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1337_7r011
01-02-2002, 09:29 AM
It seems to me that practically every star wars game that has ever been released is just an inferior product designed to milk the star wars cash cow for all its worth.

Take jedi knight one - its graphics are practically wolfenstein quality, and the gameplay isn't exactly exciting...

Star wars battlegrounds is just a reskinned AOE, would have taken maybe 10 or so graphic designers a month to make....

Rogue squadron, quite small, and the stormtroopers are amzingly 2d, i guess the designers figured they'd go with 2d skins just to add some variety....

The bodgyness doesn't seem to be limited to star wars games either, the new star wars movies are suffering from it as well...

The original films had plot and substance, whereas the new films are trashy examples of computer animation, interspaced with jar jar binks speaking stupidly...

I quite like the original star wars trilogy, but all the offshoots are just trying to suck that little bit more milk from the cash cow...


anyhoo...

StephenG
01-02-2002, 09:43 AM
first off, welcome new person. i have no cookies ask stormie.

Originally posted by 1337_7r011
It seems to me that practically every star wars game that has ever been released is just an inferior product designed to milk the star wars cash cow for all its worth.
Take jedi knight one - its graphics are practically wolfenstein quality, and the gameplay isn't exactly exciting...

you have the right to your own opinion but i'm pretty sure that JK looked better than Wolf3d. i also reckon that JK ws a great game and had lots of exciting times. example, remember when after fighting Yun your on the roof and there is a tie bomber between u and path?


Originally posted by 1337_7r011
Star wars battlegrounds is just a reskinned AOE, would have taken maybe 10 or so graphic designers a month to make....

but yeah, this i agree with u 100% on this topic. only some difference in GB compared to AoK2.

1337_7r011
01-02-2002, 09:49 AM
perhaps a slight exaggeration about jediknight graphics, they weren't on a par with wolfenstein, they were probably closer to doom...

all the star wars games are rather lacking in substance, there are many many games out there with more depth, that feel more real to play. If the starwars games were not set in the starwars universe, then they probably would have sold very poorly indeed.

Darth_Lando
01-02-2002, 10:29 AM
ya, the eskimoes that would be funny! :rolleyes:

Obi Kwan
01-02-2002, 11:37 AM
I agree that the Episode one games blew entirely and that I could probably count on one hand the number of starwars games that I have enjoyed. THough, out of those games are some of my favorites of all time. Starwars fo NES,X-Wing, JK..... wow those seem dated now. But i have great confidence that JKII will renew our faith in Lucas Arts if RS2 hasnt already!

The original films had plot and substance, whereas the new films are trashy examples of computer animation, interspaced with jar jar binks speaking stupidly...

As for this, the plot of the original movies may have had more substance, but the dialogue was just as cheesy. Star Wars was never a totally serious and stern story, so some jar jar esq sillyness is to be expected!

Vagabond
01-02-2002, 12:50 PM
Since this thread seem less about JKII, and more about LucasArts in general, I'm moving this to the Swamp.

digl
01-02-2002, 12:55 PM
It seems to me that practically every star wars game that has ever been released is just an inferior product designed to milk the star wars cash cow for all its worth.

I wonder if you have an idea of every star wars game released
No offense, but you sound like you are pretty new to gaming
Your older example is JK, from 1997, the first SW game was made several decades ago (the arcade xwing game), and was amazing for Its time

Most older PC and console SW games had great success, both in sells and in critics
Tie Fighter is considered one of the best games of all times
Dark Forces was one of the games that changed FPSs forever, adding an intelligent story and several other elements

about graphics, doom was like DF, with 2d sprites, JK was fully 3D
I think what killed JK graphically was Q2, that was released only a few months later and had amazing graphics, making most other games out look ugly

Nob Akimoto
01-02-2002, 01:07 PM
I find it amusing that someone with a nickname of "leet troll" is being taken seriously...

Agen
01-02-2002, 02:08 PM
What about....... hmmm. u play one of the games??????.... u don't need to thank me for the advice. ;)

[TE]BiocYte[OO]
01-02-2002, 05:29 PM
Troll.....

For it's time JK was awesome.....the graphics were ok but the gameplay was awesome... to say that all Lucas Arts games are crap is very very lame and shows hat you have played very few.

