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CorranHornjr
02-12-2002, 01:54 AM
Hey all,

I don't know if anyone else has posted something like this, if they have, sorry. But I thought it would be cool if JO had a force power that would be like a force sense. In the movies and books all the jedi have a sense of when danger is about to hit them. Alot of times in jedi Knight or MotS I found myself getting shot from behind and not even knowing it was coming.

I don't know if anyone has played Spiderman, but he has a spidey sense and when danger is around, a little graphic comes up around his head. I don't know if it would have to be like that, but something to signal that something was approaching. It could not use for like the Lightsaber blocking doesn't use force power.

Just thought I would see what you all thought.:rolleyes:

SkiggeBoy
02-12-2002, 08:38 AM
Yeah that kind of force sense would be cool,
at first you wouldn't have it but when you get
more experience as a jedi...:cool:

But actually there is force sense in it, the game music changes
to actionmusic when enemies spot you, just like in Deus Ex.

DeusEx is the second best game...JK2 is the best :cool: at least
I hope it is...

:) I am the one who has played DeusEx trought with realistic mode:)

Skiggeboy

Lord_FinnSon
02-12-2002, 09:22 AM
Kenn Hoekstra confirmed that there will be some form of Force sense in the game(passive Force power), but nothing specific about details.
It could not use for like the Lightsaber blocking doesn't use force power.
But lightsaber blocking WILL use Force mana later in the game, when you have improved your skills using it, so that you can even deflect incoming blaster bolts back to their shooters. Don't know about Force sense though, but I doubt it.

CorranHornjr
02-12-2002, 12:51 PM
hhmm I didn't know that later on lightsaber block would take force....and it is cool to find out that there will be some type of force sense.

Plus i was wondering if anyone thought about the force power that Vader used in empire when han shot at him. We have Absorb...but that doesn't take blaster shots. Has anyone heard about that type of force power??

(I don't know if force defence from MotS was like this force power.)

Thanks for the posts man..i was worrying that nobody would ever post.

BuRn
02-12-2002, 01:00 PM
its basically the same force power, instead of force power being absorbed, you can absorb energy. best described in "I, Jedi"
Corran Horn uses the energy as a boost which allows him to use telekinesis in one case.

Obi
02-12-2002, 01:01 PM
<font color=cbcbff> Yes, I assume it'll use force power when it returns the shot accurately. But my question is how do you switch it so that he just protects himself and doesn't try to aim it back. What if you are trying to save up your force for a strong attack and people keep shooting you, kyle just automatically uses all of his force and returns the fire at the attackers? I think there should be a way to choose. Though Obi-Wan's blocking wasn't very great, the concept was good. Auto blocking with active blocking to return fire(which used the force power). That is best, in my opinion.

CorranHornjr
02-12-2002, 01:13 PM
Yeah I liked how it showed it with Corran in I, Jedi and in the NJO. I was wondering if that is how force absorb is going to be in JO? Or is that just what we are speculating? Cause that would add too see that in the game.

*Kyle walks us to stormtroopers with nothing in his hand and they shoot at him and then all they see is lightning coming back.*
maybe that is too hardcore...

The lightsaber thing does kinda suck if you are trying to save up mana...I am sure they thought about that though. As they said in an interview they have thought of all this stuff last year. I am sure it all works out.

In Jedi Knight it seemed like if you ran at someone, it was a 50/50 chance that you would get shot and not block it with your lightsaber..in the trailer he runs at a Rodian and blocks about 4 shots and then uses force jump and kills him. So it seems like it will move alot quicker too..we can run up and kill someone alot quicker and easier with this lightsaber tech...(most of you are going..DUH!!) but i thought i would mention it.

dazilla
02-12-2002, 09:16 PM
Corran didn't just absorb in one case...he used it many times...first when they were in that pool above the thermal vents and he had to absorb the energy from the pool, and then when he absorbed the blaster bolts from a guy and used the energy to telekinetically steal the blaster, and then my favorite scene, when he absorbed all the energy from the explosion in that was is Durga the Hutt's place, and then started an upward spiral shooting everything up into the air...wow...such a description of power.

