View Full Version : The New Jedi Order descussion/petition for Jedi Knight II

02-05-2002, 11:49 PM
Greetings everyone!

As you have no doubt deduced, this is my first post in this fourm dedicated to one of my all time favorite games, Dark Forces and Jedi Knight. I am also a poster at the www.unjoh.com fourms as the user "Karrde". I'm especially interested in any comments from this boards adims or actual game developers. In advance I thank you for reading this topic. I didn?t see any other topic along this line so sorry if there are other topics on this. Please hear us out before throwing us to the Sarlaccs! ;-)

If JKII sells enough copies or at least the same as Jedi Knight (which is practically assured) there will almost certainly be an expansion much like Mysteries of the Sith. Here is what I propose.

I will be the first to say the odds of this being successful are slim at best. Raven and Lucasarts are real companies trying to make real money and that means putting stuff into games that works and/or is popular. If every developer of a popular series gave in the whims of rabid "Fanboys" the games they make would not be as half as good as they started out. However, to go against what the little green guy said, "Do or do not, there is no try." I thought we should at least try to get Raven's/Lucasart?s attention. Kenn Hestroka (sic) is a good guy (very informative on message boards with Soldier of Fortune and Elite Force) and he and other developers usually tries to answer questions about Raven's games. They go the extra mile for customer satisfaction (and at times entertainment :-D ), which is why I?m even here posting.

If there is going to an expansion, then this "petition" if you want to call it that, will have one simple goal. To try to get at least one level or more set in the New Jedi Order area with Kyle Katarn facing off against the Yuuzhan Vong. The most powerful, ruthless, and terrifying enemy since the Empire. Let me make myself clear, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THE ENTIRE EXPANSION. One or two levels would enough. Even fighting a single "Boss" Vong would be a real treat for myself and many fans of the EU. If enough people speak out on there is a chance it will secede for a number of reasons.

1. The New Jedi Order is a New York Times selling series. That may not translate directly into easy money. But there is an audience out there, a big one.

2. Raven and Lucasarts have had no qualms about using Expanded Universe material in their games. In MotS, there were Noghri, Vornsrks, Jedi Holocrons, Mara Jade, the New Republic etc... Heck, Kyle's adventures were even mentioned in the Essential Chronology. They did not dominate the game, they add flavor to it. If all else fails the online community will probably make a NJO mod. But it would be something really special if Raven and Lucas Arts took part in it.

3. Ken himself is a fan of the EU (or so I read in an interview) so it is likely he will at least consider this.

4. At the very least we should get a response from Raven about the feasibility of this.

5. The Vong have been mentioned on the official Jedi Knight II site, so all we need to do is *nudge* Raven/Lucasarts in the right direction. The game is already set near the end of the Empire. The New Jedi Order period begins a few years later. A few years isn't going to make a big difference plotwise (MotS gave Kyle gray hair etc...)

6. The Vong are a unique style of enemy. Certain force powers may not effect them (such as Jedi mind trick) and they can fight using a variety of melee (Amphistaff) and ranged (Thud bugs i.e. blade or exploding grenades) weapons and use powerful armor (Vonduun crab armor) which can stop a few blaster and lightsaber strikes. A very deadly combination considering they're on of the only enemies who can fight the jedi this way. It would be an ample, but not impossible challenge for players. They?d fill the role of the Sith statues in MotS most likely.

7. Art work and information on these guys is readily available, the New Jedi Order source book, Essential Guide to Aliens have tons of information and pictures on the Vong. They're an established well known enemy. The official site even has a web entry on them. That doesn't happen too often in the EU.

8. (bonus). There are also many new weapons ideas that could be added. Such as the G-9 Powerblaster (souped up blaster) or Mini-cannon (think anti-tank) gun.

Anyone who supports this idea can chime in here. Feel free to add any comments or suggestions you like. Again, thank you Raven and Lucasarts for even making the next game in a really great series. If there is enough support we'll submit an offical petition. This is just "testing the waters" so to speak.

