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View Full Version : Disappear when you die?


Darth_Lando
02-04-2002, 06:31 PM
This is just for kicks.

But I think it would be cool if Jedi disappear when they are killed in MP. As for the Sith... who cares. :p :) :D :D

And also in SP once Kyle becomes a Jedi again.

Not a biggie, just would be a nice cosmetic touch.

Of course I read that no fan suggestions have been taken in making this game.

/time to go start modding

OnlyOneCanoli
02-04-2002, 06:34 PM
That's not a bad idea. And if it isn't in the game, I'm sure the editing community could make something like that.

Moses
02-04-2002, 07:21 PM
Yeh that's cool. Especially in multiplayer Jedi fights it would be a really nice touch.

Dan12R
02-04-2002, 07:57 PM
There's one problem with that. not always does a jedi dissapear when they die. For example, what about Qui-Gon in Ep. 1? I thought that Vader had gone to the good side in Jedi before he died. It seems to me that the only time that jedi dissapear when they die is if they didn't die in a fight (Vader's time was set when he lost to Luke). Obi-Wan and Yoda were not fighting when they died (Obi-Wan wasn't fighting when Vader sliced him for those questioning that). So I think it would be bad if the caracters dissapeared when they died.

SotE_Xizor1
02-04-2002, 08:54 PM
Ahem! The only time Jedi disappear, and this is the truth, is when they're expecting to die. Obi Wan knew he was going to die, Yoda knew he was, Qui Gon DIDN'T, and Vader knew he was going to die.

General Theros
02-04-2002, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by SotE_Xizor1
Ahem! The only time Jedi disappear, and this is the truth, is when they're expecting to die. Obi Wan knew he was going to die, Yoda knew he was, Qui Gon DIDN'T, and Vader knew he was going to die.

Actually Vader did not disapper. I believe the reason that some Jedi disappear and some don't is that the ones that disappear are in a state of meditation when it happens......think about it. ;)

General Theros

Dorvo
02-04-2002, 09:40 PM
But after Qui-Gon was talking with Obi-Wan after Maul fell apart, he knew he was going to die. The spirits of the deceased only appeared when they felt they needed to. Maybe Qui-Gon felt he didn't have to come back.

And the Sith DO exist in spirit after they die, otherwise, Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma wouldn't have ever been turned to the Dark Side by the spirit of Freedon Nadd.

I'd love to see how the deceased disappear in multiplayer.

Sounds Risky
02-04-2002, 10:46 PM
I hear Sith explode when they die. Maybe they'll do that in multiplayer.

Officially, Vader disappeared though.

Eets
02-04-2002, 11:01 PM
Dissappearing is synonymous with reappearing after the death :D I didn't see Qui-Gon telling Obi-Wan to "Use the force!"

SL_Ki-Adi-Mundi
02-04-2002, 11:07 PM
Qui-Gon's death and lack of dissapperance will be explained in Episode 3. If not 2, but I'm pretty sure that it's 3. Anyone else hear this?

Lord_FinnSon
02-04-2002, 11:20 PM
Lucas has promised to explain this subject until whole saga is finished(so don't trust in those books completely). I remember that he said earlier something like Obi-Wan and Yoda knew how to come one with the Force without losing themself completely and that's why they disappear. Now, we already know that Qui-Gon didn't disappear and his body had to be burned in a funeral pyre, but RotJ didn't actually show Anakin after his dead, so we don't know for sure did he disappear or not; at least Luke burned symbolistically Vader's armour. However, because Anakin appeared in a ghost form at the end, he might have knew the "trick". ;)

SL_Ki-Adi-Mundi
02-04-2002, 11:26 PM
Maybe for the 'trick' to work, the dieing Jedi, who knows that he is about to die, which Anakin/Vader did know he was going to do, has to be bonded or something to another Jedi who is close to them when they die or something. Maybe that's why only Luke could see Yoda, Ben, and Anakin at the end of RotJ and Leia couldn't, though she wasn't too sensative to the Force at the time, so that might have had some influence as well. But I think it's the former.

Sounds Risky
02-05-2002, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by Lord_FinnSon
RotJ didn't actually show Anakin after his dead, so we don't know for sure did he disappear or not; at least Luke burned symbolistically Vader's armour.

