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[TE]DarthBob
02-13-2002, 10:44 AM
I know that cheating is a concern and think it deserves its own topic. But If I may give my 2 cents.

Please do not accuse someone of cheating early into your JK2 gaming. 99% of the time, you will just be playing against a player of higher caliber, luck, scripting, ping or all the above. In all the time I have played Elite Force, I have not seen one positive proof of cheating. So, if you suspect cheating, record a demo, get a screenshot, but do not yell "Cheater". You will only look like a horse's patootee.

In elite force, you are able to script/bind photon jumps and MaxFPS settings to help jump out of a trench without using a photon jump. These are not cheats, but I dare not get into detail or the ethics of scripting, as that is a whole thread to itself. Many have been accused of having special running scripts and such, but again, no proof.

So enjoy and do not cry wolf for the love of Bob.

ps2maddenman
02-13-2002, 10:48 AM
I understand your point, but usually in on-line ladders and on-line leagues, running scripts are considered "cheating" I say leave it up to the players to decide if someone is cheating, I agree about not rushing to call someone a cheater, but an experienced player can usually tell cheaters right off the back and the cheaters should be booted, if servers allow scripting it should be clear to all who enter, if not, it should be accepted that these scripts are considered "cheating" to the online community and if you are running them realize this is the reason you are being booted.

UniKorn
02-13-2002, 11:06 AM
I've been playing elite force since it came out. I do not consider scripting as cheats. I altered my visuals (high brightness,...), did change my maxfps and fov. But these are things that you can do by hand. I also use some sort of scripting to send team messages. But these are common things in online combat using the quake3 engine. I play(ed) in WRLD, who won clanbase season 1&2, and the eliteforceleague, and have been accused of cheating many times, as have been my clanmates, although we never did. Highly skilled players can run faster by bunnyhopping. Using the correct technique in ef on certain maps you can even run faster than someone who has the haste powerup.

People who use aimbots are cheaters in my opinion, but I actually never saw people use it in ef. In the clanbattles against n! I sometimes wondered how the hell they were able to rail me so much, but these guys are very good, and sometimes a high skilled player can appear to be a cheater, even though he isn't. Be careful when you call someone a cheater, and make sure that you are 100% sure.

Just my 2 cents.

Krak3n
02-13-2002, 11:10 AM
Well i've played ef for over a year and am part of ccc^ (who will be playing JO) and we are 'good', and have won most of our matches (through tactics and very good team work) and because of this we do get a lot of stick from people accuseing us of cheating, when we do not....scripts, yes we do have them but the only ones i use is one that changes the games look so it runs smooth and allows you to see enemies better, but u still need skill to frag ppl :)
There are 'aimbot's' out there but very few people use them but if they do it's easily spotted - i mean every shot a head shot...more or less.
If people do cheat there is only one way to combat them, and that is to simply ignore them or leave the server.....they want to cheat....fine, they can do it on their own. :D

Silent Wolf
02-13-2002, 11:14 AM
Unless the person is blatently using some sort of cheat in cs i rarely call them out, because..whats it going to change? I just leave and move on. I am a experienced cs chick which puts me in a odd situtation because men LOATHE being owned by anyone let alone a girl. I get called a hax0rz 95 % of the time i play and i didnt even know how hax worked until about 5 months ago when i watched a movie on it( why play with the toys of the demon). My experience has been that no matter how good you are theres ALWAYS someone better, just suck it up and move on. If someones cheating, it just means there extremly inadequate in real life..let it go ;)

Agen
02-13-2002, 11:35 AM
Usually if you aren't the server or mod there's no point in accussing alot unless it's go damn blatant.

Com Raven
02-13-2002, 11:50 AM
Hmmm, I hope cheating won't be as much of an issue as in lamerstrike...

thrEEpaGe
02-13-2002, 12:09 PM
imo, scripting is cheating....

cheating by my definition is....well that is a tough one, and i might have to explain it in context...imo, scripting something that you should have to do by skill and not by your own two hands, is cheating. plain and simple...autoaim is a good example, and i know that everyone would agree that it is a hack...however, doing key binds to accomplish things that it is a given that you can do (i would guess that the photon jump like the RL jump in ut and CR jump in jk, but if im wrong, correct me heh)...i really do wish that jk had a keybind ability so that i could jump and shoot with the same button...i have not played EF and am simply going on experience, but from what i can tell, the scripting you are using are not cheats at all...the bad scripting is such that 'make up' for your 'physical shortcomings' ie being too much of a newbie to aim right and have to make it so that you dont lose etc etc. (i hate autoaim, can you tell?)

well, thats my 3 cents..heh....

