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Lucky
12-10-2001, 01:59 AM
this was a huge aspect of JK. It took a lot of skill to run fast in that game, and everyone moved at different speeds according to their style.

Just about no other game has that centripetal force factor, where u accelerate when you turn.

Also that old school strafe running was tight.

These things are so unique to JK, it'd be a shame not to incorporate them somehow into its sequel. Its just one of those things that would keep the game true to the DF series and set it apart from other games.

Who's with me on this one?



Lucky

SSH83
12-10-2001, 02:18 AM
Hm... first of all, it's kind of unclear what you were refering to by "running speed" and "skills." Did u mean the ability to manuver without killing yourself while running at 4-star force speed? Or do you mean strafing+forward to run faster than just pressing forward? Or do u mean both?
I'm with you either way. Tho I think the strafe+forward thing will not be in JK2 simply cuz it didn't exist in Q3, and there isn't really any reason for Raven Soft to want to add it in. As for the second, I think force speed will exist, cuz it's like the "Long Swords, Long Bows, Daggers, etc" in RPG games, basic stuff that always exists. :)

ReAcToR
12-10-2001, 03:14 AM
I'm with Lucky. Force Speed was great in JK and anyone who says otherwise is smoking crack.

Millions o' Monkeys
12-10-2001, 04:45 AM
good point lucky.
it would be a real shame not to have te advantage over newbies who didnt know that strafe+forward made u go faster...nah just kidding

Oh BTW im with you on this

Lucky
12-10-2001, 01:12 PM
No, im not talking about force speed. I'm talking about the centripetal force value thats attributed to every object in JK, its what makes item spin when they're just sitting there.

If you strafe run and apply gentle turns to your path you run significantly faster, if you apply a quick turn you accelerate very fast.

This is the the principle behind the saber style most folks refer to as 'mouse warp', but everyone who knows their salt either does it naturally or has learned to curve their movements just right so that they move at the optimal rate.

It also allows for the 'double jump' applying an extremely quick turn and a jump and using the acceleration from the turn to propel u thru the air at a speed roughly equal to 1 and a half times that of a normal strafe run jump.

Its one of JK's most interesting aspects. Tribes had skiing, ut has dodging, JK has centripetal force which is much more adaptative. I know its prolly not possible to include it in the game at this point, but its worth mentioning just in case the Raven folks hadn't noticed it when they were playing JK.


Lucky

StephenG
12-10-2001, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Lucky

"...If you strafe run and apply gentle turns to your path you run significantly faster, if you apply a quick turn you accelerate very fast."


i'm remember if you held down the forward and strafed right/left at the same time u would run faster than u would running forward.

i want u to try running forward while running to you left/right a LITTLE, u'd trip over your feet ...or start up JK and trying holding down the forward and strafed right left in Jk 1 (no force is needed). it doesn't like right.
hope they dont put this in JO. i dont think they will cause it's the quake 3 engine and it hasn't be done b4 in Q3 b4.

second time editing. I forgot to say... *off topic*

"we must move forward not backward or forward but sidewards"

DeathBoLT
12-10-2001, 05:19 PM
i think centripetal force was what Rune was lacking... I felt like I had so little control in Rune over sword fighting.. couldn't quite come up with the right words to describe what Rune lacked, but lucky has the right idea. :)

i certainly hope Raven keeps this in mind when touching up on movement, etc. in JO.. :)

acdcfanbill
12-11-2001, 04:15 AM
well i havent played QIII, so im not exactly sure what you mean by Tho I think the strafe+forward thing will not be in JK2 simply cuz it didn't exist in Q3 so you mean that strafe+foward doesnt work in Q3, what happend when you pressed them both, you went foward, or straifed, or did you just move at normal speed...

Jerry1978
12-11-2001, 06:10 AM
hate to tell ya, but that isn't centripetal force.

Wacky_Baccy
12-11-2001, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by Jerry1978
hate to tell ya, but that isn't centripetal force.

Finally! I was waiting for someone to offer themselves up as the sacrificial ewok..... erm...lamb, yes, lamb. ;)

Centripetal is the precise opposite of centrifugal, which is a damn sight closer to what you're describing.

I'm cruel. So sue my manager. :p

j/k

W_B

JK_Morovski
12-11-2001, 06:53 AM
i certainly do think the whole idea of shifting momentum in JK was a good one, and one that is missed whenever u play another game.

but i would guess it is unlikely that the Q3 Physics engine will be altered to much :/

StephenG
12-11-2001, 11:17 AM
i dont mind strafting just as long as u the starfe speed isn't as fast as running forward speed. in JK it was u ran faster forward+strafe.

Lucky
12-12-2001, 03:37 AM
centripetal force=force exerted tangenital to an object pivoting in a circular motion around a fixed point.

ie, a tether ball, when u hit it, it swings around the poll, if you were to cut the rope it would fly off on a line tangent to the circle it was describing.

This was a factor in JK that most people didn't even realize was present, tho most folks made use of it. Its described in gen_move.cog fairly succinctly.

Basically everything designated as an object in JK was assigned a centripetal force factor and spun accordingly. When you turned fast it exuded force tangent to the circle u described and u accelerated.

This allowed you to move faster by either gradually turning while running in a straight line, or pulling an extremely quick 180 degree turn and rocketing in the opposite direction faster than you could normally go, even with strafe.

It's very subtle, but its really apparent when yer using force speed or trying to jump across the pool in oasis in one splash.

People made very good use of it in sabers and this is why you'll hear 'elite' players making comments about people's speed. ie, "that guy is really slow" or "she's really fast".

Everyone was able to move at different speeds with this very simple physical characteristic.