StormHammer
01-02-2002, 06:50 PM
Welcome to the forums, 1337_7r011 and BiocYte. Hope you both enjoy your stay. ;)

*hands each a chocolate Jedi Medallion*

There you go. ;)

Originally posted by 1337_7r011
It seems to me that practically every star wars game that has ever been released is just an inferior product designed to milk the star wars cash cow for all its worth.

Of course games are made to make money...and Star Wars merchandise was always designed to milk the cash cow for all it was worth. I can still remember all of the stuff that came out around the time the original movie was released...you could get almost anything with an SW logo on it somewhere. Such is the nature of enterprise...and boy, did it pay off. ;)

There are very few developers who make games just from the goodness of their heart (and those who do are usually learning the ropes). I disagree that all of the Star Wars games have been inferior.

Take jedi knight one - its graphics are practically wolfenstein quality, and the gameplay isn't exactly exciting...

Jedi Knight is probably one of the most exciting FPS games I have ever played, and broke some new ground while introducing gaming elements not found in any other FPS anywhere (lightsabers, Force Powers etc.). It's blend of cohesive story, great level design, choice of gameplay, mixture of 1st and 3rd person perspectives, RPG type elements (you decide how your character progresses in Force skills), and the overall Star Wars feel made it a fantastic gaming experience that is borne out by it's sheer longevity. After 5 years it is still played...and still available to purchase because of it's popularity. There are few other titles that have managed to garner sustained interest from a widespread gaming community.

Star wars battlegrounds is just a reskinned AOE, would have taken maybe 10 or so graphic designers a month to make....

Can't really comment much on that one. I've only played the demo, and I'm told it's not representative of the full game. I'm new to the RTS genre (never bothered with it before), but SWGB picqued my interest...and now I've played several other RTS demos, including AOEII, which I liked. Going by your statement, then, it would appear I will probably like SWGB (which is now on my Wanted list).

I've never played Rogue Squadron...I'm not really a fan of any space shoot-em-ups etc. Except, that old Xwing arcade game digl mentioned brings back fond memories. I think I was one of the first to try out that cool-looking ****pit arcade game machine...I know I must have blown all my pocket money on it...and some of my Student grant when I discovered one buried in a Student's Union... :D

The bodgyness doesn't seem to be limited to star wars games either, the new star wars movies are suffering from it as well...The original films had plot and substance, whereas the new films are trashy examples of computer animation, interspaced with jar jar binks speaking stupidly...I quite like the original star wars trilogy, but all the offshoots are just trying to suck that little bit more milk from the cash cow...


I can't really argue with that. TPM was not my favourite SW movie by a long shot, although it did have some redeeming features. I felt it was a bit of a carbon-copy of ROTJ, which was also not my favourite in the series. As for milking the cash cow...let's be fair. Star Wars fans around the globe have been badgering Lucas for 20 years to make the prequels (and rumoured sequels), so I think it had to happen sooner or later. Sure, they are now going to throw out all the Episode I-III merchandise...just like they did with the original trilogy. So what? It's a great franchise, makes a ton of money...and if people didn't like or buy the stuff, it wouldn't sell.

I hope Lucas makes a better Episode II and Episode III...but I won't criticise him for starting the ball rolling on a literal phenomenon of the 20th Century. Without Star Wars, would there ever have been an Alien, a Terminator, Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek movies, Blade Runner, Star Trek TNG... Star Wars made a lot of directors and producers sit up and take notice, and revise their thinking about what they were producing.

Now the technology is there to support the graphical vision... The only problem Lucas must face now is not sacrificing the story for the visual impact...but that is a very common complaint of almost every film coming out of Hollywood these days...

Sounds Risky
01-02-2002, 07:10 PM
It seems (to me at least) that most Star Wars fans aren't really Star Wars fans, but ANH and ESB fans. This stuff (or maybe I should say fluff) isn't Citizen Kane people, it's just a silly little space opera.

[TE]BiocYte[OO]
01-02-2002, 07:21 PM
About the movies.....

Having seen SW maybe 20 times in my lifetime....lol I must say that the acting and the story are not great. Bad acting coupled with a bad script = Star Wars. Now it was new and hey most of us were maybe 12 or 13 when it came out so it was GREAT. TPM seems to have gathered good actors and also given them a bad script. The story is there, it is not explored enough. Now since granted most of the actors were of top caliber....could it be that Lucas is just a bad story teller and director??

