View Full Version : Column: Division of the Force

02-06-2002, 10:16 AM
Division of the Force (http://www.jediknightii.net/column005.shtml)

What do you think? Good, bad, don't care? SPILL IT! :luke:

02-06-2002, 10:23 AM

02-06-2002, 10:26 AM
Everyone will get my views in detail tommorow morning ;)

Darth Lunatic
02-06-2002, 10:38 AM
Good interview there. SUPER in-depth if i might add. Some amazing use of the English language too!

But through the fires of controversy, a compromise was forged

LOL! Thought about writing a movie script ZeroXcape (i mean Vagabond :sweating: )?

..or of commanding a battalion of Terran Tanks supporting their Protoss Carriers in Starcraft

You can actually do that in the Expansion!! Using the protoss Dark Archon mind control ability you take some terran SCV's then start building your very own human force!

ON the issue of light/dark force use. What defines a 'light side' abilty? We know a 'dark side' ability is all about attack (is saber throw considered a dark side power?)...but why can't a dark jedi/sith/force user, wield both powers. I say if your a Jedi and use powers for attack, then that makes you a Dark Jedi or a Sith (a dark side of the force user).

AHh another thought. A light Jedi uses the force when they are calm, at peace..passive.

A dark jedi uses the force out of fear, anger and hate. Those emotions dominate their action, therefore they are unable to wield force powers considered to be from the light side.

So if you want to keep absolutely true to Star Wars, a combination mode of Light/Dark force powers should not be implemented.

02-06-2002, 10:40 AM
right! now i'm really annoyed!
that link just crashes IE5... any link to a jediknightii.net address immediately crashes IE... it has been doing it for months... argh!!!

02-06-2002, 10:43 AM
Darth... read again who wrote the column... Mr. Vagabond - not me.

Jedi Howell
02-06-2002, 11:39 AM
lunatic has a point...but, according to the books(or something, somewhere), DJ(dark jedi) and LJ(figure it out) get their POWER from their respective forms of concentration/meditation. DJ should be able to use the force for anything, but only when they're angry>:(, and LJ should be able to use the force for anything, only when they're peaceful:). Its USING the force to make the power, not using the power...


Evo Wahn Jhin
02-06-2002, 12:02 PM
w00t my first post!

A DJ is Dark cause of fear & hate. This doesnt alow him/her to be as open as a LJ. A LJ does not have the Hate that makes a DJ agresive. Therefore limiting his/her abilities:D

I like the idea of light/dark powers being seperated in the name of team play and SW accuracy!

02-06-2002, 12:10 PM
First off, the Force is colorless, shadeless.

The actions certain person's make, (in this example Jedi) depends on their motive's

For example a Sith hates the Jedi, Why?... The Jedi did not agree on the "point of view" with the Sith, therefore they launched a offensive on them, eventually terminating them, I'm sorry if i don't completely follow the rules of the EU becuase i haven't read them all, (somehow they must have survived wich is obvious seeing the movie's), Now we know the Sith use more then the Force alone, they have Sith magic, therefore they are classified different.

Therefore they use what we call the Dark Side of the Force, they use their hatred, wich gives them "infinite" Power compared with the Light Side, but that all depends on the perspective of the person.

For all i know Darth Vader was the good guy, because if he saw it that way he was the good guy. it all depends on the perspective.

Now Dark Jedi, are different, they also use their hatred and anger and fear, but they are not bound to using powers specificly bounded to one side, they can use choke grip's (something a Light Side Jedi can do to of course) and absorb things too, but there motives are different again.

so my end conclusion at this point is, It all depends on the perspective of the person.

this might seem a bit strange (the piece of text) but im Dutch so please bare with me. il come up with a better one in time

02-06-2002, 12:11 PM
As long as the Multi-player is balanced and fun I will be happy.

Force push: Qui-Gon used it on the Battle droids in theed for a Good reason, Darth Maul used it on Obi-Wan in Theed also for an evil reason.

But some traits like Force Lightning are dark, and some like meditation are Light.

