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JPMaximilian
02-05-2002, 05:14 PM
I found this snippit today from the Fragoff.net website:

"In old pictures of storm troopers losing limbs I saw blood, in recent shots I didn't see any blood. Is the blood an option or has it been removed from the game completely?

There will be no blood in Jedi Outcast. The blood in the early screenshots was there because we were moving the GHOUL2 modeling system over from Soldier of Fortune II."

This might be old news to some of you, but what do you think about the no blood policy of LucasArts and No Blood In Jedi Outcast?

Sithcloak
02-05-2002, 05:38 PM
It will make my parents not regret buying the game ... as much. And i don't like blood.

Sithcloak

TrUeFoRcE
02-05-2002, 05:44 PM
blood better be in there....it adds realism to all games

GUNNER
02-05-2002, 05:59 PM
There wasn't blood in the other jedi knight games so why start now.

They might get a break on the rating if they don't show blood, better rating means more youngsters will buy it which in turn means more cash..

SL_Ki-Adi-Mundi
02-05-2002, 06:02 PM
The blood can be a nice effect in some games (Medal of Honor anyone?), but's just not an SW thing.

Graphicsgod
02-05-2002, 06:07 PM
I don't see the reason for completely no blood. But a little never hurt anybody ;). I know if it's turned off, I'll just have to turn it on again (*cough* /cg_gibs *cough*) in the console :D.

Moses
02-05-2002, 06:09 PM
The only time I recall blood in the movies was on Luke's face during the Cloud City fight and a brief shower when Darth Maul got sliced through. I don't think it takes away from the game if blood isn't in there.

GUNNER
02-05-2002, 06:32 PM
Maybe it has to do with the fact that LA is kind of a family oriented place. SW is something the family can enjoy,there might be violence but the lack of blood tames it down some what.

That's my guess anyways.

Bio Warrior
02-05-2002, 07:12 PM
well if there was blood its not like theres any gore

Uber_Saber
02-05-2002, 07:34 PM
There was blood when Obi-wan sliced the alien's arm off in the Cantina in ANH. Besides, I don't like gory games. The no blood thing is for younger players, or those of us who don't like blood and gore.

TSM_FETT-fragof
02-05-2002, 07:41 PM
i personally dont need blood in every game i play. jk2 will be one of them that i dont need blood to enjoy the full game. and for all you fans of blood and want blood in jk2, are you really looking for the blood in the game? i mean i myself am more concered with how the game plays and how much i enjoy it. so im not dissapointed that the blood isnt in the game

Bio Warrior
02-05-2002, 08:12 PM
even if there isnt blood im sure somebody will make a mod that will add blood

Dan12R
02-05-2002, 08:30 PM
Is blood really that important? I'd perfer it without. If I kill the enemy, seeing him fall to the ground is good enough. I'm not a big fan of bloody games. It would drive me insane if every game I played had blood. So I'm in favor of no blood. However, I did enjoy being able to slice the arms off the Storm Troopers in JK. It was an interesting addition.

GUNNER
02-05-2002, 08:32 PM
I can imagine that when this baby finally hits the shelves the last thing most of us will be worrying about is wether or not there is blood.

Just give us the game.:rolleyes:

[TE]DarthBob
02-05-2002, 11:37 PM
It would be stupid to have blood in this game. I quit playing Doom as I reach the later levels when the stupid blood, torso's and pentagrams became more obvious. What an asinine distraction from a great gaming engine. I gave Quake a quick demo but the same lame blood, pentagons where still there with Zombies added in bad taste. So I threw in the towel and voweled never to play a FPS game again. I then I heard about a game from Raven called Star Trek Voyager Elite Force. Basically the multi player matches take place in a holoroom, and when you are fragged, you're teleported out and back in. I hope the basic principle is carried over in JK2. Um, not the Holomatch thing as that would cause trouble with you SW die hards. :)

If you want blood, go find any of the other FPSs that support it. I like to think we are above that.

