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DarthLocutus
12-11-2001, 09:28 AM
Raven,

Will there be an option as a host of a multiplayer game; that allows you to permit all skins and models that any players that join your game are using, be downloaded automatically by all players (and uploaded back their skins)?

This would *greatly* benefit the modding community as we wouldn't need to have everyone having the skins on their hard disk beforehand. It would save *alot* of headache (especially for me as I plan to create a custom model and skin for my multiplayer character). Obviously you would have to trust the people who did this (cheating by lowering the hit zone to 1 pixel :))and it may be only for private games, but it would be a useful feature to say the least.

Was there an option like this with the quake engine they're using? Counterstrike had it for decals (spraypaint logos).

StormHammer
12-11-2001, 09:49 AM
Well, it sounds like a good idea, and would certainly allow a great deal more variety while in-game.

However, I remember when I played RUNE online not so long ago, and I joined several servers that insisted on dumping a load of stuff, including skins, maps etc., down the wire at me. Being on a 56k connection, it took forever...sometimes more than an hour...so it really took the fun out of the experience.

Yes, I know there are issues around 56k players...but unfortunately a lot of people are stuck with that speed at the moment, like me.

Set packs of skins for download elsewhere might remedy part of the problem, but people will still always want to make their own skins. Perhaps if there was a central or recognised server - maybe even jediknightii.net...where you could upload your homemade skins, it would give other players a chance to download them as they are created...so if those skins are then used on whatever server you are connected to, you at least have the majority of skins already downloaded. Downloading just a few skins isn't usually a problem...but when you have 20-30, and you know it's going to take a lot of time, the only alternative is usually to find another server to play on.

So I agree that this issue needs to be addressed, particularly for people with lower speed connections in mind. ;)

Vagabond
12-11-2001, 11:26 AM
What StormHammer said is certainly true, and brings us to the point that I'd like to make, which happens to be an issue because of what Stormy said.

When servers do allow downloads of mods, which isn't often let me tell you, and you have a high-speed connection like I do, then things work great. The thing that I have noticed, however, is that most servers prevent downloads for the simple reason that it increases everyone's ping that are playing the current game on the server.

In conclusion, while I do promote automatically downloading mods from the server, this is typically an option, and this option is usually turned off. When it is turned on, people with slower connections often suffered due to the sheer volume of mods they have to download to make it into the current game.

digl
12-11-2001, 01:00 PM
But people with slow connections can turn that option off in their own PCs, even if the server has the option on.This could work for skins
For mods and maps they should download them from another place

About the ping, thats an important issue
Maybe the server could determine when to allow downloads or not, depending on the effect downloads are having on the pings, the server could auto regulate itself

Myxale
12-11-2001, 02:08 PM
Nice Ideas....bur we still dont have a clue if there will be Modding in JKO!!!

OR?:ewok:

digl
12-11-2001, 03:08 PM
they STILL havent said anything about editing, but Im pretty sure they will allow it

Maybe they dont release editing tools (altough there is a chance they do) editing will probably be allowed anyway, if they prohibit it theyd be killing the game

ReAcToR
12-11-2001, 05:48 PM
Quake III allowed server administrators to enable or disable the downloading of skins/models, mods and maps. This has been a great asset to gaming communities for years, regardless of what type of connection that you have.

If you're on a 56k modem and the server you're attempting to join is trying to get you to download a 5mb file, simply find another server to join. Not being able to play on certain servers is a small price to pay for such a great option. This also makes it alot easier for those of us who don't have the time to scan through websites looking for maps. This also keeps people from downloading conflicting versions. How many times did you try to join that JK server where the host was playing a level with a generic name like Arena? There are dozens of maps with the same name and being able to download from the server, simply makes it easier, because you don't have to hunt for a specific version, you simply download it.

You must download the maps and mods to join that server, but you aren't normally forced to download the skins/models. Simply disable that option.

I have an idea that would take a little lag off of the server. I'm not sure if this idea is feasible, so bare with me and if it's not, feel free to let me know...

They could create a certain imbedded source code in the map files. In this code, they could direct the joiner directly to the link and he/she would be downloading off of an FTP or a mirror instead of off of the server. This would cause less lag for the server(in theory). This would cause problems though, if the FTP that hosted the file went down. So what do they do about that? Maybe they could direct the joiner to the download link like I stated above, but if the link is dead, it would automatically allow them to download from the server. This means that in most cases, the joiner would be downloading from the web/FTP and in fewer cases, the joiner would be downloading/lagging the server.