Don't get me wrong I enjoyed TPM but i was expecting more and I think there is where the problem lies. People expect more from Lucas and Lucas Arts.

JK2 is being made by Raven Software, rest assured that this game will be good.
:bdroid2:

-------------------------
[TE]BiocYte[OO]
http://www.theobsidianorder.com

[TE]BiocYte[OO]
01-02-2002, 07:28 PM
And Stormhammer, thanx for the Chocolate!

Lord_FinnSon
01-02-2002, 08:14 PM
Just play through whole X-Wing series(Tie Fighter was my personal favorite), original Dark Forces(it's still quite good even with outdated graphics and not fully supported mouse controls as a nostalgic FPS), try again JK(huge levels, baby!) and after that check what MotS might give you. After all this, tell me again, if you still think that you didn't get something for your money. :D As a sidenote, I have personally nothing againts TPM, because it gave me just what I wanted: lightsaber duels, awesome visual effects, John Williams' music and widened the galaxy that first movies only partially introduced to us; it is populated with so many species, which Gungans and Ewoks are only small part of, but prove to us that there can also be clumsy and childlike characters in addition to more serious characters like The Jedi. These movies should only be judged after seeing whole saga as one twelve hour movie; TPM is only one episode of this modern myth, which is NOT pure scifi, but rather fantasy/fairy tale with mystical proportions. So, don't take it too seriously, but wait what George have for us(I'm quite sure there are still big surprises waiting for us) and don't watch these new movies too much from original Trilogy's point of view. ;)

1337_7r011
01-02-2002, 11:28 PM
i have played some of the x wing series from the mid 90s (95?, 94?) and although it was reasonable, i can't really say that it was anything special. It was a while back that i played them, but iirc they all used the same graphics engine, so they were all pretty much exactly the same. They were also not much better than any of the other flightsim style games around back then.

as to what digl said about jedi knight being fully 3d, who cares, it it still looks crap.

digl
01-02-2002, 11:33 PM
I said that because you compared it with doom
sure It looks crap, but It didnt look crap

and what games do you like?

Nob Akimoto
01-03-2002, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by 1337_7r011
i have played some of the x wing series from the mid 90s (95?, 94?) and although it was reasonable, i can't really say that it was anything special. It was a while back that i played them, but iirc they all used the same graphics engine, so they were all pretty much exactly the same. They were also not much better than any of the other flightsim style games around back then.

Partially accurate.

All the X-wing games after TIE Fighter used updates to that engine.(Up to and including XWA.)

However, the X-wing series were among the first true "3D" games of their genre.

While Wing Commander was still cutting teeth with sprites, X-wing(released in 1993 I believe)

And saying they're exactly the same is a rather simple and childish thing to say.

But oh well.

Some people understand classics, others just see what they spawn then flame the originators.

duder
01-03-2002, 10:53 AM
I wouldnt say they were all crap, but considering the huge scope of the Star Wars universe it is hard to find reasons why there arent any absolute classic star wars computer games.

Perhaps you are right, maybe it is because they want to milk the franchise for all they can :(

digl
01-03-2002, 11:11 AM
Actually Tie Fighter is an absolute classic
And Jedi Knight will be a classic soon, I dont think there are too many games that are still played online so much after several years, and even without dedicated servers

Frosty_V2.1
01-03-2002, 09:59 PM
Also to be noted is that the X-Wing/Tie-Fighter games were Critically acclaimed by most reviewers and the gaming community and later re-released collectors editions. Those games actually represented(correct me if I'm wrong)the best games of that genre in that era.
Jedi Knight, multiaward winning and considered game of the year by some reviewers I think, Gspot readers choice game of the year runner up(missed by 1%), graphicly, i agree crap especially cos of Q2, but lotsa fun to play.
There were some other good and crap SW games but i btween they mad good non-SW game like MI series
Well I've rambled enough..