02-06-2002, 12:12 PM
In JK the Light/Dark side was indeed a good idea. It gave the gamer the ability to interact with the environment to change the outcome of the story towards the end. JK was one of the first games to allow gamers to change the story and therefore the life of your character.

However, when MotS came out allowing you the use of all force powers it was much more fun, and I guess it will be for JK2. Although you could not decide (through what you did in the game) what force side you chose it was still much better to have all the force pwers available to you. This may not be how it is done in the star wars universe, and im sure will bring up much controversy.

Dark/Light side..........to both sides any power is possible, but it depends how you use it. It is thought that only dark jedi use lightning for example, but if someone uses it for good e.g. to help someone then it is not an evil power. It depends on the way in which the power is used which determines if it is evil or not. Another example is force push. If you push a civilian of a cliff then it is evil, but if it is used to push someone out of danger then it is good.

I personally am glad there are no force sides in JK2 and totally agree with Raven/Lucasarts decision :D

02-06-2002, 12:50 PM
I want it to be fun and everyone has forgotten about good old lv 6/neutral where u get some of both

02-06-2002, 12:55 PM
I agree with Raven dev. Pat Lipo on his descision for the division of dark + light in MP.

I think it will contribute to JK2 being less of a quake clone.

02-06-2002, 02:23 PM
:duel: OK, I've got the technical data. According to this there IS a dark and light side. Light being the most extreme goodness, dark being pure hatred and evil. Very few Jedi or Sith fall to the extreme end of either side.

Most Jedi considur using the force as a method of destruction to be wrong, while dark Jedi would do such things without second thought.

Any person can fall anywhere among this line. (Note that the dark side is not tempting, but people who use it tend to like it.) Most people (non-Jedi) are somewhere in the neutral area. Typically JEDI force weilders tend to go to one side or another. The limits on who uses what powers are only in a Jedi's mind. Luke Skywalker could use force lightning just as easily as Palpatine did, but he doesn't think it's right.

Anyway, apparently the way JK2 is set up (as I've seen from previews) you can be dark or light (behave and use the powers that you find appropriate to that side) but it doesn't change the storyline.

02-06-2002, 02:33 PM
Very good indeed, I now have more confidance in the MP dev team.

02-06-2002, 03:09 PM
Light Jedi aren't able to use dark force powers(ie lightning). A light Jedi only acts when in a mediative state, when he/she is calm - lightning is created by pure anger or hate - therefor a light Jedi isn't able to "call upon" this power(and doesn't want to either!). The same is with the dark Jedi...they cannot use light side powers.

02-06-2002, 03:56 PM
I don't mind the light/dark split much, but I don't understand how Kyle can use both in SP but not MP. I can't say it would've been better for sure, but I thought they were drawing from JK and MotS both. Surely the option couldn't hurt. :confused:

02-06-2002, 04:11 PM
Very nice article. Vagabind has really good writing skills and interesting opinions which made it an enjoyable read. I'm looking forward to zX's tomorrow. :)

02-06-2002, 04:38 PM
hey, my name is there and in bold :D

Actually as Vag said, I had sent some emails to Pat Lipo too, about the division of powers and other things, but as Im only a forum regular, not someone from lucasgames, I never thaught of asking him for permission to post his answers
I didnt want the division of sides because I like playing JK like a disciple sometimes, but Pat answers (some of which are in the column) satisfied me, If the game will be balanced to play that way, we will get used to it, and Im sure they have tested it and is indeed very fun to play

Krayt Tion
02-07-2002, 05:29 PM
That's basically the kind of replies I would love to get on every major JK2 issue that we come up with- happening in a different reality of course.

A pat on the back for pursuing this as far as you did, Vag. And thanks to Pat for playing ball.

Never got in my stance on the whole issue... ideally the best situation for me would be for them to provide the Dark vs Light setup and the Mots-esque setup- finding a way to balance the focus on both to avoid the game being "foggier."

He makes some good arguments, some of which I don't agree with, but his words add comfort where they might not have been much before. No sense in beating this dead bantha.

02-07-2002, 06:12 PM
With a Light/Dark Division it will setup more unique characters than otherwise possible. It has pros and cons. I think that the pros outwiegh the cons though.