Strafe running is just a remnant of oldschool 3d shooters, its the same with all of em.

Centripetal force is unique to JK and JK alone. I'd like to see it represented in the movement of JK2 just cause it is so unique and gives folks supreme flexibility in their movement speed. It also allows for interesting 'moves' or tricks like hoping across the pool in oasis in one splash, double jumping in bgj, or running past a mine fast enough that the splash won't catch you.

And stephen, try jumping off a 50 foot drop off and then putting a box of bandaids on yer face. Thats not gonna work out too well either. Its just a game bro. Making the gameplay fun is much more important than realism. Lookit ww2 online. Have to hit 8 buttons just to reload yer damn gun.

DB: I know it man. Its the same with every other game outside o JK, they just don't *feel* right. Even more reason to put this in, if it at least *feels* like JK, ill play it.


Lucky

Lucky
12-13-2001, 05:41 PM
I just realized this was in the game because the JK engine was basically the xwingvtie fighter engine with different modules.

In 0 gravity that physics characteristic makes a lot of sense.

Hope some ole ken or chan reads this =P


Lucky

Agen
12-13-2001, 06:29 PM
In JK they pretty much had plan for ages then develop. They didn't realise until before level designing that the strafe+run worked in jk aswel! Lec were gonna get rid of it but then they decided it would be pretty neat that's how it got there. if lec can remember the success it had they'll order raven ti stick it in.

Lucky
12-13-2001, 08:22 PM
lol, strafe run was common in all old 3d shooters. the centripetal force thing was unique to JK tho.

TrUeFoRcE
12-13-2001, 09:05 PM
i agree this should be included in jk2, also i think that wall and roof damage should be optional, took me a while when i first started playing to get used to the speed and not kill myself from a force jump missed landing or running face first into a wall :rolleyes: , jedi is still one of the fastest games out there, keeps people always on there feet, and with force seing and map theres no campers practically, which makes it a great game

Master Yoda
12-13-2001, 09:52 PM
I agree they need to add that in. I would make it seem more like JK, and not just a new game with JK as the title.

Lucky
12-14-2001, 12:48 AM
Word! I'm glad someone actually agree's with me. Rock on.

DeathBoLT
12-14-2001, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by TrUeFoRcE
i agree this should be included in jk2, also i think that wall and roof damage should be optional, took me a while when i first started playing to get used to the speed and not kill myself from a force jump missed landing or running face first into a wall

but thats all part of the fun :P

ed_silvergun
12-14-2001, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by Lucky
centripetal force=force exerted tangenital to an object pivoting in a circular motion around a fixed point.

Tan-genital? Lol! I think you mean tan-gential... ;)

Lucky
12-15-2001, 12:13 PM
LMAO, yes looks as tho I made a mistake, thats what posting late at night will getcha.

I actually looked up the word tangenital just for kicks and found a link to an activist group for transexuals. LOL.

ty for pointing that out.


Lucky

DeathBoLT
12-19-2001, 07:23 AM
bringing up for someone to see...

toms
12-19-2001, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Master Yoda
I agree they need to add that in. I would make it seem more like JK, and not just a new game with JK as the title.

don't you mean "It would make it seem more like JK, and not just a old game with JK as the title." ?

maybe i am getting FPS overload, or maybe they have just "perfected" FPS games so no one varies the formula anymore, but all the FPS games I have played recently have all played a bit to similar to be truely exciting. They all seem too much like mods, rather than fully fledged games. (EF="star trek Mod", NOLF="Bond Mod", etc...) Maybe it is because they all use the same engines, therefore all kind of have the same graphics, physics, controls, responses etc...

JK had a visibly diferent FOV that made stuff look samller and further away (lending to the "big levels" impression) and a "feelably" different control/movement system.

For that reason alone i hope they include the cp force, just to make the game feel a bit different, and not just like a starwars Q3 mod.

Lucky
12-20-2001, 03:27 PM
its just one of the things that makes JK incredibly unique. I dunno, mebe its cause im addicted to JK and don't want to have to unlearn the movement system because I enjoy it so much.

Mebe I'm bein a lil greedy with my request, I dunno.

What do you guys think of the plausibility of Raven developers actually noticing this thread and making adjustments to the game to accomodate it?

This late in the game I think that'd be a pretty fat chance, but it makes u wonder how much good yer doing by making suggestions at this point. I know its every gaming geeks dream to get a developer to grant you a wish, but thats really unrealistic. So while I post about somthing that I really care about, I realize its just not gonna make it into the game, and that it prolly won't even get read.

Hum, this is a weird mood this incredible hangover has put me into, lmao.


Lucky

Agen
12-20-2001, 03:45 PM
It sounds liek ur asknig them are they gonna put it in.

StormHammer
12-20-2001, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by Lucky
This late in the game I think that'd be a pretty fat chance, but it makes u wonder how much good yer doing by making suggestions at this point. I know its every gaming geeks dream to get a developer to grant you a wish, but thats really unrealistic. So while I post about somthing that I really care about, I realize its just not gonna make it into the game, and that it prolly won't even get read.

I wouldn't discount the validity of any suggestion or idea, even at this stage of development. Sure, they don't have to take on board what everyone says, and a lot of good ideas probably won't appear in the finished game. However, there is always the chance of an enhancement patch, expansion pack, or even a full-blown sequel at a later date. Also, don't forget that these forums are read by a lot of people in the mod community, who will probably be sucking up ideas like sponges to make some of the stuff we would like to see a reality.

So I wouldn't lose heart. This place is a melting pot of ideas, and maybe some good will eventually come of it. ;)