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Meksilon
01-08-2002, 04:39 AM
Okay, I'm not posting anymore in that other thread, I thought it'd be better to start a new one. Yes I did put some creative thought into the unusual title :).

Originally posted by Natty
How dare you say I am not a catholic? You don't even friggen know me, it's my opinion that I believe the pope should get with the programme- we're living in the year2002 now, we're not in the 17th centuary anymore. It's my opinion- so deal with it.

Did you read this passage Natty?
Matthew 5:17-19 (Jesus speaking)
[17]Do not think I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. [18]I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the last stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. [19]Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commandments will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

WHAT FRIGGING DIFFRANCE DOES IT MAKE WHAT CENTUARY WE'RE IN?!? If It was wrong THEN it is wrong NOW. It is still wrong to murder, it is still wrong to have a homosexual lover.

Catholics beleive the pope is (if you like) "God's spokesman" on earth. Apparently the pope is more important to God than anyone else.

Originally posted by Natty
Maybe I should say that God doesn't exsist? Does that make you happy? I think god is a jerk, he can kiss my arse, I had sex with satan and I'm pregnant with his child.

I can't beleive how disrespectful you are. That is THE most hypocritical statement I've ever read. It's compleatly Sataniest.

Originally posted by Natty
Sheeeeeesh, sure I've seen people talk rubbish sometimes, but you really take the cake- get over it, why should I agree with everything the pope says?

No, that would be Lupe remember? Oh yeah, well sorry for pointing out your self-contradictions.

I have refrained from writing personal attacks on anyone and I am hugely offended by your previous post. It proves to me you aren't Christian and you don't love or even care about God.

=mek=

Natty
01-08-2002, 05:30 AM
Haven't you ever heard of sarcasm? I was being sarcastic when I said I had sex with satan. I can see I obviously hit a sore spot. I don't understand why gay people should be condemed just because of who they prefer sexually.

I agree with the murdering though, that is still wrong.

If the pope is the only person God cares about then why should we worship/follow him, whatever you wanna call it? Isn't that being disrespectful to his followers, like you and me, and everyone else?When I did Religious Education in primary school and also from my parents, I was brought up to treat everyone with respect, now if what you're saying is true about about the pope being the only one god respects, that means he doesn't respect us, so why should I give him any respect? (and I believe you pulled that comment out of thin air) If people treat me with respect, I'll treat them with respect. Which is why I respect gay people, they are the same as you and me, only they choose to love/have sex with the same sex.

I am catholic, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything the religion is about, it's like politics, sure I might support Labor, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with all their policies. Also I was very offended when you said I'm not catholic, so I support gay people- why is that such a terrible thing?

Gawd how the hell do you put people on ignore on this thing?

duder
01-08-2002, 06:25 AM
Hhhhmmmmm....

Religion causes so much anger. Just from reading this thread I see that one person has put so much faith into something that they have written all homosexual people off as morally corrupt. In my opinion that is hugely ignorant. You dare to judge someone for being themselves. I'm not gay, but I have no problem with people who are (for what possible reason could I have?).

I don't place myself in any religion, I was forced to go to a Baptist church as a child, when I think back to it, the moral codes I live by arent that different. The way I choose to live my life will be the way I will be judged in death, if there is such thing as a 'judgment'. I am not worried, I have faith in myself.

I understand why you may have been upset by Natty's sarcasm, I don't like it myself, but I think her point may be that you should use your own judgment rather than placing it all in a religious scriptures, and figures. I agree.

Natty
01-08-2002, 08:16 AM
Originally posted by duder
I think her point may be that you should use your own judgment rather than placing it all in a religious scriptures, and figures. I agree.

That's exactly what I meant, I prefer to use my own judgment, rather than have someone basically tell me what I can and can't feel or think. Just because I don't agree with some aspects of religion doesn't mean I have no respect, I will only have no respect, if like I said in my previous post and that is if it is true that the only person God respects is the pope. I believe in god, and I'm catholic, deal with it

Meksilon
01-08-2002, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by Natty
Haven't you ever heard of sarcasm? I was being sarcastic when I said I had sex with satan.

You don't say? I still find your sarcastic comments offensive, and I would think most Christians would especially comming from someone who claims to be Christian.

Do you know then ten commandments? Namely: "You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name"

Originally posted by Natty
I can see I obviously hit a sore spot. I don't understand why gay people should be condemed just because of who they prefer sexually.

Because that is what God says. In fact God tells us that he has a plan for hedrosexual relationships/marrage so why bother arguing at all.

=mek=

Natty
01-08-2002, 08:30 AM
I suppose you've seen 'the man who sued god' then? By saying something like 'it was an act of god' is that misusing his name? I would think so, but I suppose in your sense of reasoning that doesn't apply

Meksilon
01-08-2002, 08:40 AM
Every time you spell God with a small G you are misusing His name. I never say things like "Oh my God" or "That was an act of God" or "Jesus Christ!" or anything else like that. I find a simple word starting with an "F" sufficient for the task.

=mek=

Natty
01-08-2002, 08:59 AM
So now you're correcting how I spell? My god you really are sad, get out and get some fresh air- how the hell do you put people on ignore here?

You still haven't answered any of my questions- makes me wonder if you have any evidence to back these claims, especially those about the pope being the only person G od has any respect for. I'm still waiting for proper evidence on it

duder
01-08-2002, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by Meksilon


Because that is what God says. In fact God tells us that he has a plan for hedrosexual relationships/marrage so why bother arguing at all.

=mek=

There is no point in arguing with you. This kind of comment is precisely the reason why I have little time for church, and religion. For people that preach about forgiveness, and caring for one another, you seem to create more social divides than most. I know this isn't everyone, but I have heard this kind of crap many times b4.

Deadmeat_X
01-08-2002, 10:09 AM
I'm not a believer, never were, never will be. I look at all the suffering religion caused, and that's reason enough for me to hate religion. Well, maybe hate is a big word, but I don't have much respect for the people who's life is all about their religion. I think it's okay to believe in a higher power, and it's okay to get together with people that believe in the same power, but if you force other people to believe the same (wich mosty religions do), you very wrong. And killing for your religion is just idiotic. People are forgetting that most of it is just made up. They take their book (Bible, Koran) too serious. I mean, if there was a god, you really think he'd get pi55ed if you spelled his name with a smell g on a monkey island-forum? He'll punish you, because you don't hate gay people? You'll go to hell if you say "JESUS!" when you're really suprised? If you honistly think that, you should go see a doctor in my opnion, cause you're afraid for something that was made up ages ago. There is no 'right' religion, there is no wrong religion. Some of the thing in the Bible make real sense, like "Thou shall not kill", but couldn't someone come up with that himself? Isn't it logical? Do you really need a book to tell you what right and whats wrong? People are supposed to get their own opinion, not just copy it from some book. If you hate gays, and have a good reason for it (for example, you have once been abused by a gay), that's okay. But hating people just cause a book tells you to hate 'em, that's just ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense. And off course, the pope is just an old man. If he's holy or anything, half of the world is, cause he does nothing but waving and reading speeches. Like a teacher.

I rest my case...

Feral
01-08-2002, 12:24 PM
**** you, Meksi. Just because you quote the bible every god-given chance doesn't mean we have to, you ignorant prick. If we're going to burn in hell, in your opinion, fine, but don't shove it in our faces; what if we don't believe in that particular version of the afterlife? Don't shove your beliefs on us, and on another point, what's up with being gay? I'm sorry, but it seeems that you are a prejudiced, hypocritical, tree-shaggin', off with the fairies, 'I'm so great because I believe in something that may not even exist', holier-than-thou, bigotist, cluster****.

I don't often swear, and I have said this about just 3 people in my almost 2 years here, and later polled to get one of them back, but I thiink you should be banned, at least from this particular division of the forums.

I do not await a response.

COJ
01-08-2002, 12:54 PM
I say...Griswold wrote the bible and god is only his imagination

Fender
01-08-2002, 01:12 PM
I'm probably gonna get my ass kicked for this, but IMO religion is a waste of time. There are all these people who think the stuff other people think, that bad, bad, bad.... I am a Markcist!

duder
01-08-2002, 02:23 PM
do you mean marxist? :D

Guybrush122
01-08-2002, 03:47 PM
ok, Mek, I have a big fat f*cking bone to pick with you. You are an ignorant, self centered, prick who is just a simple f*cking clone who doesn't think for himself and doesn't want anybody to have that privlige either. You want a dictatorship, well, f*ck you, I want an Anarchy. We all have different opinions, so if you don't like them you can f*ck off. You whine and complain "oooh, its so offensive, help me...." p*ss off you sh*t. Just because we are one religion doesn't mean we practice it...and just because you don't believe in our moral standards doesn't mean you have the right to tell us how to practice our religion or how to run our lives. You accuse us of not being faithful when I can truely see you are just afraid of not being accepted in a certain 'group' of individuals, you are trying to make us feel bad about ourselfs and trying to convince yourself that you are doing it for the greater good. Well God help me I will not tolerate ANYONE who will tell me or my friends how to run our lives...the Godesses, God, Jahova, Jesus, whoever is up there knows that people should be FREE and that we should have the right to practice any religion the way we want to, so help me if I go to hell...I'll enjoy myself believing in what I believe, so you can crawl back into your hole and you enjoy your slavery of the mind.

brief
01-08-2002, 08:04 PM
http://www.capcorphq.com/jokes/makeitstop.jpg

Kjølen
01-08-2002, 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by Me
Tough question.

-Catholic
-Beautiful
-Smart
-Kind, Generious, nice
-Slightly temperous (Must have sometime in common)
-Likes computers, PS2, Nintendo, etc.
-Good sense of humor
-Slightly sick sense of humor (*See "Slightly temperous" in the ( )'s)
-Doesn't see other boys and says 'C Ya!'
-Brave,
Slightly shy (Not like "Can't speak to ANYONE!")
-Good will power
-MUST LIKE MONKEY ISLAND!

That would be the perfect girl....*sigh....



Oh no... I started all of this...I feel so sad and guilty...:(

PS: God loves everyone. God doesn't love ANYONE more than anyone else.

Guybrush122
01-08-2002, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by Guybrush M-T


PS: God loves everyone. God doesn't love ANYONE more than anyone else.

spoken like a true wiseman :)

Kid
01-08-2002, 09:51 PM
I think Brief's post makes up my thoughts...

Whats with the mob mentality against this guy?

From what I see (unless there was something in a different topic)
he is simply contradicting the words of some with facts from the bible, he is not contradicting using his own opinions.

Granted, he should probably not be coming off nearly as strong as he is, and I completely agree that beliefs should not be forced upon somebody else.

But to have numerous people repeatedly lay into him about it, is taking it a little bit far.

I'd ask that one of the mods here do their job, and close the topic if it is causing this much controversy.

Kid
01-08-2002, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by Guybrush M-T
What happend to my post? I had it here.... Where did it go?

Its still here dude...

Kjølen
01-08-2002, 09:58 PM
Mek... I think that you need to stop refering to other people as evil. And stop accusing people who are or support gay people. Gay is not evil. It is just something someone way born with. And if they they are born with it they can't help it. And everyone can resist evil. If they can't resist being gay, it is not evil. Also, you cannot tell people if they are or are not Catholic or any other religion. Please stop. If you keep making people feel lousy, I will somehow have you banned. That is not a threat. Just asking you, please stop torturing people. I know I sound all sincere-like but I speak the truth. I started this mess in the Boyfriend/Girlfriend post. So I want to clean it up. Please stop fighting people.

