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View Full Version : What should there absolutely be in JK2?


Lord Chief
12-08-2001, 09:35 AM
What feature should there absolutely be in the upcoming JK2? Should there be an emphasis on good graphics or should they focus more on creating an AI that finally knocks Half-Life of its 1st place.

I for one hope they create some interesting weapons with better useful secondary firemodes than there were in JK (the bowcaster was allmost useless for example) and a good AI.

Allthough good graphics would be nice, it is the least of my concerns. Elite Force has proven that good graphics do not make a good game. The AI in EF was quite bad indeed. Well I did my say, just let me hear opinions :)

Myxale
12-08-2001, 09:43 AM
Well at first i want to see a very good sequel as a feature :D

But you've right so amazing AI ( in sabre fihgt ) i want to see.
not an laft and right Sabre swinger like Jerec....( boared)

A cool and heavy atmosphere!!!

Ya know...Katarn's ...journey has just begun...:atat:

GonkH8er
12-08-2001, 10:47 AM
they were borgs, what can you expect.....


but im pretty confident the ai in jk2 will be on par with the best we've seen to date

SlowbieOne
12-08-2001, 12:34 PM
One thing I thought was very unique to JK was how there was a bit of momentum when you move.

For some reason it really made it feel like I was in control of my guy much more than other FPS's.

Darth Simpson
12-08-2001, 12:41 PM
Elite Force has proven that good graphics do not make a good game.

I enjoyed Elite Force, it was a great game. Your team-mate AI was impressive compared to other games, but the enemy AI was lacking, that I can agree with. Hopefully that will be fixed in JKII.

darthfergie
12-08-2001, 12:56 PM
Well a really must have...would be radar:D and a good one at that. Some games I've seen may have radars...but they don't show walls or enemies or anything...just a dot up at the top and a dot in the center for you...

They should at least have quality AI like in Ghost Recon (some of the best AI I've ever seen)

Lion Heart
12-08-2001, 01:29 PM
Something that adds replay value. I cant think of what it is yet.

Agen
12-08-2001, 01:38 PM
Something that adds replay value. I cant think of what it is yet.
Fun, Enjoyment, naughty stuff (aka girls' locker room, dammit we're in space what about mara or jan :D )

Lion Heart
12-08-2001, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Agen_Terminator

naughty stuff (aka girls' locker room, dammit we're in space what about mara or jan :D )


That's the stuff. ;)

Vagabond
12-08-2001, 02:04 PM
Buildings. Buildings would be nice.

Sounds Risky
12-08-2001, 04:58 PM
How about cities populated (and actually populated, not just 5 people) by different species, never really got that in JK. Also, more than 3 types of aliens would be good.

StephenG
12-08-2001, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by GonkH8er
they were borgs, what can you expect.....


the borg AI was good, just like the movies. the guys thay were not the borg ***ed, the AI was funny.

Originally posted by Darth Simpson
I enjoyed Elite Force, it was a great game. Your team-mate AI was impressive compared to other games, but the enemy AI was lacking, that I can agree with. Hopefully that will be fixed in JKII.

the team AI was crap, there weapons were set on "wart removal", "dont kill the fly" setting or something like that. i felt like i was doing all the work...all they did was talk bah bah bah. it got annoying here them saying "how many are there" 6 millions times.

Agen
12-08-2001, 05:36 PM
the team AI was crap, there weapons were set on "wart removal", "dont kill the fly" setting or something like that. i felt like i was doing all the work...all they did was talk bah bah bah. it got annoying here them saying "how many are there" 6 millions times.

Lol hope ur taking this in Raven!

ed_silvergun
12-08-2001, 05:59 PM
Team AI was not crap in Elite Force, I was quite impressed by pathfinding abilities in particular. My team-mates never got lost, and always got on and off elevators with me at the right time. This alone is impressive, there are so many games where AI controlled team-mates just wander off and get lost.