Redwing
02-06-2002, 12:07 AM
So we're above real life? lol

I know what you mean though. ;)

GUNNER
02-06-2002, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by [TE]DarthBob


If you want blood, go find any of the other FPSs that support it. I like to think we are above that.


I hear ya Darth. We should want to play it because it's SW and a new adventure in the Kyle stories, not because we want to see blood splashing out of someones head.

Lt. Durden
02-06-2002, 07:35 AM
When you slice through someone with a lightsaber, the heat from the blade cauterizes (sp?) the wound, hence why there is no blood, only smoke (I.E- the little smoke puffs when you chop off a stormtroopers arm in JK, or the fact that lukes hand was cut off blood free {convenient for lucas too}). Lasers do the same thing mostly (smoky hole where guards were shot in Star Wars during the jailbreak scene).

Darth Lunatic
02-06-2002, 08:23 AM
A game like Medal Of Honor needs blood. That game was aiming for a more realistic approach to presenting WW2, yet they occluded blood. Medal Of Honor is loosely based on the reality of War and blood is a big part of war.

Jedi Knight never had blood, it never needed blood. It won't bother me at all in Jk2 that there is no blood. There is rarely blood in Star Wars movies so i see no reason to put it in the game.

Could people please stop associating realism with Star Wars.

Com Raven
02-06-2002, 08:33 AM
JK definitely needs no blood, and somebody said it would add to realism....

Sure, it would be as realistic as aliens, luightsabers, and so on....

Bull....

And MoH is realistic enough, even with no blood.....

Screaming, explosions, dirt fontaines, all these things are more realistic to me than blood and gore...

Myxale
02-06-2002, 09:01 AM
I would like to see some Blood if i cut limbs ....

But Bloodpools were a bit to extreme !! :)

#sigh# the movie is comin soon !!!:ewok:

thrEEpaGe
02-06-2002, 10:34 AM
from an actual hardcore fps gamer, i want blood =)

multiplayer is just soo much more fun =)

Darth Lunatic
02-06-2002, 10:45 AM
You want blood? You gotta get Soldier of Fortune 2 then.

I wouldnt be surpirsed if that gets banned here in Australia. They banned Grand Theft Auto 3. Is it true games cannot have an R rating here?

thrEEpaGe
02-06-2002, 10:48 AM
nahh....i went for jk for the weapons, unique gameplay, force powers and such...i wanted blood for jk1 as well, but that was way back in 97..heh...

i want jk2 mainly b/c of gameplay, but i would like blood..it just makes it better....i dont care how well it sells this is just what i would like in a game heh.....

ill probably be switching b/w it and ut2 anyway, once i get my geforce4 ti4400 (or 4200 if i cant get nuff money) heh...

ZeroXcape
02-06-2002, 10:49 AM
Anyone working with the Star Wars license knows that blood/violence doesn't mix with the SW universe. Sure people lose body parts and sometimes get stabbed with a saber... but everything is kept PG-13. I really don't think it'll take away from the game because a good percentage of people we fight are mechanical anyway.

Besides... when I want gore.. I'll load SOFII :)

thrEEpaGe
02-06-2002, 10:55 AM
i know it probably wont have gore in the released version =)

thats not going to detract from the value for me.....

its just an option thats all...im all for options...

Darth Lunatic
02-06-2002, 10:58 AM
Yes, Lucas conveniently thought up evil droid robots as the main enemy in Episode 1. You can tear them to pieces in the most violent fashion, and the movie can still hold a PG-13 rating.

Theres apparently some rule about seeing red blood in movies. In LOTR:FOTR we see orcs cut up and ripped into pieces by Aragorn, Boromir, Legolas and Gimli. Yet the blood from orcs is like a black goo, so you can show as much as you like without running into any ratings problems.

I heard thats what Doom on the gameboy advance is like, i may be wrong. Any monster you shoot has green blood, so the game rating can stay down. A wider range of people can buy it (kids) so the developers make more money.