Natty
01-08-2002, 10:13 PM
Guybrush? It's not your fault all this arguing about religion started, Mek started it when he started slagging off his girlfriend coz she's catholic, at least 3 or 4 posts had gone by after your comment about your perfect girl being catholic and no one had said anything. I don't mind people having their opinions about religion, but when people force his or her beliefs on me, that's when I get annoyed, I made a comment about something and Mek laid into me, accusing me of being a hypocrite and then, also not being catholic only because I support gay people and coz I think the pope needs a reality check into the 21st centuary. I may not be very religious, and my mum actually agrees with me on the pope needing to wake up and smell the roses, although mum is against gays- but she's had to deal with it coz of me having some gay friends, but she respects them for the life they have chosen to live (and I honestly don't know if you're born gay or you choose to become gay- and I don't think we'll ever know)

And it's spelt Ihovia I think? I know it begins with I not J hehehehe, all those years of watching Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade have paid off, I learned something :D

Grannen
01-08-2002, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by Natty
Guybrush? It's not your fault all this arguing about religion started, Mek started it when he started slagging off his girlfriend coz she's catholic, at least 3 or 4 posts had gone by after your comment about your perfect girl being catholic and no one had said anything. I don't mind people having their opinions about religion, but when people force his or her beliefs on me, that's when I get annoyed, I made a comment about something and Mek laid into me, accusing me of being a hypocrite and then, also not being catholic only because I support gay people and coz I think the pope needs a reality check into the 21st centuary. I may not be very religious, and my mum actually agrees with me on the pope needing to wake up and smell the roses, although mum is against gays- but she's had to deal with it coz of me having some gay friends, but she respects them for the life they have chosen to live (and I honestly don't know if you're born gay or you choose to become gay- and I don't think we'll ever know)

And it's spelt Ihovia I think? I know it begins with I not J hehehehe, all those years of watching Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade have paid off, I learned something :D
Deeply religious people are often the less tolerant ones!


And re Jehova - here is a list for you. :)

Forms of the divine name in different languages, indicating international acceptance of the form Jehovah
Awabakal - Yehóa
Bugotu - Jihova
Cantonese - Yehwowah
Danish - Jehova
Dutch - Jehovah
Efik - Jehovah
English - Jehovah
Fijian - Jiova
Finnish - Jehova
French - Jéhovah
Futuna - Ihova
German - Jehova
Hungarian - Jehova
Igbo - Jehova
Italian - Geova
Japanese - Ehoba
Maori - Ihowa
Motu - Iehova
Mwala-Malu - Jihova
Narrinyeri - Jehovah
Nembe - Jihova
Petats - Jihouva
Polish - Jehowa
Portuguese - Jeová
Romanian - Iehova
Samoan - Ieova
Sotho - Jehova
Spanish - Jehová
Swahili - Yehova
Swedish - Jehova
Tahitian - Iehova
Tagalog - Jehova
Tongan - Jihova
Venda - Yehova
Xhosa - uYehova
Yoruba - Jehofah
Zulu - uJehova

Meksilon
01-09-2002, 08:16 AM
Bear with me.

Oh no... I started all of this...I feel so sad and guilty...

PS: God loves everyone. God doesn't love ANYONE more than anyone else.

God UNCONDITIONALLY loves everyone. Unfortunatly God is unabel to look upon someone with sin (who's on this earth) which is why I presume He can't stop loving. He misses them!

You didn't start this, I did.

I think Brief's post makes up my thoughts...

Whats with the mob mentality against this guy?

From what I see (unless there was something in a different topic)
he is simply contradicting the words of some with facts from the bible, he is not contradicting using his own opinions.

Granted, he should probably not be coming off nearly as strong as he is, and I completely agree that beliefs should not be forced upon somebody else.

But to have numerous people repeatedly lay into him about it, is taking it a little bit far.

First, the original Topic:
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29313&pagenumber=1
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29313&pagenumber=2

But I see you found it.

I am interested to talk to you all, but I mainly interested in the Christians here. That is what I say is targeted at Christans and if you aren't Christian then I encourage you to take up the right Religion :). I would like to think they are sticking to what the Bible says and not what they say. Like you said I haven't come up with my own ideas, what I am saying is DIRECTLY from the Bible, and I am against people comming up with their own ideas (like the Pope).

The argument "they can't help it" is ludircris, in the same way you can choose to have gay relationships you can murder, rape and disrespect God. AND, yes Natty, I think God cares how we use His Name anywhere.

There's a good verse which shows that I'm quite right to hate divorce, I'll find it...

"I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfathfulness, and marrys another woman commits adultery." (Jesus speaking, Matthew 19:9, see also Mark 10:11-12)

Now back on track... it is ludicris to say "come up with your own ideas and abide by them" when you are part of a religion. God and God alone is in authority of what is right and what is wrong and it could not possibly work any other way.

Look Natty, Catholics have given the Pope the authority leaders should not have. He has the authority to alter the religion as he sees fit. I don't want to hear any more about it.

Mek... I think that you need to stop refering to other people as evil.

Who did I ever call evil?

If you are born to find the same sex attractive then WOW, you don't say? I mean some people are born alcoholics. You still have that chice and don't tell me you don't.

And it's spelt Ihovia I think? I know it begins with I not J.

Hmm, the personal Name of God IS Yahweh. It's even registered in the Dictionary, but Jehova is what the Jew's decided to use since they felt Yahewh was too sacred to be used. Some Jew's spell it with an I but everyone else does not (ie, JWs - ACK!)

Yahweh on the other hand can be spelt Yahweh, Jahweh, Yahveh, Jahveh.

Even used as: Yahwism, Jehwism, Yahvism, Jahvism.

I think Christans should go the way of the Bible, God's way and not their own way (shoot me, but everyone should be Christian).

Some of your arguments are quite personal and verry aggressive, I'm not the problem here please don't tell ME to calm down and read everyone else's comments.

I am yet to see any other Christan here quote from the Bible a verse or two to back them up, and this topic is not realy intended at thoes who aren't Christian. Now I have no doubs that some of you may well be gay and haven't said so here and so don't think I'm talking about people "out there".

Natty you are so disrespective of God when you talk I really do doubt you feel any devotion to Him at all. You seem to like not to capatalise, but the 3rd commandment is "You shall not misuse the Name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses His Name".

Statements like "Jesus Christ!" or "Oh my God!" are obviously included, why else is there that commandment? So show some respect to your God Natty.

No I know because you've all resorted to personally attacking me you need to ask yourselves why you don't try to argue instead. Or acknowledge my points. And perhapps quote the Bible.

I have made my position clear many times and you have ignored it. How Foolish. (um, applies to some of you, not all of you :))

=mek=

Guybrush122
01-09-2002, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by Meksilon
Some Jew's spell it with an I but everyone else does not (ie, JWs - ACK!)

Actually it IS spelled with an I. It's not the Jew's way, its the LATIN way.

Originally posted by Meksilon

I am yet to see any other Christan here quote from the Bible a verse or two to back them up, and this topic is not realy intended at thoes who aren't Christian. Now I have no doubs that some of you may well be gay and haven't said so here and so don't think I'm talking about people "out there".

Natty you are so disrespective of God when you talk I really do doubt you feel any devotion to Him at all. You seem to like not to capatalise, but the 3rd commandment is "You shall not misuse the Name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses His Name".

Statements like "Jesus Christ!" or "Oh my God!" are obviously included, why else is there that commandment? So show some respect to your God Natty.

No I know because you've all resorted to personally attacking me you need to ask yourselves why you don't try to argue instead. Or acknowledge my points. And perhapps quote the Bible.

I have made my position clear many times and you have ignored it. How Foolish. (um, applies to some of you, not all of you :))

=mek=

Statements like 'Jesus Christ!' and 'Oh My God!' are included? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard! They are not misuses of God's name! They aren't accusing him or speaking down to him, it's not blasphemy....not even God Damnit is blasphemy (Damn means 'Damnation' so Damnit means 'Damn that thing' so if you stub your toe on a rock and scream God Damnit then you are asking God to damn that rock) Secondly, you said "Show a little respect to your God, Natty" HER God? To me it sounds like you want her to respect YOUR GOD! She's Catholic but not as strong as you, there is no way to change that, no way in a million years, so why bother to do that? Just because something is in the Bible doesn't mean it's true and it doesn't mean that you interpret everything right in it. Mind you, the Bible sexist at times....

I believe the Bible states something like "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born
and a time to die...
...A time to kill and a time to heal...."

There are exceptions, Mek, I don't think you have learned what the bible has said, Murder isn't right, but killing can be acceptable at times....a little evil can be done to preserve true good. And that everything has an exception, maybe humans are to obsolite to comprehend, but if there is a God, he would know, and he wouldn't be that petty to eternally damn us for one little slip up when we stub our toe. Your arguement is poor and weak. You are entitled to believe whatever you can believe, but, you do not have the right to tell us to believe the same thing, you do not have the right to dictate or to represent your God to convert us. Because we've already made our decision, and it isn't a FLAW! Its what we love, and if you don't want God's children to be happy in a (what you think is a) misleading life, then you don't care about anyone but yourself.

Kjølen
01-09-2002, 06:08 PM
Why don't we just stop this and get back to ragular life, please?
Think about that picture, "God, Please make it stop." With the praying boy. Let's just get back to peace and delete this thread. Please. I AM the one to blame. I said "catholic" and Mek remembers about his girlfriend even look. And I'm pretty new so i don't want a bad impression on LucasForums.

PS: I saw that "God, please make it stop" picture on BulbaGarden during the Sept. 11th attacks...Who got that pic? Where they from BulbaGarden?

Guybrush122
01-09-2002, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Guybrush M-T
Why don't we just stop this and get back to ragular life, please?
Think about that picture, "God, Please make it stop." With the praying boy. Let's just get back to peace and delete this thread. Please. I AM the one to blame. I said "catholic" and Mek remembers about his girlfriend even look. And I'm pretty new so i don't want a bad impression on LucasForums.

PS: I saw that "God, please make it stop" picture on BulbaGarden during the Sept. 11th attacks...Who got that pic? Where they from BulbaGarden?

its not your damn fault!!!! yeesh, mek is the stupid protestant who wants to convert everybody.....you triggered nothing.....AT ALL

Natty
01-09-2002, 08:21 PM
Mek, for the love of god, will you get over it? As far as I'm concerned you're causing problems on purpose, you are entitled to your opinion, just as the rest of us are entitled to our opinion. Just because we are all different religions, doesn't mean we have to agree with every aspect of it. Deal with it, there is no need to be abusive of slag people off, just because their ideas are different to yours about religion.

Now shut the hell up, no one cares about religion, if you wanna agrue, go find some bible bashing site for freaks in which you can bore and abuse people over with your stupid attempts to make everyone feel bad because their religion beliefs don't agree with yours. It's our life and we can live it out how we see fit. I'm going to hell whoohoo, I used a condom last night :rolleyes: won't someone please save me? Hey who knows? Maybe I'll get lucky and God will speare me and decide he wants a f*ck afterall. God only knows I've asked him often enough in my prayers for one.

Meksilon
01-09-2002, 08:44 PM
Guy122, your saying that post sounds like it's from a Christian? Tell me you don't see the problem.