CaptainRAVE
02-13-2002, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Agen_Terminator
Usually if you aren't the server or mod there's no point in accussing alot unless it's go damn blatant.

Indeed, but alot of cheating is usually done in a way so that it is not obvious.

Saient
02-13-2002, 12:35 PM
Cheating is always a problem in games. I wish OrangeSmoothie would make more OSP versions other that the grandaddy Quake 3 it usualy works pretty good and they need to make it availible for other games using the q3 engine.

CaptainRAVE
02-13-2002, 12:38 PM
Was there much cheating with Quake 3 or Elite Force??

Krak3n
02-13-2002, 01:22 PM
there has been little cheating in ef, if any :), Q3, i think there was some cheating in the beginning but was phased out by patchs. Medal of Honor : Allied Assult, another Q3 based game had cheats at the start but ea were quick to release a patch to prevent it. If there are cheats it's up to the developer to release a fix, if that isn't possible, just walk away and let them be lamers on their own :D

CaptainRAVE
02-13-2002, 01:40 PM
Raven will stop cheaters. They wont even need to bring out a patch ;)

Kurgan
02-13-2002, 01:48 PM
Sadly, I think that unless people change, the cries of "cheater cheater" will never stop. There will always be sore losers or ignorant folk who call everything that stops them from winning "cheating."

However, as to actual cheating, that's anyone's guess. The same potential for cheating exists in JK2 as in any other Quake3 engine based game. Pure servers will go a long way to prevent actual cheating though (I hope).

Being able to kick people much easier will also help keep it under control.

Darth_Lando
02-13-2002, 01:56 PM
Cheaters like to hang out behind the big tree behind the JK servers, you know, the one with the tree house.

To successfully combat the cheaters I say we split up go around the server and hit the cheaters with a quick one two.

http://users2.ticnet.com/cscafe/iv/cheaterz.jpg

JR2000Z
02-13-2002, 01:58 PM
Or we can just call their moms....

ps2maddenman
02-13-2002, 02:00 PM
Hey Darth Lando, that map cracks me up, very funny indeed. :D

TUS_Tomcat
02-13-2002, 02:32 PM
I hope there wont be an "unlimited force seeing hack"

[TE]DarthBob
02-13-2002, 09:47 PM
Kurgan, I agree. But something I neglected to mention in a related thread. Yes, it will be easier to kick people from the console, but only those with the server Rcon password can do this. Maybe that's old news, but just wanted to throw it out there. Elite Force supports the Call Vote option, where you can call a vote to kick someone or change maps. But most admins, including myself got sick and tired of roaming gangs of Yahoo's (Hmmm, cool name for a clan) comming into a middle of a public server match and switching maps, thus erasing scores and starting everything over. Not to mention calling votes to kick innocent folks. So most most Elite Force servers have the call vote turned off.

Again, I think the subject of scripts deserves its own thread. But scripts in the common sense in EF are NOT cheats. Maybe the term "scripts" holds a differnt value in the JK world? In EF, they are for the gamer inclined. Think of it as tweaks. And there are many web sites dedicated to explaining the tweaks. I suspect the same will be true in JK2.

Aw...what the heck! Lets just do the following to the cheaters! http://www.fileplanet.com/index.asp?file=84057

Kurgan
02-15-2002, 02:09 PM
Yeah, the voting thing could be abused.. I figure if you want to stop cheaters, you have to moderators. And yeah, for dedicated servers that kind of necessitates voting, if pure servers aren't enough.

A moderator could just periodically check the server, and boot people who were screwing things up.

MercenaryI{aos
02-15-2002, 06:42 PM
I foun one incidence in EF.

This guy was the doctor ok.
His model stayed in one spot the whole time.
You shoot and shoot... it passes thru the model.
lasers come from in front of you but noone is there.
you die:ball:
It say 'killed by (I forget the name)'
The guy with the stand still model!!!

Actually my friend was playing when this happened but it was at my house and I was watching. My friend said the guy was majorly hacked.

Silent_One
02-15-2002, 06:45 PM
Make the cheaters stop!!! Make the cheaters go away!