Sure, their weapons were not very powerful, but this was for a reason. The game would be pretty boring if you could play through it with your team-mates doing all the work. You're right though, that your team-mates were at times a little too weak, and I too would like to see NPC allies in JK II a bit more potent than those in EF.

StephenG
12-08-2001, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by ed_silvergun
Sure, their weapons were not very powerful, but this was for a reason. The game would be pretty boring if you could play through it with your team-mates doing all the work. You're right though, that your team-mates were at times a little too weak, and I too would like to see NPC allies in JK II a bit more potent than those in EF.

okay, so there are good points in the team AI like u said about not getting lost etc. i dont want the team AI weapons to be so powerful that they do all the work just enough for u to stop and think for a sec. The Barney guy from Half-life could kill those Elite Force guy in a few sec with his pistol but it would take forever for an Elite Force guy to kill a Barney with there "wort removal" phaser :)


btw...no offence Raven. It's just want a reckon.

Kurgan
12-08-2001, 08:05 PM
Three things:

1) General open-endedness and lots of interactivity.

I'd like to see areas where there is more than one "right way" to accomplish the task or goal. I'd like to see cool secret areas and stuff that you can do that might not be obvious at first. Also I like messing around sometimes(ie: not necessarily trying to win, but goofing around, like annoying my ai buddies or starting a fight with the wrong side). I think that if you kill all your teammates (in SP, I agree that having a team damage OFF option in MP is a must), then you should just not be able to finish the level, it shouldn't "stop" you if you decide to do that. Like using Shogo:MAD as an example.

2) Editing.

We've been up and down this street before, but I think that we need definate official confirmation that we, the users, will be allowed to create mods for the game (using tools that will be provided, already exist, or help developing such tools) and release them for free download by other users. It's not whether editing will be possible that is the question, but whether it will be allowed, and/or encouraged. Let's hope so!

3) Variety is the spice of gaming.

LOTS of options. I mean specifically in multiplayer. Lots of modes of play, variables servers can mess with, features, skins, maps, inidividual customizations to play style, classes, weapons, taunts, force (including Dark and Light) etc. The more features, the more potential for fun, since it will take a lot longer to go through all the options. Go crazy with the options I say. And let us tweak the controls and individual settings for our hardware for our control preferences in both MP and SP. I don't know if having scripts for everything is a good idea (didn't Half Life leave them out?) maybe a toggle.. pure server option is a must as well (to prevent MP cheating). Don't forget joystick and five button mouse (w/ wheel) support!


I'd also wish for Coop (multiplayer completion of single player campaign) but they've already confirmed that that's axed. Well at least we'll have bots... maybe somebody can code some coop missions after the game comes out.

Kurgan

digl
12-08-2001, 08:56 PM
Im really interested in MP, so pints Nš 2 and 3 are very important to me
When will they officially pronnounce about editing? We have been discussing this for years

I hope there will be more than the announced mp modes, DM, team DM and CTF.

KISS Army said in another thread "Jedi Outcast multiplayer is advanced above and beyond what was done in Q3 or Elite Force"

I want more details of this!
how is EF mp? any interesting playing modes?

psycoglass
12-09-2001, 03:22 AM
I just finished NO One Lives Forever and Loved it one of the things I loved about it was the converstaions the enemy's had where I could listen in on them. One time I was around the corner and was listening to these two guys talk. One of the men was talking about his wife and kids.So when I got up to shoot him I roze for a second thinking about this guys wife and kids and what was going to happen to them after I shot this guy.Well after a few shots rom him I of course shot him in the head but I felt deeply sorry for him, it was a weird feeling especially since it was just a computer game.

The other thing I think shouls be put In JK2 is ,say your going through a building and there are doors you can open to other people's roomsand go throught there personal stufffind out info about a total stranger that has nothing to do with the game.

digl
12-09-2001, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by psycoglass
The other thing I think shouls be put In JK2 is ,say your going through a building and there are doors you can open to other people's roomsand go throught there personal stufffind out info about a total stranger that has nothing to do with the game.