=mek=

Guybrush122
01-09-2002, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by Meksilon
Guy122, your saying that post sounds like it's from a Christian? Tell me you don't see the problem.

=mek=

im not a christian, im a marxist.....just because i said you were a stupid protestant doesnt mean im a christian....dumbas's

Meksilon
01-09-2002, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by Guybrush122
im not a christian, im a marxist.....just because i said you were a stupid protestant doesnt mean im a christian....dumbas's

I didn't call you a Christian, GEEZ!

=mek=

Natty
01-09-2002, 09:32 PM
Hands up those who think Mek is a troublemaker?

*puts both hands in the air waving them about*

Deadmeat_X
01-10-2002, 04:44 AM
Originally posted by Meksilon
. Some Jew's spell it with an I but everyone else does not (ie, JWs - ACK

Did you really write "JEWS-ACK"? Excuse me, but isn't this racism? Have you slept during historyclass, and now you don't know what happened in WW2? Mek, listen good cause I'll only say this once: you can't hate someone for his religion. You can't hate him because his ideas are other than yours. Doesn't your GREAT BOOK OF ALL BOOKS say something bout racism?

QUOTE]Originally posted by Meksilon
I think Christans should go the way of the Bible, God's way and not their own way (shoot me, but everyone should be Christian).[/B][/QUOTE]

I'll shoot you. This shows you think a lot like the christians during the inquisition.

QUOTE]Originally posted by Meksilon
Some of your arguments are quite personal and verry aggressive, I'm not the problem here please don't tell ME to calm down and read everyone else's comments.).[/B][/QUOTE]

That probably cause you're attacking us too. You might not see it, too busy to spread the true religion and being a Messiah and stuff (I'M NOT YOUR MESSIAH, SO FU(K OFF - Montt Python, Life of Brain), but most of your posts were pretty agressive.

QUOTE]Originally posted by Meksilon
Natty you are so disrespective of God when you talk I really do doubt you feel any devotion to Him at all. You seem to like not to capatalise, but the 3rd commandment is "You shall not misuse the Name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses His Name
Statements like "Jesus Christ!" or "Oh my God!" are obviously included, why else is there that commandment? So show some respect to your God Natty.
).[/B][/QUOTE]

Didn't you read my post fu(ker? You really think a made up caracter would fu(king care if you misused his fu(king name on a fu(king monkey island-forum? You think that everyday a non-existing power checks all of the internet and gives tickets to the ones who say goddammit?

QUOTE]Originally posted by Meksilon
No I know because you've all resorted to personally attacking me you need to ask yourselves why you don't try to argue instead. Or acknowledge my points. And perhapps quote the Bible.
).[/B][/QUOTE]

Quoting the bible is, sorry to say it, for weaklings who can't come up with their own arguements. You received brains dammit, do something with them

QUOTE]Originally posted by Meksilon
I have made my position clear many times and you have ignored it. How Foolish. (um, applies to some of you, not all of you :))

=mek= [/B][/QUOTE]

Why foolish? We'll go to hell for calling a true-believer a fu(ker? For saying goddammit without a capital G? For being really irretated by someone who keeps sticking to his own opinion (well, he believes it's his opinion, but off course it's not)? If you go to hell for that, let me go to hell, so I at least won't have to see you in heaven.

And I'll go with Natty: two habds and a foot high in the air

Natty
01-10-2002, 04:56 AM
Deady? I'm looking forward to seeing you in hell, remind me to give you my phone number too, so we can catch up in hell :p

Mek is an insult to the majority every-day Aussie, who prefer to sit around watching cricket and drinking beer (to the people who don't know what cricket is, go to www.baggygreen.com.au) Although, I don't drink beer, I hate the stuff, cricket is whoooohoooo :D

Can you go to hell for drinking alcohol? :rolleyes:

Meksilon
01-10-2002, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by Natty
Deady? I'm looking forward to seeing you in hell, remind me to give you my phone number too, so we can catch up in hell :p

Mek is an insult to the majority every-day Aussie, who prefer to sit around watching cricket and drinking beer (to the people who don't know what cricket is, go to www.baggygreen.com.au) Although, I don't drink beer, I hate the stuff, cricket is whoooohoooo :D

Can you go to hell for drinking alcohol? :rolleyes:

[Uggh, once again, I have had to edit a Mek post due to bad language. Let's play nice now Mek. -MtBlanc]

hell, why are you always trying to offend me you *****? What have I ever said about anyone that was offensive? I never make personal attacks and yet you and several others have personally atacked me offensivly here.

Now please. STOP. If you want to argue, fine - I'm up for it. But don't use personal attacks please.

=mek=

Natty
01-10-2002, 08:28 AM
I don't know about anyone else Mek, but I have found your origional comment about your gf who is catholic insulting. Also the numerous comments about homosexuals I have found insulting. Don't forget when you accused me of being un catholic for various reasons- you might not have insulted personally, but you have made some very insulting comments, and in some cases have been very racist. Next time look at what you've said beforehand before you accuse people of being rude and attacking you, coz all you have done is complained about catholics, and insulted various forum members coz of their religious beliefs

Meksilon
01-10-2002, 08:46 AM
racist? when was I ever racist??

I don't say anything in an intentinal insulting manar.

=mek=

Metallus
01-10-2002, 05:29 PM
Your spelling offends me.

MtBlanc
01-10-2002, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Meksilon


I didn't call you a Christian, GEEZ!

=mek=

lol! Now aren't you the hypocrite? Do you know what "Geez" means? It's short for Jesus! Way to use the Lord's name in vain! You just broke a commandment!

Why should we even be listening to you, you hypocrite?

Kid
01-10-2002, 08:51 PM
What purpose does this guy have for even still being here?

Shoo boy, you cause problems

Guybrush122
01-10-2002, 09:50 PM
wow, nobody got my marxist joke eh? oh well.... :rolleyes:

Anyway, this rascist, fascist, *******, ****er, **** head, should be banned immediately......

Meksilon
01-11-2002, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by MtBlanc
lol! Now aren't you the hypocrite? Do you know what "Geez" means? It's short for Jesus! Way to use the Lord's name in vain!

Why do I even listen to you? That's just where it originated from, actually wait... GEE originated from that and GEEZ originated from GEE.

What I'm saying is that so many people mistake Lucifer as another name for Satan.

=mek=

MtBlanc
01-11-2002, 06:19 PM
Hey buddy, I'm not the one preaching to everyone here. If you don't apply those standards to yourself, why should you apply them to others? And you still used the Lord's name in vain, however you try to rationalize it.

Guybrush122
01-11-2002, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by MtBlanc
Hey buddy, I'm not the one preaching to everyone here. If you don't apply those standards to yourself, why should you apply them to others? And you still used the Lord's name in vain, however you try to rationalize it.

amen dink doggy dog (ugh, did i just quote a rapper? quick, draw and quarter me....)


the fact is mek is a hypocrite who thinks that everybody is wrong unless we are EXACTLY like him in the religion aspect...

oh, yeah, since we're all going to hell.....I'll bring the marshmellows......NiKo, get some firewood........Natty get some gram crackers.....and fender, see if you can round up a few chocolate........ITS S'MORES NIGHT IN HELL! WHOOPIE!

COJ
01-11-2002, 07:13 PM
yo Mek guy, i think u got brain wash by some old lady that was trying to make a jehova freak,

LOL!!! i just remembered, they came to our house, and my dad answered them naked...they never came back!!

haha poor ladies, specially with my dad...eech..

Natty
01-11-2002, 07:21 PM
Yummmmmmmmmy smores- WTF are smores? they sound yummmy though :D

I agree with Dinghy- if Mek can't even apply the religion standards to himself, then why should he try to do so with everyone else?

I just want to point this out- and in no way has it been edited, all quotes come from Mek unless otherwise stated

Guy122, your saying that post sounds like it's from a Christian? Tell me you don't see the problem.

I didn't call you a Christian, GEEZ!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but just with his comment there- isn't that wrong to assume someone is Christian coz of a comment? Now lets see if we can find all the insulting posts or comments...


I just remembered my girlfriend is Catholic... well that's her one and only flaw then - not being Protestant.

The Pope has been a symbol of religious corruption

Catholics have that cult-based nature you see, which is what I don't like it

A few words:

1. Gays are a delicate issue I personally beleive homosexual relaionships are wrong, but it isn't wrong to be gay. (ie as the Bible says "homosexual offenders will be sent to hell").

2. Religion either makes a person a part of that religion or hypercritical.

No offence intended here, Natty is majorly hypercritical. A real Catholic is supposed to think of the pope as more important then Jesus is today (wrong- I still think Jesus is more important)

All the same, I do know what I beleive and why I beleive it, in answer to your question MtBlanc, yes I have had gay friends in the past but currently do not. No one is evil, but everyone has the potentional to do evil things even for what can be seen as pure reasons.

I didn't call Homosexuals evil. But the act is fueled by the evil one. (good old satan, I'm gonna be his bytch when I go to hell :D)

She's Catholic? Ha, don't think so. She isn't even Christian, I can't beleive she said that! (Yes I said it because unlike you I happen to realize that gay people are normal people like everyone else (except you- I definatly think you're ab normal Mek) and they shouldn't be judged on their sexual preferance. I believe it's wrong, but maybe I'll just go find some lesbians to have sex with. Hey Jesus and God will be looking down on us, who knows, they might even jerk off while watching **huge sarcasm** apologies to anyone other than Mek who found that insulting BTW) Why am I so wrong for believing gay should be treated the same as hetrosexual people?)

Every time you spell God with a small G you are misusing His name. I never say things like "Oh my God" or "That was an act of God" or "Jesus Christ!" or anything else like that. I find a simple word starting with an "F" sufficient for the task. (is god against swaering? I would have thought he would be?)

God UNCONDITIONALLY loves everyone. Unfortunatly God is unabel to look upon someone with sin (who's on this earth) which is why I presume He can't stop loving. He misses them! (wouldn't that mean he should love homosexuals again? regardless of whether according to him it's wrong? I thought Jesus and God taught everyone to forgive and to love each other? or did I miss something and I've believed in a different God my whole life?)


I am interested to talk to you all, but I mainly interested in the Christians here. That is what I say is targeted at Christans and if you aren't Christian then I encourage you to take up the right Religion (WTF is the right religion? there is no right or wrong religion- what a silly and stupid comment)

Who did I ever call evil? (scroll up)

I think Christans should go the way of the Bible, God's way and not their own way (shoot me, but everyone should be Christian). (I find that increibly insulting, and some-what racist, that's like saying everyone should be white Americans- I mean who cares about the Asians or the greeks or Italians or white- Australians?)

[quote]show some respect to your God Natty.[/wuote] (my god? so now he's only my god? I thought god was for everyone? he's everyone's god?)

HaggisMcMuffin
01-12-2002, 08:05 PM
Smores!!? Smores are melted marshmellows (usually roasted over a campfire) with hersheys chocolate between two gram-crackers. It's an american thing I guess.

Meksilon
01-12-2002, 10:30 PM
2 comments:

1. There is only 1 Living God. All other gods are false gods and not real. If you accept Him as your God Natty He is your God, and being Catholic you've accepted that.
2. Swearing - try to think of God only being upset when you either offend someone else or Him.

=mek=

Guybrush122
01-12-2002, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by Meksilon
2 comments:

1. There is only 1 Living God. All other gods are false gods and not real. If you accept Him as your God Natty He is your God, and being Catholic you've accepted that.
2. Swearing - try to think of God only being upset when you either offend someone else or Him.

