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View Full Version : Thoughts on Force Speed....


Silent_Thunder
02-13-2002, 02:45 PM
Back when Obi-Wan was going to be released for the PC, the developers let it be knowen that they were using slow motion force speed for single player. I believe I was one of the only people that didn't like that idea too much though.

The problem with SP force speed in JKII: JO is if it is so useful that you always need to have it on then that would kind of suck IMO. Imagine the trailer of the game, but imagine Kyle moving at normal speed, but everyone else moving in slow motion. However, I believe that the only reason why force speed wasn't used constantly in JK (SP) was because it made things alittle harder to controll, and you could kill yourself easier. But now that force speed makes Kyle run the same speed as normal, but with everything else moving slow, why would you NOT want to use it? I just hope the game isn't designed so that you need the slow motion force speed all the time. I hope it has some major drawbacks or something....

The other thing I don't like about Force speed is the way MP speed is being handled. In JK everyone always had it on, or as soon as they got hit they'd turn it on and run away to find some health packs. Now, with saber throw the latter won't be as big of a deal, since everyone has a ranged attack, even as a saber only lighty, but I'm just worried that force speed will be too fast, or as fast as 4 star JK speed so that saber throw becomes very easy to avoid (it would be rediculas if saber throw moved slower then force speed...).

I remember one of the devs stating that battles in JKII will be the most movie-like battles in any video game, it still may be the MOST like, but it certianly won't be too close to how most saber battles are, if everyone is running around at 100 mph.

The way I was hoping force speed would be like would be a sort of horizontal force jump. What I mean by this is, while running you just hit the force speed botton and you'll be launched forwards very quickly, and then resume normal running speed after the burst.

So, what does everyone else think of how force speed works in JKII? How would you prefer it to be done, or do you like it fine the way it is?

DeathBoLT
02-13-2002, 03:15 PM
In JK everyone always had it on, or as soon as they got hit they'd turn it on and run away to find some health packs.
that actually made for interesting gameplay due to the pace of the game..
Once again, I'll post part of a previous post I made concerning how force speed/jump effected gameplay, which created a very unique and entertaining form of gameplay:
you will find out that you're playing a incredibly fast paced game, where height and distance present no obstacle to reaching your destination. The shortcuts opened up by speed/jump* are amazing. Utilizing curves and bumps on the floors/walls of map, you are able to virtually fly using them as ramps. In the most popular sabers level, Battleground Jedi, there isn't a part that you cannot reach in a second, through speed-jump force use. You can dance around using the whole level as for cover, virtually leaping from behind one barrier to another across the map in mere seconds competely evading enemy fire.

*=Speed/Jump... using Force Speed and Force Jump to basically do running jumps at mach 4 :P

(it would be rediculas if saber throw moved slower then force speed...).
Saber throw strikes me as something that should only be useful to quickly strike someone 4-7 feet away from you.... which it could probably do with speeds just a tad over force speed speeds. Saber throw will make a great weapon to beat gunners with by giving you that added distance but it shouldn't be something that you sit there and throw it from distances of 10-20 feet and successfully hunt people down with it easily. People would be hiding in corners, throw their saber and simply chase around after people. That would be rediculous.

The way I was hoping force speed would be like would be a sort of horizontal force jump. What I mean by this is, while running you just hit the force speed botton and you'll be launched forwards very quickly, and then resume normal running speed after the burst.
I'd be pounding that force speed key to keep up continous force speed :P

dazilla
02-13-2002, 04:44 PM
What I'm afraid of is that if you're going at normal speed and everything is moving slower, then you still won't be able to run over chasms using Force Speed and normal jump. In JK, you could but it seems that your movements relative to the environment will also have to be stretched, IE horizontal jumps, etc.

Qel
02-13-2002, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Silent_Thunder

But now that force speed makes Kyle run the same speed as normal, but with everything else moving slow, why would you NOT want to use it? I just hope the game isn't designed so that you need the slow motion force speed all the time. I hope it has some major drawbacks or something....
Are u trying to say that u want this game to be FLAWED????