My knowledge is limited on such matters but it seems logical to me. Am I right or is there something that I'm ignorant of that prevents this? If this isn't currently possible, could it ever be possible?

StormHammer
12-11-2001, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by ReAcToR
I have an idea that would take a little lag off of the server. I'm not sure if this idea is feasible, so bare with me and if it's not, feel free to let me know...

They could create a certain imbedded source code in the map files. In this code, they could direct the joiner directly to the link and he/she would be downloading off of an FTP or a mirror instead of off of the server. This would cause less lag for the server(in theory). This would cause problems though, if the FTP that hosted the file went down. So what do they do about that? Maybe they could direct the joiner to the download link like I stated above, but if the link is dead, it would automatically allow them to download from the server. This means that in most cases, the joiner would be downloading from the web/FTP and in fewer cases, the joiner would be downloading/lagging the server.

My knowledge is limited on such matters but it seems logical to me. Am I right or is there something that I'm ignorant of that prevents this? If this isn't currently possible, could it ever be possible?

I don't know if it's possible, but it sounds like a good idea to me. ;)

I can also see your point about having to trawl different sites for skins/models/maps. I guess there is no easy solution that will suit everyone.

Unfortunately, those with a 56k connection are not going to have the best online gaming experience. I know that times have moved on, and higher bandwidth is definitely desirable...but when it's not even available in your location, it's frustrating.

It is certainly no fault of the servers, or other players...the blame lies firmly at the doors of those building the infrastructure of the net, who obviously do not consider online gaming a priority in their roll-out plans. As a result, I can see many of those with lower bandwidth connections having to replay old favourites, or at least attempt some of the work-arounds mentioned above, and dedicate X amount of hours to downloads from various FTP sites in an attempt to become compatible with certain servers, in order to play the newer crop of games.

It will rely on the willingness of those servers to cater for these gamers...they certainly don't have to. The only other alternative is to have a couple of dedicated servers available (with minimal downloads), for the 56k crowd to use without disrupting games played on low ping servers.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how things pan out. I just hope that I will be able to play online somewhere without having to wait too long for downloads, or disrupting low ping games. ;)

ReAcToR
12-11-2001, 11:15 PM
I feel the pain of all dial-upers out there. I too am on a 56k. You might even say that I have it worse than most people...

I have a 56k and connect to a router in my local city that transfers me to the major city(Louisville), which is about 35 miles south of the router. This causes me to have normal download/upload speeds but is horrible for gaming. I get 600+ ping in any game with dedicated servers, no matter how close the server is. On my old ISP, I dialed straight into Louisville and my ping was good for a 56k modem(150-280). I was recently forced to switch to my current ISP because I'm short on cash. To go back to my old ISP, I would have to pay $30 extra each month for what is known as the "area calling plan." This enables me to dial anywhere within my area code without paying long distance.

It's very discouraging being on a dial-up modem, especially for those of us who have already been told by the DSL providers near by that it will be a few more years before they are offering service in our area, even though the CO is only a few miles away. The same goes for cable.

I've had alot of fun playing JK/MotS and AvP because their netcodes were suitable for dial-upers, but it isn't looking good for me with JK2. I may have to pay that extra $30 a month so I can get decent ping, but damn money is tight and that will be rough.

Tap[RR]
12-12-2001, 12:00 AM
Errrm, well, in quake 3, the skins are optional, you see default skins if you dont have the same model/skin as the other player(s), so just leave it at that... i mean, im sure if a map or skin is very good, most will download it (of course, it being rated on a mod site, like massassi, and polycount). Also, like reactor said, if you dont have the map, and dont feel like downloading it, then move to another server. And if you want to see your buddies skin, then download it... put it in your jediknight2 base folder and enjoy.

DarthLocutus
12-12-2001, 02:33 AM
Thanks for the responses all. It is gratifying to know that people also think about these issues. We'll just have to wait and see what Raven does.

DarthLocutus
12-21-2001, 12:59 AM
I'm going to resurrect this now as Raven seems a little more open about discussing these types of comments. Perhaps I could get some developer feedback?