Taken from StarWars.com
As he lay dying, Vader ceased to be. Anakin Skywalker returned. He asked his son to remove the cumbersome, fearsome mask that had concealed his face for decades. His mask and life support removed, Anakin looked upon Luke for the first and last time. He then died, his body disappearing into the light side of the Force. Luke burned the dark armor that had encased Anakin's crippled body in a quiet funeral pyre on the forest moon of Endor that night.

Like I said, officially, he did disappear.

JPMaximilian
02-05-2002, 06:10 PM
Good point OCH. Hey, where is that Avatar from and what does OCH stand for?

Kestral
02-05-2002, 06:54 PM
In one of the novels, Luke's perception says that he remembered watching all three of his quintessential 'teachers' disappear - Skywalker was a teacher because he helped with the whole darkside part.. :p - and I distinctly remember 'and the empty shell which had held Anakin Skywalker burned on the pyre' or something to that effect.

Only Jedi who expect death disappear, or 'will' themselves to the next ethereal plane, if you will. :p

Moses
02-05-2002, 07:06 PM
Starwars.com said it will be explained later in the movies. I wouldn't tell other people what is what at this point, but speculating is fine. Not to be mean, but if you are wrong you will feel stupid when the answer is revealed. ;)

As for me, I think that a Jedi has to will himself to escape the body. In the books it describes Jedi "pushing out their mind" right before death. If the mind is not with the body at the end of life, the body dissapears. That's what I think. Qui-Gon as we know, was a fan of the living Force. Maybe he wanted to live his life until the end...Actually I don't know about the whole Qui-Gon thing. It was worth a shot. :rolleyes:

Krayt Tion
02-05-2002, 07:08 PM
Technically, every player in multiplayer will disappear when they are killed; it's called respawning. :D

I can say with some confidence that corpses will not remain in the game very long after a player is killed in multiplayer. In the case of a Jedi/Dark Jedi, whatever artifacts she may or not leave behind in the event of her death will not remain there for long.

I won't tackle the legitimacy of Jedi disappearing but I see another possible approach.

Anyone who as played the Medic if RTCW has arrived on the scene just as your teammate gives up hope and gradually begins to sink into the floor, eventually fading away. I found that all very graceful and dramatic. If nothing can be left behind for Jedi, I propose their corpses take longer to fade away than your average dead Fett.

Sounds Risky
02-05-2002, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by JPMaximilian
Hey, where is that Avatar from and what does OCH stand for?

That avatar comes from the great game Halo. OCH is just a random string of letters I use.

Myxale
02-06-2002, 10:22 AM
I would be cool in the MP if the Jedi disapear...and the sith expoding like the Imperator... :)

lol

Darth Lunatic
02-06-2002, 11:20 AM
Fact is no one knows why some Jedi disappear. Yes there are some good theories, but we will never know the answer for certain until GL reveals it in the new movies. No doubt, since GL is making the new star wars movies for 12 year olds, it will be a very simple explanation.

Rogue15
02-06-2002, 12:15 PM
Why did Jerec disappear in Jedi Knight? He turns into one of those firefly things...and since Kyle frees them...hmmm....

Moses
02-06-2002, 12:18 PM
No wonder you have 5000 posts Rogue15. You post everything 4 times. ;)

Darth Lunatic
02-06-2002, 12:21 PM
Yeah. Also how did the power of thousands of Jedi get trapped in that place? Was that ever explained? Or is it supposed to be an ancient mystery.

Lord_FinnSon
02-06-2002, 12:36 PM
No doubt, since GL is making the new star wars movies for 12 year olds, it will be a very simple explanation.
More likely for 12-99 year olds, but simple explanation is the best explanation for all age groups. You must remember that Star Wars isn't REAL scifi movie, so Lucas doesn't have to give too complex explanation which would be approved by scientists as well. It's more like a fantasy, a modern day fairy tale which happens in colourful, imaginative galaxy enriched with scifi imagery, so it also draws on influences from religious questions; people can disappear and reappear when they simply believe in some supernatural God like energy field, and pure evil takes human form. As Yoda sayed to Luke: "Luminous beings are we... (binches Luke's shoulder) ...not this crude matter." :yoda: So, I repeat what we already know: if body disappears, that Jedi will retain his old form as a ghost, but if he leaves his body behind, he becomes one with the Force completely and can never appear again. I don't know exactly what kind of "soul" Lucas envisioned to be, but I think JK comes close to it, when all those captured Jedi souls are free: a simple light form(firefly). BTW, I like the idea of exploding Sith bodies, because that also shows visually an aggressive power of the Dark Side which bursts out when its lackey dies; much like what happened to Emperor when Vader hurled him into shaft. EDIT: I don't know about Jerec though. Maybe LEC didn't do their homework well enough.