;)

Qel

JPMaximilian
02-13-2002, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by dazilla
What I'm afraid of is that if you're going at normal speed and everything is moving slower, then you still won't be able to run over chasms using Force Speed and normal jump. In JK, you could but it seems that your movements relative to the environment will also have to be stretched, IE horizontal jumps, etc.

Raven COULD still make it so that you could jump high/further even though you would be moving at the same speed, I wouldn't assume that they didn't.

Wilhuf
02-13-2002, 05:26 PM
Continous or not, force speed would still allow you to traverse great distances in combination with force jump.

Kurgan
02-14-2002, 06:49 AM
Personally I have no desire to use the "force slow mo" in place of force speed, even in SP, but then again, it might be amusing for awhile. I'd rather have it uniform in both SP and MP (as the "running around at uncontrollable speeds" method of JK/MotS).

This force "slow mo" is what they tried in Obi-Wan (note, it will end up differently, obviously, but it was their original plan for the PC version), now we get to see it here. It was their call, so we'll see how well it works....

Vagabond
02-14-2002, 08:58 AM
Agreed, Kurgan. And as I said in another thread, from the only visual evidence we have of Force Speed in The Phantom Menace, all it allowed Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan to do is to propel themselves away from the Destroyer Droids at an incredible rate. There is no evidence that it produced any temporal effect that would allow them to perform an increased number of actions per second as in the so-called bullet-time effect in The Matrix or Max Payne.

Some decisions have been made to make certain aspects of the SP and MP game very different from each other, which I highly disagree with.

In SP we have:

-Ability to use both Light and Dark powers.
-Slo-Mo Force Speed.

In MP we have:

-Only Light or Dark powers.
-Traditional fast Force Speed.

Consistency is something I feel is very important. Why learn a set of skills in SP that are not applicable, or at the very least are implemented completely different, in MP? To quote some of our Star Wars friends, "I've got a bad feeling about this..."

DeathBoLT
02-14-2002, 12:54 PM
i think the idea behind slowmotion force speed in sp is to represent not a decrease in time itself, but to modify your perception of time. people seem slower, but they aren't actually.. time hasn't slowed.. your mental processes have sped up and you've gotten physically faster.

im personally happy that speed is slow-mo in sp.. :)

Zodiac
02-14-2002, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Silent_Thunder

The other thing I don't like about Force speed is the way MP speed is being handled. In JK everyone always had it on, or as soon as they got hit they'd turn it on and run away to find some health packs.

This was always fun! :) If you know they're going to get health after they get hit, then it's ur task and duty to hog all the healths and bactas before they can reach it :D

Emon
02-14-2002, 03:21 PM
1. The slowmo method for SP is fine, it makes things a lot easier. However, it probably sucks up your mana really fast, so you can only you it for a few seconds.

2. In MP, I think it's fine the way it is, AS LONG as you can't got 60 mph like in JK, and in JK it lasts for like two minutes, which SUCKS! You can never hit anyone, it's nothing but running past each other at 60 mph swinging the saber. I hope it sucks your mana really fast so you can only have it on for a few seconds.

TUS_Tomcat
02-14-2002, 03:26 PM
it would also be good if you could say on your own, stop the force speed now, and not be stuck with a predeterminded time...

DeathBoLT
02-14-2002, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by Emon

2. In MP, I think it's fine the way it is, AS LONG as you can't got 60 mph like in JK, and in JK it lasts for like two minutes, which SUCKS! You can never hit anyone, it's nothing but running past each other at 60 mph swinging the saber. I hope it sucks your mana really fast so you can only have it on for a few seconds.

You can't hit anyone.. its not our fault that your reflexes aren't good enough to keep up with force speed.

Emon
02-14-2002, 07:42 PM
Oh, and I suppose because your a JK gaming god that you can go 60 mph while having an intense lightsaber fight while force destructioning guys on the ground while flying through the air with force jump? Yeahh, riiiight...

Running past a guy at 60 mph while swinging your saber is hardly a saber duel.