02-06-2002, 12:00 AM
Welcome Anakin.:)

As you already said, the Vong have been mentioned on the JK2 site, and the truth is, Kyle may in fact go up against a Vong despite what many think..

Maybe you should hold off this petition until the game is released.:)

02-06-2002, 12:09 AM
Welcome. That sure is a heck of a first post.:p

Good points though. We'll see if anyone was listening.

02-06-2002, 01:00 AM
Like I said, I'm just seeing if the fan support is here and giving the heads up to the devs. We'll get something more offical if enough people sign on. Can't wait for the trailer tommorow as well!

02-06-2002, 01:11 AM
Reminds me of kurt :)

02-06-2002, 02:18 PM
many people talk about the Vong
Iv not read that series, I will try to get them but I doubt I will
Can anyone point me to a site that explains the story, or someone briefly explain me about them? It has probably been explained here, but I cant read through all of the threads talking about it

02-06-2002, 02:24 PM
First off, LEC has NEVER been good about paying attention to petitions or being persuaded by the opinions of fans.

There have been many petitions (remember the one about Obiwan) but they haven't even replied to them.

I'm guessing the earliest work of an expansion is on the drawing board or in some one at LEC's head. LEC will do what it wants regardless and never listens to outside advice.

LEC will do want LEC wants to do with the expansion. Just read thier little blurb about submissions on thier website.

02-06-2002, 02:35 PM
digl, I read the first few books of the series. It's about an alien race that comes into the SW galaxy from another galaxy. They've been sent by their Gods to take the galaxy for their own. They use biological weaponry and think mechanical devices are blasphemy. Most importantly, they are immune to the force (at least they still were when I was reading). There's other stuff that happens, but I won't spoil the people here or you.

I think it would be great to have a mission or two like this. The actual level wouldn't excite me, but rather the ability to go up against these dudes with their super bio weaponry.

02-06-2002, 02:53 PM
thanks canoli :)

heres the "little blurb about submissions" FEEDBACK ON OUR WEBSITE: webjedi@lucasarts.com
(Note: Before sending email, please read these commonly asked questions regarding unsolicited submissions.)

Q: What exactly is an "unsolicited submission?"
A: An unsolicited submission is defined as the unrequested tendering of materials or ideas to LucasArts for consideration.

Q: What are some examples of unsolicited submissions?
Drawings and models of ships, vehicles, buildings, environments or characters for inclusion in a Star Wars game.
A script for a sequel to a LucasArts game.
A computer game you programmed.

Q: Is it possible to sign a waiver?
A: No. Unfortunately there are no "correct channels" through which you may submit an idea to LucasArts. For legal reasons we cannot solicit game ideas from outside the company and therefore do not accept unsolicited material which is sent to us.

Q: What will happen if I forward my ideas and material?
A: We request that you do not forward any materials to LucasArts. Any submissions will be returned to you unread and unviewed.

We hope you understand our need to consistently apply this policy.

Thank you.

02-06-2002, 02:57 PM
Hello Digl, havent seen you around for a while. Didnt you go away somewhere??

Welcome to the forums Anakin at such an exciting time. Hope you enjoy your stay here :D

02-06-2002, 02:59 PM
How can the Vong be in JKO if we have enemy lightsaber users? There are no mentions of a Shadow Academy or Sith Inner Circle et al ad nauseum.

02-06-2002, 03:05 PM
Hi Rave, Iv been away for about a month, but now Im back, right for the trailer :D

Welcome Anakin, I havent noticed you were new
You should get all your gifts soon, the basket, the chocolate medallion and the new lapel pins :D

02-06-2002, 05:45 PM
That's too bad about Lucasarts not accepting any user recomendations. However, Raven on the other hand is quite goood at dealing with suggestions and I know of one example where fan posting made a difference on future project. I believe it was more focus on stealth than brute force in Soldier of Fortune 2. That idea partly came from posters on the Raven message boards. Since it's Raven that's developing the game I'm hoping they'll be more open minded.


I'm operating under the assuming that the Vong are NOT in Jedi Outcast. If they are then this petition is pointless. From the time frame I've seen the New Jedi Order would begin five or six years into the future from Outcast. Just because stuff doesn't get mentioned doesn't mean it didn't happen.