=mek=

ok...........i think it would be best if you just shut up...........i dont say that because of my personal hatred for you (oops, i said an evil word :P) but its because everyone disagrees with you. believe what you want, just stop this damn argument........

NiKo
01-13-2002, 04:50 PM
hey guys, let me talk to him...

hey mek, i'm NiKo.....i used to talk to satan and be a bellboy making resevations in hell...


i see your name on the list buddy...;)

you'r probably asking yourself why you'r going to hell....

well,Daily Masturbation is a sin....


tsk tsk

Meksilon
01-13-2002, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by NiKo
hey guys, let me talk to him...

hey mek, i'm NiKo.....i used to talk to satan and be a bellboy making resevations in hell...


i see your name on the list buddy...;)

you'r probably asking yourself why you'r going to hell....

well,Daily Masturbation is a sin....


tsk tsk

Masturbation is no sin!!!!!

=mek=

Natty
01-13-2002, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by Meksilon


Masturbation is no sin!!!!!

=mek=


It's called having sex with yourself, and since sex before marriage is such a sin, that means your going to hell buddy

Eeeeek :eek: Wait a sec... did you just practically admit that you masturbate?!?!?!


And NiKo? Am I on the list? What am I going to hell for? :D

brief
01-14-2002, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by Meksilon
Masturbation is no sin!!!!!

<!-- begin religion rant -->

Is not? Well, I suppose technically, it might not be, if you never think about anyone while in the act of masturbation.

Perhaps you've heard of the seven deadly sins?

Pride
Envy
Wrath (Anger)
Sloth
Avarice (Greed)
Gluttony
Lust

What was that last one? Oh, yeah, Lust.

lust
n. 1. strong sexual desire without idealized or spiritualized feelings 2. any passionate desire
v.t. to have a passionate desire
&nbsp;&nbsp;--The New Lexicon Webster's Dictionary of the English Language

Oops. Hmm. Looks like if you have intense sexual desire, as one almost certainly does in the act of masturbation, guess what? You've just sinned.

What's that? The seven deadly sins aren't specifically mentioned in the Bible, you say? Well, the Bible does say this:

Thou shall not commit adultery. --Genesis 20:14

You say you've never committed adultery? Okay, but this is what Jesus says:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. --Matthew 5:28

Oh. Say, did you lust for someone while you were masturbating? Yes? Then you've committed adultery.


The simple fact of the matter is that all of us have sinned, in one way or another, and have done so numerous times. If you are true believers of the faith, then it is not your place to place judgement.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; --Romans 3:23

I'm a sinner. So's everyone else. The point of the Gospel is not to point fingers at everyone and say to them, "you have sinned." The point is to let them know that while everyone, including yourself, has sinned, and by God's justice, deserve to die and burn in hell... it need not be the case, for though we have all sinned, the atonement for our sins has already been paid in the form of Jesus Christ and the crucifixion.

<!-- end religion rant -->

Thank you, and good night.

NiKo
01-14-2002, 08:05 AM
Brief, exelent job!
i would shake your hand but.....ya know, the whole topic.....

so mek, you'r going straight to hell.....

*nudges mek and winks*
(psst, i'd take some vaseline with me 'mr. spanky) ;)

Guybrush122
01-14-2002, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by NiKo
Brief, exelent job!
i would shake your hand but.....ya know, the whole topic.....

so mek, you'r going straight to hell.....

*nudges mek and winks*
(psst, i'd take some vaseline with me 'mr. spanky) ;)

well, in that case im gonna get a huge tank of vaseline...cause im going to hell three times over? Niko, do you think Satan will think masturbating 28-35 times a week is a sin????

...*gulp*...

Fender
01-14-2002, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by HaggisMcMuffin
Smores!!? Smores are melted marshmellows (usually roasted over a campfire) with hersheys chocolate between two gram-crackers. It's an american thing I guess.

I know where I wish I was right now...... GOD Bless America!

HaggisMcMuffin
01-15-2002, 01:10 AM
Fender: hehe =)

Meksilon: Actually according to the catholic church, masterbation is a sin. It's because your not supposed to "send out the little troopers" except for procreation. I know this because I've heard about their ideas of Artificial Insemination. There are only certain methods of AI that are OK. This means that contraceptives are condemned by the Catholic Church as well.

NiKo
01-15-2002, 09:35 AM
hey everyone!!
its mexican night in hell!

Feral
01-15-2002, 12:08 PM
Ooh! I'll bring the salsa dip!

Guybrush122
01-15-2002, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Feral
Ooh! I'll bring the salsa dip!

ive got the bean burritos covered!!!

Fender
01-15-2002, 05:52 PM
And I'll rent Hell Hall! I'll make a mosh pit, and bring some mosh music!

Guybrush122
01-16-2002, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by fender
And I'll rent Hell Hall! I'll make a mosh pit, and bring some mosh music!

not before i blast some punk and stiff little fingers at ya...

Dark Stalkey
01-16-2002, 11:26 AM
Why are you so sure that God exists?
If i were a Hindu or a Buddist would i go to your hell for not believing in your god?
Not likely...

brief
01-16-2002, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by Dark Stalkey
Why are you so sure that God exists?
If i were a Hindu or a Buddist would i go to your hell for not believing in your god?
Not likely...

I'd say that you'd probably go to hell regardless, though the reason might be different.

What you or I believe is irrelavent regarding what the deciding factor is for one to be condemned to hell. What matters is what's true. However, in religion, what's true is not something tangible through our means--it requires a leap of faith. Therefore I will not try to argue with others as to what religion is "right" or what religion is "wrong"; such an endeavor would be an exercise in futility, because no one will be able to produce any kind of evidence solid enough to prove or disprove something, nor is one side likely able to convince the other in sharing the same opinion.

So, in answer to your first question (Why are you so sure that God exists?), it's something called "faith."

faith n. Confident belief in the truth, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing
Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence
&nbsp;&nbsp;--Dictionary.com

Even atheists have faith, whether they know it or not--they strongly believe that there is no god.


Now, will you go to hell believe you don't believe in the same God that I believe in? Maybe. Maybe not. If there is indeed a hell and a God (or gods), chances are you'll end up there, but not necessarily because you don't believe in the same God I do.

What the %^@# does that mean, you say?

Well, here's a simplified explanation... let's say that Christianity/Catholicism got it wrong, and that Hinduism/Buddhism got it right. What happens then?

Everything is karma-based. When you die, what happens to your astral being depends on your karma. The sum of your positive and negative energies. Most people will not have enough positive energy to reach Nirvana. Many will be sent to hell to work off their negative karma, and might be reincarnated. Some will be reincarnated as lower beings, and some as humans, and continue to work on their karma. But since they have no memory of their previous lives, some might be worse off the next time they die. What religion you believed in at this point is quite useless, because in the end, it's the karma that counts, not what you believed in.


And if Christianity/Catholicism go it right? Well, you didn't believe in God, so...


"Keaton always said, he didn't believe in God, but he's afraid of Him. Well, I believe in God, and the only thing that scares me is Kaiser Soze." --Verbal Kint

Natty
01-16-2002, 07:57 PM
I reckon there's different gods depending on the religion/faith. Such as Bhuddism has their own God, christians have thiers and so on and so forth. Just like dogs have their own god, elephants have thiers, dolphins have a god...:D

Honey
01-19-2002, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Natty
I reckon there's different gods depending on the religion/faith. Such as Bhuddism has their own God, christians have thiers and so on and so forth. Just like dogs have their own god, elephants have thiers, dolphins have a god...:D

Hey Natty :)
Your thoughts remind me of some philosopher's point of view.. he said that people think of God as a (physically) copy of themselves, so if animals were to have a religion, there would be a dog god for dogs, an ant god for ants and so on.. The point is that everyone sees God in there own way, and no matter if you are catholic, orthodox, buddist, marxist (actually, that's not a religion, GB122 :) ), whatever, you just have to be faithful to your god and to yourself. I think religion is something personal, it concerns nobody but the person himself.

Guybrush122
01-19-2002, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by Honey


marxist (actually, that's not a religion, GB122 :) )

i know........i was making fun of fender :p

Tyrell
01-24-2002, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by Natty
I reckon there's different gods depending on the religion/faith. Such as Bhuddism has their own God, christians have thiers and so on and so forth. Just like dogs have their own god, elephants have thiers, dolphins have a god...:DTo Natty ("Satan's Bytch" dosen't set a good example as a moderator)...

Now this is odd coming from a Christian, as are most of the others of your posts. For instance: do you talk to God Natty? I thought prayer was normal? Do you even know the Ten Commandments? Specifically the [u]first[/b] Commandment:

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me." [EXODUS XX:3]

There is more on this:
[EXODUS XXII:20] "He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed."

You see, all other gods are false gods created by man and therefore are dead gods. If you create a god it's a dead god and not a living God (of which there is and can be only one). These quotes are from the King James version, please look them up in NIV if you don't comprehend their meanings.

You said statements like "Oh my God" are fine.

[EXODUS XXII:28] "Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people."

[LEVITICUS XIX:12] "And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God. I am the LORD"

Homosexuality, socially acceptable, let's look at the wider LUST picture, that covers most hedrosexual relations. It's normal. It's what everyone is like, what everyone does, normal people.

Well?

[EXODUS XXIII:2] "Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil..."

Your arguments are all completely ludicrous, if you're a Christian your argument needs to be Biblically based.

Originally posted by Meksilon
A few words:

1. Gays are a delicate issue I personally beleive homosexual relaionships are wrong, but it isn't wrong to be gay. (ie as the Bible says "homosexual offenders will be sent to hell").

2. Religion either makes a person a part of that religion or hypercritical.

1 is wrong, 2 is right. Let's quickly expand: LUST is wrong, Homosexuality being a type of Lust, is, by definition, wrong. I can admire a man's good looks and that doesn’t make me in any way homosexual. 2 is something I have never heard before but if you think about it it's completely true. Remember "normal people" do not enter the Kingdom of God, that is why we are Christian Natty, so that He may grant us eternal life. Let me repeat that, this is how you know it to be true: "normal people" will not inherit the kingdom of God, as only the children of God will. And He speaks to us if we listen.

Ty

duder
01-24-2002, 03:56 AM
Originally posted by Tyrell


1 is wrong, 2 is right. Let's quickly expand: LUST is wrong, Homosexuality being a type of Lust, is, by definition, wrong. I can admire a man's good looks and that doesn’t make me in any way homosexual. 2 is something I have never heard before but if you think about it it's completely true. Remember "normal people" do not enter the Kingdom of God, that is why we are Christian Natty, so that He may grant us eternal life. Let me repeat that, this is how you know it to be true: "normal people" will not inherit the kingdom of God, as only the children of God will. And He speaks to us if we listen.

Ty

1.WRONG WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE BIBLE!!! Your beliefs do not make you an authority.

2.Could you give me a theory on what happens to all those people who do not enter the Kingdom of God?

Natty
01-24-2002, 05:25 AM
I'm over the whole friggen religious debate- I have more friggen problems in real life then to sit around and listen to pathetic whinging bible bashers. Maybe your lives are soooooooo perfect and great, but there are people out there who have problems of their own and aren't as perfect as you are.

**** Off, I'm sick of preachy pathetic bible bashers. I'm catholic it's not like I chose to be catholic, I'm only catholic coz my mother christened me and made me have my communion.