Moses
02-06-2002, 11:33 AM
You're right Lunatic, that is kind of weird. Red blood is just too scary, I guess...:rolleyes:

And a little FYI, all the Star Wars movies were rated PG, not PG-13

Jyt-Pon Dai'el
02-06-2002, 12:09 PM
I believe that, above all, JK II should stick as closely as possible to the spirit of the films. Having excessive amounts of gore, or even moderate amounts of blood, when you shoot or slice an enemy would certainly detract from this. However, if we are going to stick to the spirit of the films, an occational splash of red is appropriate.

One instance someone already mentioned was in a scene in Ep. 4 where Obi-Wan sliced off an arm, and it rested in a pool of blood. Another one was (again with my boy Obi!) where Darth Maul got cut in half. A fine mist of blood sprays up from the wound. I think there may be some more scenes with the Red, Red Krovvy, but obviously nothing too Horrorshow. ;)

Having absolutely no blood in JK is fine with me. I totally understand LEC's position on the continuity issue with the films. Plus, the game will probably sell alot better because of it, meaning continuing support and add-ons from LEC/Raven.

Once I play through the SP game, I may want to try out one of the many inevitable blood mods that will come out. I really hope that one comes out that represents the films well, like what I mentioned earlier. Maybe with something like giving every dismemberment a 15-20% chance of producing blood. Or, even better, maybe GHOUL 2 can detect how "clean" of a cut it was, and produce blood accordingly.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I love the Star Wars universe the way it is. I'll wait for Soldier of Fortune II to fullfill my Ultra-Violent fantasies!

CaptainRAVE
02-06-2002, 12:15 PM
Gore is not always necessary in games, and in JK2 will make very little difference. When im playing Max Payne I still dont notice the blood even with patches that include increased gore.

I just cant imagine blood and gore in a Star Wars game.

Justus
02-06-2002, 12:18 PM
Blood doesn't really make a game better. And we didn't have blood in Dark Forces or Jedi Knight, so I don't see why they should change that now. It's fine by me if they don't have it in there. Some games blood is needed, but I don't think it is really neccessary in a game series like Dark Forces/Jedi Knight. Usually I get into the game so much that I don't even notice the lack of blood anyway, so it's no big deal.

thrEEpaGe
02-06-2002, 12:21 PM
bah...personally, i think that jk2 will be fine w/o blood, but it will be much better if it has it....not necessarily as much as other games such as doom or quake or ut or other normal fps games, but some blood wouldnt invalidate its teen rating (i know jk2 would bomb if it had a M rating, especially with star wars relatively light hearted story line....)

so for it to be teen rated, it can have some blood, but not much

Each product is rated by three independent, trained raters. The raters represent a wide range of backgrounds, races, and ages and have no ties to the interactive entertainment software industry. Raters include retired school principals, parents, professionals, and other individuals from all walks of life.

because of the ESRB conservative ratings (i laugh at you if you think this is wrong), jk2 will have little blood...you can count on that =)

and since kyle katarn is a human (along with ALL stormtroopers), they cant just change the color of the blood...

so, no blood for jk2.......i guess ill just play ut2 for a better game overall and more gore =)

Agen
02-06-2002, 01:00 PM
Young people will buy it more if there's some blood, that's obvious. it's the "Cool" factor

Neonix
02-06-2002, 01:10 PM
Well to be honest, JK2 should not have blood because, it has been said a thousand times by now (:o ) it takes the spirit away.

Now about PG ratings and stuff i don't know how it is in the US, but here in holland its like a 10 year old kid wants to buy SOFII dont know what its rated, but f.e. its rated 18 years and older, he gets it they dont ask for ID's or somin.

just an ex. cus i dont know if SoFII is out here.

Silent_Thunder
02-06-2002, 01:46 PM
:ewok:



I wouldn't mind either way, personally, as long as there wasn't excessive amounts of blood and gore.