Darth Lunatic
02-15-2002, 07:28 PM
Yes Kurgan moderators would be the most effective way to rid the game of cheats. But who wants to sit in a game making sure no-one's cheating? It's an illogical solution.

It's better cramming the server with anti-cheat software. The servers i play counter-strike on actually scan files on your hard drive to see if you are cheating! If someone is cheating a message comes up during the game saying the name of the person, and what cheat they use. Their wonid is then permanently banned from playing on those servers.

[TE]DarthBob
02-16-2002, 09:46 AM
Mercenary, I suspect you were shooting at the player's decoy, and while you were busy trying to fill it with lead, the player came out of hiding to nail you.

Darth Lunatic, the Q3 pure servers will insure no cheating takes place. If any cheating is suspected, all I'm recommending is for people to gather proof first, research, before acusing people of cheating.

Broode
02-16-2002, 10:38 AM
Darth Lunatic: That might sound good in theory, but I was perma-banned from my favorite network of CS servers for an aimbot that I had downloaded as a joke a few months earlier, THAT WASNT EVEN RUNNING! Thats right, it was in my CS dir, even though i had long scince forgotten about it, an i was banned.

I don't play CS anymore.

[SICK]Vomit
02-16-2002, 10:44 AM
The SICK Crew doesn't need lame cheat scripts to win. We will own you all!!! MUHahahaaa!!!

MercenaryI{aos
02-16-2002, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by [TE]DarthBob
Mercenary, I suspect you were shooting at the player's decoy, and while you were busy trying to fill it with lead, the player came out of hiding to nail you.

I doubt decoys stay there the whole game.
Besides other people were commenting about this cheater as well.
I suppose he could have picked up a decoy thing and an invisibility thing but that wouldn't be it because it lasted the whole game.

[SWS]Strider
02-16-2002, 10:39 PM
[TE]DarthBob are you in a Elite Force clan? I play Elite Force quite reguarly and would love to see you in there somtime.

Strider

[SWS]Strider
02-16-2002, 10:43 PM
Sorry to post another off topic post but..... Krak3n, I'm aware of CCC, I know Mayhem. You guys are quite impressive. What servers do you normally play on. Our clan is semi new to 1.2 so I'm still a little of a newbie on clan in 1.2 and such. Our clan ( SWS ) isn't bad. We just played AvA and kicked thier butts. No offence if there are any AvA's here.

Strider

Tap[RR]
02-16-2002, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by [TE]DarthBob
I know that cheating is a concern and think it deserves its own topic. But If I may give my 2 cents.

Please do not accuse someone of cheating early into your JK2 gaming. 99% of the time, you will just be playing against a player of higher caliber, luck, scripting, ping or all the above. In all the time I have played Elite Force, I have not seen one positive proof of cheating. So, if you suspect cheating, record a demo, get a screenshot, but do not yell "Cheater". You will only look like a horse's patootee.

In elite force, you are able to script/bind photon jumps and MaxFPS settings to help jump out of a trench without using a photon jump. These are not cheats, but I dare not get into detail or the ethics of scripting, as that is a whole thread to itself. Many have been accused of having special running scripts and such, but again, no proof.

So enjoy and do not cry wolf for the love of Bob.



Uhh, im sure, you mean IN Quake 3, its a quake3 engine feature, i binded commands all the time in mods like urban terror, it really does help, i can only imagine the usefulness of bindnig force powers. ;)

[TE]DarthBob
02-17-2002, 02:16 PM
[TE]DarthBob are you in a Elite Force clan? I play Elite Force quite reguarly and would love to see you in there somtime.

What? Play Elite Force? Well, I don't actually "plaaay" elite force, I just read comments about the game. But I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Belgirion
02-17-2002, 02:20 PM
lol bob

[TE]DarthBob
02-18-2002, 01:17 PM
Yes Strider, The Empire and Obsidian Order....you know, those tags on my name? We play in the www.efleague.com. Who is SWS?

Maybe my sith name is confusing you. In EF I play as [OO]Tommyboy[TE]. But the sith high council demanded that I come up with an intimidating sith name for JK2....one that would invoke fear and panic to all Rebel Scum. I think I have suceeded...no?

anyway, look for me on The Preygrounds and on Devastatorís Holosuite. You can find me there most of the time. Or we can arrange a friendly scrimmage if you wish. Just click on my sig and leave a comment in the EF forum.