This is ****, I don't see why I should have to explain myself, just coz I'm catholic doesn't mean I have to agree with every single friggen tiny detail about the religion.

Someone get back to me when the bible bashers have left.

Grannen
01-24-2002, 05:43 AM
Tyrell, you are really a saint, aren't you?

"Let whosoever is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her." —John 8:3-11

Al-back from the BigWhoop
01-24-2002, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by Grannen
"Let whosoever is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her." —John 8:3-11 [/B]

POF
-Mom, i wasnt talking to u!

:D

Fender
01-24-2002, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by Guybrush122


i know........i was making fun of fender :p

If you ever do that again, I'll paly them the song of you singing! ;) J/K

Guybrush122
01-24-2002, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by fender


If you ever do that again, I'll paly them the song of you singing! ;) J/K

dear god anything but that.......NO

Tyrell
01-24-2002, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by Natty
I'm over the whole friggen religious debate- I have more friggen problems in real life then to sit around and listen to pathetic whinging bible bashers. Maybe your lives are soooooooo perfect and great, but there are people out there who have problems of their own and aren't as perfect as you are.

**** Off, I'm sick of preachy pathetic bible bashers. I'm catholic it's not like I chose to be catholic, I'm only catholic coz my mother christened me and made me have my communion.

This is ****, I don't see why I should have to explain myself, just coz I'm catholic doesn't mean I have to agree with every single friggen tiny detail about the religion.

Someone get back to me when the bible bashers have left.Thankyou for your heated reply Natty. You either choose to be Catholic or you choose not to be. You aren't made one because your "made you have your communion".

Do you know the one (and only) satanic commandment, Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law written by Aleister Crowley. If you live by that law you are not Christian. I have matters to deal with in what you call "the real world". But will you share yours?

Thankyou for calling me pathetic Natty, hardly what I'd call constructive in any manner.



Now there must be real Christians here, people dedicated to God, who love God, who spread God's word and who talk to God? Please speak now.


To Duder,

Originally posted by duder
1.WRONG WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE BIBLE!!! Your beliefs do not make you an authority.

2.Could you give me a theory on what happens to all those people who do not enter the Kingdom of God?I don't understand your first statement, and if you had a relationship with God you would know how silly it sounds. These are not just my beliefs, they are the truth. What authority does a man have to impose laws on others if a higher power hadn't set them?

2. Certainly! It's very simple, if you do not enter the kingdom of God then you spend an eternity without God, this is known as "hell".

Ty

Natty
01-24-2002, 10:50 PM
Maybe it's because I've lost faith in God? Where has God been when I've needed him? When I've prayed and begged God for such and such (and the 10million dollars doesn't count- I was being sarcastic) and he hasn't answered my prayers.

I had no say in my communion- what part of ït don't you understand? If I could I would change my religion to, I dunno what, but obviously something a lot more tolorent than what the catholics are. It's like saying I'm not Australian because I don't like hot weather because 97% of the Australian population loves hot weather, and I'm in the 3% who friggen hates it.

Face it- I have my opinions, I also believe in the big bang theory, and we all know that Catholics don't believe in that theory.

You can have your opinion, and that's fine, but don't friggen condem me just because I don't believe in such and such within the religion. What gives you the right to judge me? I'll show respect to those who deserve it, especially when I am shown respect in return, and since you and Mek have failed to show me any form of respect.

Bugger this, it's like talking to a brick wall. I'm not even going to bother looking at this topic anymore, I have my opinions and I'm not going to let any snooty, pathetic bible basher tell me what I should and shouldn't believe or feel just because some book and a few pieces of rock with some words chisled onto it say that I should do this and do that- what gives anyone the right to tell me how I should feel, what I should believe and how I should think? Absolutly nobody, and if morons like Mek and Tyrell (who are probably the same person anyway, I doubt that 2freaks would spend their time on here just to annoy the hell out of everyone) can't accept that, then fine I don't care. If I go to hell I go to hell I don't particually care, afterall I believe in reincarnation and I'm coming back as a bytch :D

Can someone please close down this topic? I don't have autho to close topics on the harbor. This whole argument is pointless, no one is ever gonna agree on anything.

Tyrell
01-24-2002, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by Natty
Maybe it's because I've lost faith in God? Where has God been when I've needed him? When I've prayed and begged God for such and such (and the 10million dollars doesn't count- I was being sarcastic) and he hasn't answered my prayers.What can you expect if you don't believe in Him and love Him? He does answer prayers Natty, but you can't expect God to answer them in the way you want especially when you don't believe in Him.

I have asked God specific questions in the past: like the classic "if this is not Your will then give me a sign" but also "show me Your feelings in regard to -". And he has defiantly, beyond any doubt answered me and told me what is His will.

You have also contradicted yourself, you just admitted that you've needed Him. Well I hope that you can see the truth and let go of your ties in this world that hold you back. The Christian God is a living God. He is real. He is awesome. He is not a myth. Tell me why are you so concerned with this world when there is so much more? When you die on this earth it will not be the end.

Originally posted by Natty
I had no say in my communion- what part of ït don't you understand? If I could I would change my religion to, I dunno what, but obviously something a lot more tolorent than what the catholics are. It's like saying I'm not Australian because I don't like hot weather because 97% of the Australian population loves hot weather, and I'm in the 3% who friggen hates it.Really? That is very shameful, I didn't take communion until after I had become a committed Christian. That's where you stand up in front of the Church and proclaim your faith, which I don't think is necessary, but it's nice nonetheless.

Also, you should not join a religion because of how “tolerant” it is. I, personally, am only interested in the truth that’s why I am a servant of God. I am not Christian because I need or want to believe in a god, I know what the truth is and I accept it, I don’t fight it.

Originally posted by Natty
Face it- I have my opinions, I also believe in the big bang theory, and we all know that Catholics don't believe in that theory.I'm not Catholic, and I do not believe in the big bang theory. I don't believe we evolved from apes either, there are species of shark which have out-lived the Dinosaurs unchanged (have not evolved). And as far as the Big Bang is concerned, it tells us that clouds of gas floating around in space collided and caused a bang, but where did they come from?

Originally posted by Natty
You can have your opinion, and that's fine, but don't friggen condem me just because I don't believe in such and such within the religion. What gives you the right to judge me? I'll show respect to those who deserve it, especially when I am shown respect in return, and since you and Mek have failed to show me any form of respect.Excuse me? What sort of respect did you show me? I didn't say anything mean or offensive.

Originally posted by Natty
Bugger this, it's like talking to a brick wall. I'm coming back when these pathetic freaks have gone

I'll be on ICQ for anyone who nees meI am not pathetic, and I am not a freak. I find your comments obscene, irrational and offensive.

You can contact me at voigt_kampff@msn.com

Ty

Grannen
01-25-2002, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by Tyrell
I am not pathetic, and I am not a freak. I find your comments obscene, irrational and offensive.

You can contact me at voigt_kampff@msn.com

Ty

You are not a freak?

I think there are some of us who has a different opinion!

Tyrell
01-25-2002, 03:34 AM
Originally posted by Grannen
You are not a freak?

I think there are some of us who has a different opinion!Offending me just proves you have no valid argument.

You're supposed to be a moderator, I doubt this sets a good example. When moderators can't win their argument they just ban the argument? You can't click UserCP > "Edit Ignore List"? Is that really the image you want to give me of yourself? Now why did you call me a freak you naïve SCUMM™ loving EscapeMi phanatic. That's about as close as I'll get to insulting anyone, I expect you to return me the favour.

Cheers,

*Dr. Elden Tyrell

Grannen
01-25-2002, 04:34 AM
Originally posted by Tyrell
Offending me just proves you have no valid argument.

You're supposed to be a moderator, I doubt this sets a good example. When moderators can't win their argument they just ban the argument? You can't click UserCP > "Edit Ignore List"? Is that really the image you want to give me of yourself? Now why did you call me a freak you naïve SCUMM™ loving EscapeMi phanatic. That's about as close as I'll get to insulting anyone, I expect you to return me the favour.

Cheers,

*Dr. Elden Tyrell
Of course I'll return the favour! Even moderators are allowed to express their opinion and here is a sample of the word Freak.I can give you more synonyms from dictionaries but this one will do for now! :)


What exactly is a Jesus freak?

The phrase was recently used by the Christian rock band DC Talk to describe someone who loves Jesus wholeheartedly and is not afraid to let others know about it.

Webster defines "freak" as "an ardent enthusiast". Synonyms include: enthusiast, fanatic, maniac, zealot

Here are the lyrics to the song "Jesus Freak" by DC Talk

Separated I cut myself clean
From a past that comes back in my darkest of dreams
Been apprehended by a spiritual force
And a grace that replaced all the me I've divorced

I saw a man with tatt on his big fat belly
It wiggled around like marmalade jelly
It took me a while to catch what it said
Cause I had to match the rhythm of his belly with my head
Jesus Saves is what it raved in a typical tattoo green
He stood on a box in the middle of the city
And claimed he had a dream

What will people think when they hear that I'm a Jesus freak
What will people do when they find that it's true
I don't really care if they label me a Jesus freak
Cause there ain't no disguising the truth

Kamikaze my death is gain
I've been marked by my maker
A peculiar display
The high and lofty they see me as weak
Cause I won't live and die for the power they seek

There was a man from the desert with naps in his head
The sand that he walked was also his bed
The words that he spoke made the people assume
There wasn't too much left in the upper room
With skins on his back and hair on his face
They thought he was strange by the locusts he ate
The Pharisee's tripped when they heard him speak
Until the king took the head of this Jesus freak

What will people think when they hear that I'm a Jesus freak
What will people do when they find that it's true
I don't really care if they label me a Jesus freak
Cause there ain't no disguising the truth

People say I'm strange, does it make me a stranger
That my best friend was born in a manger
People say I'm strange, does it make me a stranger
That my best friend was born in a manger

What will people think when they hear that I'm a Jesus freak
What will people do when they find that it's true
I don't really care if they label me a Jesus freak
Cause there ain't no disguising the truth

What will people think
What will people think
What will people do
What will people do
I don't really care
What else can I say
There ain't no disguising the truth
Jesus is the way

duder
01-25-2002, 05:22 AM
Originally posted by Tyrell
I don't understand your first statement, and if you had a relationship with God you would know how silly it sounds. These are not just my beliefs, they are the truth. What authority does a man have to impose laws on others if a higher power hadn't set them?

2. Certainly! It's very simple, if you do not enter the kingdom of God then you spend an eternity without God, this is known as "hell".

Ty

1.If you hadnt noticed, not everyone shares your views. You have no right to tell other people thay are wrong in their beliefs.

2.So are you saying all those non-christians are on there way to eternal damnation? Do you realise how absolutely ludicrous this sounds?

Deadmeat_X
01-25-2002, 08:29 AM
Ah damn another Messiah...

Tyrell
01-25-2002, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by duder
1.If you hadnt noticed, not everyone shares your views. You have no right to tell other people thay are wrong in their beliefs.

2.So are you saying all those non-christians are on there way to eternal damnation? Do you realise how absolutely ludicrous this sounds?Oh, haha. Whatever you believe isn't the truth. So it doesn’t matter because you are deceiving everyone here, I am not. I speak from experience. My "views" are just the truth, nothing more. Well, documented truth. The Bible wasn't written by 1 person, it's a collection of historic records - why else do you think most historians are Christian?