But I'd just like to point out that Dark Forces, did have blood in it. Not that that should decide wether or not to include blood in JKII, but because someone stated above that both Dark Forces, and Jedi knight didn't have blood in it. Just thought I might aswell point that out.


:ewok:

Com Raven
02-06-2002, 03:12 PM
Gore is cool in Max Payne, cuz it'a a dark, gritty and mature atmosphere...

Whereas JK.....

dazilla
02-06-2002, 05:47 PM
I don't mean to sound sadistic or anything, but I'm afraid that it might take out some of the realism if there's ABSOLUTELY no blood. As someone already mentioned, In the Mos Eisley cantina, Obi cut off that guy's arm who was attacking Luke. The arm was bloody. Also another not so bloody but still relatively gory scene was when Luke went into the dark side cavern and Vader was decapitated.

[SICK]Vomit
02-06-2002, 06:39 PM
I'm with thrEEpaGe and Dazzilla. Us normal realistic hardcore FPS gamers got to sick together! Like dudes, I want to party with you!!! What are your emails?

dazilla
02-06-2002, 08:05 PM
I think you understand me incorrectly. I don't want Q3 type gore where a bloody mist actually hangs in the air after shooting the people with a rocket launcher. I simply want a little blood to make it a bit more realistic.

MercenaryI{aos
02-06-2002, 08:32 PM
O.K.
Too much blood and big gore chunks are a little farfecht'd IMO.
A little blood...okay
I'd say some visible "damage" on the models is best with sprays of blood are good (Operation Flashpoint {which is much more real than any other game})
Though no blood is perfectly fine.
Especially in Star Wars.
though detachhabble limbs while slashing away with that lightsaber is great in JK:D


Pit Droid!!!!

Worms
02-07-2002, 02:34 AM
Theres no blood in Star Wars or Jedi Knight or even Dark Forces, so why add it in, plus if you shoot (or even cut) with laser (blasters, lightsabres) it doesn't bleed, the heat seals the wound...

[SICK]Vomit
02-07-2002, 08:24 PM
I think you understand me incorrectly. I don't want Q3 type gore where a bloody mist actually hangs in the air after shooting the people with a rocket launcher. I simply want a little blood to make it a bit more realistic.

Dazilla, don't worry, I'm with ya bud! No need to explain. Us realistic hardcore FPS know about reality!!! From yours and the other posts that support blood and gore, its obvious I'm talking with people that served in the armed forces such as myself! Man, watching a tow missile slice right into a APC...I don't need to tell you the details...you've been there! You know reality!!!

Bring on the blood!!! Yeah Baby!

UseDaAgression
02-07-2002, 08:43 PM
Well like people before me have said it cauterises the wound so the only blood that comes out is the small amount before the wound is sealed and thats why maul and qui gon wernt spewing blood everywhere

Kurgan
02-07-2002, 10:02 PM
A couple of points I'd like to make:

1) In The Phantom Menace, in the scene where Darth Maul was struck the blow with Obi-Wan's lightsaber (that would lead to him splitting in half as he fell down the shaft) you can CLEARLY see a spray of red mist coming up from the wound. I didn't notice it in the theatre, but watching the film on DVD, there can be NO DOUBT that this is blood, from a star wars canon source, from a saber hit. It's even more convincing than the bloodly limb in the Cantina scene in ANH, or the bloody stump on the Wampa in ESB.

2) "T" (for "Teen") in a game does NOT mean there is no blood in it, it just rates the overall level of graphic violence/sexuality/language. I have seen many games with T ratings that also have blood in them.

That said, it's not a big deal, I just don't see why the blood HAS to be removed. It's already in the engine, so it would have been a concious choice to remove the blood. I figure a red mist from dismembering hits would be both "star warsy" and would fit into the rating.

But, it is LEC/Raven's call on that. Maybe it will be "added" in a patch, or maybe somebody can enable it in a mod.

Something to think about...

Yodimus Prime
02-07-2002, 10:06 PM
The only place i can think of where blood would be visible would be inside the cut section of a severed limb. And even then, there wouldn't be any on the ground or oozing out.