Fruitloop
01-04-2002, 02:52 AM
While I'm not sure all Star Wars games suck, I do believe there have been some LucasArts games that will be all time PC gaming classics in the realm of Doom or Wing Commander and that there are some SW games that, well, are better left unmentioned. But I have to mention one, I can't resist it! Force Commander was an utter joke! *puke* *gag* *suffer* *cough blood* *die* *talking corpse* I can't believe LucasArts conned me outta $40 for that POS! :eek:

Anyways, the majority of SW games are very good and solid, in my opinion. Being a former die-hard Star Wars fan, I'm obviously biased and partial to any game depicting a story in that universe, but as a PC gamer, I must say LucasArts has turned out some fantastic material. Dark Forces, TIE Fighter, and many of the other pre-97 classics all captivated me. Oh, yeah, Jedi Knight's multiplayer was fun sometimes too!

StephenG
01-04-2002, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by digl
Actually Tie Fighter is an absolute classic
And Jedi Knight will be a classic soon, I dont think there are too many games that are still played online so much after several years, and even without dedicated servers
Its amazing that so many people still play Jedi Knight multiplayer these days. Cant wait to try out Jedi Outcast multiplayer (read: i wanna multiplayer demo soon plz)

Obi Kwan
01-04-2002, 11:23 AM
If we are spreading the discussion to Lucasarts in general, I'd say there is no question that they've made some classics in the past. Grim Fandango was one of my all time favorites, mostly because of Lucasart's engaging story and plot design.

digl
01-04-2002, 04:34 PM
how could I forgot The secret of Monkey Island!!

thats not a SW game (altough there are tons of sw easter eggs:D)
and Its an absolute PC gaming classic
most LEC adventure games are great and critically acclaimed, but MI is just THE game

StarScrap
01-04-2002, 11:58 PM
There are, unfortunately enough, a whole slew of absolutely horrible SW games. I can't list them all, and it would be quite depressing to do so. Especially in the months after Episode I was released people seemed to think that they could sell anything SW, so they slapped down a poor game and put SW skins on it, and sold it for $50. Fortunately THAT craze seems to be well over now and we are getting back to the good games.

Ah yes, the good games. I would say that Jedi Knight is almost on par with SC (and you can still find copies of THAT marked at $20+). And I still play DF sometimes. And let us not forget X-Wing/TIE-Fighter. Yes, the classics.

It seems to me that while everyone here seems to be complaining that all the games merely focus on integrating SW into a mediocre game rather than making a good game, that without putting SW in, none of the games would have been quite so great. I agree wholeheartedly that the games should be good as well, but to me the feel of SW is of top priority. That is the point of the games. Who would turn down leading their own snowspeeders in an assault against AT-ATs? Who wouldn't want to duel a Sith Lord? It is that feel that I look for in SW games, and it is in all the games mentioned above it is there.

It is the same thing that makes the movies themselves great. Someone mentioned cheesy dialogue and bad acting (although I beg to differ with a few actors in there), but that matters little. What makes Star Wars Star Wars is the thrill as the X-Wings decend on the Death Star, the suspense at the battle of Hoth. Don't beleive me? Watch the movies again. Many people have problems with Episode I. Not true to the Trilogy, they say; only pretty graphics, they say. That may be so, I have some of the same complaints myself. But that is only nitpicking. Who can say that they had those complaints when they first saw the movie? The trailer even? If you can (though Jar Jar may be an exception), speak up. No, the feeling of Star Wars was there. There was the excitement, and there was the varried culture and technology of all the different civilizations. THAT is Star Wars.

StormHammer
01-05-2002, 09:54 AM
Welcome to the forums, StarScrap. :) Hope you enjoy your stay. Here...

*hands over a chocolate Jedi Medallion*

They're tasty.

StarScrap
01-05-2002, 02:06 PM
Hmm....they are.:) Do the Jedi do some special thing with the force to make them like this? *munchmunchmunch* You know, I almost regret messing up a Jedi Medallion. Almost.

GonkH8er
01-08-2002, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by StormHammer
Welcome to the forums, 1337_7r011 and BiocYte. Hope you both enjoy your stay. ;)

*hands each a chocolate Jedi Medallion*

There you go. ;)





dont give him the chocolate medallion. I know who this skunj bucket is. He's told me he's going to be causing trouble round here to stir me up. watch out for him :)

*snatches away jedi medallion and eats it*

Agen
01-08-2002, 03:48 PM
"Noooo!!!" *dives infront of gonk asnd steals medallion*

StormHammer
01-08-2002, 03:52 PM
Roger, roger. :)

Besides, anyone with a mean disposition auto-activates the nanobots I hid in the last consignment...so they should start chewing their insides out any time now. Mwahahahah ! :D