CorranHornjr
02-12-2002, 10:17 PM
Well we all know how cool it is...is it going to be in the game? I know force absorb is..but do you think it will be this type of version? Or like Jk/mots? I really hope it isn't like jk, i used to use it against every dark side force and it didn't really work well in multiplayer. Single Player..it wasn't really worth it if you had Heal.

I hope there is a Corran Horn skin for MP...but probably not..he always gets screwed, never any credit..

Moses
02-12-2002, 10:41 PM
I could be wrong but I think I remember reading absorb will only be in multiplayer. It's hard to keep track with all the information now.

DeathBoLT
02-12-2002, 11:24 PM
i'd guess force sense is a counter to mindtricks, etc. and where you can see the silouettes of your opponents through the walls, etc.

maybe a threat indicator of some kind.

Moses
02-13-2002, 12:04 AM
I know at least I'm hoping for a threat indicator.

Redwing
02-13-2002, 01:05 AM
I'd like to point out that it seems mana will replenish far faster than in JK/MotS...which is good, since mana really slowed down the pace of JK (compared to more recent games)

Rogue_Ace
02-13-2002, 10:55 AM
I to am hopeing for some kind of threat indicator like in Alien vs Preditor (anoying beeping for the marines) but from the screens it looks like thats not going to happen. As for Klye asorbing energy like Corren I rember when reading I Jedi it mentions that asorb is a not so common force power, maby Kyle just dont have it in him.

Kurgan
02-13-2002, 11:53 AM
Yeah, or Highlander sense ("the buzz").

It would radically change gameplay though, because you couldn't sneak up on somebody.

Perhaps it could also warn you with a special icon if somebody has their sniper scope on you?

But it could be achieved by a hum that starts as they get within a certain vicinity (an enemy). It could increase in intensity as they get close. Perhaps different hums or onscreen icons depending on the degree of danger (rated by weapon strength). Multiple signals, etc.

It should go away once you actually make physical contact with the enemy, or that hum/flashing signal is going to get annoying. It would turn back on again if the enemy got a certain distance away (other signals would appear if other enemies closed on you while you were engaging that same enemy.

This would likely require bringing back a form of the automap.

It could be done.. but I don't know if I'd want it as a default option. Maybe as a special power, that could be allowed or not allowed. Otherwise.. no ambushes..
: P

It could be much like Force Defense, in that it would be "always on" (just not active) and would only use up mana while it was being engaged (so you save mana when you're safe). Or it could be a power you'd toggle on/off. If you kept it on all the time, it would drain mana, so that would be a sort of balancing factor. It would be similar to "reaching out with the force" to see if any enemies were nearby.

I wonder how tough it would be to put the overlay map feature back into the game?
---------

Incidentally, since it sounds like Kyle is going to be low powered at the beginning of JK2 (no force at all), I would theorize that the theory about the Valley of the Jedi augmenting Kyle's force ability was correct. This would also help explain why Kyle went back to a lower level at the beginning of MotS.

However, notice his level didn't go back to zero.... so apparently he had enough training and practice between JK and MotS to build his level up to around 4. I guess he could lose that much strength by "self denial" and lack of training (between MotS and JK2). The rest was all added to him by the Valley spirits (in JK) and the Sith spirits (in MotS).

So I wonder.. in JK2 will there be some explanation to his progress, or will he become a Jedi master FOR REAL this time?

Incidentally, this theory, for those that follow the EU, is not without precedent... take for example Mara Jade as the Emperor's hand (she lost almost all of her powers after the Emperor was destroyed) and Exar Kun's disciples in the Jedi Academy Trilogy, perhaps even Luke himself under the clone Emperor in the Dark Empire comics. In each case, a vastly more powerful entity used their force power to augment a weaker force user, to the point of incredible power. It seems the stronger force users have a wider sphere of influence, or deeper well of mana to draw from, and the help of the "master" allows the slave (as we'll call them) to have a deeper well than before.

