View Full Version : Is Raven getting any insperation from Dark Forces?

02-07-2002, 01:32 AM
Not that this is really all that big of a deal, but it was something I was wondering about.

Even the title, Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast (as appose to Dark Forces III: Jedi Outcast), seems to be alluding the original game in the series.

Now, many of you would probably say that Jedi Knight is all that the original was, and more, and that there is no reason to look at DF for ideas. But IMO, there was several things that Dark Forces did much better.

The puzzles in Dark Forces were far more complex, which was good in my opinion. Several puzzles that come to mind are the Imperial City one, and the Arc Hammer. And ofcourse there was also the sewers puzzle (Well sort of...). But Jedi Knight was pretty devoid of puzzle solving I'd say... With the exeption of perhaps level 9 fuel station, but that was still pretty direct.

The other thing that comes to mind that DF did better then it's seccesor was the secret areas. Secret areas were some of the coolest things in Dark Forces, and brings back alot of the fondest memories I had in any game. One of the coolest was the HUGE secret area in level 1, which was practicly an entire base in and of it's self. Also, the executor, Jabba's ship, Nar shaddaa and several others had some very note worthy secrets. What did the secret areas in Jedi Knight consist of? Almost all of them were just a crate in the wall with an obvious crack in it, and after a slash with your saber would reveal a tiny room with a few power ups. Ofcourse they all weren't like that, such as level 10 where there were a couple wind tunnels where you could go agianst the wind and find a secret tunnel, and level 8 also had a couple of cool "secrets" though they were more of alternitive paths (such as kell dragon room).

Don't get me wrong though, I loved Jedi Knight, and wouldn't mind if everything in JKII was based off of JK. But I was just curious if anyone noticed anything that would imply that they were indeed using Dark Forces material as inspiration.

02-07-2002, 04:42 AM
The main problem with huge secret area's is that you build them and a lot of people are going to miss them, and you'll be spending less time on other stuff that is more important.

02-07-2002, 08:55 AM
From Jedi Knotes number 2:

Playing the original Dark Forces, Jedi Knight and its companion game Mysteries of the Sith provided us with lots of clues and ideas about what players would expect to see in Star Wars® Jedi Knight® II: Jedi Outcast™.

sounds like they have played BOTH the original games to me, specificly also to aid their development of a good successor

full Knotes:


hope this is the sort of thing you wanted to see

02-07-2002, 09:38 AM
Not only will there be some puzzles there will also be different approach styles such as some levels require you to sneak around as compared to others where you go in with guns blazing.

Sounds as if the game is coming along nicely.

02-07-2002, 10:47 AM
well, from what i can tell, it will be much different than jk1 in terms of style of gameplay....because jk was completely devoid of puzzles that you have to complete to beat the levels (its impossible to get lost, etc. etc.), i would have to say that jk2 will be much more extensive in terms of secret areas, puzzles, and the likes..you will also be having to try to figure out strategies to beat certain parts of the levels (ie ballz to the wall or walking around w/ mind trick and killing silently.....) so i definitely think that jk2 will be better tahn jk was in those areas

02-07-2002, 01:17 PM
I totally agree with you Silent_Thunder about DF. It was better than JK in some areas

I think the name change is just a marketing thing, because Jedi Knight is way more known than DF, and Star Wars : Dark Forces III : Jedi Knight II : Jedi Outcast would be a pretty long name :D

02-07-2002, 01:25 PM
Well that sounds alot better then I expected.

Yeah, I do realise that if the developers make the secret areas to big, and hard to get to that it'll get passed over by alot of people, but I think there should be some kind of balance between the two. Jedi Knight's secret area's were for the most pretty pathetic for the most part. And also pretty devoid of puzzles. But I don't think the original Dark Forces suffered becuase of it's large secrets, and long puzzles, but made the game last longer. Also, there wouldn't need to be lot's of large secret areas in JKII, there could just be like 1 or 2 big secret areas in each level, and maybe 2 or 3 of the "cracks in the walls" secrets. Unlike in JK were there was about 10 or more secret areas in each level.

It's nice to know that Raven said there'd be puzzles... and alternitive paths, but what exactly does that mean? There isn't any map, because "the game is designed so you don't need it" to paraphrase a statement made by a dev at Raven. I never found myself using the map in JK, but I DID find my self using the map in Dark Forces quite a bit. I'm wondering though, if when they say puzzles, the devs only mean the kind you see in the original JK.

I personally would want to see lots and lots of sneaking, puzzle solving, and finding secret areas, but I won't cry if it's as direct as Jedi Knight.

02-07-2002, 01:53 PM
What I liked about Dark Forces is that it actually had objectives that were actually useful. (IE: Steal this and blow the place up). JK kinda did that but not a good amount of missions were like that. It was more like 'go to the destination' type.

What I also liked is the use of equipment that levels had like the gas mask and ice boots for the hoth-like level. In JK, the only decent gadget we got was the IR goggles (like in DF) which was pretty useless.

02-07-2002, 05:09 PM
Yeah, I had forgotten about those 2 things JR. I'd LOVE to see the gas mask return, that thing was really cool :).

You're also right about the objectives.

02-07-2002, 07:25 PM
ya ice cleats are pretty cool

I also like how buttons moved a transport ship that you had to get out on :)

02-07-2002, 10:20 PM
I'm going to miss the auto-map. Heck, Elite Force should have had a map.. isn't that what a tricorder does? (although granted that using a tricorder is a good way to give away your position when stealth is required).

Although once I'd memorized every level, the only thing I used the map for was locating my targets in multiplayer (combined with force seeing), I'll admit.

Still, I hope that doesn't mean the levels are too small and predictable...


02-07-2002, 10:25 PM
I don't like puzzles that are so hard they make me want to wip the game cd across the room, but if levels are to easy thats no fun either. I did like how you go to blow almost everything up in DF, that was always fun. I think JO will have a nice mix of blowing up stuff, puzzles, gunning, and fun in general.