If you want to prove to me otherwise then prove this: On the 3rd of the 4th 33ad at 3PM (according to Scripture) Jesus died and there was a total 3 hour solar eclipse of the sun. The history is completely consistent with the world, and everything else. Now there was obviously a storm - but what I want you to tell me is this: who rolled away the stone? Many Atheists were converted trying to figure out that "riddle".

2. How is that ludicrous?

Grannen, I am a Jesus Freak, yes. But not an ordinary freak. If you want to call me a Jesus Freak please use Jesus' name with it.

Ty

Deadmeat_X
01-25-2002, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by Tyrell
If you want to prove to me otherwise then prove this: On the 3rd of the 4th 33ad at 3PM (according to Scripture) Jesus died and there was a total 3 hour solar eclipse of the sun. The history is completely consistent with the world, and everything else. Now there was obviously a storm - but what I want you to tell me is this: who rolled away the stone? Many Atheists were converted trying to figure out that "riddle".

Ty

1: Coincidence (damn spelling). Or someone just made it up to make Jesus look good

2. Who rolled away the stone? What stone?

duder
01-25-2002, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by Tyrell
Oh, haha. Whatever you believe isn't the truth. So it doesn’t matter because you are deceiving everyone here, I am not. I speak from experience. My "views" are just the truth, nothing more. Well, documented truth. The Bible wasn't written by 1 person, it's a collection of historic records - why else do you think most historians are Christian?


What are you talking about? Most historians are christian??? You've just made that up, it's a lie. So it seems you are deceiving people, I am not deceiving anyone here. My point is that you cannot preach to people that they are wrong and you are right. Ever heard of the saying 'One mans truth is another mans lie'? People have different beliefs, and truth is only an interpretation of reality.

If you want to prove to me otherwise then prove this: On the 3rd of the 4th 33ad at 3PM (according to Scripture) Jesus died and there was a total 3 hour solar eclipse of the sun. The history is completely consistent with the world, and everything else. Now there was obviously a storm - but what I want you to tell me is this: who rolled away the stone? Many Atheists were converted trying to figure out that "riddle".


Im not trying to tell you that your beliefs are wrong, I am trying to say that you should try and keep an open mind to other peoples. This isn't a game!


2. How is that ludicrous?


It's ludicrous because you have just written off millions of good people who have different views to your own. I thought God was forgiving.

Can I just get this straight, I could never say that God doesn't exist. I simply don't know. What I do know is that I should live my life to the best ethical standard I can. Therefore I have nothing to fear.

Tyrell
01-25-2002, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by Deadmeat_X


1: Coincidence (damn spelling). Or someone just made it up to make Jesus look good

2. Who rolled away the stone? What stone?1. No, many people documented it, it can be cross-referenced (especially in the Bible, books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). And even more people saw and recorded seeing Jesus after he had been executed.

2. Anti-Christians generally don't question the history of these events but they just conclude "Jesus was an ordinary man", where the evidence is to the opposite. Believe it or not the stone that was supposed to guard Jesus' body is the least of what needs answering. Tell me who rolled it (it was a huge round thing, but I'm sure you know that), and who took the body and where they took it. And why. If you can actually figure that out then you can prove God doesn’t exist.

But you can't and I know you can't. All you need is to find someone's motives and the man power to do it and how they made the guards fall asleep without injuring them. It sounds so simple doesn’t it? Many historians tried to figure it out and simply concluded that God's angels did indeed do it.

Ty

PS: That Jesus Freak song rocks, but I haven't hear it in years!

Tyrell
01-25-2002, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by duder
It's ludicrous because you have just written off millions of good people who have different views to your own. I thought God was forgiving.He is! But you have to ask for forgiveness when you're truly sorry.

Originally posted by duder
Can I just get this straight, I could never say that God doesn't exist. I simply don't know. What I do know is that I should live my life to the best ethical standard I can. Therefore I have nothing to fear.Mate, I fear God. Far more then I fer some clown like Satan. An Angel who seeks to be God? I can't let myself be deceived by him, but I must fear God because He has the power.

To the best "ethical standard" that you can is only your interpretation of right and wrong, and is therefore void. You may as well let footballers make up their own rules, when you should make McDonalds sell half-decent crap instead of the mass-produced indecent cow-****é they serve instead! You could start by banning that awful soft-serve and thickshake fast crap food chains sell and replacing them with dairy, healthy alternatives.

Originally posted by duder
What are you talking about? Most historians are christian??? You've just made that up, it's a lie.I didn't make that up, but maybe I should be more specific: most historians, especially those who study that period (Jesus' life and beyond) are certainly Christian, and as I understand statistically speaking so are most historians.

Most Scientists are atheist. (Einstein wasn't, but there's always an exception to the rule).

Most Christians aren't as religious as I am.

Some Christians are more religious then me!

What's wrong with general statements like that?

Ty

Natty
01-25-2002, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by Deadmeat_X




2. Who rolled away the stone? What stone?

According to the bible after Jesus was nailed to the cross (and doesn't that look like fun children? That's definatly something on my to-do list in the near future.) He was put into some cave thingie, with the boulder placed into the entrance to block it up and 3days later he arose from the dead and someone moved the boulder away and the **** Mary- oooops I mean virgin Mary saw Jesus wandering around like nothing had ever happened. So that's why we got Good Friday and Easter Sunday, Good Friday is when Jesus was crucified on the cross and Sunday is when he arose from the dead. He probably didn't even die in the first place- it was probably a stunt double ala what Bin Laden apperantly does :rolleyes: (note the huge amount of sarcasm)

Pffffft how come Jesus gets to come back from the dead yet my grandfather can't and my old dog can't either. Where's the fairness in that? Just coz he's the son of God, why should he be given special priverlages- if God wants to treat us all fairly then everyone should be arisen from the dead. Tyrell- go tell God that for me will ya?

Tyrell
01-25-2002, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by Natty


According to the bible after Jesus was nailed to the cross (and doesn't that look like fun children? That's definatly something on my to-do list in the near future.) He was put into some cave thingie, with the boulder placed into the entrance to block it up and 3days later he arose from the dead and someone moved the boulder away and the **** Mary- oooops I mean virgin Mary saw Jesus wandering around like nothing had ever happened. So that's why we got Good Friday and Easter Sunday, Good Friday is when Jesus was crucified on the cross and Sunday is when he arose from the dead. He probably didn't even die in the first place- it was probably a stunt double ala what Bin Laden apperantly does :rolleyes: (note the huge amount of sarcasm)

Pffffft how come Jesus gets to come back from the dead yet my grandfather can't and my old dog can't either. Where's the fairness in that? Just coz he's the son of God, why should he be given special priverlages- if God wants to treat us all fairly then everyone should be arisen from the dead. Tyrell- go tell God that for me will ya? We have a good discussion going on here Natty, please don't spoil it.

The resurrection is (in my opinion) more relevant then the crucifixion. Now Jesus died to take the sin of the world with him. And people saw him die and wrote that down and recorded it. But what happened next would change our religion forever.

Jesus returned. And he proved beyond any doubt that his sole is alive, that he is alive, even if his body had died. He proved our God is a living God. If you pulled over to 2 men, one alive and one dead - who would you ask for directions? That's right, Jesus is God, who is a living God, the only living God, the only real God. He spent less then a day back on earth Natty, and he didn't "come back to life" as you put it because he didn't have a body. He would literally appear in the corner of a room and disappear just as quickly. But his wrists and ankles (not hands and feet) were scared where the nails had been driven in because his appearance was that of his body's.

The most important thing to understand is that He is in heaven. He showed us the path to heaven.

Ty

Guybrush122
01-25-2002, 10:30 AM
lets break this down. as Ty said Jesus died and there was a three hour eclipse and then, apparently a storm. so, the storm moved the boulder. and mary went insane with greif (very common) and hallucinated jesus alive...had anyone ELSE seen Jesus it would be a bit different.

how is that rediculous?

because as you say god is merciful. and he loves all his children. but do you believe that he would be so harsh as to eternally punish someone who made ONE mistake....not knowing that god exists. when you are born you are born with so many choices, Judiasm, Christianity, Protestant, Wiccan, Rastafarian etc etc. and somehow god manages to place all of those difficult descisions in front of you without a single hint in which one is right. now if god can do that then i beleive that god has heart enough to let in a good person, regardless of their beliefs.

duder
01-25-2002, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Tyrell
To the best "ethical standard" that you can is only your interpretation of right and wrong, and is therefore void. You may as well let footballers make up their own rules, when you should make McDonalds sell half-decent crap instead of the mass-produced indecent cow-****é they serve instead! You could start by banning that awful soft-serve and thickshake fast crap food chains sell and replacing them with dairy, healthy alternatives.


Our own morals are what we as individuals live our lives by. What are you trying to say we are? Sheep? I am talking about my own personal ethics, what on earth has that got to do with McDonalds or football players? My interpretation of right and wrong defines me as a person, and importantly I understand that different people have different morals, and I shouldn't force my beliefs on others, it should be discussed. THIS IS MY POINT.


Originally posted by Tyrell
I didn't make that up, but maybe I should be more specific: most historians, especially those who study that period (Jesus' life and beyond) are certainly Christian, and as I understand statistically speaking so are most historians.



I find it hard to believe that the majority of historians in Asia are christians. Statistics are notoriously misleading!

brief
01-25-2002, 03:19 PM
Look, this is pointless.

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that debating over a belief/faith never results in anything meaningful, unless you're already of the same faith.

As I've said before (and was put to words more eloquently by Paul), faith is believing in something without the presence of proof.

In a debate, each side must present logical evidence for there to be any resulting concensus, but since faith lacks logical evidence, you will never reach a conclusion. That's not saying that there's absolutely no evidence, just that there is no conclusive evidence. So even if one side was able to present more evidence than the other, it will never convince the other side. What you'll end up with is two sides hating each other's guts.

Rather than trying to win someone over with heated debates, let your own actions speak for your faith.

Natty
01-25-2002, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by Tyrell
We have a good discussion going on here Natty, please don't spoil it.

Ty

I didn't spoil it you moron, I was stating my opinion, what part of the following statement don't you understand?


Everyone has different religions and different beliefs- what gives you the right to tell everyone else that what the feel or think or believe is wrong? Why must you ridicule (sorry it's 8:30am my spelling is crap at this hour of the morning and being jumped on at this sort of hour by 2dogs isnt what I call fun) Anyways as I was saying- so what if people have different opnions to yours? Why should you condem them for what they believe is wrong or right? So you talk to God? Good for you, I'm sure God would rather everyone be happy and stand up for what they believe in regardless of those people believe in him or not

HaggisMcMuffin
01-25-2002, 06:02 PM
Dr. Elden Tyrell: I was just curious about what that title represents? I'm also wondering about what religion you were born into as well as what sect you are today.

Now as for your comments, here are my thoughts.

What makes you so sure that God is real? I'm a Lutheran and I have faith in God, but what makes you so damned sure? Osama Bin Laden has quite a lot of faith in his god too. (Most Muslims aren't as religious as he is. Some Muslims are more religious than him! - sound familiar?) How much knowledge do you even have of these different religions? Aren't many religions strikingly similar?

Earlier you were talking about why the Big Bang and Evolution didn't happen. Here are my thoughts:

Big Bang: I don't know much about this and don't really care, but This great bang wouldn't happen without some higher source of energy. There can't just be nothing, and then all of a sudden something appears. Whether that energy source is God, or Dark Matter, or whatever other theory, there has to be something that caused the creation of the Universe. It's up to people to decide, even though I believe it is God and encourage everyone else to believe the same.