[SICK]Vomit
02-08-2002, 10:16 AM
Wow, we got doctors and licensed coroners here too? The thread “Everything I know in life I owe to Star Trek” pales to you people. Glad to see the Phoenix On-line University is spending their add money in the right place.

thrEEpaGe
02-08-2002, 10:23 AM
i think that blood would still be more realistic....one of the reasons that blood wasnt included in jk2 and df was the poor graphics.....back then it was hard to make realistic looking blood or realistic anything for that matter...heh...

and with the q3 engine, its a bad idea imo to leave out blood.....

jesseg88
02-08-2002, 01:43 PM
In Indiana Jones And The Infernal Machine and in Outlaws, both games by Lucasarts, there was some blood, but there wasn't blood in any SW games, I'm kind of glad the's no blood in JO.:D

CaptainRAVE
02-08-2002, 03:00 PM
From what I've seen in the trailer I think blood would totally spoil JO...........blood would look pointless and just wouldnt suit the game. I also think reviewers would go with the fact that it would be pointless.

Kurgan
02-08-2002, 11:49 PM
Ahem.. I hope that a saber cut produces a nice puff of misty "smoke" with each hit.

Fair enough? *cough*cough*

Silent_Thunder
02-08-2002, 11:55 PM
Am I the only one that remembers blood in Dark Forces? Especially in level 3 where Kyle is fighting the dianogas.

Obi
02-09-2002, 10:11 AM
<font color=cbcbff> Oh, I think it'll be fine. The limbs flying all over the place should satisfy any need for violence. If you want to see one fly off, aim for a limb, the engine is great for dismemberment. To be "realistic" though(I'm sure blood still flows from humans the same way in star wars,) limbs are fine and believable, I don't care who you are or what you are using, it's going to take more than cauterization to keep some blood from coming out when you cut someone's torso in half. (Even though when maul is cut in half, I don't think that's blood, since blood doesn't glow. I think that's just his lightsaber). Anyway that's just my take on it.

CaptainRAVE
02-09-2002, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Silent_Thunder
Am I the only one that remembers blood in Dark Forces? Especially in level 3 where Kyle is fighting the dianogas.

Probably, but the graphics are so old its hard to tell :)

Kurgan
02-10-2002, 07:08 AM
No, watch it again.. that's definately a spray of blood flying from Maul. Granted, it's MOVIE BLOOD and not real blood shed from Ray Park, but you get the picture. It's not from his saber.. never in the movies have we seen a red glow produced from hitting flesh, only blood, burns, or "nothing" (passes straight through).

Or are you saying that Darth Maul is a robot, and his metal body turned molten when he was cut in half? That'd be an interesting theory...

And if it's a glow from his saber... why is it red? Why not the color of the saber he's using? (Green)

Watch the DVD version.. freeze frame, and go in slow motion when he does the "reaction shot" as he's being sliced... that's blood I tell you!

That much blood in the game would be <i>no big deal</i> for the rating or for anything else. If it's not realistic, then the canon films aren't realistic...

And hey, if severed limbs ooze blood on the ground, (like they did in A New Hope) that'd fit in perfectly with the movies.

CaptainRAVE
02-10-2002, 07:33 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
No, watch it again.. that's definately a spray of blood flying from Maul.


I said that, but noone would believe me. Hell, if a person is cut in half not even a lightsaber will seal the wound :rolleyes:

TUS_Tomcat
02-10-2002, 07:38 AM
I agree thats blood in the movie...

But you cant cut folks in half in JK2 can ya? only limbs off right?

arms and maybe legs?

I also believe bleeding storm troopers would just look silly... They dont bleed in the movies do they? I think it would be awkward and i dont mind there not being any blood

CaptainRAVE
02-10-2002, 07:47 AM
Only limbs unfortunatly. I was hoping you could cut people in hlaf........but unfortunatly that just wont be :(

TUS_Tomcat
02-10-2002, 08:58 AM
legs can be cut?

i thought only arms!

i imagine it now! coming straight at a stormtrooper, wall walking to avoid his fire, jump off, land RIGHT behind him, DUCK, and slice BOTH legs CLEAN off!


is sucha thing possible?

