyone?

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Okay, as Kurgan pointed out, I didn't really mean role playing as in RPG style (with an exp system and stuff), but solely a class system like TFC of Half-Life.
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SSH83
12-10-2001, 01:00 AM
Doh, only 8 votes so far. Does that mean nobody really cares?

StormHammer
12-10-2001, 05:33 AM
I voted for classes, ie, RPG stuff. The more the merrier, IMO. There should be more choice of gameplay styles...and that way the game should last at least another 4 years. :D

Darth Lunatic
12-10-2001, 07:14 AM
I'm pretty sure they'll have classes. MOTS had classes which would lead to assume that Jk2 will.

Kwup
12-10-2001, 07:23 AM
when I posted a thread about pers everyone said they were bad, now everyone wants them


bah

Kurgan
12-10-2001, 10:29 AM
Well I'd reiterate that there's obviously a big difference between putting in a class system for Multiplayer and making it into a "role playing" mode (ie: something like SW Galaxies or something).

Sure it might add a "level of role playing" but no more than say Team Fortress Classic adds to Half Life's MP.

It's a worthy option, that I enjoy as a diversion from classic deathmatch, team deathmatch, and ctf options. Having assault type game modes that are goal based is also fun, but it isn't necessarily "role playing." I guess it depends on how you define that. I usually think of stuff like character development and interactive storyline, elements which appear in the game anyway, but in far lesser degrees in FPS games (even in games like Deus Ex and System Shock) than actual RPG's (like Baldur's Gate, or Final Fantasy).

But, for the developers, adding a class based mp system I would think would be far easier and more in line with their project than implementing a pseudo Galaxies mod (but that would still be cool to see anyway sometime after its release, officially or unofficially).

Kurgan

StephenG
12-10-2001, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Darth Lunatic
I'm pretty sure they'll have classes. MOTS had classes which would lead to assume that Jk2 will.

there is no point of classes if there is no objective based maps. I hope to see some teamwork objectives maps like RtCW. Something like getting some files or planeting a bomb or something.

Vagabond
12-10-2001, 12:32 PM
I have to disagree. The classes (personalities) in MotS were exceptionally fun, and yet the game had no objective-based game types. Agreed though, classes would lend themselves quite easily to objective-based gaming.

I concur with Kurgan that any "rpg" implementation in JKII should not go into the depth of Star Wars Galaxies. I think the degree of so-called role-playing in JKII should be as follows:

1. Species with attribute advantages / disadvantages, and optionally special abilities if applicable. For example, Wookies might have more strength and hit points, but be slower and more susceptible to flame weapons. Conversely, a Mon Calamari might have lower hit points, also move a bit slower, and suffer from even more slowness in a desert environment, but could stay submerged in water indefinitely without drowning, and has resistance to freeze-type weapons. Humans would likely not have any special species-related abilities.

2. Professions with special skills and skill levels. Medics would be able to heal themselves and others with special equipment. Techs might be lightly armed, but can hack in and seal blast doors, re-route security cameras, rig explosives, plant or detect surveillance equipment.

3. Lastly, a large variety of skins to implement the Cartesian product of all combinations of species and professions, such that rather than only one available skin, there are several skins to select from for, say an Ithorian Jedi, or a Talz Heavy Soldier.

Important to point out is that no skills should affect any action that you can perform yourself, such as your shooting accuracy. But they could affect the rate at which you can do things, such as a low medical skill only lets you heal people at a slow rate, while a high medical skill lets you heal them much faster. Similarly, let's say you were playing a Noghri Assassin, and that Nogrhi are able to run faster and jump higher than most species. So, you are just able to run at a faster rate and jump to a higher height than most, but still you must control all those actions. Lastly, say you're a Quaren Tech, and you're trying to weld shut a blast door from the Rancor that's charging toward you; the higher your welding skill the faster you can seal the door. Of course, if you had no skill at welding you could still use the welder, but it would take even longer.