Neonix
02-06-2002, 01:19 PM
As Yoda sayed to Luke: "Luminous beings are we... (binches Luke's shoulder) ...not this crude matter." So, I repeat what we already know: if body disappears, that Jedi will retain his old form as a ghost, but if he leaves his body behind, he becomes one with the Force completely and can never appear again.

Well first off i agree with you on this, because at this point it seems the most logic explanation to me.

But before that someone had stated about anchoring to someone, but i dont think thats entirely true, becuase how could Anakin anchor himsel at Leia in the end of RotJ he wasn't there and he didn't know where she was either.

So i think that theory goes kapoo!

Well those were just my two cents.

CaptainRAVE
02-06-2002, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by Moses
No wonder you have 5000 posts Rogue15. You post everything 4 times. ;)

He could have at least gone back and deleted three of them :rolleyes:

Darth_Lando
02-06-2002, 02:59 PM
Aww, don't be too hard on Rogue_15, he is a fine addition to our forum community. :D :D

Ushgarak
02-06-2002, 04:20 PM
Gee, I don't beleive that some people thought they had the final, definitive answer on this!

The actual mechanics of disappearing into the Force will be, to some extent, examined in future films, as some have said.

What a lot of you may not know is that disappearing into the Force is NOT a common trait! In fact, the three people who do it in the original films are the ONLY people to do so!

It's a completely new trick tied into the plot of the films. That's why Obi-Wan says to Vader 'Strike me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine'.

It is, in many ways, Obi-Wan's 'secret weapon'

So you shouldn't ask why did Qui-Gon not disappear- because Jedi do not, as a rule, diappear when killed! The question is why DID the three in the original films disappear?

Well, the three in the originals if you believe the website, anyway. And as Anakin appeared as a ghost afterwards the idea he disappeared in his suit seems likely.

dazilla
02-06-2002, 06:40 PM
Two people disappeared. Vader did not, yet he still appeared as a spirit. I know that most of his body is mechanical, if I'm not misinformed. But, when he died with his mask off he did not disappear. I heard an argument that this technique was a special thing that Yoda taught Obi-Wan. That's why both of them disappeared, and nobody else, so far.

JPMaximilian
02-06-2002, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by Neonix


becuase how could Anakin anchor himsel at Leia in the end of RotJ he wasn't there and he didn't know where she was either.

So i think that theory goes kapoo!



If I understand correctly he didn't anchor himself to Leia which is why she couldn't see him at the ewok celebration at the end of ROTJ. I don't think its a matter of conscious anchoring, its more of Obi-Wan had more to tell Luke so he needed to be able to communicate with him somehow. I don't know, who does?

Sounds Risky
02-07-2002, 01:56 AM
Originally posted by dazilla
Two people disappeared. Vader did not, yet he still appeared as a spirit.

. . . Ok . . . I'll post this again.

Taken from StarWars.com
As he lay dying, Vader ceased to be. Anakin Skywalker returned. He asked his son to remove the cumbersome, fearsome mask that had concealed his face for decades. His mask and life support removed, Anakin looked upon Luke for the first and last time. He then died, his body disappearing into the light side of the Force. Luke burned the dark armor that had encased Anakin's crippled body in a quiet funeral pyre on the forest moon of Endor that night.