CaptainRAVE
02-10-2002, 09:32 AM
I think by limbs it just means arms. Raven originally said only arms could be cut off :(

Agen
02-10-2002, 09:50 AM
I think a little mist woudln't be bad for it but gore flying all over is too much for a SW game.

CaptainRAVE
02-10-2002, 10:11 AM
Most species wouldnt have red blood anyway......probably green etc.......It would get really disgusting :(

[TE]DarthBob
02-10-2002, 07:38 PM
I hate to say this, but I think the Vomit guy is the only one making sense. This is science fiction...right? This is science fiction game based on a science fiction movie. Get it?

Abomination5
02-10-2002, 07:49 PM
I think blood would sort of ruin the effect its supposed to be jedi's dueling it out not a frag fest its sort of a star wars mood thing. I actually like the idea of limbs being choped off as long as theres no blood I don't know why just one of those things I guess. :atat: :( :deathii:

Abomination5
02-10-2002, 08:03 PM
Note: You don't have to waste space by continually posting to "test" your signature. You can in fact go back and EDIT your own posts, thus you can do all your testing in ONE POST, saving everyone having to post a half a dozen or more posts full of test graphics and signatures.

You can also delete your own posts and "clean up" after yourself. Though we admins and mods have this privilege, don't wait for us to do everything. ; )

Thanks.

- Kurgan

Kurgan
02-11-2002, 07:26 PM
Well, just to throw one last bit of gas on the fire... here's a few pictures (un-doctored btw, taken straight from the DVD, apologies to Lucasfilm, of course).

<a href="http://www.public.iastate.edu/~kurgan/largemaul.jpg"><img src="http://www.public.iastate.edu/~kurgan/smallmaul.jpg"></a>

Click on the picture for a larger version (uncompressed)

I honestly admit in the two times I saw TPM on the big screen, I never noticed the blood, but then again I wasn't *looking* for it. I watched the film on VCD after having an argument about it with somebody on I believe it was the late OWK.net forums. Sure enough, it was there, although it looked like a spray of dust (since the color was bad). In the DVD it's bright red, and acts like a spray (probably a powder or CGI effect accomplished this, since you don't see residue.. but it's not like a glow, that would evenly coat everything, not appear as a mass of particles).

That's a good point about different blood colors.. Mortal Kombat 3 comes to mind... they can get creative (in MK3, certain monsters had green blood, humans had red blood, and robots leaked black oil). I wonder if the blood wasn't red it would be a problem for anybody? ; )

As to limb cutting, hands, forearms, whole arms, torsos, and even heads have a precedent in the canon films. We don't see blood from blaster hits, although the hits apparently in the non special editions were a lot more serious than most of the ones seen in the SE (smoke, flames, sparks, etc and big gaping holes from stormtroopers.. compare the squib hits to Stormies vs. the hits to the WALLS of buildings in the films...). Some people have told me that in ROTJ, you can see blood on Han's gloves after he puts up his hands (after pulling Leia to safety after she gets shot) when Chewie is in the AT-ST pointed at them. But I can't make it out...

I would assume a blaster shot would react similarly to a saber hit.. the energy would burn into the wound, but also have kinetic energy to rip through the body, so there would be some blood loss, in addition to burns and melted armor/burnt clothing.

Kurgan

[SICK]Vomit
02-16-2002, 10:58 AM
Hey! you guys are on to something. I watched it over and over in 8 and 10 zoom, frame by frame, for days on end...and I have detected excrement oozing from the intestines. Yup, I bet that would happen in real life, so lets propose and put together a petition to make sure that excrement spews from the body when you saber or blaster kill. Give a whole new meaning to look out for the flying caca!!