Basically, one could allocate skill points similar to how one created a personality profile in Mysteries of the Sith. One might have 20 points to distribute among all your skills, perhaps even including Jedi skills if that's the class you've chosen. I can see how all the possible combinations of species, class, and skills would add up to endless variations and fun.

Agen
12-10-2001, 03:38 PM
If they add it then that means they have to leave the polishing on some stuff just to do that.... i say leave it to the modders!

CaptainRAVE
12-10-2001, 04:16 PM
Yea.......I think its more fun for people to make themselves. It gets the community motivated and brings everyone closer together reviewing each others achievments etc.

Vagabond
12-10-2001, 04:20 PM
I'd rather have Raven do it. Nothing against modders, but if something is professionally produced and sold, then more people will have it, which is a huge bonus since most servers prevent downloading of mods in-game.

In addition, it will likely be more polished and supported than if done by someone in their free time. My position is that it would be much easier for Raven to implement a feature like this, along with any possible customization of modification of the game engine.

This proposed gameplay type has the potential to be an awful lot of fun, but it can also be a huge disappointment if not done properly. Due to the sheer vastness of skins required, and the gameplay balancing, I believe a professional game development company is better suited regarding the resources to properly develop and test a product such as what is being discussed here.

This is my opinion.

WD_ToRMeNt
12-11-2001, 06:04 PM
BAH! If you want an RPG get galaxies or that other game (I forget the name) based on the infinity engine. I'm sure everyone would be happy to frag a would be RPGer (read: easy kill). A frag is a frag.

StephenG
12-13-2001, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by WD_ToRMeNt
BAH! If you want an RPG get galaxies or that other game (I forget the name) based on the infinity engine. I'm sure everyone would be happy to frag a would be RPGer (read: easy kill). A frag is a frag.

we are not talking about mp RPG were u collect items are go on quests. Were talking about a MP mode like DoD, TFC or RtCW, u know class bassed stuff that requires teamwork.

Tay-Mar
12-13-2001, 02:29 PM
So u wanna turn JK II into some pseudo Front Line Force type thing ?


I say NO................

Class based games are great for co-op team based situations and make for a good laugh when played over the net, don't you guys think that the gaming public has had enough of this type of game ?

I agree that FLF isn't the best example but even TFC has it's downside and heaven forbid that JK II should become the dull CTF game that i feel Star Trek Voyager became.

How many of u still play that........eh ???

I've played my share of class based games, I've been a member of a successful UK CS clan, I wanna move beyond this type of game. Team based objectives sound good, something that'll keep u engrossed, don't get me wrong i still want 1v1 Death Matches, i still want CTF and most of all i want saber dueling, no guns, no grenades, no trip mines, just u, yer lightsaber, yer force powers and somebody to really slash the #### out of :)

Dirth Vedar
12-13-2001, 02:47 PM
I think team play is not a bad idea, if you throw in the star wars theme. Some people enjoy dueling, and that's great, I believe they should have that. But then I think they should definitely have an option for team play. Not something lame like capture the flag... I mean, they can be creative.

Like 2 teams, the empire and the rebels, and the objective is for the stormtroopers to bust into a rebel corvette to stop r2d2 from getting to the escape pod with death star plans. And everyone will have blasters, no sabers, no forces, no jedi, just a good old fashion shoot out.

Hehe, they can even do something like the hunted in TFC, someone can be R2D2 running for its life.

digl
12-13-2001, 04:18 PM
that was going to be included in PC OW, a protect the queen mode, though I dont know what happened when It was ported

If the game only includes CTF as a team playing mode (team DM doesnt even count) It would really disappoint me, team games of rebel vs empire would be great (with player classes), and more modes like that could exist, like jedi vs sith, ie fighting for the control of the valley

Darth Lunatic
12-13-2001, 11:21 PM
That protect the queen mode for obi-wan was basically the same idea as protect the VIP in counter-strike. I think that type of MP mode would work a lot better in Jedi Knight 2 though.

If JK2 can somehow get away from the 'guns blazing' style of gameplay that quake3 had, then the multiplayer will instantly be better. Unless of course you enjoyed quake 3.....

sanpilou
12-14-2001, 07:46 AM
JK2 MUST HAVE THE SAME KEWL MP AS JK1!!!!!!!!!!!