Worms
02-07-2002, 03:27 AM
Well, they all do disappear! Vader did, they all did, Luke is only burning Vader's life support suit and mask... I think it's because they are powerful and magical, but if you read the Star Wars books, Dorsk 81 (when dead) doesn't disappear...

simo
02-07-2002, 06:18 AM
ive never thought of it this way, but consider this...jedi only dissappear because they have FULFILLED THEIR PURPOSE
think about it. obi-wan knew his sacrifice had allowed luke and leia to escape the death star. yoda had trained luke and seen him return from battle with vader, effectively making him a jedi. both their destinies were fulfilled and they could thus proceed to that weird place where everythin is transparent ;)
qui-gon on the other hand haddent defeated darth maul, and this fact is shown by his body remaining and not dissapearing
it all makes strange sense now......:eek:

Darth_Lando
02-07-2002, 10:48 AM
Hmmm perhaps I may be reading too much into this but let me perhaps shed a new theory:

We know how Annikan is thought by Qui Gon to be "the one to bring balance to the force" but of course he becomes Darth Vader and his son Luke is the one to bring the Empire down and Darth Vader dies. So one would think Annikan is out of the picture.

But could it be that episodes 7-9 have to do with the "bringing of balance to the force" and the spirit of Annikan Skywalker has something to do with it? After all the Star Wars story really doesn't belong to Luke Skywalker.. it belongs to Annikan Skywalker.

It is hard to say since the meaning of why some Jedi disappear hasn't been disclosed.

But I am sure I am way off. :D

Rogue15
02-07-2002, 11:17 AM
whoa, that was NOT my fault. hehehe about the triple posting...the forums went down RIGHT as i clicked that, and i couldn't tell if they were down, and sometimes my net messes up and i gotta click twice for the 'webpage opened' or something like that....I'll delete those right away.

btw, i think vader disappeared cause 'he fulfilled the prophecy and brought balance to the force'.

Lord_FinnSon
02-07-2002, 11:45 AM
But could it be that episodes 7-9 have to do with the "bringing of balance to the force" and the spirit of Annikan Skywalker has something to do with it? After all the Star Wars story really doesn't belong to Luke Skywalker.. it belongs to Annikan Skywalker.
Actually, Star Wars tells the story of Skywalker family, but of course Anakin seems to be center character even though we don't see these adventures from his point of view. I remember Lucas saying that episodes 7-9 had nothing to do with Skywalkers or at least Luke was not going to be in those; R2-D2 and C-3PO were only returning characters. I guess we'll never know, because Lucas said that these six episodes are enough for him and I agree with him: after they have been finished and we see all of them on DVD, they tell the story of rise and fall of the Empire and how "family" Skywalker travelled through those decades. How would you still continue that story(forget the books)?

Now, back to actual topic. Because we haven't seen AotC or Episode III yet, we don't know for sure were Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin only ones, who knew this "trick". It might have been "secret" that Yoda keeped with him over all those 800 years he trained Jedi and perhaps revealed it only to all Jedi Coucil members and to Obi-Wan, who passed it on to Anakin. I mean, when all those Jedis will die eventually, we might see few of them disappearing and appearing as a ghost to give advice; I have an image in my mind where Mace Windu appears as a ghost to Yoda and warns him. It's important "little" part of the saga, because without that knowledge Obi-Wan wouldn't have never appeared to Luke and adviced him to go Dagobah and meet Yoda. Jedi traditions would have died completely without it.

Rogue15
02-07-2002, 02:51 PM
Then how did Rahn and Jerec disappear? I'm mostly confused how Jerec disappeared...there's GOTTA be a cannonical way to explain it.

Ushgarak
02-07-2002, 02:57 PM
No, there is no canonical way of explaining it; it happening in EU games is an error.

If it had ever happened in history before then Anakin would have been told of it in his training. If any of the Council knew it, Vader would have seen them disappear when killed.

This IS a specific plot thing related to the three Jedi who die in the original films. It happens to no-one else, barring some massive approaching plot reveal that is kept secret from Anakin. And it has not yet been explained.

Lots of Jedi will die in the next film and NONE of them will disappear!

Rogue15
02-07-2002, 04:05 PM
I'm thinking it has something to do with the plot in Jedi: Outcast...

Kurgan
02-07-2002, 11:40 PM
Maybe really powerful light jedi could slowly fade away when they die, and really powerful dark jedi/sith could explode in a flash of blue energy (like the Emperor in ROTJ)?

Otherwise, the deaths in JK were pretty good (although we need some more varied death animations and dismemberment!).