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Spaceball_One
02-14-2002, 02:37 PM
i was playing the new MEDAL OF HONOR and i really like how the enemy AI works in combat situations. they run and hide behind corners and quickly come out, shoot at you, then pull back behind the corner again... i was wondering if the stormtroopers will act similarly in OUTCAST. from all ive been reading about the new killer AI implemented into the game, i really hope so because i really think that the enemies in MEDAL OF HONOR are the perfect run-of-the-mill grunts... they're a bit challenging, especially when in groups, so its not all just "RUN AND GUN" all the time, you kind of have to play it safe. also, im wondering if the friendly AI that you fight alongside (LANDO, LUKE, JAN) will act the same way...

Justus
02-14-2002, 02:39 PM
From what I've read the AI is pretty sophisticated in Jedi Knight Outcast, but they said the didn't want to make them too smart... because after all, your average Stormtrooper usually isn't very smart to begin with, as we have seen in the films and various EU material out there.

Roger
02-14-2002, 02:41 PM
From what we can see in the screenshots I'm not convinced we will see MOHAA gameplay. Stormies are just standing around in groups, not hiding, seems like they're waiting to get shot...

I hope the screenshots are just staged and taken in an early beta version of the game at a point where the AI wasn't worked out yet.

We'll see...

CorranHornjr
02-14-2002, 03:03 PM
Does anyone else think it is crap that stormtroopers get laughed at and made to be so stupid? In A New Hope, the stormtroopers were awesome, and obi wan gives them complimants at there accuracy. We are made to fear them. Then in Empire, they are still pretty good but the end where leia, chewie, r2, and lando are running through cloud city, not one shot hits them! What accuracy. Did they just get dumber by the movie? Yes!!!! In Jedi they get takin by Ewoks!!!!! With sticks and rocks.

Someone else said it "Yes sir was just got done taking a wookie regiment down....AAAHHH EWOKS!!" NO! They made wookies be their slaves, but ewoks murder them. It just pisses me off cause they are supposed to be hardcore and Lucas made them retards in the Jedi and since then we are made to think that they are easy. I wish the stormtroopers would be awesome with great shots, because it would make the game more challenging. But who knows, maybe I am the only one that thinks that stormtroopers got screwed.

TUS_Tomcat
02-14-2002, 03:06 PM
I'm sure Episodes II and III wil restore your faith in them :)

But yeah they did get pretty screwed up, especially in Jedi...

Hell, i couldve lived with it (actually i can) if it werent for that comment by the emperor: "An entire legion of my BEST troops awaits them"

I was like, uhm, yeah and the ewoks?

i found the ewoks funny but the best troops thing was a bit dumb

Lord_FinnSon
02-14-2002, 03:09 PM
Stormtroopers might seem quite stupid when they try to kill you with bigger group, but they just feel themselves much more fearless that way. :rolleyes: Brett Tosti mentioned once again familiar example of their AI in recent XGR radio interview: they are gonna take cover or perhaps hide, when they see you having lightsaber. That's nothing new, but lets just think about situation where you have killed their officer and perhaps few team mates leaving only two stormies alive: they run away from you(maybe other hides and other calls for backup). The point is, you don't even know where they are going to hide and when you enter the next room, they might be behind some crate and start shooting immediately. I find that really interesting. :D

CaptainRAVE
02-14-2002, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Justus
From what I've read the AI is pretty sophisticated in Jedi Knight Outcast, but they said the didn't want to make them too smart... because after all, your average Stormtrooper usually isn't very smart to begin with, as we have seen in the films and various EU material out there.

Id say the AI in Outcast is the best out of any game, even with the limiting factors for the stormtroopers. Other enemies will be much more intelligent. In the PC Gamer Review I would have thought this was one aspect that booseted the score quite alot.

Obi
02-14-2002, 05:16 PM
<font color=cbcbff> Well, thrawn is always talking about how the stormtroopers were the best too. But in reality, Lucas has final say. He made them a bunch of idiots in white armor, and that's what they are. They are just a bunch of stupid imperial thugs with fancy suits. Perhaps since Obi-Wan has been on Tatooine for 20 years, and last he knew all of the Stormtroopers were clones of someone very apt at combat, he still believes them to be the precise death machines that crushed the jedi and converted the Old Republic into an Empire.

Of course, later, they begin training normal civilians to become stormtroopers, and they become somewhat less elite. Also, with the false sense of security they've had from not having anyone who can resist them, they may have relaxed in their training and discipline, thinking of the rebellion as nothing more than just that.

And because there simply wouldn't have been any tension in Lando, Leia, and Chewie running down an empty hall, totally devoid of opposition to the readily waiting Millenium Falcon. And it wouldn't have made much sense for the heros to get gunned down by a bunch of faceless troopers in the end of the film either. In Star Wars, the good guys win. And that means, like all films in which the good guys triumph, there are always stupid, not-so-cunning thugs that the bad guy mastermind sends after the heros.

I think Kenn Hoekstra said that they have "little regard for their own lives." Meaning they've programmed them not to hide, but to sacrifice themselves as cannon fodder in a futile attempt to stop Kyle. Until they realize that there is nothing they can do. Then they start to run. Since they are in apparently in the first level, they can't be that tough. I'm guessing they'll be about as low-level as enemies get in Jedi Outcast.

TUS_Tomcat
02-14-2002, 05:20 PM
cant wait to cut em up :)


BTW that tidbit about obi wan being on tatooine so long he still thinks the stormies are good is quite a nice theory, i like it

Pogwaffle
02-14-2002, 06:16 PM
You know the latest screenie of the thermal detenator(TD) blowing up with stormies flying in the air there is on trooper on the left that apears to be crouching for cover behind a bit in the wall.