Evolution: Evolution is change over time. I don't care what anyone thinks, THERE IS NO DENYING THIS!!! IT IS AS UNDENYABLE AS MATHEMATICS!! If you accept 1 + 1 to equal 2, you accept evolution. Please research it and you should feel the same. Basically the whole thing about evolution is that the most "fit" survive. This allows them to breed, and make babies that are more "fit" for their environment, while the "un-fit" don't make it. Can't you see how this will lead to the changing of the species? Or do you not believe in DNA and all that mumbo-jumbo? There's alot more to evolution but I would rather you research it youself. I think that this is how God designed the laws of the Universe, so that life would evolve. I would be thrilled to discuss with you why you don't believe in evolution, or more about why I do.

Hoping to hear from ya'!

MtBlanc
01-25-2002, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by brief
If there's one thing I've learned, it's that debating over a belief/faith never results in anything meaningful, unless you're already of the same faith.
...
Rather than trying to win someone over with heated debates, let your own actions speak for your faith.

Did you guys actually read this? Maybe you should take it to heart instead of continuing your little squabbles.

duder
01-25-2002, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by brief
Look, this is pointless.

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that debating over a belief/faith never results in anything meaningful, unless you're already of the same faith.

As I've said before (and was put to words more eloquently by Paul), faith is believing in something without the presence of proof.

In a debate, each side must present logical evidence for there to be any resulting concensus, but since faith lacks logical evidence, you will never reach a conclusion. That's not saying that there's absolutely no evidence, just that there is no conclusive evidence. So even if one side was able to present more evidence than the other, it will never convince the other side. What you'll end up with is two sides hating each other's guts.

Rather than trying to win someone over with heated debates, let your own actions speak for your faith.

I agree with what you say, but we both seem to be keeping a level head, and I know i'm certaintly not going to hate his guts. Like the point I'm trying to make, don't dictate, or jusge people by their beliefs. ;)
Believe me, I don't want any aggression, and Tyrell dosnt seem to either, so it simply boils down to a discussion.
Something other members of this forum do not seem able to do.

Tyrell
01-25-2002, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Guybrush122
lets break this down. as Ty said Jesus died and there was a three hour eclipse and then, apparently a storm. so, the storm moved the boulder. and mary went insane with greif (very common) and hallucinated jesus alive...had anyone ELSE seen Jesus it would be a bit different.That is wrong. The storm happened when Jesus died, while there was the 3 hours of darkness and cleared up. This was before they put him in there.

Originally posted by duder
Statistics are notoriously misleading!I'll agree with that: 2 different groups could take a survey on smoking, smokers and non smokers. I would be surprised if they got the same statistic, because they can choose where to take the survey.

Originally posted by Natty
I didn't spoil it you moron, I was stating my opinion, what part of the following statement don't you understand?I found this message somewhat offensive:

Originally posted by Natty
According to the bible after Jesus was nailed to the cross (and doesn't that look like fun children? That's definatly something on my to-do list in the near future.) He was put into some cave thingie, with the boulder placed into the entrance to block it up and 3days later he arose from the dead and someone moved the boulder away and the **** Mary- oooops I mean virgin Mary saw Jesus wandering around like nothing had ever happened. So that's why we got Good Friday and Easter Sunday, Good Friday is when Jesus was crucified on the cross and Sunday is when he arose from the dead. He probably didn't even die in the first place- it was probably a stunt double ala what Bin Laden apperantly does :rolleyes: (note the huge amount of sarcasm)

Pffffft how come Jesus gets to come back from the dead yet my grandfather can't and my old dog can't either. Where's the fairness in that? Just coz he's the son of God, why should he be given special priverlages- if God wants to treat us all fairly then everyone should be arisen from the dead. Tyrell- go tell God that for me will ya?

Originally posted by HaggisMcMuffin
Dr. Elden Tyrell: I was just curious about what that title represents? I'm also wondering about what religion you were born into as well as what sect you are today.There's a rather good movie called Blade Runner, Elden Tyrell is a character in it. The film is based on the book (and is better then the book) do androids dream of electric sheep? Philip K. D*ick In the novel his name was Elden Rosen.

NOTE TO THE MODERATOR:Your software considers the name "D*ick" to be an inappropriate word and hashes it out, so I'm breaking it now but I suggest you allow the use of this word as you do run the risk of offending someone with that name.

Originally posted by HaggisMcMuffin
Now as for your comments, here are my thoughts.

What makes you so sure that God is real? I'm a Lutheran and I have faith in God, but what makes you so damned sure? Osama Bin Laden has quite a lot of faith in his god too. (Most Muslims aren't as religious as he is. Some Muslims are more religious than him! - sound familiar?) How much knowledge do you even have of these different religions? Aren't many religions strikingly similar?God is alive Haggis. When you can understand that you can respect that a living God can talk and take actions. I'm not familiar with the term "Lutheran"? I'm a general Protestant and I attend both a Baptist and Uniting church to some degree. I was born into Christianity, but that doesn’t mean I always knew God, on that's what the confirmation is for. I confirmed when I was 16.

Originally posted by HaggisMcMuffin
Earlier you were talking about why the Big Bang and Evolution didn't happen. Here are my thoughts:

Big Bang: I don't know much about this and don't really care, but This great bang wouldn't happen without some higher source of energy. There can't just be nothing, and then all of a sudden something appears. Whether that energy source is God, or Dark Matter, or whatever other theory, there has to be something that caused the creation of the Universe. It's up to people to decide, even though I believe it is God and encourage everyone else to believe the same.The Big Bang theory doesn’t state there was once nothing, and that's the problem. Dark matter, anti matter and worm holes are all just scientific theories. There is some evidence for black holes which to me proves that this Universe can't exist forever, nor is it meant to. Also, your mentioning DNA in the next part reminds me: Our sun is (apparently) 4 Billion years old, the entire universe is 12 billion years old. In primordial soup it would (apparently) take 40-100 Billion years to randomly assemble the DNA for the simplest life (bacteria). DNA is very complicated, even for bacterium! Of course scientists usually don't proclaim this "fact".

Originally posted by HaggisMcMuffin
Evolution: Evolution is change over time. I don't care what anyone thinks, THERE IS NO DENYING THIS!!! IT IS AS UNDENYABLE AS MATHEMATICS!! If you accept 1 + 1 to equal 2, you accept evolution. Please research it and you should feel the same. Basically the whole thing about evolution is that the most "fit" survive. This allows them to breed, and make babies that are more "fit" for their environment, while the "un-fit" don't make it. Can't you see how this will lead to the changing of the species? Or do you not believe in DNA and all that mumbo-jumbo? There's alot more to evolution but I would rather you research it youself. I think that this is how God designed the laws of the Universe, so that life would evolve. I would be thrilled to discuss with you why you don't believe in evolution, or more about why I do.I only believe in very limited evolution, I do not believe that fish grew lungs and started walking on the earth like evolutionists. And I do know that genetic mutation can occur, but this should have no effect on evolution anyway.

As you say "only the fit survive", I am actually against the idea or IVF, they have now got as far as genetically screening the eggs/sperm and selecting the best from them in fact they don't even need sperm, I do believe the film Gattaca is a fairly realistic look at what could happen. But besides that I still think it is wrong and selfish to have children through IVF for whatever reason, there's always the good option of adoption if you can't have kids, lesbians shouldn't even exist, etc.

Originally posted by HaggisMcMuffin
Hoping to hear from ya'!Well I try my best.

Originally posted by duder
I agree with what you say, but we both seem to be keeping a level head, and I know i'm certaintly not going to hate his guts. Like the point I'm trying to make, don't dictate, or jusge people by their beliefs. ;)
Believe me, I don't want any aggression, and Tyrell dosnt seem to either, so it simply boils down to a discussion.
Something other members of this forum do not seem able to do.Quite right. This is a peaceful discussion, and there need be no wars here.

Ty

Natty
01-25-2002, 09:02 PM
Tyrell don't take 2different posts of mine and try to pass it off as the same post- that's not fair, and it's considered lying which is a sin, you of all people should know that.

Al-back from the BigWhoop
01-25-2002, 09:29 PM
FIRST OF ALL, I AGREE W BRIEF. WOT IM POSTING HERE IS NOT A FIGHT. ITS MY OPINION IN A PEACEFUL DISCUSSION BETWEEN FRIENDS.

Originally posted by Tyrell
On the 3rd of the 4th 33ad at 3PM (according to Scripture) Jesus died and there was a total 3 hour solar eclipse of the sun.

Did u whatch that true story movie about a french guy that was taken by canibals? He read in the newspaper earlier that there was gonna happen an eclipsis the day he was gonna get eaten. He pretended to control the eclipsis and got away.

Also, true fact: The moment i installed my first videogame, when i was 7, there was a solar eclisis. The second it was over, i had just killed the first boss. Now thats a pretty good coincidence, huh?

Originally posted by Tyrell
2. Anti-Christians generally don't question the history of these events but they just conclude "Jesus was an ordinary man", where the evidence is to the opposite. Believe it or not the stone that was supposed to guard Jesus' body is the least of what needs answering. Tell me who rolled it (it was a huge round thing, but I'm sure you know that), and who took the body and where they took it. And why. If you can actually figure that out then you can prove God doesn’t exist.

did u ever whatch a movie w Antonio Bandeiras called The Body? It´s about an archeologist that found wot could b jesus body, so the whole movie is this fight between the religions. its awfully good, i sujest u would whatch it :)

in my oppinion, i think jesus was so ordinary, that he ddnt even want to form a new religion. Thats wot i think, i think he was just preaching love thy every1, etc, and ppl took it way too seriously (or maybe too seriously in a worng way, or diffrent than Jesus intended to

Originally posted by Tyrell
But you can't and I know you can't. All you need is to find someone's motives and the man power to do it and how they made the guards fall asleep without injuring them. It sounds so simple doesn’t it? Many historians tried to figure it out and simply concluded that God's angels did indeed do it.

Ty


Fact: throughout all history, there has always been men with the only intention to b rich and powerful

Fact: throughout all history, there has always been bribe

Fact: throughout all history, there has always been suckers (not saying u or christians r suckers) and fanatics

Fact: throughout all history, there has always been ppl that didnt want to admit that they were worng


Now put all those together. starting to make sence, huh?


Our sun is (apparently) 4 Billion years old, the entire universe is 12 billion years old. In primordial soup it would (apparently) take 40-100 Billion years to randomly assemble the DNA for the simplest life (bacteria).
im sorry, but the 3 facts stated there r not true

And I do know that genetic mutation can occur, but this should have no effect on evolution anyway.
mutation is wot evolution is all about :eek: :eek: :eek:



AND THIS IS FUNNY, JUST THOUGH I WOULD DROP THIS IN::

RELIGIOUS MAN: Tell me, atheist, how was the universe formed?
ATHEIST: I dont know
RELIGIOUS MAN: Tell me, atheist, where did we all come from?
ATHEIST: I dont know
RELIGIOUS MAN: Tell me, atheist, wots the meaning of life
ATHEIST: I dont know
RELIGIOUS MAN: You atheists are like blind men in a dark room looking for a black cat that isnt there.
ATHEIST: And you religious guys are like blind men in a dark room looking for a black cat that isnt there, and u guys find it!


btw:
Quite right. This is a peaceful discussion, and there need be no wars here.
HELL YEAH!!!!!