StephenG
12-14-2001, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by sanpilou
JK2 MUST HAVE THE SAME KEWL MP AS JK1!!!!!!!!!!!

okay, that fine but i think there should be more mp modes than just your standard deathmatch.

digl
12-14-2001, 01:14 PM
JK2 should have better mp than JK
Difficult task, but possible

SlowbieOne
12-14-2001, 02:07 PM
I found the personalities in MotS to be very cool. While not completely original at the time, it worked very well.

I also liked Kill the Fool With the Ysalamri about 10 times better than JK's CTF for one reason: ORIGINALITY

How many times are we gonna see the same thing over and over again just ported from other games? It seems as if developers think it's mandatory now that a FPS must have a Team Based or CTF mode.

What happened to originality? That's what made KFY so fun for me. Not only that, but it fit in the Star Wars universe so much better than CTF.

Don't get me wrong, I liked CTF, the first time I played it. But I found myself saying, " again?" and "Why am I running all the way to another base, just to get this stupid worthless flag, then bring it back to my base to worship or whatever they plan on doing with that useless thing?"

I say since they already announced a CTF mode, I hope it's not capturing an actual flag. I hope it has an actual point that is signifigant in the Star Wars Galaxy. I'd rather they dump the CTF mode alltogether and put in something original like KFY.

My bottom line is this: I can come up with something a helluva lot better than the same old CTF, I just wish the developers would take a chance on something new.

StephenG
12-14-2001, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by SlowbieOne
"...I just wish the developers would take a chance on something new..."

amen to that bother!

StormHammer
12-14-2001, 04:24 PM
Yes, different MP modes than the norm, such as CTF etc., would certainly set this game apart from the rest. As you said, KFY was original, but then so was the style of JK's gameplay. If they can't fit some new MP modes into the game, I definitely think there should be an expansion pack somewhere down the line that focuses on different MP modes. And all should be bot-compatible, for those with nasty net connections. ;)

Vagabond
12-14-2001, 05:06 PM
One idea for a MP gameplay mode, which may have a good chance of making it into JKII, is the Arena-style mode that was in Rune - Halls of Valhalla. It can either be one on one, or team versus team, and how it works is that one group battles the other until only one team is left standing, and the victors then receive one point and are completely healed up again. Then the next person or team in line is transported into the arena and the game continues. Spectators who are waiting for the next match can not directly interfer with the match, although some maps have levers in the spectator area that control traps in the arena area - this part is especially fun for the unwitting combatant.

This type of gameplay would be very fun for JKII.

StormHammer
12-14-2001, 05:47 PM
Having (briefly) played some online arena levels of RUNE, I agree with you Vag. Such a mode would work well with JKII. :)

I'd also still like to see someone do something with that Star Wars chess game...have a level laid out in concentric circles checkered black and white...and fight for each square. Not sure exactly how you'd score something like that, but it might be fun.

A Jedi Assault course is another idea...kind of Deathrace 2000 on foot, where you battle your way to the finish line through a series of obstacles requiring use of the Force, and tackling lots of enemies. It could even be team-based, with one team trying to prevent the other from reaching the finish line.

I'd still also like to see some kind of team assault mode, where your mission is to steal something from a base, and reach the evac point with the item intact.

There's just so much scope for this game. :cool:

Ari-Ben Kenobi
12-14-2001, 10:29 PM
Well,

I would love a class system, I don't know about you, but there is something wrong with a jedi with a lightsabre going against someone with a supergun and force powers, it isn't balanced. What makes a jedi special is his lightsabre and his EXCLUSIVE use of the force, if people wanna play with guns, fine, but don't ruin the game by letting gunners be jedi-with laser cannons.


Ari-Ben

digl
12-14-2001, 10:49 PM
If there is a playing mode similar to RtCW class playing, and you can easily change classes, only Jedi sohuld have force powers
But I think in class DM, like in MotS everyone should have force powers, but of course gunners should be more limited
And Jedi could also use weapons