This sounds goods
I remember in JK, you went through nar shadda and only saw bounty hunters chasing you, and generally in most FPS cities dont look like cities because the games are too linear, and you cant see the city, only the streets and buildings you should go through. Of course Its impossible to build entire cities, but there should be more places to explore besides te required ones

JR2000Z
12-09-2001, 03:52 PM
I kinda enjoyed the gas mask and snow boots from the original Dark Forces.

It would be interesting to see them again.

Frosty_V2.1
12-09-2001, 11:42 PM
I agree with Kurgan, especially about multiple pathways/ways to finish missions in SP.
Elaborating on AI, how about AI where say, STs actually work together and cover each other, use "overwatch" on retreat and lay down surppresing fire, individual AI sounds great already but what about some teamwork.(This has been talked about before hasn't it?:o )

SSH83
12-10-2001, 02:10 AM
I'd say they should first focus more on SP:
1. make good AI, which so far seems to be true
2. make lightsaber more customizable and useful than before
3. the story, the interaction, and to make players feel like they are IN the game, not just watching it.

I those Half-Life more or less had # 1 and 3, and if JK2 can have those AND #2, JK2 will easily jump into the 1st place on all the "greatest game of all time" lists, like Half-Life did and Jedi-Knight did before it.

Redwing
12-10-2001, 05:10 AM
Here's my "wish list" ;)

1) Better AI. Make it feel like reality. Enemies should be able to communicate. You should hear alarms going off, squads coming after you. They should be intelligent enough to do anything you can do (within their abilities) like open doors, etc.

2) More races. BIGGER CITIES with FAR more inhabitants. I'd die to walk through a crowd of aliens like in the movies. And I mean a CROWD. And don't dare forget the wildlife! :D

3) Arrange the cities more realistically. Example: Mos Espa in the Phantom Menace game. While rather sparsely populated, the city layout was absolutely fantastic. You followed HAD to learn the street signs, remember spots like in the real world, to find your way, or you'd be hopelessly lost. It was totally AWESOME. In JK, the nearest thing to that was Baron's Hed, and that was even smaller.

In a word, linear SUCKS.

4) Good weapons. Manual sequence charges from MotS. Rail det and toned down (;)) concussion rifle. Thermal detonators---the REAL thing, not the useless balls in JK!!! Think the TPM game. And vary the weapons! Example: Stormtrooper rifle. The one in JK was utter *fill in the blank* The MotS one was better due to the scope, but still: Who wouldn't love to actually change the setting on one? You know, actually "set blasters on full." Or set it all the way back to stun setting! That would be totally awesome, especially added on to a scope. :D

Oh, and carb gun=lame. :rolleyes:

5) More control over Force power. (Vague, yes I know. :D )

6) PLEASE, LET US EDIT!!!

7) Graphics=Not as important. I can already tell they're far above my standards anyway. :)

8) A better lightsaber. Your saber should block or be able to be blocked while swinging. One of the WORST things about JK is slicing your opponent through over and over again and nothing happens except him "taking damage". :rolleyes: Did Maul "take damage"? No! He was sliced in half. If you must have shields, the shields should block the saber. Saber fighting AI or MP should be based on how on earth do you swing the right way or time to get past the opponent's blade, NOT how many times you whack him before his health gets used up. In other words, skill should count, not health. In the movies, they didn't get "health".



Anyways, there's my 8 cents. Can anyone tell me if some of the things I listed will or won't included in JK2?

Redwing
12-10-2001, 05:39 AM
One other thing...about Force powers...physical ability force powers should NOT be decorated with sound effects. For example, Force push makes a noise in the movies. Force jump, pull, sight, etc do NOT.

Sound effects should be limited to telekinesis.