Vagabond
02-14-2002, 07:51 PM
Consistency is the key. From the sounds of it, Force Speed in SP will be a piece of cake. However, Force Speed in MP will be more difficult to master, which may turn many people off who prefer the training-wheels version of Force Speed from SP ;)

Kurgan
02-14-2002, 07:53 PM
The only reason I can see for not using force "slo mo" constantly in Sp is that it might very well slow down your AI buddies as well.. making them kind of useless (but then you could do all the fighting), and you'd have to "wait" for them to catch up.

Otherwise, yeah, I can't see any reason not to use it constantly. It should give you a huge advantage, inspite of the mana drain.

JK/MotS speed's only real disadvantage is that it was trickier to control, and yes, you could hurt yourself if you were not careful. Plus your REACTIONS had to speed up to compensate, while with slo mo, you can play as normal.

And while swinging your saber while running around at "60 mph" might not be a saber duel.. neither is gripping, lightning zapping, pushing, pulling, jumping, etc a "saber duel."

Then again, you could always argue that Episode I changed all this.. two vs. one, and they used force push to throw each other around. Most of us consider a saber duel to be one on one and no force. Otherwise it's a force duel (and you can use anything). The trouble is, if you can use any force power, it usually ends up the kills stop going to saber hits, and start going to other things, like pushing people off, choking/zapping them to death, etc.

DeathBoLT
02-14-2002, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by Emon
Oh, and I suppose because your a JK gaming god that you can go 60 mph while having an intense lightsaber fight while force destructioning guys on the ground while flying through the air with force jump? Yeahh, riiiight...

Running past a guy at 60 mph while swinging your saber is hardly a saber duel.

I'm no jk gaming god, but that isn't a prerequisite to being able to play at force speed levels for saber duels.

Don't believe me? We can get a game going. My zone name is _Deathbolt + my ICQ # is 5920286.

Emon
02-14-2002, 07:56 PM
Force Speed in SP probably only lasts a few seconds, making it impracticle to keep using it. It would also be boring.

Zodiac
02-14-2002, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by Emon
In MP, I think it's fine the way it is, AS LONG as you can't got 60 mph like in JK, and in JK it lasts for like two minutes, which SUCKS! You can never hit anyone, it's nothing but running past each other at 60 mph swinging the saber. I hope it sucks your mana really fast so you can only have it on for a few seconds.

Have u ever played someone who's VERY good at Full Force?? Trust me: He/she can hit you with a force_destruct-blast even when she/he's up in the air after a force_jump AND using Force_Speed.

Those good people can even GRIP you while you're both running past eachother.

Ever played Gabby or Jen or Reiko or any other good player at BGJ FF? All you see then is a red screen, because u are gripped and prolly dead within 10 seconds of a respawn, even when ur trying to run away with 60mph. Hence my cool scores of something like 30- -11 when playing Good darkies. (btw..Ever noticed that women kick men's @ss at FF?? :p)

And...er.. if you want MP lightsaber fights= play BGJ NF, not FF.
Only lighties or rookie-players go for lightsaber fights at BGJ FF, and it's not fun, because light gets beat down hard by dark at BGJ FF. (Absorb and heal don't stand a chance versus grip, throw, item hogging and a saberslash!) :D

being light at Oasis FF is a different story tho.... :)

DeathBoLT
02-14-2002, 08:13 PM
i disagree zodiac:
http://obskni.tripod.com/History/JSHOT039.jpg

logic was absorb/heal/neutral powers while i was protection/absorb(through experimentation, logic and i found this was a better combination than absorb/heal/neutral-absorb/heal/neutral and protection/absorb-protection/absorb teams vs teh darkies)

god-damnit.. tripod is ghey :(
the link is:lighty vs darkies (http://obskni.tripod.com/History/JSHOT039.jpg)

Zodiac
02-14-2002, 08:20 PM
yah but that's teams.. I was talking about 1v1 bgj ff. :)

but see emon: u can still hit eachother when ur running at full force_speed :D

DeathBoLT
02-14-2002, 08:29 PM
logicbomb was an awesome lighty in BGJ FF.. he's beaten several very good darkies including DSbr_ApOCaLyPsE(IRN_DeaconFrost) in a light vs dark bgj ff 1v1. :P

Zodiac
02-14-2002, 08:38 PM
Yes. everything has its exceptions. but most elite BGJ FF players were darkies. Just go ask around at WD and Dsbr.. MOST (90% or maybe even higher) of em are darkie at bgj ff. That's why I conclude that being dark at BGJ FF beats down being light. How else would u explain that most elite BGJ FF-ers were/are dark?