Kettch
02-13-2002, 12:08 PM
Well in the last interview with Brett Tosti, he said that there was Force Seeing in JO, which allows you to see throught walls.


correct me if i was wrong =)

Kurgan
02-13-2002, 12:13 PM
You're right. I would assume that the radius of "see-through walls" increases as the power increases (3 levels). Should be interesting...

thrEEpaGe
02-13-2002, 12:23 PM
having the map would be better =/

lonepadawan
02-13-2002, 12:26 PM
What theory about the valley of the Jedi would this be?

CorranHornjr
02-13-2002, 02:01 PM
Where is Gonk? Maybe he can answer some of these questions for use..since I heard he knows all....

I was thinking about how the Jedi can sometimes see the future. Or they mediate and they can see the future...I guess they kinda had farsight as that option. But It would be kinda cool to see the future, but i don't know how they would add that into the game..it would slow it down alot. But I wonder if farsight will be back? Force seeing will be used through walls. Absorb is going to be an mulitplayer option, but i don't know if they have talked about what it actually will entail. Farsight was ok, I didn't really use it that much. I think they can improve on it, by maybe just shooting your view to the nearest attacker or hazard. Maybe that would be like a force sense. I just think force sense would add alot to feeling, "More like a jedi" as everyone loves to say Jedi Knight does.

Kurgan
02-13-2002, 04:32 PM
(*shakes GonkH8r vigorously*)
(*flips him over*)

He says "I better not tell you now, ask again later."


That would make sense.. and would be a good way to do the "see the future" force power (that is, allow you to see through the targetted person's eyes for a short time).

Should be interesting having some powers operate differently from Single Player to Multiplayer (like Obi-Wan pc was going to do) with Speed.

What theory about the valley of the Jedi would this be?

I hesitate to call it "my" theory, since I'm sure I'm not the only one to think of it, but we all know that Kyle didn't get that much training in JK. Yes, we have references in the books, about how Luke helped him out at a certain point, and he may have studied old jedi books, etc and been "self taught."

But still, at the end of JK, you're super powerful, more powerful than most Jedi we've heard about, and many people find it hard to believe a guy can, as one person put it, find "a lightsaber in a garage, and that makes him a jedi."

I see it fitting in well with EU precedents, in that I see as Kyle (a newbie Jedi in training) got closer to the Valley of the Jedi (which, as we know, was a collection of trapped Jedi spirits, both dark and light, that could be TAPPED INTO, which is what Jerec was trying to do), he got stronger. Not because he was just such a quick learner, but because he was receptive to the Jedi minds in that Valley. According to the novelizations of the dark forces series, the minds in the Valley were trapped, but they "reached out" to people, driving some of them mad. Jedi could sense the power, and had various motives of what to do with it.

So Kyle gets closer to the Valley, and his power increases, he either feeds off of the Dark Jedi spirits, or the Light Jedi spirits. By using their power, he can increase his own strength (perhaps without even realizing it) through the force.

After the event of JK, when the spirits are freed, and Kyle leaves the valley (having resisted the temptation to rule over them and make them his slaves, or to use them to become Emperor) his powers diminish to what they were before he entered the valley, much like Mara Jade's powers languished after the Emperor died, or Exar Kun's disciples after the dark spirit was vanquished.

In fact, the whole idea of jedi spirits helping living jedi goes all the way back to A New Hope. Remember how Obi-Wan helped Luke destroy the Death Star?

I see the same thing happening in MotS. Kyle learns more since the end of JK, and so he's stronger than he was, but he's still not a Master, and not nearly as powerful as he was with his Valley-spirit enhanced powers. But, he is heading for another spiritual graveyard of force power.. the Sith Temple. Chock full of dead Sith spirits, he can feed off of the dark power, and again, become exponentially more powerful than he was prior to his entering the temple. After leaving, he would go back to how he was before the temple incident, but even moreso, since he hung up his saber and refused to use the force.