Ive also read somewhere that if you toss a TD at a trooper they might even throw it back at you before it blows up. Nice.

MercenaryI{aos
02-14-2002, 06:47 PM
I doubt stormtroopers will act the same as soldiers in MoH:AA. It doesn't seem very stormtrooper-like.

BTW, will the aliens have a different AI from stormtroopers or will they be just better shots with more health? THey only mention stormtrooper AI and Jedi AI I do believe.

Ki-Adi-Mundi
02-14-2002, 06:59 PM
There are Gonks and Mouse Droids. They have a different AI i'd say. ;P

We also know from that huge spoiler that bobbybuttoks posted that there will be other kinds of troopers or something. Certainly Storm Troopers and Jedi won't be the only kind of enemy we run up against.

Thrawn
02-14-2002, 09:27 PM
At the height of the Empire, Stormtroopers ruled. Slowly, as the war went on, their high quality troops were killed off, and then replaced by green troops, with less training. This is similar to what happened to the Japanese during WWII. The longer it went on, the lower the quality of their troops.

Redwing
02-15-2002, 01:00 AM
Well:

The troopers in the Death Star and Bespin were quite good, considering they were shooting to miss!

As for Endor: The Emperor said a "legion" of his "best troops" were waiting there. Now, I'd say that the force waiting there wasn't exactly a "legion". Most likely the Emperor was exaggerating to impress on Luke the hopelessness of his situation. Plus the troops were way overconfident, had almost no equipment besides the basics, didn't bother with camoflauge, and were not very prepared for little forest creatures to swarm them lobbing heavy rocks at their heads.

As for the AI in Jedi Outcast, that's also realistic, considering that after the fall of the Empire, those stormies are going to be mostly completely green. Add that to the fact that their training emphasized ignoring whether they live or die, just accomplish the mission. Those who put their training together viewed them as infinitely expendable. And there you have the reasons why they'll act the way they do in Jedi Outcast.

Nute Gunray
02-15-2002, 01:48 AM
Stormtroopers could have been the best soldiers in the entire universe. The ones on Endor could have been the best of the best. But being good doesn't mean you are omniscient and think "Better watch out, some bears might come flying out of the woods throwing rocks!" That's like the US Army Rangers preparing to go take down some terrorists somewhere and they make sure they know what to do if infant penguins attempt to beat them with fish.

Spaceball_One
02-15-2002, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Obi
[BAlso, with the false sense of security they've had from not having anyone who can resist them, they may have relaxed in their training and discipline, thinking of the rebellion as nothing more than just that...[/B]

yeah, but you'd think that now since the EMPIRE is gone (not to mention the fact that there are a bunch of JEDIs running around the galaxy once again) they'd realize that THEY are the underdogs now... so if anything they should train and train like theres no tomorrow.

i just hope that they aren't bumbling idiots and that they can actually pose a threat to KATARN during OUTCAST because i really agree with CORRANHORNJR when he went into that whole schpeel about STORMTROOPERS getting jakked throughout the movies... i tell ya, no respect, no respect at all.

Justus
02-15-2002, 12:57 PM
Well you have to remember, the hero's aren't supposed to die it was never written in the script. Droids seem to be the only thing that troopers are really good at hitting, and Leia wasn't really paying attention when she got shot on Endor.

Sithcloak
02-15-2002, 01:20 PM
If they act like stormtroopers then i will be happy. At least the ones on the Death Star. And i was wondering, in ANH throughout the movie when the laser fire increases a slight fog starts to appear but dissipears after a while. Do you think they will have that in JK2? It would be more movie like, and make escapes more easy and epic, but it would be hard to have this in multiplayer, and this only takes place in narrow corridors.

Maybe?

Sithcloak

txa1265
02-15-2002, 01:22 PM
I think that the possibilities of multi-level AI are definitely there ... and will be exploited. MoH:AA shows it ... but these are crack snipers you are going against - there are many cases where you still see a cluster of troops come streaming into your fire ... same with RtCW. I've even had to 'poke' a couple times in RtCW to wake up the troops ...

ps2maddenman
02-15-2002, 01:22 PM
In a few years the AI scripts will probably be so good that they will have to take some AI away to make stormtroopers misfiring dominos like in the movies.


"in ANH throughout the movie when the laser fire increases a slight fog starts to appear but dissipears after a while. Do you think they will have that in JK2? "


I've never noticed that, darn you for making me watch such a terrible movie again tonight. :D

Naphtali
02-15-2002, 11:01 PM
The AI is yet to be seen, played, so far it looks good. Its foolish to assume from screenshots, but yes Im sure, that in some levels that stormtroopers will actually have things to do and not just posted, but since there are obviously imperial stations, and they are alearted to your presence then of course theyll be stationed for security.
Movies, well with Endor if you remember it was a very long fight, secondly I think that the storm troopers moved up in rank to officers and into being the elite imperial guard. The different troops some of the lesser ones seemed better, like the biker troops on endor just 3 of them but they were difficult and didn't just go down if you guys remember. Also the snow troops were also very good.

Thrawn
02-15-2002, 11:23 PM
You'd be good in the snow too if you had twenty or so 50 foot AT-ATs backing you up!

Cyclone
02-15-2002, 11:54 PM
Well, from the official page, I did see a Green SwampTrooper. So I know we will be up against them at some time in the game.

Don't forget the context of this game. They are not in a full scale battle like MOH:AA. You are likely just infiltrating a Imperial base. So they likely will just be standing around in large numbers instead of taking defensive positions. That makes sense to me.

PS: Nute, love the Bat Boy avatar.

Cyclone