Sweet, is it a fruit or candy basket?

02-06-2002, 05:50 PM
I think that the Yuuzhan Vong make a great literary enemy, but like in the Borg Star Trek, they're just not applicable to a game. Force powers are useless against them, unless you fire a 1000 pound rock at them using the Force; they are somewhat impervious to even lightsabers, and they are virtually unbeatable.

02-06-2002, 06:45 PM
Well, LEC do notice peoples comments, because Simon Jeffery mentioned Obi-Wan petition, for example, in one interview when situation was very "menacing", but as we all know, they were wise enough to NOT listen fans then and believed in JK2 instead. Like Raven developers have mentioned, they can't fulfill our requests as we present them, but instead use them to back up their our propositions, if they are any similar. My point is, if LEC wants to make a game which features Vongs as new enemies and they know that fans also would like to see them, they would be quite stupid if they didn't make profit out of it. What comes to Raven making this happening, depends really on success of JK2, but I also think they are right people for the job and Jedi Knight series is best way of introducing this new threat to gamers; either way, I'm sure Vongs will appear in many SW titles sooner or later.

02-06-2002, 07:46 PM
Maybe. In fact, I'm afraid that they might get overused once they start being used. And they won't reflect the literary characters too well, since there's no way they can make them as strong in the game as in the books, unless they want to follow the books perfectly (which would be too linear).

02-06-2002, 07:56 PM
Well if Kyle were to encounter the Vong wouldn't that defeat the whole never-before-seen-conquerers idea in the books?

Unless of course the information dies with Kyle....;)

02-06-2002, 08:00 PM
Not if the expansion for JO was about 6 years after JO

02-06-2002, 08:35 PM
i've read the NJO books and they are quite good. I believe Star by Star is the last book in teh series but i am not sure. i am going to purchase the book hopefully this weekend. (i can read those books in like 4-6 hours) So then i will know. But in fact, in teh NJO books, the Yuuzhan Vong were around since the time of the old republic being around. Vegere, an yuuzhan vong person who was really someone from the galaxy taken away and "shaped" into one of them, mentioned that when she returned to the galaxy that there were far less Jedi then she remembered. The Yuuzhan Vong would be a nice in a JO expansion pack. And if they do set it before the began invading that is ok, they had operatives in the galaxy before the series started. How do you think Mara Jade Skywalker got her disease? The Yuuzhan Vong gave it to her. So, it is a slim possilblity that Kyle could face an Yuuzhan Vong in JO.

02-06-2002, 08:58 PM
The Vong would be cool enemies, but I wonder if they wouldn't be too difficult to defeat? You have to find the weak spots in the Vong's Crab Armor, and that could be a real trick. If the Vong were in an expansion they would be to be toned down a bit.

02-06-2002, 09:04 PM
Right but if Kyle discovered them then why, during the time of NJO, were the Vong previously unknown?
Wouldn't Kyle have told someone in the New Republic about these Super Warriors?

But if the expansion were set 6 years later it would make perfect sense for Kyle to encounter the Vong

02-07-2002, 12:45 AM
I don't see how the Vong could be any harder to beat than the Vornsrks in MotS! :P

Really though, there are plenty of ways to kill a Vong and by the time of Star By Star, it's not difficult at all. 18 Jedi destroy several hundred Vong in combat during one mission.

Crab armor only resists one lightsaber strike at any given point. An attack in the same location always gets through. The armor can also be destroyed by focused blaster fire. And if all else fails, headshots still work.

As far as force powers the ONLY one that would work would be mind tricks. Here's why.

A strong Jedi can push or pull a Vong, force lighting is a proven weapon, choke still works indirectly (create a vaccum around the target head), saber throw is effective. So don't worry about the difficultly. If marvel can be worked into the EU, Raven can create a balanced Vong.

02-07-2002, 12:53 AM

To answer your question, the Vong have advance scouts in the galaxy as far back as the prequel era. Perhapes a Vong scout or two would take interest in studying the Infidel Jeedai fight a worthy foe.