Now the only thing here, is that I think Kyle should still have SOME control over the force when he starts JK2. I mean, lets say you had a power, and your life depended on using that power, I would think it would be pretty hard to resist it (since it would be suicidal). But I guess that philosophical question gets resolved simply by Kyle saying, after a few levels.. "Okay, fine, I guess I really need these powers after all, with what I'm facing" and he starts using them again, gets his saber back, and goes all out again.

But then I wonder... will he become super powerful, this time, through his own efforts? Or will he "cram" it again?

Kurgan
02-13-2002, 04:47 PM
This is a perfect illustration of what I was talking about!

While I normally don't post that much, but as the release of JK2 comes closer and closer, I can draw on that source and use it to force long post. As you can see, my own powers have increased dramatically...

; )

dazilla
02-13-2002, 04:59 PM
I like the idea of seeing through walls, but I think a 3d overlay map (with kinda seethrough like a holoprojector) would be cool. Oh, and also with the added function of seeing enemies would be nice too...and as you progress through the force you would get to see the type of enemies, and the more you go, the more you see.

Rogue_Ace
02-13-2002, 06:51 PM
I liked Kurgan's idea (in the form of a novel;) ) that seems like a good explanation to me. I also like dazilla's idea... kind of like using a heart-beat sensor like in Rogue Spear ( Rainbow Six). I think it would be cool to do the same thing with Force Sight.

-AB

CorranHornjr
02-13-2002, 09:23 PM
I was looking at some of the pics in the 'Force Power' section of the Official website, and Kyle's Lightsaber is turned off, but he is holding. I am really glad they added that into the game. It was really cool when I played jk and mots with SaberX and you could turn off your lightsaber.

What I don't like is that it seems to me that everyone has the same lightsaber hilt...look at the "characters" section and look at the 'reborn'...they all have the same hilt. Or the pics...don't tell me Raven went generic on this!!!

Redwing
02-14-2002, 12:27 AM
...

That would be because there's only been one Reborn pic posted on the site.

Rogue_Ace
02-14-2002, 10:45 AM
Where is that pic at??? I have not seen it yet!!!

TUS_Tomcat
02-14-2002, 10:51 AM
here:

http://www.lucasarts.com/products/outcast/models.jsp?num=23


The saber looks weird though, but thats probably because its not an ingame pic and sabers are done by the engine itself, or something

my guess

Spaceball_One
02-14-2002, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by CorranHornjr
I don't know if anyone has played Spiderman, but he has a spidey sense and when danger is around, a little graphic comes up around his head.


KYLE is hanging upside down on a ceiling and says to himself:

JEDI SENSE IS TINGLING!!!

when he feels stormtroopers are a'comin.

TUS_Tomcat
02-14-2002, 11:23 AM
Then funny thing with spidey on tv is that its usually just too late!

you know, spidey sitting somewhere

His spider sense goes off!

you hear him say: spider sense! Danger!!!

BAM he gets whacked in the head lol

Jinn Tar-Nesh
02-14-2002, 11:27 AM
HeHeHeHeHeHeHeHeHeHeHeHe.....That's a good one:) .....
or...KYLE is standing somewhere on the platform and we can see a dark jedi raising his lightsaber on KYLE..then we here a FART...the dark Jedi blushes and KYLE says: "I CAN SENSE THE FORCE":D

TUS_Tomcat
02-14-2002, 11:37 AM
Dark Jedi farts

Kyle says:

"I think i sense something! Correction: SMELL something"

CorranHornjr
02-14-2002, 01:42 PM
So it seems nobody really cares that all the lightsaber hilts are the same. Of course i don't think it will take away from the game. Plus I believe someone will create a mod. I think it would be cool if we could choose what hilt we wanted and what color, like Kyle creates one at the beginning of the game with Luke watching and we choose what we want. But oh well.

Stormtrooper1 says "Do you smell something?"
Stormtrooper2 "Um..yeah, did you fart?"
Stormtrooper1 "no..wait, that jedi is here somewhere..."
***

Rogue_Ace
02-14-2002, 04:59 PM
Thanks for the link TUS. I have spent hours at that sight and somehow i missed it...i must now punish myself...whats that smell???:D