HaggisMcMuffin
01-25-2002, 11:27 PM
Tyrell: Hehe, I thought that was like your real name

Anyway, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT A LUTHERAN IS?!! Havn't you ever heard of Martin Luther? And I'm not talking about the black guy, I'm talking about that German Monk that hammered the 95 theses on the church door!! You HAVE TO know who he is!!

Anyway, why would God make dinosaurs just to let them go extinct? Unless it was some Bigger plan that would somehow lead to the evolution of people. Also, what about the cambrian era? There were many weird and diverse species of animals that went extinct. Why would God make these creatures unless it was necessary because of evolution?

Al-back from the BigWhoop
01-26-2002, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by HaggisMcMuffin
Anyway, why would God make dinosaurs just to let them go extinct? Unless it was some Bigger plan that would somehow lead to the evolution of people. Also, what about the cambrian era? There were many weird and diverse species of animals that went extinct. Why would God make these creatures unless it was necessary because of evolution?

I just finished reading this really awsome book by David M. Raup, about evolution, called Extincion: Bad genes or bad luck?. It explains evolution as a bullet field: when there r 6 animals in a bullet field, there is a list of qualities u gotta follow to survive, and chances r that the blindest, stupidest and/or slowest will die, and some will get passed. When u have 4 million animals in a bullet field (the dinossaurs era, or even the PreCambrian) all u need may b luck. Picture now this huge, blind, stupid and slow animal, right in the middle of the bullet field, but surrounded by other animals: hes just not gonna get shot. When in this situation, ANY ramdom fact can change everything. Get the stupid animal in the bullet field: pretend a coconut falls in his head. He dies, and in the fall, he squises a little mamal that, in any other situation, would b the most likely to get past unharmed. There: human beings r history. just like that! My point is: its much more easy for a tornado to go over a car and build a plane, than it was for human beings to evolute. How did we do it? Cause every other animal was schit out luck. just like playing dice, its hard for me to imagine that some1 had forseen or premeditated taht.

Tyrell
01-26-2002, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by Natty
Tyrell don't take 2different posts of mine and try to pass it off as the same post- that's not fair, and it's considered lying which is a sin, you of all people should know that.Sorry, I wasn't trying to pass it off as part of the same post, but I was just showing you why I included the line to keep it peaceful. We don't want a war here, okay?

Originally posted by Al-back from the BigWhoop
in my oppinion, i think jesus was so ordinary, that he ddnt even want to form a new religion. Thats wot i think, i think he was just preaching love thy every1, etc, and ppl took it way too seriously (or maybe too seriously in a worng way, or diffrent than Jesus intended toSo THAT explains why he claimed, and proved he was the Son of God? And I don't like to comment on spelling, but yours is exceptionally poor.

Also what do you mean my facts are wrong? Here's the results of 2 minutes of research on Google:

Despite great efforts during recent years, the various estimates of this basic number have resulted in rather diverse values. When derived from current cosmological models, it depends on a number of theoretical assumptions that are not very well constrained by the incomplete available observational data. At present, a value in the range of 10-16 billion years is considered most likely.
http://www.eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-2001/pr-02-01.html

Age of the earth "about 4.6 billion", see http://members.ozemail.com.au/~sjdando/earthage.htm

"It's impossible to believe that a 1,000 [unit] string of useful information was assembled and just laid down intact"
http://www.princeton.edu/~lfl/washpost.htmlAs you know, I agree with that logic. Even if it was assembled, what could it do in primordial soup?

Originally posted by HaggisMcMuffin
Tyrell: Hehe, I thought that was like your real namehahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Okay I'm over it :)

Originally posted by HaggisMcMuffin
Anyway, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT A LUTHERAN IS?!! Havn't you ever heard of Martin Luther? And I'm not talking about the black guy, I'm talking about that German Monk that hammered the 95 theses on the church door!! You HAVE TO know who he is!!Martin Luther King, yes of course I know who he is now you mention his name! No need to get angry, we still worship the same God don't we? And I respect Monks very much, and I can see why they lead their life like that, I'm very much like them except that I have a girlfriend, however should she fall through I won't be "on the lookout" for another :).

Originally posted by HaggisMcMuffin
Anyway, why would God make dinosaurs just to let them go extinct? Unless it was some Bigger plan that would somehow lead to the evolution of people. Also, what about the cambrian era? There were many weird and diverse species of animals that went extinct. Why would God make these creatures unless it was necessary because of evolution?Well, that I can't answer except to say that I don't believe it holds much relevance today.

Ty

Mek
01-26-2002, 05:25 AM
One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs, and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

When tweetle beetles battle / with their paddles in a puddle / and the puddle's in a bottle on a poodle eating noodles / is that called a tweetle beetle poodle noodle puddle bottle paddle battle?

Tell me, since I'm setting up my new website (as I said, DigitalRice can hardly keep me from realising my dream) I discovered a rather cool error page, when (if ever) I gain access to the .htaccess file I will use it. Here it is:

http://aractus.marhost.com/errors/notfound.htm

Note: this is only a temp site right now since I'm currently writing it, and the link at the bottom won't take you anywhere yet, so I suppose you should try http://aractus.marhost.com

=MEK=

PS: I don't think I deserved to be banned and would like to be welcomed back to this community by having my original account name Meksilon unbanned. I do not hate gays, which I've said over and over, you didn't listen. I'm simply expressing here what is right and wrong according to God's word and therefore expressing my disappointment in society.

Natty
01-26-2002, 07:10 AM
Fine- I don't mind if you come back, but only and if only we stop this arguing about religion and you accept the fact that yes I maybe catholic but it doesn't mean I have to agree with every aspect of the religion, also, just because we all have different opinions on religion or believe in different religions it doesn't mean we are wrong and you are right or you are wrong and we are right.

Metallus
01-26-2002, 07:19 AM
I've unbanned your old name for now.

Meksilon
01-26-2002, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by Metallus
I've unbanned your old name for now.Yes, thankyou. I realised before reading this but it took me 5 mins to work out how to log off, in the end I cleard my tempory internet files and cookies and returned!

=mek=

Al-back from the BigWhoop
01-26-2002, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by Tyrell
So THAT explains why he claimed, and proved he was the Son of God?

did he? there r a lot of versions of Jesus life, and the 1 i watched, he ddnt

Originally posted by Tyrell
And I don't like to comment on spelling, but yours is exceptionally poor.

wot part of my post ddnt u understand?

AL-B´S KEY FOR DUMMIES:
every1=everyone ([sardcasm]OH, MY GOD!!!!! :p)
wot=what ( :freakout: )
oppinion=opinion ( :rolleyes: )
ddnt=didn´t ( :confused: )
diffrent=different ( :nut: )
anything else that u considered impossible to understand? :tongue:

Originally posted by Tyrell
Also what do you mean my facts are wrong? Here's the results of 2 minutes of research on Google: [/B]

ok, here is the result of 2 seconds of research on google: The thunders are a chemical reaction between water and oxigen.
And here is the result of 2 hours of research on google: The thunders are a chemical reaction between water and oxigen.

go search in google “2+2=3” . 1 of the sites ur gonna find is in portuguese, so im gonna give u a summary: it’s a 8 pages long essay proving that 2+2=3, with just logic and facts. If u don’t take care, ur gonna get actually convinced that 2+2=3 by reading that, AND IM SERIOUS!
Also in google, u can find stuff like “Hittler rules” or “Here is a picture proving that god exists” or even the turist guy picture in the building. Its pretty convincing, if u don’t know anything about the building, the area surrounding WTC, and phisics 101!

My point is: do not take any fact for granted!


Originally posted by Tyrell
Even if it was assembled, what could it do in primordial soup? [/B]

Sorry, I don’t understand this sentence. Wot is “it”?




Originally posted by Tyrell
Well, that I can't answer except to say that I don't believe it holds much relevance today.

and wot is relevant for u today?


Originally posted by Tyrell
Tell me who rolled it (it was a huge round thing, but I'm sure you know that), and who took the body and where they took it. And why. If you can actually figure that out then you can prove God doesn’t exist.

no comments on the fact that I figured it out?

HaggisMcMuffin
01-26-2002, 12:47 PM
Tyrell: Martin Luther King Jr. was a black guy in America who was for equality between the races and all that stuff.
Martin Luther (NOT King Jr), was not black, and died long before Martin Luther King Jr. was born. He thought the church was corrupt and stated why he thought that by posting 95 theses on the church door. He is often credited for starting the reformation.

Lutherans today are NOT monks, even though Martin Luther was. Lutherans are alot like Catholics, except for several areas. Lutherans believe that to go to heaven, only faith is required. We also dont give a F*** what the pope thinks, or any other "doctor of the church" such as Augustine or others. Only Scripture is what we care about. Also, clergy and stuff can get married. The only reason why Catholic priests and stuff aren't allowed to get married is because of political reasons hella long ago.

I AM NOT A MONK!!

Ok, now that that is cleared up:

Yeah I couldn't disagree with any of your statistics except for the one about how long it would take for dna to randomly construct itself. I havn't seen any dates like that anywhere. It seems possible to me because 4.5 billion years is an incredibly long time. Dna didn't just all of a sudden appear out of no where. The Basic Chemicals of life (proteins, lipids, carbohydrates, and nucleic acids) being together was the first step towards real life. Very Simple organisms arose from those and life progressed one step at a time. Short chains of RNA can be made to form in water spontaneously, and RNA works with DNA... I dunno somthing like that. Get some Genetisist to explain it =) Anyway, the idea is that life was incredibly simple, and progressed through the Natural phenomena of selection.


Al: Not just somebody premeditated that, God did. IF your a Christian, you believe God is all powerfull and all knowing. It should be easy for someone who created the entire Universe to figure out something like how to get humans to evolve.

Al-back from the BigWhoop
01-26-2002, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by HaggisMcMuffin
Al: Not just somebody premeditated that, God did. IF your a Christian, you believe God is all powerfull and all knowing. It should be easy for someone who created the entire Universe to figure out something like how to get humans to evolve.

if it was only the law of the most fit, wot ur saying would make some sence, but when setting up a world so ramdom as that... In that last scenario, even if god did take that rock out of the big and stupid animal away, there would be more 057q465019346589164398265092865 simultanious tasks for god to accomplish just to get the humans to evolve. and then again, y would he want the HUMANS to evolve? y would he want the world to evolve like it did? u see the problem w the ramdomness scenario? its not only impossible to act over it, but it is also pointless!

ps- i was catholic, but i became atheist when i was 12 or 13, by reading books, and asking myself questions like that.



RELIGIOUS JOKE OF THE POST:

4 men in a plane discussing religion. 1 hindu, 1 muslim, 1 catholic, and 1 atheist. Suddenly, the plane breaks, and there r no parachutes (sp?) in it.
CATHOLIC: Ok, so this is wot were gonna do: we jump of the plane, and each 1 prays for their god. The 1 that gets saved knows the true religion.
The Muslim jumps and dies.
The Hindy jumps and dies.
CATHOLIC: I know i had the true religion!!!!
He prepares to jump, all confident, when the atheist stops him. ATHEIST: Wait a minute, wot about me? I dont believe in any god.
CATHOLIC: Well, u can stay on the plane, u know ur gonna die anyways...
He jumps. When he is falling he sees god catching the plane and putting it safe in the ground.
CATHOLIC: Hey, I am the catholic!!!
GOD: I know, but in times like these, its the marketing that counts.