WD_ToRMeNt
02-14-2002, 08:41 PM
True, but look how many people were greats as a darkie in BGJ vs the number that were greats as a lighties. It's overwhelmingly dark. Honestly, being light in BGJ is like tieing your hands together.

I also didn't like lighties because to win they had to use the same type of laggy BS that the NFers use. I perfer a mental game of aim, timing, and multitasking over a game of lag tag.

Also, slow-mo kinda turns me away from SP. I kinda hope there is at least an option to make it like JK/JK2MP.

DeathBoLT
02-14-2002, 08:43 PM
im just saying light doesn't neccessarily get beat down by dark.. yes most people are darkies, but that doesn't neccessarily mean dark beats down light all the time which is what you're basically saying.

Zodiac
02-14-2002, 08:56 PM
Well.. it's only happened occasionaly that an elite darky lost to a lighty at bgj ff... so i think those losses were not "normal". Everybody loses sometimes.

When 2 players fight eachother at oasis, one only using the conc and the other one only using the rail detonator, and the one with the rail wins, then it doesn't mean the rail is a better weapon.
Everybody'd still know the conc'd own rail in 90% of the times.

Same with bgj ff and dark/light. Everybody'd still know the darky'd own 90% of the time. Sure a lighty can win sometimes, but if he's up against a darky who's at the same level and same condition and form, then the darky'd win.

WD_ToRMeNt
02-14-2002, 09:29 PM
Also I'd like to see a lighty try and take on a darky on a LAN where lag is much less a facter. Without lag, the lighty is MUCH more vulnerable to direct hits with destruction and saber hits (especialy when gripped). Without the ability to warp (and getting stopped by grip almost every second) the lighty has near zero offense and not so good defense.

Silent_One
02-14-2002, 10:09 PM
Well... that is a disadvantage...., but sometimes just a detail...;)

StormHammer
02-16-2002, 04:22 AM
Well, I have to say that I'm not overly impressed if Force Speed is going to slow everything else down in SP. Part of the fun in SP was running around like a bullet...and having to time things just right. I'm not a fan of bullet-time (especially in Max Payne, where you can change direction half-way through a dive :rolleyes: ).

I'll have to actually try it in JKII to see if it's effective, but I'll miss running around like a maniac. :(

TUS_Tomcat
02-16-2002, 05:23 AM
I'll say:

play first, talk second

We just gotta see how it will work, and even then, I'm sure someone will do a mod where you have the same force speed in singleplayer as in multi

Locke101
02-16-2002, 12:42 PM
I think that the force speed in JK was good. I mean if you went slower then the force speed they gave you. It wouldn't be like in the movies. Take The Phantom Meneace, when Obiwan and Quigon ran away from the droid dekas. Did they go slow?? NO! they flew down that corridor like there was no tomarrow!

Lord_FinnSon
02-16-2002, 01:58 PM
Take The Phantom Meneace, when Obiwan and Quigon ran away from the droid dekas. Did they go slow?? NO! they flew down that corridor like there was no tomarrow!
Well, we didn't see them running from their own point of view, but instead from Droidekas' POV. :rolleyes:

CaptainRAVE
02-16-2002, 02:02 PM
In pure bot matches without human players will force speed be you going fast or the slow down??

Lord_FinnSon
02-16-2002, 02:33 PM
Okey, I thought about this further. If Force speed was done like TPM and books define it(lets put multiplay aside for a while), then everything (except you) should slow down in 1st person view and speed up(Kyle should be motion blurred, so that he wouldn't look so goofy) in 3rd person view; technically of course you run as fast in both views. Raven's decision might have been right one though, because they can avoid many problems when seperating these two ways of showing it, so only thing I wish and if I understood correctly, Force speed will be only short burst this time unlike in JK/MotS where people were running comically around like Road Runners.