IronJedi Kaga
12-10-2001, 01:52 PM
Here's my wish list:

1) Better saber combat! It was fun for awhile in the original but with only two moves it got boring.

2) Bring back CTF. With the q3 multiplayer code, maps like nar shadaa would be great.

3)Force throw with interactive environments. So that it is more useful than in the first jk.

4)Force push that works on more than players. Ex. Someone throws a thermal detonator at you, you lock onto it with force push and send it right back at them.

5) Improved grip. Dont let people rapid grip , aka press grip over and over again and get full damage for each press. Grip should be broken if the target leaves the players line of sight. Ex a high force jump would break the grip if somone didnt keep you in sight.

6) Nice large multiplayer maps.

7)Large, interactive singleplayer environments. It'll be tough, but I expect the levels at least equal to those i the orignal jk.

Thats it for now.

Kettch
12-10-2001, 01:52 PM
Jedi Robes and Hoods should be in the game whose can be taken on or off by will (like in AOTL MOD for MotS). I also think they should have the ability to move when the air is blowing around, or when the player is running jumping, doing saber moves etc. I mean they should behave like real clothes do (like in Max Payne) :jawa

DeathBoLT
12-10-2001, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by IronJedi Kaga


5) Improved grip. Dont let people rapid grip , aka press grip over and over again and get full damage for each press. Grip should be broken if the target leaves the players line of sight. Ex a high force jump would break the grip if somone didnt keep you in sight.
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Supergrip, which is what you're refering to, was a flaw in JK that probably won't transfer over to JO..

and as far as losing grip when you lose line of sight... you already do.. if it didn't work, that was because of lag, which shouldn't be a significant problem in JO.

Agen
12-10-2001, 05:59 PM
Will Grip even make it into jk2? i haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

digl
12-10-2001, 06:19 PM
3.06 Will I be able to use Force powers?
Yes. Confirmed Force powers include: Force Jump, Force Push, Confuse, Force Heal, Force Speed, Force Lightning, Force Choke and Force Pull. Kyle will also be able to use the force to throw his lightsaber and exercise varying degrees of control over it while it's airborne.

Lord_FinnSon
12-16-2001, 05:44 PM
Jedi Robes and Hoods should be in the game whose can be taken on or off by will (like in AOTL MOD for MotS).
Yeah, they would be awesome in the middle of action, but are more like something that only Old Republic's Jedi wear; good idea, especially if Raven makes models of Qui-Gon, Mace Windu, Obi-Wan or perhaps Maul for multiplayer. I would definitely want to see Kyle wearing some kind of Jedi wardrobe, which would draw inspiration from traditional Jedi clothes(at least vest and sash, perhaps with jumpsuit underneath them like Luke had in RotJ). They should represent his "gray status", because he walks the path between light and dark unlike in MotS, where he was much more closer to the dark side(symbolically black, military style clothes, reminding the ones that Luke had in RotJ). :D

SlowbieOne
12-16-2001, 06:59 PM
Will Grip even make it into jk2? i haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

I'm almost positive it has already beed decided that Force Choke(Grip) will be in JK2.

JR2000Z
12-17-2001, 04:50 PM
Im not sure if its a good idea or not, but maybe a couple stealth areas like in Metel Gear Solid.

Luke Skywalker
12-17-2001, 05:59 PM
I think there should be an even balance between graphics and AI because if there is an emphais on graphics the AI will suck and the game will not be replayable. And if there is an emphasis on the graphics the AI the graphics will suck and the difficulty level would sky rocket.

digl
12-17-2001, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by SlowbieOne


I'm almost positive it has already beed decided that Force Choke(Grip) will be in JK2.
Check above my quote from the official FAQ

I think the 2nd time you mean if they concenrate in AI

Anyway I dont agree with you Luke
Graphics and AI programming are made by completly different people, Its not that the entire team will work only on the AI or only on graphics

Im positive both things will be good